Another one bites the dust...

[belg]

one police report in the UK, that you are beating her of mistreating the children, and with her socalled desease, it will be easy to manipulate the kids, and you are out of your house... owned or rented, you will pay the rent, allimony for her & the kids, etc...

divorce... half for her of yours everything + paying for your & her lawyer + court costs...

sometimes it is better to call it quits when ur wife is a syco ... no pills to cure that or even there is a cure, she will pretend she is not sick and will not take...

put her in jail, that is what she deserves ...

ask the kids if they want to live with daddy or not ...

who knows, a DNA test might be a good idea & might help you clear your brain ...

[wym]

OP, first my apologies for losing track, and on behalf of TV for the poor quality of responses you've been getting lately in the thread.

Any opinions on an idea suggested by a (non-forum) friend of mine?... go back to UK together as a family with the kids AND wife (she will definitely be up for that) and then divorce over there, or just let her drift away (which is inevitable if i go to live in the countryside away from the money/fun of london)... any thoughts?

100% ABSOLUTELY NOT, don't even think about it!

Can't believe you didn't pick up on this key factor from my previous posts, please do go back and review them in some more detail, feel free to ask followups.

The ONLY time you have ANY safety to be in the west with your kids (even without here being there) is AFTER you have established sole custody.

And sole custody under western rules is nothing like what it means in Thailand. Those jurisdictions give the natural mother all kinds of IMO unfair rights and advantages to rule your life and make you miserable and cost you more time energy and money than you can possibly imagine!!

The ONLY way to really have full protection is to have a Termination of Parental Rights executed in your home jurisdiction, and that has to take place AFTER you have the Thai sole custody awarded, documented, translated and registered there. Ideally some time, at least six months to a year, has passed with her showing no interest in the kids.

To make this easy you should get her consent to the TPR.

You need to negotiate this while you have little money - will probably still be enough for her.

The idea of my wife being on the back foot is hard to imagine. As of now she has not said sorry (even to her parents). Also I'm not sure it would be a good tactic with her as she has the potebtial to do something very crazy even if it hurts herself just as much. I will try to do it in a way that seems positive for her but with the most subtle hint that my way is the only way.

I just mean relative to later - she's just screwed you over big time and everyone knows it. You say she hasn't much money. She probably hasn't had time to line up a new sucker to sponsor her efforts yet either.

She'll never say sorry to anyone believe me, I'm sure has fully rationalized everything.

But she might at this stage be fearful of your being able to prove and prosecute.

No subtlety is not the way to go.

Put yourself in a position where she cannot hurt you any further, line up all your carrots and sticks and lay the hammer down quick.

Later on any threats will weaker and she may have gained resources.

Surely you can come up with a few thousand pounds? If that's not enough offer more, in the meantime get a ruthless custody lawyer and start preparing your case.

Shoot for having the whole thing settled in a month or two, six on the outside, nothing else should have a higher priority.

[wym]

I will just say this, The UK courts will not take kindly to your claim to custody as you have sent them to live with your inlaws. Only two people have rights to retain kids here in Thailand you and youur wife. I suggest picking up your children from the inlaws (Take a policeman with you if you wish) and looking after them youself.

WHAAAAT?

OP, where did I miss this, is this true?

If so absolutely, your parking the kids with her parents is an outright admission that you can't handle taking care of them, you're in effect de-facto giving her custody that way.

You might think her parents are "on your side" but don't rely on that. Who knows what's being put into your kids heads? REALLY, go get them back right now, hire a full-time nanny if you have to, but make sure the inlaws and your ex don't even know where they are living.

NOW!

If it isn't true, then never mind my apologies.

If it is, then I'm seriously questioning if you actually really want to keep your kids?

