Two explosions rock Bangkok, Victory Monument and Rajvith Hospital

[darren84310]

About time they put the Dems and PTP in a big locked room without food, water or any communication devices, and tell them to knock on the door when they have reached and signed an agreement.

[LivinLOS]

About time they put the Dems and PTP in a big locked room without food, water or any communication devices, and tell them to knock on the door when they have reached and signed an agreement.

Two men enter.. One man leaves

[kuka]

Lets not forget the things the Yellow shirts have done in the last 2.5 months of protests....

Destroying government property

Brutally Assaulting Law Enforcement Personel

Attack RED shirt protesters near the University

Cutting water and power to hospitals and police stations

Threatening the lives of the PM and her Cabinet

Disrupting business in Bangkok

Damaging Thailand's reputation in the world

They are acting like Terrorists .....

They should be treated as such (not all of them but the worst need to be punished)

Yingluck has used the utmost restraint and not allowed police to carry weapons...

Now lets see who is the most rational in this predicament.

And the red thugs in 2010?

Different time and different problem ...its 2014 now and this PM was elected by the people.

In 2010, I was living in BKK .....the REDS DID get nasty when the government (headed by an UN-ELECTED PM) starting shooting the peaceful demonstrators.

Apples and Oranges.

You have no idea what you are talking about

Please learn about Politics

The people do not vote in the Government

The people vote in MP's

The group with the most Mps create a government

At that time the government was created by the majority of MP's

So they where elected by elected MP's

So they where the elected government

Please stop trying to re write history and the polictical system

You have no idea what you are talking about. Check your own history.

"Abihisit" was appointed Prime Minister of Thailand on 7/ 17 December 2008 after the Constitutional Court of Thailand removed Prime Minister "Somchai Wongsawar" from office.

He was APPOINTED not elected.

Sent from my SM-N900 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Edited January 20, 2014 by kuka

[AleG]

You have no idea what you are talking about. Check your own history.

"Ability was appointed Prime Minister of Thailand on 7/ 17 December 2008 after the Constitutional Court of Thailand removed Prime Minister "Somchai Wongsawar" from office.

He was APPOINTED not elected.

Sent from my SM-N900 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

He was appointed by elected MPs after a vote at Parliament, goodness gracious, how can you be so uninformed?

I see, you are quoting a Wikipedia article as proof, well, here's Yingluck's article:

After Yingluck Shinawatra was appointed Prime Minister with effect on 5 August 2011

Dear me!, she was also appointed! She wasn't elected!111one111!!

[DocN]

okay it now seems you not read mine and my thai wife's posting

she does not, and never has liked Suthep

so you posting is totally incorrect

If you take the time to read our posts you will see that she is protesting again the taskin problem

and Suthep is a spear head being used

there is no way he will be allowed to take power in Thailand, no matter how much you want to believe he will

I have now lived in Thailand for the last 10 years

have a family here

pay taxes here with a large company that I run

But still understand I have no say in Thai politics, I just bend with the wind

Are you saying that you feel you are not allowed to have an opinion here, so you just latch on to your wife's opinion? You feel you can't have a different opinion as your wife? Whew!

DON'T feed the TROLL!!!

[rjcampbe]

after sitting on the sidelines for a few days I have really noticed how the reds in here are really sprouting a lot of garbage about the protesters doing to themselves and trying desperately to turn the eyes of everyone away from the reds/ptp/police. Actually sounds as if some of them have a bit more knowledge about what is really happening or are on the payroll to turn eyes away from the real culprits, The more they continue to try to blame the people for killing themselves the more guilty they look as do the ones they are trying to protect. This is really looking like the work of thaksins groupies as in 2010, cant wait for him to have an international arrest warrant issued by an honest govt and his sister/ptp all put where they belong(inside, beside him, oh joy!!!!!!!!!!!!

If everybody would just set aside their biases for a minute and think about this situation logically and strategically it would be fairly obvious who the possible culprits of this kind of thing are.

And I want to be clear that I have no side in this... I think both sides are corrupt and neither has any moral ground to stand on.

We don't know, and will probably NEVER know, exactly who is doing it. However, if we review the current situation, we can at least deduce who would benefit from attacking the protests and who would not.

Background

Right now, the yellows are in the streets protesting, and while the support varies day to day, they are keeping up their strategy of protesting until their demands are met. Yellows know that elections will not bring them the result they want because despite their power and money, they are the minority. Therefore, the only path to power is non-democratic...

The only possible paths to power for the Yellows is to protest till the Reds resign and walk away (which no political party in history has ever done, particularly no party with a clear majority). Their other option is to protest until violence ultimately occurs which prompts the Yellow leaning army to step in with yet another coup, restoring the Yellows to power.

