To Barack Obama: Mr President, some facts you should know about the Thai political crisis

[casualbiker]

Obama after reading the letter - "But Thaksin is not the Prime Minister nor even in Thailand. What's the matter with these protesters? And they want to replace an elected government with a communist-type committee and call it democracy?"

Then we would have to say.. fella the only communists are in the UDD and that's Thaksins bought and paid for lot.

Which makes them.capitalist communists????

Where is this crazy place, let's go see. Sounds like it could be entertaining.

By contrast the PAD or whatever one may call them are Capitalist anarchist not to be confused with socialist anarchists.

Social anarchy presupposes a barter system which could work but for the capitalist anarchist who just want to take from the rest of us.

In africa they follow tge man with the big gun here it's the man with the big wad.

They're cruel, amoral and with el suthep they have found their fuhrer.

Right ....

Sent from my XT1032 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Scott]

Off-topic posts, inflammatory posts, posts with messed up quotes, posts with profanity and replies have been deleted.

[Thait Spot]

http://nsnbc.me/2014/01/19/us-creeping-front-thailand/ this article seems to be more relevant to OP, I think...

Very informative. Unfortunately too many words for thaivisa shinaclan supporters.

You expect a country with democracy embedded in its foundation, which actively builds nations on democratic basis, to listen to a nutjob who wants to undo parliamentary democracy to promote democracy?

I think that the USA's incursions into SE Asia have been significantly short of successful.

[dighambara]

'Isn't this precious..??'

Sending a letter to an empty suit who has no understanding of foreign events or policy..!!

[Publicus]

http://nsnbc.me/2014/01/19/us-creeping-front-thailand/ this article seems to be more relevant to OP, I think...

Very informative. Unfortunately too many words for thaivisa shinaclan supporters.

You expect a country with democracy embedded in its foundation, which actively builds nations on democratic basis, to listen to a nutjob who wants to undo parliamentary democracy to promote democracy?

I think that the USA's incursions into SE Asia have been significantly short of successful.

The long haul of diplomacy since 1945 has been and continues to be highly successful. The Trans Pacific Partnership is developing well while Beijing watches. The military Rebalancing to the Pacific is well underway.

The US has five critical treaty allies in the Asia-Pacific strategic region, to include Thailand which is the US's oldest Asia treaty ally and partner.

You just got taken to a crash course at school.

[Eagle60]

Well said.

The US Gov. know about all that issues mention, but they don't care.

There isn't a true Democracy in US either with 2 Party system, or State in State system (NSA).

It's all about INFLUENCE and POWER

What is a "true" democracy?

In an absolute democracy if the majority deemed that the minority should be killed then that would be right, just and correct.....according to the principles of "democracy."

There is no such thing as a "true" democracy as we know that it would never work. The majority is sometimes wrong.

What we are hearing is all just rhetoric, and has nothing to do with "democracy."

[Eagle60]

Why does everyone keep harking on about Suthep. He is just a face. Many of the people protesting are not there for him at all. They are there for the obvious reasons, that any child can clearly see, staring them in the face. The absolute majority of protesters are not violent. Most are tax payers and it is their money and hard work that pays for the roads you use, the airports you fly in to and the lights that allow you to walk around at night under. It is their tax payments that keep the country going. They are blowing whistles, singing songs, smiling and carrying out their fundamental right to protest. I have been around them, gone to the shops and nothing made me feel angry or scared. I actually felt a great deal of warmth and positive spirit. It is not my country and I am unbiased and open minded. I am not political and choose to remain out of other people's business. Of course valid opinion is a good thing but how much is opinion and how much is sheer ignorance and prejudice.

That does not mean everything they do is correct of course. But I hardly feel their nemesis has conducted themselves anywhere near as well. Why is it bothering everyone so much. Shops are open, the bar huggers can still drink, the airport is open.....chill out for god's sake. Let's all hope that it can be resolved through dialogue and peaceful means. But it is for The Thai people to decide and work out. And to keep hacking on about democracy. Ask any politician anywhere in the world and most would not be able to tell you what it is. It's a myth and does not exist. Certainly not in USA, UK or many countries.

