Poverty Amongst Farangs in Chiang Mai

[F4UCorsair]

I'm not there yet, but have lived in several Asian countries, and worked in a few others. I can pay the going price, tip whatever I choose, but what pi$$es me off is some sellers expect that they don't need to give change.

Sure, B20 isn't much, and I'm more than happy to tip, but I don't like a seller making the assumption that he just keeps the change.

Equally, I don't like the 'no change' stunt. I make a point of having exact money for whatever I buy, and then it is my choice whether I tip or not. I hand over notes that are greater than the amount asked, and if he pulls the 'no change' stunt, I give him correct weight and no tip. Easy.

As for mental illness if one doesn't want to pay too much??? I guess there is solid evidence to back up that clinical assessment??

[thhMan]

All I can hear is that as westerners, we should appreciate those people who buy votes, have a poor education and watch senseless TV in their free time, by supporting their deadbeat wages with tips.

If a Thai is complacent enough to not try that little bit harder, then I will not tip.

I cant remember how many times my order has been screwed up, just because they relied on their brain power to memorize an order. Heck, even at McDonalds they still get it wrong.

Do I tip... no...

My missus does...

[kennypowers]

Re all the posts about the Chinese. How do you think they got rich? There are many jokes among Thais regarding how tight Thai-Chinese are. But then who are the people holding all the wealth?

Personally, I don't think there's any shame in being poor. A person shouldn't be judged on whether he takes a Baht bus or drives a Ferrari. It is certainly no measure of how accomplished a human you are.

There are also plenty of well-off people who live in lovely houses and drive lovely cars, yet don't tip a soul and are very stingy with others. Then there's those that barely manage to save a pound their entire lives, but would happy give their last penny to someone in need. I know who I'd rather be friends with.

[HerbalEd]

Many people are just plain cheap, but they justify it with things like "it's the principle" or "I'm on a strict budget" or some sort of rambling, rationalizing philosophy.

[F4UCorsair]

Re all the posts about the Chinese. How do you think they got rich? There are many jokes among Thais regarding how tight Thai-Chinese are. But then who are the people holding all the wealth?

Personally, I don't think there's any shame in being poor. A person shouldn't be judged on whether he takes a Baht bus or drives a Ferrari. It is certainly no measure of how accomplished a human you are.

There are also plenty of well-off people who live in lovely houses and drive lovely cars, yet don't tip a soul and are very stingy with others. Then there's those that barely manage to save a pound their entire lives, but would happy give their last penny to someone in need. I know who I'd rather be friends with.

The Ferrari driver?

[cobra]

…. or tight as a gnats chuff? ….

Yes, this is usually the case, followed by the unrelenting refrain,

,,, it's not the money, it's the principle, ...

[ehw200]

as far as buying a car or scooter...have you seen the driving habits in this country

over 400 dead and a couplle of thousand injured in seven days during new Years

In Pattaya I initially thought the ramp at the end of the sidewalks was for wheelchair access....silly me,,,I know

know they are so motorcycles can drive for blocks on the sidewalk (ever been hit with a Mirror)

I also understand if there is an accident it is the Falangs fault as if he wasn;t there it would not have happened

no I am probably not buying a vehicle here

Tipping

I must be getting old as I remember what a tip is

it was a way of saying thank you or showing appreciation for good service,,food etc

the meaning of the tip has dissapeared and now is considered obligatory in many places

which is why I resent the tip being automatically added to my bill and taking the choice away from me

I usually tip 10 to 20 percent depending on the quality of the service etc

if 10 percent is added to my bill that is all they are going to get unless something exceptional happened

and I usually do NOT return to these places of business as they have taken an option away from me of not tipping if the food,,service is horrendous

Edited January 20, 2014 by ehw200

[belg]

maybe they had money when they just came here and got fleeced over & over by the working girls ?

[little mary sunshine]

Being from the States, I now get SS and two pensions. I live very well. But to each his own. I

busted my butt for 38 years working 6 days a week in the Medical Field, some time 12 hours per

day. Now, I can spend what I want, dine where I choose to and live in a very nice condo.