[brit1984]

^ yes the kids are with the in-laws and will remain so until i can afford accommodation and food (I've been staying with friends and being fed by my friends/business partners) and a new nanny (or my current dream for one of my family from uk to come to help) - i will obviously go to visit them as often as possible in the meantime and video call them regularly (actually the in-laws action this every few hours if I haven't done so already)

i know it sounds naive (and is contrary to everything ever written about Thai families on this forum) but the in-laws do really treat me as a son and i have much more of a relationship (and have had for the last few years) than my wife has ever had with them and I'm also much closer to my sister in law (and now most of my wife's friends, but that's beside the point) - although obviously (in the context of what has happened to me) i don't trust anyone 100% now and would prefer to have my kids together with me

however, as mentioned the lenders include most of my close friends/family already and the creditors include staff so there are lots of other "victims" with kids to take care and it would be wrong for me (and anyway my business partners would not allow me) to prioritize my kids over other kids (however painful that may be for me emotionally)

i think your posts have made clear to me the steps i need to take to make everything work and the timing you suggest (i.e. immediately) is indeed sensible but unfortunately it's just not possible yet, but you have at least focused my mind so that i have a clear picture what do now once i'm in a position to do it (and some extra motivation to reach that position faster)

thanks a lot

Edited January 29, 2014 by brit1984

[wym]

Well, you'll definitely need to have a working household set up caring for the kids for longer than they stayed with her parents, before you initiate any custody action. Don't worry so much about the financial side, they'll give farang benefit of the doubt there, as long as her family isn't rich.

My inlaws are the best as well, also much more supportive of me than the mother of my kids, in fact she was almost disinherited for leaving me.

Just from a legal POV you would be better off having your kids move in with ANYONE else, since legally you are giving her all kinds of ammunition to be much more likely to win a custody battle, every day her case gets stronger.

Do what you have to do, but don't let this continue any longer than you absolutely have to.

Personally I'd say - not shaft your partners - but prioritize your custody, just take longer to pay them back.

Top prioirty should be to pay her off for full custody ASAP.

Edited January 29, 2014 by wym

[SheungWan]

Sorry, for clarity on a few points...

Debts are mostly personal loans from mutual friends or people who I respect, hence why I will repay.

Our accountants were not responsible for handling cash / bank accounts, so it's not their fault. I trusted / allowed my wife to perform the treasury function, which was one of many stupid mistakes I made.

As my wife has not been paying rents, the landlords hold all the power and will support us to form new legal entities without my wife involved.

She has indeed defrauded the business, although sueing her would be pointless as we are quite sure she has already gambled away every baht but it remains an option for later.

My kids were living with us until this kicked off but they are better off with the in-laws until I get things under control, not least because the 20,000/month for the nanny is a luxury I cannot afford/justify right now.

After what has happened, I don't fully trust anyone (despite the in-laws appearing to be on my side) and am taking steps to protect my kids and secure custody of them, although my wife has never really bonded with them (I know that may be hard to imagine for anyone who has not met such a person).

Having Accountants that didn't warn you of large cash transactions,was no point in having them in the first place,and secondly,did you not look over,your Bank Statements? at least once a month?

I never looked at bank statements once in 4 years! I know that is stupid.

Actually the most shocking part of the whole story. You are running a business and have no interest in the figures over 4 years? Did the accountants not have to prepare annual accounts which had to be read and signed off?

[Kitsune]

It sounds like your wife has lost it.

She has been caught in a world of pretense and lies and reached the end of her lies.

Don't get me wrong, but, in a way it's a good thing she has no shame regarding the people she hurt.There have been some cases of pathological liars who end up killing their own family to avoid facing them with the truth.

Also, it is good for your kids to be away from her influence.

I think she needs therapy, big time.

Main thing, you have your health, your kids, and are ready for a fresh start!

Good luck with everything!

[brit1984]

Sorry, for clarity on a few points...

Debts are mostly personal loans from mutual friends or people who I respect, hence why I will repay.

Our accountants were not responsible for handling cash / bank accounts, so it's not their fault. I trusted / allowed my wife to perform the treasury function, which was one of many stupid mistakes I made.

As my wife has not been paying rents, the landlords hold all the power and will support us to form new legal entities without my wife involved.