In the USA power and wealth of the country is controlled and owned by a tiny minority. As too in the UK. And I believe in both places our so called lovely democratic leaders used tax payers money to pay back a load of heinous bankers and then made cut backs that hurt the people even more. So democratic of them...thank you so much you democratic wonderful leaders....enough already....Please do not keep going on about democracy. Have we all not seen what our leaders did for us during the latest banking and economic meltdown. So loyal and considerate to us the people. Come on please...let's be serious. I do not think any external country can hold the moral high ground over Thailand. By the way if Thailand is so wrong why did it pip London last year to be the most visited country and more visitors came through Bangkok. Why because it is loved for the way it is. Who says our countries are right.....from my viewpoint we are being abused and cheated continually back home and it is a joke to suggest otherwise. Ask the millions who lost their homes, lost their jobs, got no help from their leaders.... while the bankers got big bonuses and all the help they required.. Come on ...be real. Let's be fair here.

As for the letter. If a congressman had not interfered in Thailand's affairs then maybe this lawyer would not have written the letter. They are perfectly entitled to and I may add put their legal reputation on the line to speak out at what they believe to be the truth. Why does it anger foreigners so much. It seems to me there is an engrained desire for western people to control and dictate to others. Being a westerner I feel ashamed sometimes and also saddened by the sheer arrogance, ignorance and naivety of their comments and thoughts. Luckily amongst the diatribe there are still some intelligent well thought comments. Peace man.

[SparklingCascades]

Vanina Sucharitkul wants democracy and yet finds it difficult to accept the popular vote outcome when his side (the Democrats) lose an election.

Instead, of long hours spent writing stories like this one Vanina needs to think of 'clever ways' to win back the Northern vote. I am equally keen to be rid of both Pheu Thai (and maybe even the old Democrats) but I know that it needs to happen in the democracy-space ie: the ballot box. It happens with a war-of-ideas and not a pointless war-of-words or by paralyzing Bangkok/provinces. Today the Democrats sound like a sour loser & a spoiler. Vanina Sucharitkul you are a supposed professional. Maybe you can try to act and sound like one, instead of coming across like a party hack.

Also - being both "American and Thai" is hardly a qualification like you make it sound. I too could boast of having dual (even triple) nationality but it does'nt mean a thing unless we sound like well-bred, neutral & trusted umpires rather than a self-absorbed player.

Sadly 'clever ideas' is not something Vanina is good at.

Back room dealing, fighting it out in the courts and finally taking to the streets when all else fails is a Vanina forte and so we must ignore his self-serving rants.

Edited January 21, 2014 by metisdead
Font

[Hecate]

Why is this addressed to Barack Obama of all people? Shouldn't it be addressed to Thai voters? Aren't they the only ones who can bring about what the author wants? Why did the yellow shirts not prosecute Thaksin for the extra-judicial killings when they had the chance after the 2006 coup? Why don't the yellow shirts offer something to the rural poor, instead of shooting at red shirt leaders as they did in 2010 and trying to disenfranchise them as they are doing now? That's the only way out of this mess. Democracy is the only way out.

[Thai at Heart]

I have michael yon subscribed to my Facebook. Seems that the propaganda wing of this protest are a lot more.organised

On his page right now there is some nonsense accusing the foreign western media of being beholden to Thaksin money.

This stuff is getting more nationalistic and bizarre by the daym

I mentioned a while back that one of my wifes Facebook friends accused all neutral locals of being un-Thai and that they should renounce their citizenship. Her latest little descent into the land of batshit crazy is that she'd been informed that thaksin had purchased the Washington post and, wait for it, the BBC. The worrying aspect are the amount of likes this "exclusive" had received

There is a YouTube video of some woman screaming like a banshee at the foreign press corp about thaksin.

Suthep will have a lot to answer for when this is finished.

