Stickmanbangkok Article Makes My Stomach Turn

[Griffin]

Thanks ChanChao, I remember seeing my girlfriend's card and it seems to be all in Thai. It is very old though. Maybe the newer ones are more international friendly.

I'll take a look later.

Ho-Hum

[GuestHouse]

Now, if by "sex with minors" you mean paying for sex

No, I mean ANY sex with minors, and I would define a minor on the basis of the age of consent in Thailand (since this is the Thai forum) AND the age of consent in the country of origin of the foreigner, where that country sees fit to enact laws governing the behaviour of its citizens overseas.

I certainly support the passing of such laws.

But don't miss my first point.

If what attracts you to Thailand is the climate/food/culture/life style etc then it is highly unlikely that this issue is of any concern.

If on the other hand you come to Thailand for sex with young people, then yes I can see why you don't like these laws.

As for the argument 'She/He acted older, looked older, was being paid etc'.

The basis of these laws is to protect Children, as minors they are not legally competent, as an adult you are legally competent and under the law legally accountable.

[Ulysses G.]

Do not try to tie the age of consent to paying for sex with a minor. It's not the same thing. You cannot use it to justify such actions.

I agree with most of what you have to say, but I guess that you think that prostitution should be completely prohibited. Otherwise, if one is legally able to consent to sex, how could selling one's body be forbidden?

[Ulysses G.]

My personal opinion is that if the girl is mature physically, mentally, and emotionally, then there's nothing wrong with her getting married provided that's what she wants and her parents agree if she's not yet an adult. Thailand and SEA is not a western culture and we sometimes need to look at things from their perspective.

When many of our parents were young, it was fairly common to get married around the age of 16 in the West.

Let's not get "culture" and recent trends mixed up.

[britmaveric]

To be completely honest I can't judge ages on Thai people. A mate of mine pulled a bird and I swore up/down she was under 18. Funny bit is she showed me her id and she was older than me: 41.

[skylar]

or how about the ~25 year-olds that you think are still teenagers who are actually ~25?

My partner and I always find ourselves in this situation. We are both nearly 25, yet both look young and both young and older people always tell us we look 16/17/18... I guess it's not as bad because we do look similar in age and have similar stature... and then these same people tell us we don't *act* the age we look... well I jolly well hope we don't! Maybe it's why they question us in the first place, because our looks and behaviour aren't consistent with their expectations.

I'll be laughing in 20 years' time for now though, I am not as amused.

[Phil Conners]

well strangely ... all numbers above 9 have the numbers 1-10 in them ....

remembering what to subtract from 2549 aint that big of an issue either

Doesn't help you if they borrowed their "sisters" ID card (happens all the time).

[Ulysses G.]

well strangely ... all numbers above 9 have the numbers 1-10 in them ....

remembering what to subtract from 2549 aint that big of an issue either

Doesn't help you if they borrowed their "sisters" ID card (happens all the time).

Since the pictures on their IDs never look like them, and often aren't them, IDs don't help much either.

[britmaveric]

well strangely ... all numbers above 9 have the numbers 1-10 in them ....

remembering what to subtract from 2549 aint that big of an issue either

Doesn't help you if they borrowed their "sisters" ID card (happens all the time).

Since the pictures on their IDs never look like them, and often aren't them, IDs don't help much either.

I'd have to agree with UG on this - rather dubious all the way round when you think about it.

[leftcross]

it's a difficult subject, especially when people start throwing certain words around.

it's becomes a real grey area if you are out having a few beers in a naughty bar and the bar is employing girls who are not legal. i think the common assumption is that they must be legal if they work in that kind of bar. it seems this is not true.

just be careful out there.

[libya 115]

These posts tell a great deal. Some are trying to defend 'accidental' sex with 'underage' girls, some are very critical of anything near it.

Both camps are to be dismissed. I believe no man. There are many men here in Thailand who seek out carnal knowledge with young girls, there are some men who do not. There is no 'in-between'.

