Double Standard

[Somsrisonphimai]

They aren't considered to be superior to Thais.

However, they are a far better option for women who aren't educated and have children from past relationships, as they offer some kind of recognition to people who without them would spend a lifetime at the very bottom of the Thai social ladder.

off the topic and not to be ridiculed, why are farangs attracted to these type of girls? I have not been able to figure it out.

Actually, Sam is exactly on-topic. It's clear you have this cause-and-effect thing all confused.

The Thai guys in your OP are most likely having relationships with young, wholesome, "quality" Thai girls who probably never even had a boyfriend. Of course the parents will be more protective and require the guys to "make an honest woman" of said girls.

On the other hand, the farangs in your OP are most likely having relationships with Thai women who are older, and/or previously married, and/or single mothers, and/or having financial difficulties, and/or come from a dysfunctional family. In this instance, the parents are not going to make a huge deal about what their daughter's doing with the farang...or a Thai for that matter. They're just happy that SOMEONE is willing to take responsibility for her and help her out.

Can't you see that you're looking at the wrong variables and coming to wrong conclusions? It's really the girl's situation that determines the parents' attitudes, not whether the guy is Thai or farang.

Berkshire, off the topic meaning my reply. I was off the topic.

You may be right, but I experienced with my family as I mentioned before about my brother and my cousin. They both are young couples. Before getting married, my brother and his girlfriend were living together. They both educated and have a good job. Her parents were pressuing her and my brother to get married. On the other hand, my cousin is pregnant with a farang man. I did not hear a word from my aunt and uncle asking my cousin about getting married. So I thought there is a double standard.

[tezzainoz]

"The parents seemed to look the other way when their daughter is having children with foreigner/farang without marriage, however, if the father were to be Thai, the parents would pressure the couple in to making some sort of commitment i.e. getting married. Why is that?"

In my experience, having their daughter date a farang is considered to be lucky for all the reasons mentioned in this thread already (prospect of having good looking luk krueng "superstars" in the village, financial security...).

As often in Thailand everything is about face: for lower classes, the daughter dating a farang is de facto a major face enhancing thing and so there is less urgency.

And unlike Thai men, farangs don't have a reputation for running off as soon as the word "responsibility" is on the cards - people know foreigners (especially older ones) often don't mind if a woman has children already, often taking care of them and even adopting them/sending them to study abroad in some cases.

All these reasons combined lead to a more flexible approach.

So to sum it all up, when choosing a mate, farangs are more superior than Thais?

They aren't considered to be superior to Thais.

However, they are a far better option for women who aren't educated and have children from past relationships, as they offer some kind of recognition to people who without them would spend a lifetime at the very bottom of the Thai social ladder.

off the topic and not to be ridiculed, why are farangs attracted to these type of girls? I have not been able to figure it out.

They know how to treat a man

something most western women have forgotten

[wym]

They know how to treat a man

Like the dirty little boys we are - harder, harder!

[Beetlejuice]

This thread is a load of tosh.

I have known and know many Thai couples with children who are not officially married. The same now applies the world over as living together no longer has the taboos it used to have and is not so frowned upon as was in the past.

Many of the under 50s farangs staying in Thailand with Thai female partners are only officially married for the purposes of obtaining a married to a Thai spouse visa so they can live in Thailand, otherwise I doubt if they would bother and I guess the farangs who do not marry their Thai partners and mother`s of their children are mostly fly by nights, never staying in Thailand for long periods at a time and perhaps even have wives and children in their own countries.

This is fact, as I have known many farang men who have bluffed their ways into relationships with Thai women and then became occasional boyfriends mostly sending some money over each month for the woman and a child they had with other that ensures a bed partner each time these men visit Thailand.

So in fact the double standards is actually on the part of the farangs that the Thai partner believes is honest and sincere and really cares about them.

[Berkshire]

They aren't considered to be superior to Thais.

However, they are a far better option for women who aren't educated and have children from past relationships, as they offer some kind of recognition to people who without them would spend a lifetime at the very bottom of the Thai social ladder.

off the topic and not to be ridiculed, why are farangs attracted to these type of girls? I have not been able to figure it out.

Actually, Sam is exactly on-topic. It's clear you have this cause-and-effect thing all confused.