[Thai at Heart]

Why does everyone keep harking on about Suthep. He is just a face. Many of the people protesting are not there for him at all. They are there for the obvious reasons, that any child can clearly see, staring them in the face. The absolute majority of protesters are not violent. Most are tax payers and it is their money and hard work that pays for the roads you use, the airports you fly in to and the lights that allow you to walk around at night under. It is their tax payments that keep the country going. They are blowing whistles, singing songs, smiling and carrying out their fundamental right to protest. I have been around them, gone to the shops and nothing made me feel angry or scared. I actually felt a great deal of warmth and positive spirit. It is not my country and I am unbiased and open minded. I am not political and choose to remain out of other people's business. Of course valid opinion is a good thing but how much is opinion and how much is sheer ignorance and prejudice.

That does not mean everything they do is correct of course. But I hardly feel their nemesis has conducted themselves anywhere near as well. Why is it bothering everyone so much. Shops are open, the bar huggers can still drink, the airport is open.....chill out for god's sake. Let's all hope that it can be resolved through dialogue and peaceful means. But it is for The Thai people to decide and work out. And to keep hacking on about democracy. Ask any politician anywhere in the world and most would not be able to tell you what it is. It's a myth and does not exist. Certainly not in USA, UK or many countries.

In the USA power and wealth of the country is controlled and owned by a tiny minority. As too in the UK. And I believe in both places our so called lovely democratic leaders used tax payers money to pay back a load of heinous bankers and then made cut backs that hurt the people even more. So democratic of them...thank you so much you democratic wonderful leaders....enough already....Please do not keep going on about democracy. Have we all not seen what our leaders did for us during the latest banking and economic meltdown. So loyal and considerate to us the people. Come on please...let's be serious. I do not think any external country can hold the moral high ground over Thailand. By the way if Thailand is so wrong why did it pip London last year to be the most visited country and more visitors came through Bangkok. Why because it is loved for the way it is. Who says our countries are right.....from my viewpoint we are being abused and cheated continually back home and it is a joke to suggest otherwise. Ask the millions who lost their homes, lost their jobs, got no help from their leaders.... while the bankers got big bonuses and all the help they required.. Come on ...be real. Let's be fair here.

As for the letter. If a congressman had not interfered in Thailand's affairs then maybe this lawyer would not have written the letter. They are perfectly entitled to and I may add put their legal reputation on the line to speak out at what they believe to be the truth. Why does it anger foreigners so much. It seems to me there is an engrained desire for western people to control and dictate to others. Being a westerner I feel ashamed sometimes and also saddened by the sheer arrogance, ignorance and naivety of their comments and thoughts. Luckily amongst the diatribe there are still some intelligent well thought comments. Peace man.

Once you state, most are tax payers, that is the end. There is firstly no proof if that and secondly that doesn't give them any more or less moral right to be heard than any other.

Corruption sucks. Where were this lot during the bomb detector scandal?

[mca]

I have michael yon subscribed to my Facebook. Seems that the propaganda wing of this protest are a lot more.organised

On his page right now there is some nonsense accusing the foreign western media of being beholden to Thaksin money.

This stuff is getting more nationalistic and bizarre by the daym

I mentioned a while back that one of my wifes Facebook friends accused all neutral locals of being un-Thai and that they should renounce their citizenship. Her latest little descent into the land of batshit crazy is that she'd been informed that thaksin had purchased the Washington post and, wait for it, the BBC. The worrying aspect are the amount of likes this "exclusive" had received

There is a YouTube video of some woman screaming like a banshee at the foreign press corp about thaksin.

Suthep will have a lot to answer for when this is finished.

That's the whole thing isn't it. No matter which side "wins" there's not going to be a clean " Well that's that sorted" ending.

[Thai at Heart]

I have michael yon subscribed to my Facebook. Seems that the propaganda wing of this protest are a lot more.organised

On his page right now there is some nonsense accusing the foreign western media of being beholden to Thaksin money.