I won't judge anyone. But the sickness of sexual deviation is very common in Thailand.

Every man likes a jump. But within reason.

[robitusson]

In Thailand girls look like boys

??? I don't think so.

[markuk]

i thought the article was certainly food for thought

i dont agree with the underage issue and anyone who does that deserves everything they get, but thats my opinion - still it is scary to think that you could be found in the wrong place at the wrong time but then i dont get into those situations.

If someone is caught in that situation then can they honestly say they are squeeky clean???

[seonai]

Hi. I can say from my own experience of living in Thailand for 15 years that a lot (so don't go getting crazy) of men who come to live here and especially Thai men, prefer very young Thai women. I am not going to say anything else. I find this habit very offensive, it carries on habits of the old and really makes these young women look like nothing other than men's playthings - they deserve more respect.

[OZONE]

Why should being caught having sex with an underage person (Child) worry people who on another day go to great lengths to tell us they are in Thailand for the Culture/Climate/Food/Quality of Life etc?

Sex with minors is a dispicable crime and I have zero sympathy with those caught or with any argument they might employ to mitigate their action.

Here Here! This Chang is for you

I can't agree more and I hope someday the Thai gov't will crack down and punish all who has zero conscience.

[britmaveric]

Why should being caught having sex with an underage person (Child) worry people who on another day go to great lengths to tell us they are in Thailand for the Culture/Climate/Food/Quality of Life etc?

Sex with minors is a dispicable crime and I have zero sympathy with those caught or with any argument they might employ to mitigate their action.

Here Here! This Chang is for you

I can't agree more and I hope someday the Thai gov't will crack down and punish all who has zero conscience.

Last I checked they do - well those that are ratted out because they pissed of their neighbours.

[meom]

I won't judge anyone. But the sickness of sexual deviation is very common in Thailand.

It goes so far that these days because of the international crackdown on underage sex women that look young but are in fact over 21 are given fake id cards and together with their looks use that to attract men that are interested in under age sex.

There was a case a while back in Filipines where a man got caught having sex with an underaged girl but on further investigation it turn out to be a scam.

I guess the guy had the wrong intention and should be shot but I don't know how the law deals with that. It's like getting caught buying heroin and then it turn out the heroin is actualy sugar so what crime has been committed?

[opothai]

when first i los, i saw a girl from a bar she was 29 in soi 8, she introduced me to her fellow worker who was 17 at the time, but she had been working in the very same bar for 2.5 years, and believe me she did look past 18.

she spoke excellent english was a good laugh and bawdy.

i do believe in the prosecution of peodo's however i could see from this that it would be easy to get caught with an under 18 through no fault of your own, [ she also had a perfect id card ]

not an easy topic

as was mentioned earlier be very very careful

[lowerlakeside]

My wife is petite, (145cm short!) and, until her recent pregnancy, weighed about 33kg. Many people think she is under 18, and I get some looks for being a dirty old man etc. But she is actually 29 years old and now has 2 children. So looks can be VERY deceiving!!

[backflip]

Somewhere, this thread has taken a dangerous turn. Perhaps it should be retitled "Pedophile's Repose". The same guys who decry Gary Glitter's assault on Vietnamese children, are now posting why they think it's OK to sleep with Thai children. The most popular excuse seems to be "well, duh, they consented to have sex with me". A child is not old enough to give his or her consent, and that's why they refer to a certain birthday as the "age of consent". As adults, you're supposed to protect children, not exploit them.

[Soju]

Do not try to tie the age of consent to paying for sex with a minor. It's not the same thing. You cannot use it to justify such actions.

I agree with most of what you have to say, but I guess that you think that prostitution should be completely prohibited. Otherwise, if one is legally able to consent to sex, how could selling one's body be forbidden?