The Thai guys in your OP are most likely having relationships with young, wholesome, "quality" Thai girls who probably never even had a boyfriend. Of course the parents will be more protective and require the guys to "make an honest woman" of said girls.

On the other hand, the farangs in your OP are most likely having relationships with Thai women who are older, and/or previously married, and/or single mothers, and/or having financial difficulties, and/or come from a dysfunctional family. In this instance, the parents are not going to make a huge deal about what their daughter's doing with the farang...or a Thai for that matter. They're just happy that SOMEONE is willing to take responsibility for her and help her out.

Can't you see that you're looking at the wrong variables and coming to wrong conclusions? It's really the girl's situation that determines the parents' attitudes, not whether the guy is Thai or farang.

Berkshire, off the topic meaning my reply. I was off the topic.

You may be right, but I experienced with my family as I mentioned before about my brother and my cousin. They both are young couples. Before getting married, my brother and his girlfriend were living together. They both educated and have a good job. Her parents were pressuing her and my brother to get married. On the other hand, my cousin is pregnant with a farang man. I did not hear a word from my aunt and uncle asking my cousin about getting married. So I thought there is a double standard.

Well that's interesting. Have you ever asked your aunt and uncle why? Perhaps they've had, and you just don't know about it. Or they're embarrassed to even talk about it. Regardless, this sounds like an isolated incident and certainly not indicative of a society-wide "double standard"....wouldn't you say? Because I keep hearing the opposite. Parents of Thai women who were previously married with kids, pressuring their daughter to get married to the farang and still requiring sin sod, etc., etc.

[wym]

You may be right, but I experienced with my family as I mentioned before about my brother and my cousin. They both are young couples. Before getting married, my brother and his girlfriend were living together. They both educated and have a good job. Her parents were pressuing her and my brother to get married. On the other hand, my cousin is pregnant with a farang man. I did not hear a word from my aunt and uncle asking my cousin about getting married. So I thought there is a double standard.

I don't think many replies said there wasn't, but you got a lot of explanations, mostly all along the same lines.

Didn't the reasons given make sense to you?

[Somsrisonphimai]

So the final point made re Yingluck not bothering with marriage proves your point about double standards ? How does that logic work ?

I was addressing the poster that talked about silly Thais putting more importance on the religious ceremony than the legal registration.

Edit - the same comment being addressed in the previous post ^^

I was pointing out that Farang think that legal marriage is what defines "a real marriage", leftovers from black and white Christian ideas about "living in sin".

For Thais, the religious ceremony is what counts, and in fact just sleeping together in conservative circles means you're in effect married already.

Getting married legally doesn't make your marriage more socially respectable here.

That's all. Not actually relevant to the OP

WYM, you are very knowledgeable about Thai culture. I almost feel like you are Thai, are you? Yeah for Thais, having a religion marriage ceremony is more importance than having a piece of paper saying you are legally married.

[Tommo]

Your asking us farang about thai parents. Sorry, I never had thai parents however I do know this, I was not allowed to bang my wife until we were married, not with her parents knowledge anyway so it was sneaking around for us as we were getting married anyway Not all parents allow the daughters to bed farang, I guess it would depend on the parents and their lack of morals that probably rub off on the children, don't you know any girls whose parents don't allow it,lol. Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

I like the adjective "Bang".

I think you'll find it would be a verb here.

[Ruin]

Variable 1. Money. Wealthier the better whoever they are.

Variable 2. Social standing.

Variable 3. Suitability to the family face. May be determined by nationality.

[wym]

This thread is a load of tosh.

I have known and know many Thai couples with children who are not officially married. The same now applies the world over as living together no longer has the taboos it used to have and is not so frowned upon as was in the past.

Many of the under 50s farangs staying in Thailand with Thai female partners are only officially married for the purposes of obtaining a married to a Thai spouse visa so they can live in Thailand, otherwise I doubt if they would bother and I guess the farangs who do not marry their Thai partners and mother`s of their children are mostly fly by nights, never staying in Thailand for long periods at a time and perhaps even have wives and children in their own countries.

This is fact, as I have known many farang men who have bluffed their ways into relationships with Thai women and then became occasional boyfriends mostly sending some money over each month for the woman and a child they had with other that ensures a bed partner each time these men visit Thailand.