She has indeed defrauded the business, although sueing her would be pointless as we are quite sure she has already gambled away every baht but it remains an option for later.

My kids were living with us until this kicked off but they are better off with the in-laws until I get things under control, not least because the 20,000/month for the nanny is a luxury I cannot afford/justify right now.

After what has happened, I don't fully trust anyone (despite the in-laws appearing to be on my side) and am taking steps to protect my kids and secure custody of them, although my wife has never really bonded with them (I know that may be hard to imagine for anyone who has not met such a person).

Having Accountants that didn't warn you of large cash transactions,was no point in having them in the first place,and secondly,did you not look over,your Bank Statements? at least once a month?

I never looked at bank statements once in 4 years! I know that is stupid.

Actually the most shocking part of the whole story. You are running a business and have no interest in the figures over 4 years? Did the accountants not have to prepare annual accounts which had to be read and signed off?

i have always been interested in the financial figures (but only really interested in historical figures to the extent that they guide my forecasts) but i never had any interest in checking bank statements (or any other back office type functions).

with regards to accountants preparing annual accounts, i think the leakage mainly happened over the second half of last year (i.e. within the same tax year) so the accountants (understandably) had not started checking figures for the year.

my ex-boss (going back a few years) had a saying "assumptions are the mother of all <deleted> ups" but it's only now i really understand - going forward i will check my assumptions or try to run my business / live with life in a way that requires less assumptions.

[brit1984]

It sounds like your wife has lost it.

She has been caught in a world of pretense and lies and reached the end of her lies.

Don't get me wrong, but, in a way it's a good thing she has no shame regarding the people she hurt.There have been some cases of pathological liars who end up killing their own family to avoid facing them with the truth.

Also, it is good for your kids to be away from her influence.

I think she needs therapy, big time.

Main thing, you have your health, your kids, and are ready for a fresh start!

Good luck with everything!

cheers for the support

unfortunately (for my wife and anyone she encounters in the future) i'm sure she has not reached the end of her lies - but luckily (for me and the others she has hurt) she should not be bringing any additional pain to us (except the pain of fixing the mess she left us)

indeed i have my health, although i look about 10 years older (and feel about 20 years older) than it says in my passport, and more importantly i have my kids, at least via video phone and occasional visits for now (and hopefully physically by my side soon)

thanks

[belg]

put

the

damn

stealing

beaaaatch

in

prison

where

she

belongs .............

[Kitsune]

put

the

dam_n

stealing

beaaaatch

in

prison

where

she

belongs .............

Easier said than done.

Try and find a cop who does not believe Brit1984's first and unforgivable mistake was to come to THL, let alone develop a successful business.

never underestimate the power of jalousy

[boisian]

really out of curiosity, i notice that you did have more than 3000 messages on tv, so here my question: Are you one of those members

who spent their times claiming how much their gf/wife is different, that she come from a good family, she is so honest, you can trust her with you life, she will never harm you, she is the best thing that did happen in your life, and she love you maak????!

(Well inspite of warning, the cultural gap, language barriere, difference of wealth, her family, etc etc)

Because if you are one of them, who spent his times to spread myths and <deleted> on tv, well in fact you might have fooled some other members, but the biggest victims is...you!

Now its time for some weeks holidays, and after to start to build back yourself, and dont run again in the same problems as it seems that some never learn.......

That is a very interesting post.

I'm one of the guys who didn't discover Thaivisa (or really know anything about Thailand) until AFTER I married my wife.

Now I would actually say my wife is very DIFFERENT because most Thai people are not evil monsters with NPD.

your wife is Different to most who are not evil NPDers? Damn, bad luck. Bet u wish you had known about TV

[boisian]

Sorry for your loss, but happy to hear that you seem to be learning from you past.

Two quotes I have lived by but still have gotten into a fair spot of trouble...

1) "I wouIdn't tie my shoes without a backup pIan" - David Mamet, screenplay writer

2) "If you want to stay a millionaire, never get married even if you have the best prenuptial agreement in the history of the world" - an LBO financier of the 1980s that will go unnamed.