No, I don't think that prostitution should necessarily be completely prohibited. I don't really care either way as I don't use those services. Saying that if one can consent to sex then they should be able to sell their body just doesn't make sense to me. You don't see the difference between a young girl marrying someone out of love and with her parent's consent vs. a young girl desperate for money and who turns to sell her body to many different men? Allowing a young girl to marry with her parent's consent is certainly not without it's pitfalls. Certainly some parents will be eager for their daughter to marry someone for financial gain, and certainly there will be some cases of abuse by the husband. But hopefully this is not the norm. Under a normal situation, a girl marrying at a young age is in love with the man she's marrying, the parents care for their daughter and want what's best for her, and the girl's husband will love her, take care of her and not abuse her. Contrast that with a child prostitute who is forced into the situation against her will, perhaps by unloving parents, or perhaps having been kidnapped, or for some other reason beyond her control. By sleeping with so many different men she has permanent irreversible psychological damage and has basically destroyed her life in exchange for making money.

The age of consent laws are written requiring these young girls to get the approval of their parents before entering into a marriage because if they are loving parents they will be looking out for the good of their child and only permit her to marry if they believe she is mature enough. No loving parent would ever allow their child to become a prostitute. Nobody is looking out for this child to determine if truly they are mature enough to be making a decision to sell their body. In the case of marriage, the man and woman have a long enough time to get to know each other and determine if they are meant to be and if they are both mature enough and ready to make the decision. In the case of prostitution, the man comes in, takes one look at the girl and pays his money without ever making any determination of how mature emotionally the girl is.

I do not say that every girl under the age of 18 involved in prostitution is not mature enough to be making her own decision to sell her body and is doing so on her own free will. Certainly there are some in this situation. But I would guess that the vast majority of them are not mature enough and/or have been forced into their situation against their will.

How anyone can live with themselves after paying for sex with a young girl they don't even know is beyond me. For the life of me I cannot see how you can think that marrying a 16 year old or paying to have sex with a 16 year old is the same thing.

[Soju]

My personal opinion is that if the girl is mature physically, mentally, and emotionally, then there's nothing wrong with her getting married provided that's what she wants and her parents agree if she's not yet an adult. Thailand and SEA is not a western culture and we sometimes need to look at things from their perspective.

When many of our parents were young, it was fairly common to get married around the age of 16 in the West.

Let's not get "culture" and recent trends mixed up.

I guess we differ in what our definition of "culture" and "recent trend". For me, a recent trend is where some change can be measured but there isn't enough time to determine if the change will continue or be lasting. IMHO, the increase in the marrying age has gone on far to long to be called a "recent trend", but if you see it differently then I can't complain as I don't really see that it makes much difference either way.

The important thing is whether the child was brought up in a home and in a culture where early marriages were the norm and thus the child was prepared and able to mature more quickly to the point of being ready for marriage. If a child comes from such a culture and is mature enough, then I don't have a problem with someone 13 years old getting married. Such young marriages have been common in the history of man. But if the child comes from a culture and a home where this is not the norm, and is not prepared and mature enough for marriage at this age, then such a marriage should not be permitted. So even though someone's parents may have come from a culture where marrying early was the norm, if they raise their own children in a different manner or culture, then it doesn't necessarily follow that their children should also be able to marry at such a young age.

[elGrande]

First time I came to Tland I was banging this old broad and she turned out to be 15.

[chanchao]

> The same guys who decry Gary Glitter's assault on Vietnamese children,

> are now posting why they think it's OK to sleep with Thai children.

I think that's a malicious misreprentation of the discussion here.

Please keep it respectful towards other forum members.

Thank you.

[Ulysses G.]

Somewhere, this thread has taken a dangerous turn. Perhaps it should be retitled "Pedophile's Repose". The same guys who decry Gary Glitter's assault on Vietnamese children, are now posting why they think it's OK to sleep with Thai children. The most popular excuse seems to be "well, duh, they consented to have sex with me". A child is not old enough to give his or her consent, and that's why they refer to a certain birthday as the "age of consent".