This stuff is getting more nationalistic and bizarre by the daym

I mentioned a while back that one of my wifes Facebook friends accused all neutral locals of being un-Thai and that they should renounce their citizenship. Her latest little descent into the land of batshit crazy is that she'd been informed that thaksin had purchased the Washington post and, wait for it, the BBC. The worrying aspect are the amount of likes this "exclusive" had received

There is a YouTube video of some woman screaming like a banshee at the foreign press corp about thaksin.

Suthep will have a lot to answer for when this is finished.

That's the whole thing isn't it. No matter which side "wins" there's not going to be a clean " Well that's that sorted" ending.

Impossible. But this anti foreign sentiment I don't like one bit. The sheeple lap it up.

[mca]

But this anti foreign sentiment I don't like one bit. The sheeple lap it up.

And you know the best part? The two people of my wife's acquaintance lapping up the most outlandish offal spoonfed them obtained their M.A.s in England and Australia. Stuff that would make the most hardcore Red Shirt or PAD member go " Hold on a minute that's a hard to swallow "

Of course my favorite hit doing the rounds extensively was Yingluck was in fact Thaksin's daughter. That cropped up on many an occasion.

[firestar]

Impossible. But this anti foreign sentiment I don't like one bit. The sheeple lap it up.

One of the protest leaders on the 12th of Jan said the following (reported by foreign journalists, Twitter and BP) :

12:45 at Asoke protest stage, media personality Seri Wongmontha veers into anti-foreigner rant. "Do they think we're stupid?" (Cont'd)

"It's proven ppl w/ yellow skin are smarter than ppl w/ white skin... Thais who study abroad get better marks than their classmates."

Expand

"They think they're better than us." This rant was inspired by an interview w/ a farang journalist this morning. Guess it went poorly?

Expand

I wonder why attacks directly aimed at our Farang community are not reported by MCOT, ThaiPBS, The Nation...

Edited January 21, 2014 by firestar

[Thai at Heart]

Impossible. But this anti foreign sentiment I don't like one bit. The sheeple lap it up.

One of the protest leaders on the 12th of Jan said the following (reported by foreign journalists, Twitter and BP) :

12:45 at Asoke protest stage, media personality Seri Wongmontha veers into anti-foreigner rant. "Do they think we're stupid?" (Cont'd)

"It's proven ppl w/ yellow skin are smarter than ppl w/ white skin... Thais who study abroad get better marks than their classmates."

Expand

"They think they're better than us." This rant was inspired by an interview w/ a farang journalist this morning. Guess it went poorly?

Expand

I wonder why attacks directly aimed at our Farang community are not reported by MCOT, ThaiPBS, The Nation...

Meanwhile there is michael yon running around about how principled, warm and cuddly these protesters are. Of course ptp have bought BBC, but he is beyond reproach

[firestar]

Impossible. But this anti foreign sentiment I don't like one bit. The sheeple lap it up.

One of the protest leaders on the 12th of Jan said the following (reported by foreign journalists, Twitter and BP) :

12:45 at Asoke protest stage, media personality Seri Wongmontha veers into anti-foreigner rant. "Do they think we're stupid?" (Cont'd)

"It's proven ppl w/ yellow skin are smarter than ppl w/ white skin... Thais who study abroad get better marks than their classmates."

Expand

"They think they're better than us." This rant was inspired by an interview w/ a farang journalist this morning. Guess it went poorly?

Expand

I wonder why attacks directly aimed at our Farang community are not reported by MCOT, ThaiPBS, The Nation...

Meanwhile there is michael yon running around about how principled, warm and cuddly these protesters are. Of course ptp have bought BBC, but he is beyond reproach

Also I am not criticizing Moderators, it would be against forum rules and they've been doing a great job but I am a little puzzled by the "editorial Line".

Kasit (Abhisit's ex foreign minister) telling japanese journalists "foreign entities should shut their comments"[sic] doesn't get published but a letter from PricessNobody does? hmmm....