God knows what and how many more difficulties I would have set myself up for had I not followed these words.

Hope these words help someone more than myself.

Looking at marrying tgf in a little while in Thailand.

Where do I go for a good pre-nuptual agreement?

Should it be in Thai or English?

Basically I have next to Nill assets now (recently divorced.... ) - will a prenup be of any use?

[boisian]

There are card games and illegal casinos everywhere in Thailand.

You should take a look around you more often.

Yes, I'm sure that's what you've heard. Me too. Have you actually been to one? Seen these girls with gambling addictions going at it?

yes

What sorts of card games do they play? How much are they playing for? Genuinely curious.

High Low, 1000 baht a flip

[boisian]

There are card games and illegal casinos everywhere in Thailand.

You should take a look around you more often.

Yes, I'm sure that's what you've heard. Me too. Have you actually been to one? Seen these girls with gambling addictions going at it?

yes

What sorts of card games do they play? How much are they playing for? Genuinely curious.

High Low. 1000 baht a flip.

[wym]

Looking at marrying tgf in a little while in Thailand.

Where do I go for a good pre-nuptual agreement?

Should it be in Thai or English?

You (would) need a good lawyer.

Basically I have next to Nill assets now (recently divorced.... ) - will a prenup be of any use?

Only reason would be if you expect to earn significant income or acquire significant assets while you are married, and plan to keep them in Thailand and let her know about them.

And your lady comes from a family wealthy enough to know about the law and to hire lawyers.

And you don't feel free to just do a midnight flit.

So all in all, probably not worth the trouble.

[fullur]

I too joined the club, was certain she was one thing (honest normal not sociopath), but here is the truth cut from emails to my brother, meant as a warning. Firstly I thought people on this forum were negative and racist against Thais.

I have done a 180 degree turn, were are just "rich cows" to be milked and despised...

They are actually taught "all Farangs somehow have unlimited money and are to be swindled if possible".

I tried to break up with girlfriend Mikky, and even after her 100s of promises, she tried to take me for

everything I have.(and she got a fair bit)

I really try not to blame myself too much (although a lot), because she also fooled four guys (and 1 woman) I trust a

lot, and have lived here for 20 years or more and speak Thai etc. You/I just can’t tell if they are lying.

It went from...

Ian (naive and gullible idiot)

Oh you seem like a nice girl with some problems, I’ll try and help you out of poverty, help you use your brain etc etc

“Oh your late husband dropped dead when you were so young and you got robbed, I will make sure

it can’t happen to you again coz I’m a nice guy etc etc”

Mikky (ethics free thief)

Stupid old bastard, while alive I’ll take him for whatever I can get, and if he dies,

I get the apartment, what a moron. I hope he dies soon, and maybe I can get that plane too!

(bit later)

Oh shit, he won’t have a baby with me and seems he wants to break up and just be friends.

I had better RAPE him for as much as possible.

Apparently all Thai's are the same, irrespective of where you meet them or education etc, apparently they do it to each other all the time.

I asked my pal, “How can she be so cruel after I paid for her mom's multiple operations,

her own monthly "salary", getting her a laptop and a scooter plus the trip to Aus etc etc etc etc?”

He says "right of passage if you try and live here. You won’t believe they can have no remorse or conscience

or basic honesty until you experience it”

I literally have known using heroin addicts that have far more ethics.

But you would/could never believe this unless you experience it.

It is soo far out of our Western values/beliefs. However Japanese are as honest as most, if not more honest than most.

(I lived in Japan over 10 years)

So it is not an Asian thing, it must just be a Thai thing (which I am hearing repeatedly).

On this

http://newsletter.thaivisa.com/sendy/w/F9n6ijPfw5zlC4rdEWrOeg/GqO7cTr5rscAtvOrMfwaig/bQ6QHXd0892KMVdACXaZ969g

You often read where some Western guy kills himself over being “seduced/robbed/swindled/humiliated” by some Thai girl.