So in fact the double standards is actually on the part of the farangs that the Thai partner believes is honest and sincere and really cares about them.

I didn't take it that the OP meant legal marriage.

I think the phenomenon is true, allowing village ceremony to be sufficient as "marriage".

In my case, most of my SOs acquired this way weren't allowed to sleep with me at all until that took place, so the pressure wasn't from the family but from my own gonads. . .

[thhMan]

Where did the OP get this information...?

How does the OP know that parents will pressure a couple to get married?

Is he/she surrounded by Thais and Farangs in different stages of relationships/marriage?

[wade72]

I'm with you here, I don't understand it at all.

I am always happy to help someone out, but taking on responsibility for someone else's family is a little to much for me.

I don't understand why people put themselves in the situation in the first place, but hey maybe they are better men then me willing to take care of a family in a way I would only do for my own.

Those better people, must include your wife's family, as according to your earlier post , they took care of you when you had business problems.

You may be right and yes they did help out considerably which I will always be grateful for, they were also paid back in full as soon as the cash flow situation was sorted out. That however wasn't my point.

Helping out in times of difficulty is what families do and the favor mentioned above has been reciprocated with other members of the family when it was needed and will be unconditionally if needed int eh future.

What I don't understand is why someone would marry a person,

20+ years their junior,

with a family of their own,

no common language,

no common back ground,

basically nothing in common at all.

Then wonder why they have the problems that I hear people regularly complaining about it?

Marriage is hard enough with someone you can relate to and communicate with, without adding all the extra complications listed above.

If something happened to my marriage and in the future I was considering a new wife, I can pretty much guarantee there would be no more then about a 5 year age gap between us, we would speak a common language fluently, we would have many things in common, we would come from similar educational and economical backgrounds.

It seriously improves the odds of things working out and reduces the potential problems that can arise. Also the big difference being with someone from a similar educational and economic background is neither party is in a position of power over the other. I want a partner that is my equal whom can challenge me and call BS when required.

[wym]

Your definition of and goals for "marriage" are different from many here.

If you were elderly and not too attractive, but were yourself only attracted to barely-legal age stunners, and had plenty of money, you'd probably (have to) approach things differently.

It only lasts as long as it lasts, and then you can both move on to the next greener grass, no problem.

Of course that means we have to take care of business because the inlaws probably can't help out much beyond dropping off the occasional bag of unprocessed rice.

[wym]

Where did the OP get this information...?

How does the OP know that parents will pressure a couple to get married?

Is he/she surrounded by Thais and Farangs in different stages of relationships/marriage?

In the many villages I am intimate with, a man even touching a yet-unspoiled marriage-eligible local young lass will be subject to the village elders/puyaibaan/police forcing the boy's family to pay a fine proportional to how far he got with her.

If all the way, the full sin sot is due. Usually he's given the option of marrying her. Note these negotiations take place with the parents, but sometimes they may even ask the girl what she thinks.

Including actual rape instances.

Just feeling her up a bit would usually lead to a fine of 20-40% of the sin sot.

A kiss and cuddle maybe 10%.

[Somsrisonphimai]

Where did the OP get this information...?

How does the OP know that parents will pressure a couple to get married?

Is he/she surrounded by Thais and Farangs in different stages of relationships/marriage?

In the many villages I am intimate with, a man even touching a yet-unspoiled marriage-eligible local young lass will be subject to the village elders/puyaibaan/police forcing the boy's family to pay a fine proportional to how far he got with her.

If all the way, the full sin sot is due. Usually he's given the option of marrying her. Note these negotiations take place with the parents, but sometimes they may even ask the girl what she thinks.

Including actual rape instances.

Just feeling her up a bit would usually lead to a fine of 20-40% of the sin sot.

A kiss and cuddle maybe 10%.

So reverse that and think if the man were farang, what do you think would happen?

[wade72]

Your definition of and goals for "marriage" are different from many here.

If you were elderly and not too attractive, but were yourself only attracted to barely-legal age stunners, and had plenty of money, you'd probably (have to) approach things differently.

It only lasts as long as it lasts, and then you can both move on to the next greener grass, no problem.

Of course that means we have to take care of business because the inlaws probably can't help out much beyond dropping off the occasional bag of unprocessed rice.