Edited January 21, 2014 by firestar

[Smokemachine]

I guess many Thais want is a new start for Thailand, a optimistic future for their future generations. Getting clear of corruption is the biggest challenge.

They are sick of the corrupted people like this guy in the video.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=494220893947700&set=vb.372055249497599&type=2&theater

[ianf]

Michael Turner will have a chuckle after reading that nonsense.

Poor old Vanina Sucharitkul hasn't a clue in the slightest what democacy means.

There are none so blind as those that refuse to see. Moonao - you say that Khun VS hasn't a clue "in the slightest what democacy (sic) means". It appears that this is true of you as you cannot even spell the word 'democracy'. What Khun VS has listed in his letter are facts. Proven facts. This is exactly what has happened under Thaksin's watch. Those of us who have spent a lifetime of concern about human rights in the world despair at would-be dictators like Thaksin and people like the supporters here who just don't get it. Thaksin is a very dangerous man and the hold he has on his acolytes increases that danger. All I can say is look to the future - because if the demagogue Shins win the current power play then I believe that Thailand is doomed and will be seriously damaged in the same manner as the despots who ran (run?) Burma have damaged their own country and the lives of their good citizens. To deny the facts in Khun VS letter, Moonao, displays a total lack of humanity.

[Thai at Heart]

Impossible. But this anti foreign sentiment I don't like one bit. The sheeple lap it up.

One of the protest leaders on the 12th of Jan said the following (reported by foreign journalists, Twitter and BP) :

12:45 at Asoke protest stage, media personality Seri Wongmontha veers into anti-foreigner rant. "Do they think we're stupid?" (Cont'd)

"It's proven ppl w/ yellow skin are smarter than ppl w/ white skin... Thais who study abroad get better marks than their classmates."

Expand

"They think they're better than us." This rant was inspired by an interview w/ a farang journalist this morning. Guess it went poorly?

Expand

I wonder why attacks directly aimed at our Farang community are not reported by MCOT, ThaiPBS, The Nation...

Meanwhile there is michael yon running around about how principled, warm and cuddly these protesters are. Of course ptp have bought BBC, but he is beyond reproach

Also I am not criticizing Moderators, it would be against forum rules and they've been doing a great job but I am a little puzzled by the "editorial Line".

Kasit (Abhisit's ex foreign minister) telling japanese journalists "foreign entities should shut their comments"[sic] doesn't get published but a letter from PricessNobody does? hmmm....

Really. Where did he say that.

And this bloke was once foreign minister. Diplomatic to a t. What is this weird obsession with telling the press to shut up. In reality who cares.

It shows they don't like to be told that the empower has no clothes. I.e. Suthep is a hypocrite.

[firestar]

I guess many Thais want is a new start for Thailand, a optimistic future for their future generations. Getting clear of corruption is the biggest challenge.

They are sick of the corrupted people like this guy in the video.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=494220893947700&set=vb.372055249497599&type=2&theater

Of course they do. Which is why they are cheering a man whose own corruption brought down a whole government when Thaksin was still a nobody

[tx22cb]

Impossible. But this anti foreign sentiment I don't like one bit. The sheeple lap it up.

One of the protest leaders on the 12th of Jan said the following (reported by foreign journalists, Twitter and BP) :

12:45 at Asoke protest stage, media personality Seri Wongmontha veers into anti-foreigner rant. "Do they think we're stupid?" (Cont'd)

"It's proven ppl w/ yellow skin are smarter than ppl w/ white skin... Thais who study abroad get better marks than their classmates."

Expand

"They think they're better than us." This rant was inspired by an interview w/ a farang journalist this morning. Guess it went poorly?

Expand

I wonder why attacks directly aimed at our Farang community are not reported by MCOT, ThaiPBS, The Nation...

Is this the same Dr Seri who said "300,000 votes in Bangkok are votes of quality and are better than 15,000,000 votes in the provinces which lack quality"?

"It's proven ppl w/ yellow skin are smarter than ppl w/ white skin" - let's see the proof. Racist.