I used to think ….

“what a whimp” or “must be really gullible” and “he is old enough to be her father, can’t he see

she is just in it for the money?” etc etc.

Other negative stories you hear, you think the guy must have been really gullible/stupid/greedy/sex addict or

whatever.

Now I think….

"Poor bastard, would never have even seen it coming, probably way too trusting a guy to live in Thailand.”

And can relate completely, many lose their life savings.

Happens a lot….guys fall in love, she takes him for everything, he kills himself.

The ironic thing is, I bet they all think “that will show her”, “she will be sorry now” etc. But the truth is she will not give a shit and simply wonder how she can gain from the death.

Thank God I never loved her, more of a sort of charity thing for me, we made it SUPER clear

and agreed that it was very likely a short relationship. (age etc, and she promised she was fine with that etc)

It still amazes me, the lack of conscience or even belief in Karma here (supposed to be Buddist).

It really is corrupt on soooo many levels.

I am way too much of a trusting guy to be here (perfect 20/20 hindsight!)

I have lived by this….

It is better to suffer wrong than to do it, and happier to be sometimes cheated than not to trust.

--Samuel Johnson

Works in most places but not sure it applies here. wanke_r should have said ….

In England, It is better to suffer wrong than to do it, and happier to be sometimes cheated than not to trust.

--Samuel Johnson ; )

The girl above cleaned out the safe of 16Bht gold, (been together 18 months and trusted her.) I even had a small aircraft (that must be in a Thai's name), bought on borrowed money (worth 1.5M Bht), in her name. She almost got that too!

I went to the Police and really fought it, as per an article posted here from the Phuket Gazette.

Got a bit of the gold back, about 15%, and made it really hard for her. Most guys just “roll over”

and do nothing due to the humiliation and depression etc. I had two physical brawls with them

and went to police etc. Got death threats so that is why I had to up security (cameras) for a while, (she said I get Mafia kill you) but all sorted now. (probably on to next victim)

I was so duped and trusting, I left her an apartment in my will when I found out she was a widow (Thai husband dropped dead at 58), when she was 26. I have since had the humiliation of changing it back, and felt the derision and

ridicule from some that warned me.

Anyway, I will survive, many don’t, especially if they were truly trying to help someone, and then get robbed.

It is worse to get raped by someone you are trying to help, rather than by a stranger.

So hard to believe, few believe it (like me) and so the system/scam/con-game goes on.

Not sure I want to live, knowing everyone is out to scam me, and is insanely good at it.

Your pals warn you, but you can’t see it until you are hurt….. BAD.

As it has been 100% proven, I am unable to tell if a Thai person is 100% honest or 100% evil.

(at the same time I almost got conned very badly by a Thai man I thought of as a friend)

For self protection, I must assume they are all out to totally scam me and must not be trusted.

I simply can't recognize the honest from the dishonest here.

I have read all the books like "Private dancer", have multiple Thai speaker friends that

were also fooled. I had been visiting for 10 years, and STILL I was 100% duped. Be VERY careful

out there guys, if you run into a sociopath, RUN, you can never win in combat, as they will do

what you will be unwilling to do.

TIPS

I hope this saves the next guys....

1) Put NOTHING in her name. If it can't go in your name, don't own it.

(this include iPads, phones, motorcycles etc. Keep the receipt if

you paid for it.)

2) Don't legally marry them, do the ceremony in their village if you must,

but not the paperwork. Thank God this witch was just my girlfriend and not my wife.

If wife, she gets half or more and you are screwed.

3) She was pushing for a kid, now I see how she could "own" me thru the kid.

Avoid pregnancies unless you are ok with being blackmailed thru the kid.

My 3 best friends have all been paying and paying for over 25 years and

all admit, if no kids, would have "kicked her to the curb" long ago.

Cheers,

Ian

PS Thai girls, WARNING Will Robinson WARNING!!!

Out of curiosity this "Mikky" you talk of, did she have a tattoo across her entire back?