Mr. T, Yingluck and crew clearly know this... Which is why they stood down their resistance a couple of weeks back and allowed the protesters access to government buildings and police headquarters... It is why they have not used the police to prevent / stop / resist the demonstrations. They have taken a "non resistance" posture and are essentially waiting for the yellow protest to die down over time. When all these more affluent Thais have to return to their jobs and the comfortable lives they live.

It's a waiting game...

So, keeping this in mind, lets evaluate who would benefit from attacking the protesters...

Option 1 - Red Shirts are attacking the Yellow demonstrations

While there is clearly enough animosity between the two groups, and it would certainly be possible for the top leadership to arrange the attacks, ask yourself what would be gained by the Reds...

The Reds don't want this situation to escalate into violence in the streets... If it does escalate it only provides support for the army to take action in a coup. I think a coup is the Reds biggest fear because they KNOW it is the only way for them to lose power. It is not likely that the leadership would do anything that would encourage that to happen.

It is possible that it is an independent red radical, but I don't think such an order would come from the top.

Option 2 - Yellow Shirts are attacking the Yellow demonstrations

The Yellow leadership, on the other hand, knows that a coup is their best chance of obtaining power.

Most of these attacks have been fairly amateur in execution and, in the process, no yellow leadership has been injured... it's been homemade fireworks thrown at homes with damage to cars... and the shootings and grenades have hurt a few protesters and some street vendors. One might say it was an acceptable level of collateral damage...

Bottom line, would Yellows WOULD benefit from the attacks if they escalated the situation and provoked a coup.

Option 3 - Another group is using this situation to destabilize the Thai government for it's own purposes

I am specifically stating that this option means that this is NOT a third party who is put up to this by one of the other groups, but one who is acting independently for its own purposes.

This is also possible, but it would still benefit the Yellows for the reasons stated above.

Therefore, of all the possibilities, I think PTP is the LEAST likely culprits of these attacks.

[kuka]

You have no idea what you are talking about. Check your own history."Ability was appointed Prime Minister of Thailand on 7/ 17 December 2008 after the Constitutional Court of Thailand removed Prime Minister "Somchai Wongsawar" from office.He was APPOINTED not elected.Sent from my SM-N900 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

He was appointed by elected MPs after a vote at Parliament, goodness gracious, how can you be so uninformed?I see, you are quoting a Wikipedia article as proof, well, here's Yingluck's article:

AfterYingluck Shinawatra was appointed Prime Minister with effect on 5 August 2011

Dear me!, she was also appointed! She wasn't elected!111one111!!

I really dislike know it alls on message boards. If you read the history you will know that the only reason Abhisits party had the majority in 2008 was after intervention by the military strong arming several MP'S to switch parties thus giving his party the majority to select him. It was a total miscarriage of political power. Abhisits party has not won an election in over 10 years and normally never has had a majority. If your going to pretend you know it all ... get educated first.Sent from my SM-N900 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Fat Haggis]

The answer to the "doctoring" grenades is no, the exposives (RDX/TNT) are sealed within a predominant steel shell,(it's this that causes the "fragmentation" there are however, smaller grenades, the size of a golf ball, that would obviously contain a less amount of exposives,
Some of the pictures being shown of the "persons of interest" do have a Military demeanour about them, posture etc.
Whether they're SEAL's or not is dabatable, Thai Navy SEAL's have a pretty tough selection process, and they have a lot better methods of killing, grenades= up lose and personnal, trying to break contact in a huge crowd baying for your blood isn't easy.
All we need to do is look at the frenzied mobs of Northern Ireleand in 1988 when the 2 Brit Squaddies were boxed in, and beaten and then executed, then again in Mogadishu in 93 .

[gerry1011]

The latest info is that it could be the driver of a Democrat MP...

I hope for them that it is not true... (it looks the same person though...)

[Trembly]

after sitting on the sidelines for a few days I have really noticed how the reds in here are really sprouting a lot of garbage about the protesters doing to themselves and trying desperately to turn the eyes of everyone away from the reds/ptp/police. Actually sounds as if some of them have a bit more knowledge about what is really happening or are on the payroll to turn eyes away from the real culprits, The more they continue to try to blame the people for killing themselves the more guilty they look as do the ones they are trying to protect. This is really looking like the work of thaksins groupies as in 2010, cant wait for him to have an international arrest warrant issued by an honest govt and his sister/ptp all put where they belong(inside, beside him, oh joy!!!!!!!!!!!!

If everybody would just set aside their biases for a minute and think about this situation logically and strategically it would be fairly obvious who the possible culprits of this kind of thing are.