"Thais who study abroad get better marks than their classmates" - that's absurd. perhaps it's because his Thais attend 3rd rate universities overseas to study for 1-year Masters Degrees. If their classmates are so much dumber, why don't they apply to better universities - or, better still, get their degrees from Thai Universities?

I've never met him, but he sounds ignorant and his comments are cringe-worthy. Perhaps he had a touch of PMS that day?

[Smokemachine]

I guess many Thais want is a new start for Thailand, a optimistic future for their future generations. Getting clear of corruption is the biggest challenge.

They are sick of the corrupted people like this guy in the video.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=494220893947700&set=vb.372055249497599&type=2&theater

Of course they do. Which is why they are cheering a man whose own corruption brought down a whole government when Thaksin was still a nobody

Why not you ask Thaksin to come back to Thailand to show Thai people that he do still care for them. He also want to put a stop to corruption for everybody including himself.

People will like him back.

Most of the thai people are kind hearted by nature. They willing to give people a 2nd chance for repent. 2 decades is a quite long time, they has seen the changes and contributions and feel that this old man deserves a 2nd chance and he is willing to prove it.

Likewise, I believe many people will love him again if Thaksin willing to come back and do his duty for the nation.

[Thai at Heart]

I guess many Thais want is a new start for Thailand, a optimistic future for their future generations. Getting clear of corruption is the biggest challenge.

They are sick of the corrupted people like this guy in the video.

Of course they do. Which is why they are cheering a man whose own corruption brought down a whole government when Thaksin was still a nobody

Why not you ask Thaksin to come back to Thailand to show Thai people that he do still care for them. He also want to put a stop to corruption for everybody including himself.

People will like him back.

Most of the thai people are kind hearted by nature. They willing to give people a 2nd chance for repent. 2 decades is a quite long time, they has seen the changes and contributions and feel that this old man deserves a 2nd chance and he is willing to prove it.

Likewise, I believe many people will love him again if Thaksin willing to come back and do his duty for the nation.

Is it possible to be anti thaksin, anti corruption but pro-democrwcy.

Is there any other way to rid the country of this scourge of thaksin, without resorting to suspending democracy?

[ianf]

Vanina Sucharitkul wants democracy and yet finds it difficult to accept the popular vote outcome when his side (the Democrats) lose an election.

Instead, of long hours spent writing stories like this one Vanina needs to think of 'clever ways' to win back the Northern vote. I am equally keen to be rid of both Pheu Thai (and maybe even the old Democrats) but I know that it needs to happen in the democracy-space ie: the ballot box. It happens with a war-of-ideas and not a pointless war-of-words or by paralyzing Bangkok/provinces. Today the Democrats sound like a sour loser & a spoiler. Vanina Sucharitkul you are a supposed professional. Maybe you can try to act and sound like one, instead of coming across like a party hack.

Also - being both "American and Thai" is hardly a qualification like you make it sound. I too could boast of having dual (even triple) nationality but it does'nt mean a thing unless we sound like well-bred, neutral & trusted umpires rather than a self-absorbed player.

Sadly 'clever ideas' is not something Vanina is good at.

Back room dealing, fighting it out in the courts and finally taking to the streets when all else fails is a Vanina forte and so we must ignore his self-serving rants.

You miss the point entirely Mr SparklingCascades. It is not about who wins or loses an election. It is about how Democracy is served. After all, many despots have won elections, sometimes with 100%. That doesn't make it democratic. Having a fugitive from justice, a wanted criminal on the run, a human rights abuser (etc etc etc) running the country from Dubai is hardly Democracy. How would this go down in the USA, the UK, France, Japan, Australia (etc)? I don't think it would be possible.

[firestar]

Is this the same Dr Seri who said "300,000 votes in Bangkok are votes of quality and are better than 15,000,000 votes in the provinces which lack quality"?

"It's proven ppl w/ yellow skin are smarter than ppl w/ white skin" - let's see the proof. Racist.