If thats what makes someone happy and they can achieve their goals then good for them. I'm not here to judge that my way is better. I personally don't see the satisfaction in it, but thats my belief system and back ground effecting my outlook on life.

What I do have a problem with though is the people I regularly hear just trashing the local women about how terrible they are. I generally am not that popular when I confront them about it with some of the following.

Your 40 years older and 150 pounds heavier then her, you met her in a bar, you can't communicate with each other. Do you honestly believe she is with you because you are handsome and have a big heart? You don't think she is more attracted to the well built Thai gentleman serving drinks who she has a similar back ground with and can relate to? Oh btw, you just told me about all your bargirl "conquests", so you frequent prostitutes, how good of a catch does that make you?

Basically if it is a financial transaction then accept that it is business and as such your service provider will attempt to get the best deal for themselves.

As I said, not a very popular attitude locally... but when the piss needs to be taken, the piss needs to be taken.

[wileycoyote]

Not only double standard.

I believe also generational ,not as acute as it used to be on the past.

My take is for for Thai people ,it depends on the longevity of the relationship and if the kids have been brought up correctly

[wileycoyote]

My observation it is not only double stangard but generational.

I believe that it is not as acute as in the past ,and more tolerated by younger Thai people.

However,for both Thai age groups,the longevity of the marriage and the way of bringing up children is more important.

[kennypowers]

Perhaps because they think/know a farang father is more likely to take responsibility for his spawn?

The legal marriage process isn't relevant in Thailand wrt child support anyway, and in many circles isn't relevant socially, once you have kids together you're de-facto considered married anyway.

And the kind of "pressure" a family can try to assert on a member of their own community is not going to work with a foreigner, in fact likely to backfire and cause him to run for the hills.

They trust that their daughter will be able to use her charms and wiles to persuade him to do the right thing.

Not quite sure where you've got that from. Having kids out of wedlock is a huge no-no for the majority of families. Having kids does not make you de-facto married and reflects (culturally) badly on the woman in question.

Sadly the gossip is usually and unfairly focussed on the lady: "Did they sign at the Amphur or just have a ceremony?" "Why won't he marry her; what's wrong with her?" "Are they living together?"

I was not supposed to live with my partner or do the thing before marriage. Of course, like most others, we did, secretly. Most of these old traditions are just keeping up appearances (face).

[wym]

If thats what makes someone happy and they can achieve their goals then good for them. I'm not here to judge that my way is better. I personally don't see the satisfaction in it, but thats my belief system and back ground effecting my outlook on life.

What I do have a problem with though is the people I regularly hear just trashing the local women about how terrible they are. I generally am not that popular when I confront them about it with some of the following.

Your 40 years older and 150 pounds heavier then her, you met her in a bar, you can't communicate with each other.

Yes, completely agree, no problem, communications is highly overrated.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5mWQFGF7w8#t=22s

Do you honestly believe she is with you because you are handsome and have a big heart? You don't think she is more attracted to the well built Thai gentleman serving drinks who she has a similar back ground with and can relate to?

Of course not, and if she's so inclined she's welcome to dally with him as long as it doesn't interfere with her obligations to me. Since she's already agreed that I have the same freedom, only fair.

Oh btw, you just told me about all your bargirl "conquests", so you frequent prostitutes, how good of a catch does that make you?

Actually it's been well over a dozen years since I took a bar girl. Yes transactional, but with girls that may have ended up in that profession but I got to them before they had that opportunity.

Don't know about "catch" but I try to make sure I give as much or more value to the partner, strive to help them develop their skills knowledge and confidence so when it's time for them to move on they're much more empowered to create a good life for themselves than they were when I got them.

Basically if it is a financial transaction then accept that it is business and as such your service provider will attempt to get the best deal for themselves.

Absolutely, and more power to them - we usually keep in touch down the road, and I often become friends with their new SO, who more often than not expresses profound gratitude for my laying the groundwork for them and saving their teerak from ending up in the explicit sex industry.

[TheNativeSon]

Your asking us farang about thai parents. Sorry, I never had thai parents however I do know this, I was not allowed to bang my wife until we were married, not with her parents knowledge anyway so it was sneaking around for us as we were getting married anyway Not all parents allow the daughters to bed farang, I guess it would depend on the parents and their lack of morals that probably rub off on the children, don't you know any girls whose parents don't allow it,lol. Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[wym]

Perhaps because they think/know a farang father is more likely to take responsibility for his spawn?