And I want to be clear that I have no side in this... I think both sides are corrupt and neither has any moral ground to stand on.

We don't know, and will probably NEVER know, exactly who is doing it. However, if we review the current situation, we can at least deduce who would benefit from attacking the protests and who would not.

Background

Right now, the yellows are in the streets protesting, and while the support varies day to day, they are keeping up their strategy of protesting until their demands are met. Yellows know that elections will not bring them the result they want because despite their power and money, they are the minority. Therefore, the only path to power is non-democratic...

The only possible paths to power for the Yellows is to protest till the Reds resign and walk away (which no political party in history has ever done, particularly no party with a clear majority). Their other option is to protest until violence ultimately occurs which prompts the Yellow leaning army to step in with yet another coup, restoring the Yellows to power.

Mr. T, Yingluck and crew clearly know this... Which is why they stood down their resistance a couple of weeks back and allowed the protesters access to government buildings and police headquarters... It is why they have not used the police to prevent / stop / resist the demonstrations. They have taken a "non resistance" posture and are essentially waiting for the yellow protest to die down over time. When all these more affluent Thais have to return to their jobs and the comfortable lives they live.

It's a waiting game...

So, keeping this in mind, lets evaluate who would benefit from attacking the protesters...

Option 1 - Red Shirts are attacking the Yellow demonstrations

While there is clearly enough animosity between the two groups, and it would certainly be possible for the top leadership to arrange the attacks, ask yourself what would be gained by the Reds...

The Reds don't want this situation to escalate into violence in the streets... If it does escalate it only provides support for the army to take action in a coup. I think a coup is the Reds biggest fear because they KNOW it is the only way for them to lose power. It is not likely that the leadership would do anything that would encourage that to happen.

It is possible that it is an independent red radical, but I don't think such an order would come from the top.

Option 2 - Yellow Shirts are attacking the Yellow demonstrations

The Yellow leadership, on the other hand, knows that a coup is their best chance of obtaining power.

Most of these attacks have been fairly amateur in execution and, in the process, no yellow leadership has been injured... it's been homemade fireworks thrown at homes with damage to cars... and the shootings and grenades have hurt a few protesters and some street vendors. One might say it was an acceptable level of collateral damage...

Bottom line, would Yellows WOULD benefit from the attacks if they escalated the situation and provoked a coup.

Option 3 - Another group is using this situation to destabilize the Thai government for it's own purposes

I am specifically stating that this option means that this is NOT a third party who is put up to this by one of the other groups, but one who is acting independently for its own purposes.

This is also possible, but it would still benefit the Yellows for the reasons stated above.

Therefore, of all the possibilities, I think PTP is the LEAST likely culprits of these attacks.

Farang should do a bit better to keep up if they're to comment meaningfully.

The yellow / red duality has long since been surpassed.

The self-proclaimed yellow shirts can actually be found sulking in a corner because the whistlers have stolen the limelight, and half of them have taken off their yellow shirts to join the whistlers. The whistlers are made up of many disparate groups from various segments of society, some of which would have been yellow shirts before this event and some who wouldn't be seen dead with any coloured-shirt-group before the protests.

If you could read / understand Thai and you did enough digging in the Thai internet you would see that even many old pardoned-communists and die-hard republicans have come out in favour of the protests in principle, if not in favour of Suthep or some of the tactics used so far.

Edited January 20, 2014 by Trembly

[Trembly]

The answer to the "doctoring" grenades is no, the exposives (RDX/TNT) are sealed within a predominant steel shell,(it's this that causes the "fragmentation" there are however, smaller grenades, the size of a golf ball, that would obviously contain a less amount of exposives,

Some of the pictures being shown of the "persons of interest" do have a Military demeanour about them, posture etc.

Whether they're SEAL's or not is dabatable, Thai Navy SEAL's have a pretty tough selection process, and they have a lot better methods of killing, grenades= up lose and personnal, trying to break contact in a huge crowd baying for your blood isn't easy.

All we need to do is look at the frenzied mobs of Northern Ireleand in 1988 when the 2 Brit Squaddies were boxed in, and beaten and then executed, then again in Mogadishu in 93 .

Agreed. The Thai SEALs are actually pretty well regarded by their US mentors so this bandying about of the word SEAL is probably lazy journalism and misinformed public ("ooh look he's from the navy and he's got a gun, he must be a SEAL!").

Edit : then again, you could be the best trained super-soldier in the world but if you were given a stupid order . . .

Edited January 20, 2014 by Trembly

[AleG]

The latest info is that it could be the driver of a Democrat MP...

I hope for them that it is not true... (it looks the same person though...)