Reason I ask is because I was in Phuket a few years back and new a girl called "Mickey" and I wonder if she's still hanging around Phuket after all this time as she isn't from there originally. In fact, I was wondering if I could find her (just curious, no romantic or even reuniting intentions) when I came across this post.

However, I must add that the Mickey I knew, despite being fairly crazy in many different ways (former drug dealer, etc), was a fairly decent person in most ways.

She did desperately want me to consider a meaningful relationship with her despite the fact that it was obvious to everyone that there wasn't much money to be made from me. I could provide a fairly luxurious life by thai standards but nothing in the way a lot of older or richer guys could have and she was even offered to make certain sacrifices of her own to pursue it. Through all the convincing and pleading she never tried anything underhanded. In fact, all her tactics I would say would have been fairly standard in most cultures. Feeling rejected after a row concerning my reluctance to take our fling more seriously she even blurted out something along the lines of "Whatever, my mother always told me love was stupid anyway, that I should marry for money!" Yet, she always came back and when I eventually did leave the country we parted on good terms.

But who knows, maybe she's gone on to rob older men blind, so.... did she have a large tattoo on her back?

[Scarpolo]

Thanks - that is really helpful advice. Your plan is a refined version of the basic plan I had in my mind, although I will wait until she needs my signature to remarry and trade for custody (rather than offering her more cash).

I will certainly try to cover all the bases back home in case either of us moves to a developed country (I suspect she has done so already actually, although I can't imagine she has a long-term visa) or in case Thailand becomes developed!

I'm on the same wavelength as you with regards to lacking interest in back-office/admin/treasury/etc and I'm know trying to remodel/grow my business in a way that minimizes the need for me to trust the people in these functions.

The reason I am feeling positive is that as well as all the business/money stuff, my wife also made by life living hell through verbal / emotional abuse and by cutting me off from my very loving family back home, with whom I can now reconnect.

Thanks, and of course it's your life, but from my experience:

Don't be proud about giving her money to get what you want, keep your focus on what's really important and try to keep your ego out of it.

IMO there's no way she'll give you what you want without any money at all unless you really play the hardest of hard ball plays like threatening her with arrest and jail time.

Don't forget she is the mother of your children and once you are sure you've protected yourself and them from her latent legal power to control your lives, it is in their interest (most important of all is the welfare of the kids) that you leave things open so they can have as good a relationship as possible with their natural birth mother, ideally spending time with her regularly.

I personally suspect that NOW is the time to move as aggressively as possible. Down the road she may well get more resources, advice confidence and self-justification to make things much more difficult and expensive for you.

Try to execute a complete and clean buyout ASAP.

Don't discount the dirty tricks that are so easy to do here, more so for the locals than we foreigners. And if she's a true sociopath she won't refrain from violence either.

If the OP is sincere in this assessment of how it all went down, I have only this to say,

"she is not yet thru with you brother, and you, are not preparing for more assaults"

[laolover88]

I have nothing to say about the money. However I do have some experience with the kids side of things.

I may have missed things but there one or two things I would be concerned about!

Where were you married? Was the marriage registered in Thailand and/or the UK? Do you have the marriage certificate?

Where were the children born? Do they have UK birth certificates?

Do the children have UK passports and/or Thai passports?

Q to the above..if not, why not?

You will find it quite difficult to establish sole custody in Thailand; but if you wish to stay here you must try!

It is not quite true to say that both parents in Thailand have the same custodial rights. As with the UK there willbe a tendency to favour the mother unless the father is Thai. Having said that most Thai courts would look

favourably on your position provided you are able to house, and provide for them.

Does she have contact with the kids?

Do you have copies of her ID card/Tabian Baan?

Do you know where she is?

Divorce her!

As one P said, if you want the kids get a ruthless custody and divorce lawyer. Not cheap but worth every penny

[brit1984]

I have nothing to say about the money. However I do have some experience with the kids side of things.

I may have missed things but there one or two things I would be concerned about!