"Thais who study abroad get better marks than their classmates" - that's absurd. perhaps it's because his Thais attend 3rd rate universities overseas to study for 1-year Masters Degrees. If their classmates are so much dumber, why don't they apply to better universities - or, better still, get their degrees from Thai Universities?

I've never met him, but he sounds ignorant and his comments are cringe-worthy. Perhaps he had a touch of PMS that day?

Yes, the same yellow shirt darling Dr Seri. I wonder if the Farang protesters being interviewed by Reuters at the time knew they where being called "not as smart as yellow skinned people" on stage

[Thai at Heart]

Is this the same Dr Seri who said "300,000 votes in Bangkok are votes of quality and are better than 15,000,000 votes in the provinces which lack quality"?

"It's proven ppl w/ yellow skin are smarter than ppl w/ white skin" - let's see the proof. Racist.

"Thais who study abroad get better marks than their classmates" - that's absurd. perhaps it's because his Thais attend 3rd rate universities overseas to study for 1-year Masters Degrees. If their classmates are so much dumber, why don't they apply to better universities - or, better still, get their degrees from Thai Universities?

I've never met him, but he sounds ignorant and his comments are cringe-worthy. Perhaps he had a touch of PMS that day?

Yes, the same yellow shirt darling Dr Seri. I wonder if the Farang protesters being interviewed by Reuters at the time knew they where being called "not as smart as yellow skinned people" on stage

Oooooh. Quotes please. Please oh please.

[Snig27]

Vanina Sucharitkul wants democracy and yet finds it difficult to accept the popular vote outcome when his side (the Democrats) lose an election.

Instead, of long hours spent writing stories like this one Vanina needs to think of 'clever ways' to win back the Northern vote. I am equally keen to be rid of both Pheu Thai (and maybe even the old Democrats) but I know that it needs to happen in the democracy-space ie: the ballot box. It happens with a war-of-ideas and not a pointless war-of-words or by paralyzing Bangkok/provinces. Today the Democrats sound like a sour loser & a spoiler. Vanina Sucharitkul you are a supposed professional. Maybe you can try to act and sound like one, instead of coming across like a party hack.

Also - being both "American and Thai" is hardly a qualification like you make it sound. I too could boast of having dual (even triple) nationality but it does'nt mean a thing unless we sound like well-bred, neutral & trusted umpires rather than a self-absorbed player.

Sadly 'clever ideas' is not something Vanina is good at.

Back room dealing, fighting it out in the courts and finally taking to the streets when all else fails is a Vanina forte and so we must ignore his self-serving rants.

You miss the point entirely Mr SparklingCascades. It is not about who wins or loses an election. It is about how Democracy is served. After all, many despots have won elections, sometimes with 100%. That doesn't make it democratic. Having a fugitive from justice, a wanted criminal on the run, a human rights abuser (etc etc etc) running the country from Dubai is hardly Democracy. How would this go down in the USA, the UK, France, Japan, Australia (etc)? I don't think it would be possible.

"Don't think it would be possible" really applies to your "running the country from Dubai " line surely. The notion so beloved by the mob that Thaksin is running Thailand from Dubai is so logically absurd it should not have to be rebuffed over and over again. If you have any experience of multi-nationals you'd understand that this concept simply doesn't run. You can't run a small branch office from a distant country let alone run the whole of Thailand.

Why is rational thought such a distant friend in these conversations? The surreal and fact twisting nature of so much of what the protesters claim as fact is quite a feature of this movement. Even much of the corruption talk when applied to Thaksin is fact free. Attack the man for what he has done - using solid facts - but don't flay around fantasy and frenzied crowd memes that have grown to be fact simply because they've been repeated enough. Many of the so called "proven facts" in this lawyer's letter are exactly that.

For an example, have a look at the actual history of the 2500 or so 'drug dealer' deaths. There's no doubt that Thaksin bears a burden for that, but so do so many of the people on that stage including the divine leader. It's far more complex than the rants would have you believe.