My neighbor probably has more than I do on a monthly basis and is cheap he would squeeze a

nickle until the buffalo shits......Never eats out, nasty clothes, 10 y/o motorbike and if the electric

bill goes over 600B he bitches for a week. I stopped socializing with him when he complained

for three days he lost 25B playing cards with us, and He told me I spend to much on filtered water

you should drink the Pattaya water, just boil it........I can't understand people that think they can

"take it with them".... You should enjoy, not blow all you bucks, but at this age, I am thankful I can

to to a nice restaurant and leave a 15% tip without thinking about it.

How can you be poverty striken in Thailand...My O-A Visa required proof of 65KB/month...????

[NeverSure]

How did a thread titled "Poverty Amongst Farangs in Chiang Mai" turn into a thread about tipping?

[Chicog]

Basically you've got the tightarses, the skint or the downright rude.

They'll all come up with some excuse or the other, but what they do is ultimately their business and I don't see why they should need to defend themselves.

If they want spit in their soup, that's their problem.

[FiftyTwo]

Basically you've got the tightarses, the skint or the downright rude.

They'll all come up with some excuse or the other, but what they do is ultimately their business and I don't see why they should need to defend themselves.

If they want spit in their soup, that's their problem.

Most people tip after they have eaten.

Are you suggesting the serving staff are psychic?

[thhMan]

How did a thread titled "Poverty Amongst Farangs in Chiang Mai" turn into a thread about tipping?

Because the randy little buggers keep tipping their 1 hour GF's....

[eyecatcher]

for all those bragging how cheap they are, the Thais will say as soon as you walk out of their establishment - "falang ki nok". literally, bird shit falangs.

This is certainly true for the massage business. A massage girl will smile and graciously wai a twenty-baht tipper. The guy leaves feeling his generosity has prevented her starvation for another day. But after he's out the door, her true feelings, expressed in Thai to her associates, come out.

I personally couldn't care less what restaurant staff say about the lack of a tip, often they form that opinion long before when I berate them for incompetence, late delivery of food, food missing, rice delivered after 5 seconds then I ask them to reheat when the main arrives....no tip...too right.

The other night I waited for 2bt change....and finally had to go and ask for it.....2bt towards a dvd player!

And yes the massage girls, the ones who complain about tips are actually what I call the second division girls, not as skilled,not as disciplined in all round customers care...ofter jealous of the tips by the premier girls.

New girls often find if they don't get into the premier league after 5 jobs they don't come back and find themselves working for dirty money in the cheap places.

As a customers I probably am kee nok...mak mak

[NoshowJones]

There are many farangs living and surviving just on their pension. And we know pensions are rather meagre so they have to make it last. Anyway it's a better life living in Thailand than in their home country on the pension they're receiving.

Of course there are those whose nature is miserly. So to each his own.

and don't forget these UK pensioners who do not get their annual pension increases. Yes, you read that right, there are many pensioners who came here maybe 12 or 15 years ago and still have to live on what the UK pension was then, their money being stolen, that is not a figure of speech, I mean exactly that. STOLEN by a thieving UK Government.

[Donnie Brasco]

As i said earlier, tipping is the business of whoever is doing the tipping but all these claims of tipping by Thai's seems odd to me as the majority don't, and will tell you not to as well. Some very well heeled Thai's live around our area and they never leave a Baht on the table. I do, but only the 20 Baht my wife allows me to and she thinks that's over the top !

Most Thais, and by "most" I refer to a very high percentage of the Thai population who are in a position to tip, do not tip.

Giving anything that could be interpreted as a leg up to a Thai person who is working for you is anathema to what Thai social interaction is all about.

Just look around the restaurant next time you're out.