The man on those photos was the driver of the late Seh Daeng, not a Democrat MP.

Being a troll is not enough anymore? Now you just have to lie openly to muddle the waters?

[Trembly]

The latest info is that it could be the driver of a Democrat MP...

I hope for them that it is not true... (it looks the same person though...)

I'd be very careful of these internet cut-and-paste jobs. Anyone can make them and there's only too many morons ready to start frothing at the gash no matter how ridiculous the narrative.

It reminds me of a truly silly one that surfaced from the anti-Thaksin camp immediately after the stadium siege:

I can't find the actual meme but it contained this photo and the caption read "PROOF THAT CAMBODIAN MERCENARIES ARE BEING IMPORTED TO KILL THAIS BY THE EVIL THAKSIN REGIME" or something like that. It was on Facebook and there were several thousand likes and about as many comments baying for blood.

Many of them actually believed that it was a Cambodian passport that they were looking at (the Cambodian bank note did the trick!). I was one of the very few people who pointed out that it was a Thai passport, and I went through all of the design features including the THA in the machine-readable code, the T-h-a-i-l-a-n-d above the photo etc, and the fact that the Cambodian bank note or whatever it is isn't even stuck in the passport.

To this the admin of the Facebook page replied "yeah but it could be a fake passport, and anyway the holder was speaking Cambodian". At this point I was about to say "well how the <deleted> do you know?" but I just decided to give up.

The Emperor Mong was just too powerful in that encounter.

Edited January 20, 2014 by Trembly

[gerry1011]

The latest info is that it could be the driver of a Democrat MP...

I hope for them that it is not true... (it looks the same person though...)

The man on those photos was the driver of the late Seh Daeng, not a Democrat MP.

Being a troll is not enough anymore? Now you just have to lie openly to muddle the waters?

He was...

Now he is the driver of a democrat MP in Pichit

(according to the Thai language available information (and as written on this picture), which you most probably can't read).

[rjcampbe]

after sitting on the sidelines for a few days I have really noticed how the reds in here are really sprouting a lot of garbage about the protesters doing to themselves and trying desperately to turn the eyes of everyone away from the reds/ptp/police. Actually sounds as if some of them have a bit more knowledge about what is really happening or are on the payroll to turn eyes away from the real culprits, The more they continue to try to blame the people for killing themselves the more guilty they look as do the ones they are trying to protect. This is really looking like the work of thaksins groupies as in 2010, cant wait for him to have an international arrest warrant issued by an honest govt and his sister/ptp all put where they belong(inside, beside him, oh joy!!!!!!!!!!!!

If everybody would just set aside their biases for a minute and think about this situation logically and strategically it would be fairly obvious who the possible culprits of this kind of thing are.

And I want to be clear that I have no side in this... I think both sides are corrupt and neither has any moral ground to stand on.

We don't know, and will probably NEVER know, exactly who is doing it. However, if we review the current situation, we can at least deduce who would benefit from attacking the protests and who would not.

Background

Right now, the yellows are in the streets protesting, and while the support varies day to day, they are keeping up their strategy of protesting until their demands are met. Yellows know that elections will not bring them the result they want because despite their power and money, they are the minority. Therefore, the only path to power is non-democratic...

The only possible paths to power for the Yellows is to protest till the Reds resign and walk away (which no political party in history has ever done, particularly no party with a clear majority). Their other option is to protest until violence ultimately occurs which prompts the Yellow leaning army to step in with yet another coup, restoring the Yellows to power.

Mr. T, Yingluck and crew clearly know this... Which is why they stood down their resistance a couple of weeks back and allowed the protesters access to government buildings and police headquarters... It is why they have not used the police to prevent / stop / resist the demonstrations. They have taken a "non resistance" posture and are essentially waiting for the yellow protest to die down over time. When all these more affluent Thais have to return to their jobs and the comfortable lives they live.

It's a waiting game...

So, keeping this in mind, lets evaluate who would benefit from attacking the protesters...

Option 1 - Red Shirts are attacking the Yellow demonstrations

While there is clearly enough animosity between the two groups, and it would certainly be possible for the top leadership to arrange the attacks, ask yourself what would be gained by the Reds...

The Reds don't want this situation to escalate into violence in the streets... If it does escalate it only provides support for the army to take action in a coup. I think a coup is the Reds biggest fear because they KNOW it is the only way for them to lose power. It is not likely that the leadership would do anything that would encourage that to happen.

It is possible that it is an independent red radical, but I don't think such an order would come from the top.

Option 2 - Yellow Shirts are attacking the Yellow demonstrations

The Yellow leadership, on the other hand, knows that a coup is their best chance of obtaining power.