The legal marriage process isn't relevant in Thailand wrt child support anyway, and in many circles isn't relevant socially, once you have kids together you're de-facto considered married anyway.

And the kind of "pressure" a family can try to assert on a member of their own community is not going to work with a foreigner, in fact likely to backfire and cause him to run for the hills.

They trust that their daughter will be able to use her charms and wiles to persuade him to do the right thing.

Not quite sure where you've got that from. Having kids out of wedlock is a huge no-no for the majority of families. Having kids does not make you de-facto married and reflects (culturally) badly on the woman in question.

Sadly the gossip is usually and unfairly focussed on the lady: "Did they sign at the Amphur or just have a ceremony?" "Why won't he marry her; what's wrong with her?" "Are they living together?"

I was not supposed to live with my partner or do the thing before marriage. Of course, like most others, we did, secretly. Most of these old traditions are just keeping up appearances (face).

Of course it's "a huge no-no" but it happens out in the farming villages, very very commonly, I'd say the average village I'm familiar with has at least 15% households with one unplanned teenage pregnancy, often as young as 13-14.

When the boy sticks around and takes responsibility, they are indeed married in the eyes of the community, even if they're living together and no baby - and I'm sticking to my guns that NO ONE there gives a toss about the legal registration, that's a figment of your western-conditioned imagination - or you're familiar with a subculture I'm not.

It's the marriage ceremony with the monks and sin sot that counts, makes it official and socially acceptable.

Now when the boy runs away doesn't accept responsibility, his family usually has to pay the sin sot but the girl is now untouchable in the marriage market.

Now here comes a farang willing to marry her, maybe even take responsibility for the Thai boy's spawn.

And the OP wonders why the family's happy, not going to take a chance by putting hasty pressure on him as they did the Thai boy???

[wym]

Where did the OP get this information...?

How does the OP know that parents will pressure a couple to get married?

Is he/she surrounded by Thais and Farangs in different stages of relationships/marriage?

In the many villages I am intimate with, a man even touching a yet-unspoiled marriage-eligible local young lass will be subject to the village elders/puyaibaan/police forcing the boy's family to pay a fine proportional to how far he got with her.

If all the way, the full sin sot is due. Usually he's given the option of marrying her. Note these negotiations take place with the parents, but sometimes they may even ask the girl what she thinks.

Including actual rape instances.

Just feeling her up a bit would usually lead to a fine of 20-40% of the sin sot.

A kiss and cuddle maybe 10%.

So reverse that and think if the man were farang, what do you think would happen?

Well when it's an as-yet-unspoiled marriage-eligible girl, there's no context where this would have been allowed to happen, a farang prowling around causes all these young ones to get locked up, while the old ladies and single mothers flock to him like bees to honey.

The only way he's getting near the higher-value ones is to court her properly, working through her family, going on chaperoned walks and group dates, paying the sin sot and tying the knots before getting to do the deed.

If you did actually rape such a girl, even if in theory consensual you can bet your bottom dollar you'd have to pay the price, probably a lot more than the Thai boy.

In fact very likely the puyaibaan and/or police connected to the betrayed family would take advantage of the situation and blackmail you threatening prosecution under the never-otherwise-enforced age of consent laws created to satisfy our embassies.

Obviously upcountry girls 18+ are already married, most with kids, but if you did happen to find a single eligible one and somehow got her off in the woods, it would be very very difficult to extricate yourself without having to pay the penalty.

Note that pressure to marry isn't really the issue, it's paying the financial penalty of the sin sot that's important for saving the family face. But if you were willing to take her on once you'd spoiled her that would most likely be fine with all concerned. The girls wishes in the matter are usually irrelevant.

Not that far off from a traditional Muslim attitude is it?

[wym]

So the final point made re Yingluck not bothering with marriage proves your point about double standards ? How does that logic work ?

I was addressing the poster that talked about silly Thais putting more importance on the religious ceremony than the legal registration.

Edit - the same comment being addressed in the previous post ^^

I was pointing out that Farang think that legal marriage is what defines "a real marriage", leftovers from black and white Christian ideas about "living in sin".