[mancub]

The median household income in CM is probably less than 25K, so I see no reason to berate farang, who are living alone for 20K. I've met some very nice uni students on the yellow taxis, bright, beautiful, and upwardly mobile....to refer to them as "poor people" means you should look in the mirror. Driving is a liability, expensive, and it's a pain in the arse to park. Drinking and driving not very smart, either. I've been doing about 50/50 time between CNX and the US for years. When I am in the States, what I miss are great cheap thai places and street food; not expensive imitation western food. The girls I miss are the ones, who like me for being a nice farang; not for being an ATM. If I really wanted to drop a bundle to get respect; I would just go to Las Vegas....just not into the fakeyness.

I'm coming in a few weeks to CM. I will buy a condo for cash (probably a cheap one), have an annuity that gives me health cover, and will live off a 100 usd per week. I really don't plan on losing much sleep about finances.

No "fakeyness" in Vegas then..! .Only Fear, Loathing and .....err.......Respect !

[mesquite]

for all those bragging how cheap they are, the Thais will say as soon as you walk out of their establishment - "falang ki nok". literally, bird shit falangs.

This is certainly true for the massage business. A massage girl will smile and graciously wai a twenty-baht tipper. The guy leaves feeling his generosity has prevented her starvation for another day. But after he's out the door, her true feelings, expressed in Thai to her associates, come out.

I personally couldn't care less what restaurant staff say about the lack of a tip, often they form that opinion long before when I berate them for incompetence, late delivery of food, food missing, rice delivered after 5 seconds then I ask them to reheat when the main arrives....no tip...too right.

The other night I waited for 2bt change....and finally had to go and ask for it.....2bt towards a dvd player!

And yes the massage girls, the ones who complain about tips are actually what I call the second division girls, not as skilled,not as disciplined in all round customers care...ofter jealous of the tips by the premier girls.

New girls often find if they don't get into the premier league after 5 jobs they don't come back and find themselves working for dirty money in the cheap places.

As a customers I probably am kee nok...mak mak

Yes, "premier girls" performing "all round customer care" will usually get a good tip. If they don't, that cheap customer will never get a good massage from anyone they know, let alone one with all round customer care.

[Torrens54]

I used to tease my wife about "being tight" but after a while when you notice how many restaurants and other businesses insist on charging the "extra" Baht on a bill, i.e. Baht 1,001 you start to get a bit "tight yourself" and no longer leave a Tip. Yes, I know that the "tip" is for the waiter, not the restaurateur but it just causes you to be a bit put-off.

Have to agree about Domestic help....we always pay above the award and always get good service from domestics and tradespeople as a result. My wife even goes so far as to share meals if they are here at meal times.

[ericthai]

But what did all those catering staff do with their 10bts....

Maybe they took your 10B tip and along with a few other 10B tips they paid a bill or bought something to eat. Ever think about that?

I know when I was in the university I worked at a restaurant waiting tables. If it wasn't for my tips I wouldn't have paid my bills, my salary was crap.

Tips fed me and paid most of my bills.

[NoshowJones]

What other people want to spend is up to them and none of my business. What other people want to tip is none of my business, although the Yanks are just crazy tippers, seen it there and seen it here. However; it's their money and if they want to chuck it away then so be it. Likewise; what i spend is up to me and nobody else's business, can't understand why people get so worked up about Cheap Charlie's or Loadsamoney's. After all, do we ever worry about it in our own country ?

What I spend is only my business - I agree with you. Since I've been in Thailand my tipping has decreased to only the silver left over on the tray and sometimes I take the 10 Baht coin. I have learned from the "Limeys" and the Canadians and the Japanese that tips should only be given when earned. Yes, I am a "Yank" and we are taught that we should tip 15 to 20% of the bill - led to believe that if you can afford to eat out then you can afford to tip - Never again! I may pay my tuk-tuk drivers a little more than I should but when I need them they will come. I try to be fair, what ever that means, and pay a little bit more for good service. I am a "cheap Charlie" and only pay 7k for my 2 bedroom apartment. I am not poor and make much more money that it takes to live here in Chiang Mai. The other side is I am one who will give to the blind man singing in the dalat or the neighbor that needs a little cash or the books for a childs' education.