Most of these attacks have been fairly amateur in execution and, in the process, no yellow leadership has been injured... it's been homemade fireworks thrown at homes with damage to cars... and the shootings and grenades have hurt a few protesters and some street vendors. One might say it was an acceptable level of collateral damage...

Bottom line, would Yellows WOULD benefit from the attacks if they escalated the situation and provoked a coup.

Option 3 - Another group is using this situation to destabilize the Thai government for it's own purposes

I am specifically stating that this option means that this is NOT a third party who is put up to this by one of the other groups, but one who is acting independently for its own purposes.

This is also possible, but it would still benefit the Yellows for the reasons stated above.

Therefore, of all the possibilities, I think PTP is the LEAST likely culprits of these attacks.

Farang should do a bit better to keep up if they're to comment meaningfully.

The yellow / red duality has long since been surpassed.

The self-proclaimed yellow shirts can actually be found sulking in a corner because the whistlers have stolen the limelight, and half of them have taken off their yellow shirts to join the whistlers. The whistlers are made up of many disparate groups from various segments of society, some of which would have been yellow shirts before this event and some who wouldn't be seen dead with any coloured-shirt-group before the protests.

If you could read / understand Thai and you did enough digging in the Thai internet you would see that even many old pardoned-communists and die-hard republicans have come out in favour of the protests in principle, if not in favour of Suthep or some of the tactics used so far.

Trembly,

The terms "red" and "yellow" were used generically to describe the two positions for simplicity and conciseness in presenting the argument and are accurate enough for the purpose intended.

If YOU intend to comment meaningfully, perhaps you might begin by addressing the argument made instead of nit picking on irrelevant details and attacking me on the basis of being a "farang".

This is exactly the kind of uneducated lack of reasoning that causes so much trouble in this country. The biggest issue is undisciplined minds and therefore the lack of ability to logically reason and think analytically. I do appreciate you demonstrating this point for me.

The fact remains... the protesters (by whatever name you choose to apply to them) have more to gain from the escalation of violence than the pro government side (by whatever name you apply to them) in this situation.

[Fat Haggis]

The answer to the "doctoring" grenades is no, the exposives (RDX/TNT) are sealed within a predominant steel shell,(it's this that causes the "fragmentation" there are however, smaller grenades, the size of a golf ball, that would obviously contain a less amount of exposives,

Some of the pictures being shown of the "persons of interest" do have a Military demeanour about them, posture etc.

Whether they're SEAL's or not is dabatable, Thai Navy SEAL's have a pretty tough selection process, and they have a lot better methods of killing, grenades= up lose and personnal, trying to break contact in a huge crowd baying for your blood isn't easy.

All we need to do is look at the frenzied mobs of Northern Ireleand in 1988 when the 2 Brit Squaddies were boxed in, and beaten and then executed, then again in Mogadishu in 93 .

Agreed. The Thai SEALs are actually pretty well regarded by their US mentors so this bandying about of the word SEAL is probably lazy journalism and misinformed public ("ooh look he's from the navy and he's got a gun, he must be a SEAL!").

Edit : then again, you could be the best trained super-soldier in the world but if you were given a stupid order . . .

Any Mission of a sensative nature includes Planning and Preparation, which would include the sanitising of all personal effects, no mobile phones, certainly NO ID's or anything that could incriminate you if you're compromised/captured.

Disinformation is also manipulated miss information, for as sure as there's shit in a dog, and it happens all the time!!

I recall a Pentagon spokesperson during Iraqi Freedom saying something along the lines of " I can categorically tell you that no Apache Helicopter was shot down, and if it had, it would have been destroyed in an airstrike" ....only to see an Apache Helicopter, one of the more sophisticated "D" (Longbow) versions looking pretty intact on the back o a flat bed driving through Baghdad!! Propaganda can indeed make you look like a knob too!!

[AleG]

The man on those photos was the driver of the late Seh Daeng, not a Democrat MP.

Being a troll is not enough anymore? Now you just have to lie openly to muddle the waters?

He was...

Now he is the driver of a democrat MP in Pichit

(according to the Thai language available information (and as written on this picture), which you most probably can't read).

Sure he was, from working with Seh Daeng to working for a Democrat.

[tezzainoz]

First.. Learn to quote properly.. Its not difficult.

Your clearly in cloud cuckoo land.. the article clearly doesnt say that.

The piece says she has 'sent signals' and 'is trying to seek talks' but of course dear leader has stated he will never discuss or negotiate.. So we have a stalemate.