Edited January 21, 2014 by metisdead

[Smokemachine]

I guess many Thais want is a new start for Thailand, a optimistic future for their future generations. Getting clear of corruption is the biggest challenge.

They are sick of the corrupted people like this guy in the video.

Of course they do. Which is why they are cheering a man whose own corruption brought down a whole government when Thaksin was still a nobody

Why not you ask Thaksin to come back to Thailand to show Thai people that he do still care for them. He also want to put a stop to corruption for everybody including himself.

People will like him back.

Most of the thai people are kind hearted by nature. They willing to give people a 2nd chance for repent. 2 decades is a quite long time, they has seen the changes and contributions and feel that this old man deserves a 2nd chance and he is willing to prove it.

Likewise, I believe many people will love him again if Thaksin willing to come back and do his duty for the nation.

Is it possible to be anti thaksin, anti corruption but pro-democrwcy.

Is there any other way to rid the country of this scourge of thaksin, without resorting to suspending democracy?

If you understand how the whole TS regime works, you will know that in order to have a more flawess democracy, you need to break up the current "democracy" first and build up a stronger system which deliver a truly democracy. That why many people are requesting for reform first, but of course YL govt will never want it to happen at all. As everybody are clear once this reform takes place, all the dirty works will going to be close up by the new rules and regulations. it is not a full proof plan but it definitely make it much much harder for any elected party to implement any corrupt schemes, vote rigging, foul plays. There are people who have concerns with Suthep. If they worry, all the more they need to come out and work out together with the reform plan. Make sure it doesn't benefit any party at all. This is the time for Thailand to have a new start. Everything has a beginning. Start now better than no start. Thai people are already tired, they are sick of the red and yellow crap. Even now some of the Issan folks also know who is the real causes of all these problems. The other day BP article also mentioned The Issan people may consider voting for DP if they have any good policies. But of course the policies should always benefit the whole nation and not some particularly provinces.

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Vanina Sucharitkul wants democracy and yet finds it difficult to accept the popular vote outcome when his side (the Democrats) lose an election.

Instead, of long hours spent writing stories like this one Vanina needs to think of 'clever ways' to win back the Northern vote. I am equally keen to be rid of both Pheu Thai (and maybe even the old Democrats) but I know that it needs to happen in the democracy-space ie: the ballot box. It happens with a war-of-ideas and not a pointless war-of-words or by paralyzing Bangkok/provinces. Today the Democrats sound like a sour loser & a spoiler. Vanina Sucharitkul you are a supposed professional. Maybe you can try to act and sound like one, instead of coming across like a party hack.

Also - being both "American and Thai" is hardly a qualification like you make it sound. I too could boast of having dual (even triple) nationality but it does'nt mean a thing unless we sound like well-bred, neutral & trusted umpires rather than a self-absorbed player.

Sadly 'clever ideas' is not something Vanina is good at.

Back room dealing, fighting it out in the courts and finally taking to the streets when all else fails is a Vanina forte and so we must ignore his self-serving rants.

You miss the point entirely Mr SparklingCascades. It is not about who wins or loses an election. It is about how Democracy is served. After all, many despots have won elections, sometimes with 100%. That doesn't make it democratic. Having a fugitive from justice, a wanted criminal on the run, a human rights abuser (etc etc etc) running the country from Dubai is hardly Democracy. How would this go down in the USA, the UK, France, Japan, Australia (etc)? I don't think it would be possible.

First of all: Thailand was never, is not and probably will never be a democracy.

Having said that: the 2010 elections were as free, equal and democratic as they can get, in Thailand.

(you could say: the best elections, that money can buy!)

The Democrats (on numerous occasions) themselves got out and said, that they spent even more money on vote- buying than Thaksin did.

So what is the point?

In these elections, flawed as they may have been, PTP won ( and I really didn't care, if it was landslide or what not) and got enough voted to form a government...and that is it!

It is- by the way- not about how democracy is served!

It is about how democratic the whole country is!

The answer is: not one bit!