I have said this before on this forum, and I'm going to say it again. Before the first time I went on holiday to America, I was reading a magazine about American culture. It said be prepared to give about 20% of your spending money on tips,

Being the Rebel I am, I gave nothing for the four weeks I was there, or the few times I have been since. I am not a Cheap Charlie, but I decide what I do, not what any person, or magazine says. I got a few replies from posters slagging me off because of it, so here we go again.

[NoshowJones]

as far as buying a car or scooter...have you seen the driving habits in this country

over 400 dead and a couplle of thousand injured in seven days during new Years

In Pattaya I initially thought the ramp at the end of the sidewalks was for wheelchair access....silly me,,,I know

know they are so motorcycles can drive for blocks on the sidewalk (ever been hit with a Mirror)

I also understand if there is an accident it is the Falangs fault as if he wasn;t there it would not have happened

no I am probably not buying a vehicle here

Tipping

I must be getting old as I remember what a tip is

it was a way of saying thank you or showing appreciation for good service,,food etc

the meaning of the tip has dissapeared and now is considered obligatory in many places

which is why I resent the tip being automatically added to my bill and taking the choice away from me

I usually tip 10 to 20 percent depending on the quality of the service etc

if 10 percent is added to my bill that is all they are going to get unless something exceptional happened

and I usually do NOT return to these places of business as they have taken an option away from me of not tipping if the food,,service is horrendous

They also have these ramps in the area across from Don Muang airport, but I understand they are not for wheelchair users or motorbikes, they are to stop the sidewalks getting flooded.

[quiuvo]

My OP on tipping was well received. The replies were like here. Now I don't look at 10-20% tip. I give 20-40 baht. When in Thai do what Thais do.

I also don't have a car or motorbike but can afford them. I'm not comfortable driving in heavy traffic in bkk, especially a motor bike and more so if I had a few beers! I just take a taxi.

[FiftyTwo]

But what did all those catering staff do with their 10bts....

Maybe they took your 10B tip and along with a few other 10B tips they paid a bill or bought something to eat. Ever think about that?

I know when I was in the university I worked at a restaurant waiting tables. If it wasn't for my tips I wouldn't have paid my bills, my salary was crap.

Tips fed me and paid most of my bills.

You were being exploited by your employer, hardly the customer's fault.

[NoshowJones]

What other people want to spend is up to them and none of my business. What other people want to tip is none of my business, although the Yanks are just crazy tippers, seen it there and seen it here. However; it's their money and if they want to chuck it away then so be it. Likewise; what i spend is up to me and nobody else's business, can't understand why people get so worked up about Cheap Charlie's or Loadsamoney's. After all, do we ever worry about it in our own country ?

What I spend is only my business - I agree with you. Since I've been in Thailand my tipping has decreased to only the silver left over on the tray and sometimes I take the 10 Baht coin. I have learned from the "Limeys" and the Canadians and the Japanese that tips should only be given when earned. Yes, I am a "Yank" and we are taught that we should tip 15 to 20% of the bill - led to believe that if you can afford to eat out then you can afford to tip - Never again! I may pay my tuk-tuk drivers a little more than I should but when I need them they will come. I try to be fair, what ever that means, and pay a little bit more for good service. I am a "cheap Charlie" and only pay 7k for my 2 bedroom apartment. I am not poor and make much more money that it takes to live here in Chiang Mai. The other side is I am one who will give to the blind man singing in the dalat or the neighbor that needs a little cash or the books for a childs' education.

I have said this before on this forum, and I'm going to say it again. Before the first time I went on holiday to America, I was reading a magazine about American culture. It said be prepared to give about 20% of your spending money on tips,

Being the Rebel I am, I gave nothing for the four weeks I was there, or the few times I have been since. I am not a Cheap Charlie, but I decide what I do, not what any person, or magazine says. I got a few replies from posters slagging me off because of it, so here we go again.

Thanks for the 'like' Fiftytwo, I sure didn't expect that.

[circusman]

And then there are those who are just plain judgmental just because some people don't follow their particular lifestyle.