Who is in cookoo land my posting said "She has sent signal's to allow her a retreat

I then said that ith Suthep does not agree , he then is not a leader who has the best of Thailand interest in mind

Even when there is a light at the end of the tunnel you are hell bent on keeping the problem going

Fact

1) If Yingluck is prepared to step down and put back the election till after the 180 days she has the best interests of Thailand at mind

2) If Suthep does not agree then he does not have the best interest of Thailand at mind

or

1) If Suthep does agree then he does have the best interest of Thailand at mind

2) If Yingluck changes her mind because the master tells her not to step down and put back the election till after the 180 days, PTP only has the best interests of themselves in Mind

all your debating will not change any thing

It is now up to these 2 people

Lets the decide who is for Thailand

You said (and I quoted it so you couldnt wriggle)

It seems every thing has now changed

According to a news paper article to day, that I am not allowed to link to says

!!!!!! Yingluck has agreed to remove her self as the PM and allow the election to be postponed !!!!!

as long as the protest is ended

So if this is true and not a lie from The PM, every member writing to this topic now must agree

Its over

My wife and all her friend are coming home

..................................

But if she is telling a lie

Then again all members of Thai Visa must agree this Caretaker government have no right to govern Thailand any more

So lets see over the next few days who is at fault

The article is very clear in that she is trying to have talks, a discussion, a meeting, some negotiation.. And 'on offer' is potentially her resignation..

That isnt the same as "she has said she will" and if she doesnt she is telling a lie and has no legitimacy to govern. An offer is not a deal. Suthep wont come to the table so an offer is just that, an offer, the ball is now in his court.

If Suthep refuses her offer.. What is your opinion then ??

So in your logic if she make and offer that does not mean she has to except

In my logic if you negotiate with some one this is what you are prepared to give, but in your logic are you satying that the pTP can make an ofer that have no intention to agree with

No wonder we are in trouble in thailand with logic like yours

"If Suthep refuses her offer.. What is your opinion then ?? "

I have already made that clear

Can you not read

or do yo not want to

[tezzainoz]

okay it now seems you not read mine and my thai wife's posting

she does not, and never has liked Suthep

so you posting is totally incorrect

If you take the time to read our posts you will see that she is protesting again the taskin problem

and Suthep is a spear head being used

there is no way he will be allowed to take power in Thailand, no matter how much you want to believe he will

I have now lived in Thailand for the last 10 years

have a family here

pay taxes here with a large company that I run

But still understand I have no say in Thai politics, I just bend with the wind

Are you saying that you feel you are not allowed to have an opinion here, so you just latch on to your wife's opinion? You feel you can't have a different opinion as your wife? Whew!

DON'T feed the TROLL!!!

I think the best is not to argue with idiots thy win with experience every time

[Smokemachine]

People are saying this is the real culprit.

His brother has participated the red protest in 2010 and he is dead. Now the culprit is working for Ko tee.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=473691896069529&set=a.277173359054718.53413.277164659055588&type=1&theater

[Smokemachine]

The man on those photos was the driver of the late Seh Daeng, not a Democrat MP.

Being a troll is not enough anymore? Now you just have to lie openly to muddle the waters?

He was...

Now he is the driver of a democrat MP in Pichit

(according to the Thai language available information (and as written on this picture), which you most probably can't read).

Sure he was, from working with Seh Daeng to working for a Democrat.

If he is working for Democrat then what is his motive?

His brother is a red supporter and is killed in 2010 protest.

Got info from social media.

[speedtripler]

The answer to the "doctoring" grenades is no, the exposives (RDX/TNT) are sealed within a predominant steel shell,(it's this that causes the "fragmentation" there are however, smaller grenades, the size of a golf ball, that would obviously contain a less amount of exposives,

Some of the pictures being shown of the "persons of interest" do have a Military demeanour about them, posture etc.

Whether they're SEAL's or not is dabatable, Thai Navy SEAL's have a pretty tough selection process, and they have a lot better methods of killing, grenades= up lose and personnal, trying to break contact in a huge crowd baying for your blood isn't easy.

All we need to do is look at the frenzied mobs of Northern Ireleand in 1988 when the 2 Brit Squaddies were boxed in, and beaten and then executed, then again in Mogadishu in 93 .

calling him a navy seal when he throws a grenade like a 12 year old girl and it hits the ceiling and falls down by his feet

is a bit far fetched imo

because he has short haircut he must be military ?

a team of 6 navy seals (as stated by the pdrc ) would have killed whoever the intended target was and probably not with

something as messy as a grenade

[Groongthep]

This in my opinion is the final straw. The red shirts and the PTP are so entwined that there is no way the government can claim innocence in this.