Where do you see anyone defending pedophiles? Pedophiles have sex with young children who have not reached puberty and we are talking about young adults between the ages of 15-18.

Young adults who have already reached the legal age of consent if prostitution is not involved.

Please learn something about a subject before you start raving.

[Donz]

16-17 is still too young, I believe maybe sometimes you can get fooled, but I would always ask there age before hand if they looked young.

I believe any man who sleeps with a girl under 18 has problems.

Its no way ok to sleep with a 15-17 year old IMO.

Thats just sick

[Ulysses G.]

16-17 is still too young, I believe maybe sometimes you can get fooled, but I would always ask there age before hand if they looked young.

I believe any man who sleeps with a girl under 18 has problems.

Its no way ok to sleep with a 15-17 year old IMO.

Thats just sick

Why is modern western society so messed up about its attitudes to sexual desire?

Research in many countries over many years has determined that men and boys find the most attractive women are those aged 17. In many countries and states depicting such young women naked or in sexually suggestive ways is actually a serious criminal offence. The law has made normal healthy sexual desire, literally the most common form of sexual desire, into a perversion and a sex crime. This cannot possibly be a good or healthy state of affairs.

If you want to kill a dragon or fight a demon you have to know where they live, what they do and what they like. Simply fearing and hating them is not going to be much use.

Paedophiles, sex monsters, rapists and predatory sleaze-balls are a problem and need to be tackled and counteracted. But we can never successfully fight any enemy who we refuse to understand. It does no good for the fight against sex crimes to pretend that real men are never sexually attracted to teenagers any more than it helps to pretend only bank robbers want to have more money.

The most desirable mate for any male is, always has been and always will be a bright, fit and healthy teenage virgin who has just passed through puberty and research suggests that this normally equates to the age of about 17.

At the risk of being cruicified, I Googled this up after entering, "sex, optimum age".

I would guess that this guy would say that you are the sick one, but I don't expect that you would agree.

[Chang_paarp]

Getting back to the topic of the thread.

My reading of Stickman's collum was, he was putting a cautionary tale out for readers to be aware of. I saw no condoning of underage sex, just a peice that stated the law as he understands it and some tales of where it was being bent and broken. He pointed out that some bar owners were knowingly employing underage staff while others were doing so unknowingly.

As a warning to Aussies there is a federal law that states anyone engaging in underage sex (by Aussie standards) any where in the world is liable to prosecution.

[LindsayBKK]

In Thailand girls look like boys

??? I don't think so.

Well you won't see much from your hotel room.

[StateSix]

I won't judge anyone. But the sickness of sexual deviation is very common in Thailand.

It goes so far that these days because of the international crackdown on underage sex women that look young but are in fact over 21 are given fake id cards and together with their looks use that to attract men that are interested in under age sex.

There was a case a while back in Filipines where a man got caught having sex with an underaged girl but on further investigation it turn out to be a scam.

I guess the guy had the wrong intention and should be shot but I don't know how the law deals with that. It's like getting caught buying heroin and then it turn out the heroin is actualy sugar so what crime has been committed?

Under UK law you can always be charged with attempting to commit an offence. For example the people who go around internet chat rooms trying to pick up underage kids are sometimes caught in sting operations. The person they are trying to pick up are adults, but the offender believes they are underage and so is guilty of attempting to incite a child in sexual activity/unlawful sex/meeting a child following sexual grooming, depending on how far they go.

In the case you mention above, I dont think the man could be charged with sex with a minor as the person involved isn't. However if he activley sought sex with that person, believing them to be underage then he may be guilty of the offences mentioned above, regardless of the womens actual age. The women involved could be charged with an attempt to incite a person to have unlawful sex.

Re the heroin that is really sugar, the dealer would still get charged with offering to supply a controlled substance if they intended the other person to believe it was heroin. The buyer could be charged with attempted possession of a controlled substance if he believed it was heroin (or possibly attempting to obtain a controlled substance, but I am unsure on that one)