How 'bout the old adage, "to each his (her) own" as long as these people don't hurt you.

Grandmother had a saying - Each to his own taste said the cat as it licked its ass.

[Chicog]

Basically you've got the tightarses, the skint or the downright rude.

They'll all come up with some excuse or the other, but what they do is ultimately their business and I don't see why they should need to defend themselves.

If they want spit in their soup, that's their problem.

Most people tip after they have eaten.

Are you suggesting the serving staff are psychic?

Obviously you assume that people who routinely don't tip never return to the same establishment.

Which is maybe a good idea, but probably not true.

[ericthai]

But what did all those catering staff do with their 10bts....

Maybe they took your 10B tip and along with a few other 10B tips they paid a bill or bought something to eat. Ever think about that?

I know when I was in the university I worked at a restaurant waiting tables. If it wasn't for my tips I wouldn't have paid my bills, my salary was crap.

Tips fed me and paid most of my bills.

You were being exploited by your employer, hardly the customer's fault.

Customers fault for what? That I provided good service and in return expected a tip?

The employer paid according to what was required by law. I made sure I provided good service to get good tips, which were always appreciated.

I'm from the USA and everyone in the US knows servers rely on tips to pay their bills. That restaurant servers don't get paid minimum wage same as others.

When I'm in the US I tip generously as I know how difficult things can be. Here in Thailand I tip if I get good service.

However this has nothing to do with my comment, which I was replying to the poster. He asked what the staff might do with their tips. I was pointing out that I relied on my tips to pay bills and I'm sure allot of servers in Thailand use their tips to pay bills too, not save up to buy something like a TV.

[NeverSure]

I have said this before on this forum, and I'm going to say it again. Before the first time I went on holiday to America, I was reading a magazine about American culture. It said be prepared to give about 20% of your spending money on tips,

Being the Rebel I am, I gave nothing for the four weeks I was there, or the few times I have been since. I am not a Cheap Charlie, but I decide what I do, not what any person, or magazine says. I got a few replies from posters slagging me off because of it, so here we go again.

Yes, you are a Cheap Charlie who cheated some waiters. Let me explain America to you.

Tipping is so ingrained in the culture that the IRS presumes a food server gets tipped and taxes her for it even if she doesn't get it. It is withheld from her check whether she got it or not.

Second, the US government has a minimum wage and each state can make it even higher. Even so, it is low. Because it is presumed that food servers get tips, and employer is allowed to pay a food server less than minimum wage. The server relies on the tips to make a basic, taxed wage.

So the next time you are so proud of yourself for not tipping an American food server (who I'll bet gave you great service) just remember that you actually cheated her and her family.

So here's one more poster slagging you off as not understanding either the culture or the laws.

Please stay home.

Edited January 20, 2014 by NeverSure

[Docno]

As i said earlier, tipping is the business of whoever is doing the tipping but all these claims of tipping by Thai's seems odd to me as the majority don't, and will tell you not to as well. Some very well heeled Thai's live around our area and they never leave a Baht on the table. I do, but only the 20 Baht my wife allows me to and she thinks that's over the top !

Most Thais, and by "most" I refer to a very high percentage of the Thai population who are in a position to tip, do not tip.

Giving anything that could be interpreted as a leg up to a Thai person who is working for you is anathema to what Thai social interaction is all about.

Just look around the restaurant next time you're out.

Maybe it's about who you choose as friends or the places you go. The Thais I hang out with tip pretty well every time we go out. Try a Thai place, not a pizza restaurant. For example. go to a Tawandang (or similar) and watch what happens when the bill comes. The Thais will always hand over a generous tip to the person or persons that has served them. In fact, they will sometimes do this prior to the bill arriving so as to secure more attention from the servers...

My Thai friends working at restaurants make the same assertion. Thais are reliably the best tippers (on average), and farangs are quite variable -- some are very generous and some don't leave anything (but they can't tell differences in national origin or whether the customer is a stingy TV member). They tell me Chinese are the worst tippers.

I'm not sure where your contempt for the Thais comes from...