Stop and think about it for a moment. Violence is the last thing the government wants. They want elections to be held because they know they are certain to win again. The anti-government camp however, knows that violence is the one thing that will most likely force the military to stage another coup.

Two grenades in two crowded areas in two days and nobody has been caught. Rather fishy don't you think?

It's not about how a govt is elected, its about how they govern once they are in power. Yes PT have a right to govern once they win the election (and they will) but they have an obligation to rule in a manner that benifits the country not themselves. The inept, corrupt, authoritarian, criminal manner of PT's time in govt is what the protesters are against, not elections.

What suthep and his fascist council want is something else, they have their own agenda and have hijacked a protest movement that has genuine grievances.

Blue Spunk, My post was about the violence and who may be behind it and what the major players have to win or lose because of it. I don't need a re-hash of the same old pontifications we have been reading in the newspapers since this whole thing began.

[NHT]

Well. Police on to this like a shot were they not. Think they know its one of Sutheps men. CCTV pics 4 at least look clear as a bell and in colour.

Names appearing already but only speculation..... But if you follow twitter and follow the FB links, they have the name of a Navy seal one of Sutheps Bodyguards.... lots of pics and lots of speculation.

Proves nothing, but there is a debate raging.

Suthep accuses the government of being behind the blasts, ... Ridiculous.

The police is seeking a former Democrat MP's aide who acted suspiciously... Believable.

Now there are clear pictures of the man (in white with a black cap) who dropped the grenade today...

Some indeed already put a name on the man... Soon we will know the truth...

And the truth may be very disturbing for Suthep... He will have to drop a few more tears to make the people believe he is not seeking violence...

What is certain is that Suthep, the Dems and all those irrational people who support this madness, should be held responsible for all the deaths which occured and will occur during his insane protests. From the very beginning it was very clear that the mob rule is not a solution to anything. It can only make the things worse.

These protests and their ridiculous demands aren't going anywhere. These naive protesters should better go home and give the country a break.

Yingluck will hopefully save the country from these thugs

People started this circus, people can end it.

There's no need for any "political" party to end it.

If people would start using brains instead of greed, this country could go a long way.

Over 95% Buddhist?

Yes sure. Just as much used as an excuse as "culture"!

Edited January 20, 2014 by NHT

[Groongthep]

This in my opinion is the final straw. The red shirts and the PTP are so entwined that there is no way the government can claim innocence in this.

Stop and think about it for a moment. Violence is the last thing the government wants. They want elections to be held because they know they are certain to win again. The anti-government camp however, knows that violence is the one thing that will most likely force the military to stage another coup.

Two grenades in two crowded areas in two days and nobody has been caught. Rather fishy don't you think?

Stop and think about it. They do not have enough people registered to have a quorum so what has the PTP to gain by winning a costly pointless election. It is far more than two grenades in two days I don't even know how many there has been today. Maybe they were other type explosives. same same.

It would be to the advantage of the PTP to put the election off but to do that they would also have to back peddle more from Suthep. they reject his demands and then with out talking to him they take a step towards doing what he wants. They are drawing the line here. Like it or not the red shirts are a part of their political machine and have a proven record of violence.

When I say they back peddle from his demands I mean things like the senate not ratifying a bill to make Thaksin innocent. I for one think they had a lot to do with the senate not having a quorum. Refusing to disband the house then doing it. Refusing to step down as interim government and then setting up a committee to do what Suthep wanted. Except that they are going to control it. Little steps towards what Suthep wants. With another three months before the elections as a result of the failed one on the second of Feb. the protestors will be gone. The only ones left will be the retired people who have all the time in the world and do not need to make a living.

If the government did not want violence they would tell the red shirt leaders to rein in their troops.

Don't even bother to ask me why the red shirts would do it. violence is there strong point not logic. If logic was they would do all in their power to make sure the Feb2 farce comes off.

What nonsemse. You haven't a clue about what's going on.

[Trembly]

after sitting on the sidelines for a few days I have really noticed how the reds in here are really sprouting a lot of garbage about the protesters doing to themselves and trying desperately to turn the eyes of everyone away from the reds/ptp/police. Actually sounds as if some of them have a bit more knowledge about what is really happening or are on the payroll to turn eyes away from the real culprits, The more they continue to try to blame the people for killing themselves the more guilty they look as do the ones they are trying to protect. This is really looking like the work of thaksins groupies as in 2010, cant wait for him to have an international arrest warrant issued by an honest govt and his sister/ptp all put where they belong(inside, beside him, oh joy!!!!!!!!!!!!

If everybody would just set aside their biases for a minute and think about this situation logically and strategically it would be fairly obvious who the possible culprits of this kind of thing are.