For Thais, the religious ceremony is what counts, and in fact just sleeping together in conservative circles means you're in effect married already.

Getting married legally doesn't make your marriage more socially respectable here.

That's all. Not actually relevant to the OP

WYM, you are very knowledgeable about Thai culture. I almost feel like you are Thai, are you? Yeah for Thais, having a religion marriage ceremony is more importance than having a piece of paper saying you are legally married.

Well if that's sincerely meant, thank you I'm flattered.

No but in my fifteen years here I've very much "gone native", hardly have any interaction with non-Thais outside of a couple of jobs that had a few farang around, all my friends and family are Thai, most of the time spent living Thai style on very little money, worked and lived in Thai-only situations.

Almost all my SOs in the past twelve years haven't had a word of English when I met them.

And I've always been very open and curious about Thai culture, so since I don't "put on airs" at all - don't care about maintaining my face - my Thai friends relatives and acquaintances have been pretty open about what really goes on as opposed to the proper public face usually shown to an outsider.

And of course every TG with any experience scamming farang that meets me expresses shock and horror about how much I know and gets far away from me ASAP, no mia farang ever let me talk to their BF/husbands. . .

[ChiangraiTony]

I believe that they like the foreigner in their family. It somehow makes a difference in their eyes and maybe the perception of their status. My girlfriends mother and family love showing off my little baby girl. Somehow they feel higher in status. They never, never question anything I do. It seems I can do no wrong in their eyes because now they have a Falang baby and father. At least that's my situation here in the LOS.

[mrfaroukh]

As I heard and read some places the actual culture of Thai people is to have sex when they married, they don't even come with bikini to beach etc. But I guess the financial situation has changed everything. I don't think the real Thailand is the one we see in Pattaya or some parts in other cities. There are still many Thai people who respect their cultures.

Most of Thai people I spoken with and usually have kids with a Thai person keep on saying they don't like Thai men as they don't take any responsibility and leave them alone with their children. Now is this a facto or just Bull.......I have no idea.

If you are reach and have a Thai wife or girlfriend I am sure they gladly show you off to everyone.

What you mentioned here seem as a kind racist point of view. You are actually saying they look down on us because we are foreigners. I am sure you know that is not really true. Of course in any country there are some who always hate people from other part of the world. Unfortunately in our country this feeling is much more obvious.

Top 10 Most racist countries.

http://listdose.com/top-10-most-racist-countries-in-the-world-2/

http://www.theroot.com/articles/culture/2013/05/the_worlds_most_and_least_racist_countries.html

I don't find Thailand among any of them.

[mrfaroukh]

I think you are completely wrong. What you saying here that Thai people are racist. In all countries there are some people who may not like others from different cast, country, culture, religion etc.

I noticed in Thailand that if there is any such thing is between Thai people, that is, who is richer, whiter, etc but I never felt anything against myself. Of course if you have problem with one Thai person you have problem with everybody that is how they support themselves. Be polite with them and never anything bad

happen to you unless he/she is a criminal.

Here is the list of top 10 most racist countries in the world and Thailand is not among them.

http://listdose.com/top-10-most-racist-countries-in-the-world-2/

[Nemesis7]

Depends. I bet more or less each family is unique and is different from one to another. Based on their educational level, income level, surroundings..l

[chubbychops]

So, the question is do Thais look down on Thai girls bedding Falang? Well, if you are a man who is older than the father of the girl you are sleeping with, WHAT do you think? They call you "tao hua nguu", snigger, point their fingers at you behind your back! Your Thai "wife" who is 30 years your junior doesn't want to go out with you anywhere together...hmmmm wonder why? At get togethers your "wife" cannot partake in any conversation except to say "I like strawberrrrieeeee" and stares into the distance whilst conversations flow around her. Now, in defence of the Thai 'wife' our UK friend who dates girls 30 years his junior told me that in the UK he never talked with western women, just fought with them, at least the Thai juicy meat stays quiet and picks out his fish bones for him....and he's happy as hell.

Guess I'm getting carried away. To answer your question do Thais look down on Thai girls bedding falangs....."YOU BET YOUR SWEET PAD THAI THEY DO".

[HerbalEd]

Do you really not know the answer? Not even a clue?