And I want to be clear that I have no side in this... I think both sides are corrupt and neither has any moral ground to stand on.

We don't know, and will probably NEVER know, exactly who is doing it. However, if we review the current situation, we can at least deduce who would benefit from attacking the protests and who would not.

Background

Right now, the yellows are in the streets protesting, and while the support varies day to day, they are keeping up their strategy of protesting until their demands are met. Yellows know that elections will not bring them the result they want because despite their power and money, they are the minority. Therefore, the only path to power is non-democratic...

The only possible paths to power for the Yellows is to protest till the Reds resign and walk away (which no political party in history has ever done, particularly no party with a clear majority). Their other option is to protest until violence ultimately occurs which prompts the Yellow leaning army to step in with yet another coup, restoring the Yellows to power.

Mr. T, Yingluck and crew clearly know this... Which is why they stood down their resistance a couple of weeks back and allowed the protesters access to government buildings and police headquarters... It is why they have not used the police to prevent / stop / resist the demonstrations. They have taken a "non resistance" posture and are essentially waiting for the yellow protest to die down over time. When all these more affluent Thais have to return to their jobs and the comfortable lives they live.

It's a waiting game...

So, keeping this in mind, lets evaluate who would benefit from attacking the protesters...

Option 1 - Red Shirts are attacking the Yellow demonstrations

While there is clearly enough animosity between the two groups, and it would certainly be possible for the top leadership to arrange the attacks, ask yourself what would be gained by the Reds...

The Reds don't want this situation to escalate into violence in the streets... If it does escalate it only provides support for the army to take action in a coup. I think a coup is the Reds biggest fear because they KNOW it is the only way for them to lose power. It is not likely that the leadership would do anything that would encourage that to happen.

It is possible that it is an independent red radical, but I don't think such an order would come from the top.

Option 2 - Yellow Shirts are attacking the Yellow demonstrations

The Yellow leadership, on the other hand, knows that a coup is their best chance of obtaining power.

Most of these attacks have been fairly amateur in execution and, in the process, no yellow leadership has been injured... it's been homemade fireworks thrown at homes with damage to cars... and the shootings and grenades have hurt a few protesters and some street vendors. One might say it was an acceptable level of collateral damage...

Bottom line, would Yellows WOULD benefit from the attacks if they escalated the situation and provoked a coup.

Option 3 - Another group is using this situation to destabilize the Thai government for it's own purposes

I am specifically stating that this option means that this is NOT a third party who is put up to this by one of the other groups, but one who is acting independently for its own purposes.

This is also possible, but it would still benefit the Yellows for the reasons stated above.

Therefore, of all the possibilities, I think PTP is the LEAST likely culprits of these attacks.

Farang should do a bit better to keep up if they're to comment meaningfully.

The yellow / red duality has long since been surpassed.

The self-proclaimed yellow shirts can actually be found sulking in a corner because the whistlers have stolen the limelight, and half of them have taken off their yellow shirts to join the whistlers. The whistlers are made up of many disparate groups from various segments of society, some of which would have been yellow shirts before this event and some who wouldn't be seen dead with any coloured-shirt-group before the protests.

If you could read / understand Thai and you did enough digging in the Thai internet you would see that even many old pardoned-communists and die-hard republicans have come out in favour of the protests in principle, if not in favour of Suthep or some of the tactics used so far.

Trembly,

The terms "red" and "yellow" were used generically to describe the two positions for simplicity and conciseness in presenting the argument and are accurate enough for the purpose intended.

If YOU intend to comment meaningfully, perhaps you might begin by addressing the argument made instead of nit picking on irrelevant details and attacking me on the basis of being a "farang".

This is exactly the kind of uneducated lack of reasoning that causes so much trouble in this country. The biggest issue is undisciplined minds and therefore the lack of ability to logically reason and think analytically. I do appreciate you demonstrating this point for me.

The fact remains... the protesters (by whatever name you choose to apply to them) have more to gain from the escalation of violence than the pro government side (by whatever name you apply to them) in this situation.

To describe the protesters simply as "yellow" is about as concise (or obtuse) as describing all environmentalists as long-haired anarcho-hippies.

If you think that's nitpicking then . . . well . . . it's probably no use me carrying on. Something about 'compounded error', 'assumptions', 'joined-up motives / chain of command'. Never mind.

I think we need to import some more of that logical educated reasoning.

Edited January 23, 2014 by Trembly

[gerry1011]

Since the anti-government posters of this great forum have "classified" me as a "red" (a long time ago)... I also allow myself to use the "yellow" term quite loosely

But since we should not take the comments written on this forum too seriously, it does not really matter

Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Edited January 23, 2014 by gerry1011