Where were you married? Was the marriage registered in Thailand and/or the UK? Do you have the marriage certificate?

Where were the children born? Do they have UK birth certificates?

Do the children have UK passports and/or Thai passports?

Q to the above..if not, why not?

You will find it quite difficult to establish sole custody in Thailand; but if you wish to stay here you must try!

It is not quite true to say that both parents in Thailand have the same custodial rights. As with the UK there willbe a tendency to favour the mother unless the father is Thai. Having said that most Thai courts would look

favourably on your position provided you are able to house, and provide for them.

Does she have contact with the kids?

Do you have copies of her ID card/Tabian Baan?

Do you know where she is?

Divorce her!

As one P said, if you want the kids get a ruthless custody and divorce lawyer. Not cheap but worth every penny

Thanks for the good advice.

My wife is in another country (still in Asia) but she will have to move around until/if she finds a new guy so that she can get married and get a long-term visa (for now she is just taking advantage of whatever tourist visa / tourist exemptions are available for Thai citizens). I don't think she could safely return to Thailand any time soon unless she comes with a big pot of money (unlikely) and an apologetic attitude (impossible).

We married in Thailand (only). First kid was born in UK (has UK birth certificate + UK and Thai passport) and second kid was born in Thailand (has Thai birth certificate only + no passport yet). I will get the same for him when have some money. I don't think I have copies of my wife's ID/Tabian Baan but could ask from my in-laws anytime if necessary (probably have them saved somewhere in my computer/emails if I really search).

My wife isn't particularly interested in the kids except that she wants them to have a good future (without her having to contribute any time/effort). The kids are still with the in-laws up country but now my sister-in-law has bought a house in Bangkok, which is just being renovated/redecorated then we can move in there together with the kids in a month or so, as an interim step until I can support them myself (or maybe longer term if it works well).

My wife's family have been very supportive through all this (and in the past) and their preference is that I do not divorce my wife and wait until she divorces me. Anyway, I have no choice as divorce would be expensive and I really have no money and too much debt to credibly ask anyone to lend any more, so the situation is less than ideal but I will try to make the best of it.

[laolover88]

I have nothing to say about the money. However I do have some experience with the kids side of things.

I may have missed things but there one or two things I would be concerned about!

Where were you married? Was the marriage registered in Thailand and/or the UK? Do you have the marriage certificate?

Where were the children born? Do they have UK birth certificates?

Do the children have UK passports and/or Thai passports?

Q to the above..if not, why not?

You will find it quite difficult to establish sole custody in Thailand; but if you wish to stay here you must try!

It is not quite true to say that both parents in Thailand have the same custodial rights. As with the UK there willbe a tendency to favour the mother unless the father is Thai. Having said that most Thai courts would look

favourably on your position provided you are able to house, and provide for them.

Does she have contact with the kids?

Do you have copies of her ID card/Tabian Baan?

Do you know where she is?

Divorce her!

As one P said, if you want the kids get a ruthless custody and divorce lawyer. Not cheap but worth every penny

Thanks for the good advice.

My wife is in another country (still in Asia) but she will have to move around until/if she finds a new guy so that she can get married and get a long-term visa (for now she is just taking advantage of whatever tourist visa / tourist exemptions are available for Thai citizens). I don't think she could safely return to Thailand any time soon unless she comes with a big pot of money (unlikely) and an apologetic attitude (impossible).

We married in Thailand (only). First kid was born in UK (has UK birth certificate + UK and Thai passport) and second kid was born in Thailand (has Thai birth certificate only + no passport yet). I will get the same for him when have some money. I don't think I have copies of my wife's ID/Tabian Baan but could ask from my in-laws anytime if necessary (probably have them saved somewhere in my computer/emails if I really search).

My wife isn't particularly interested in the kids except that she wants them to have a good future (without her having to contribute any time/effort). The kids are still with the in-laws up country but now my sister-in-law has bought a house in Bangkok, which is just being renovated/redecorated then we can move in there together with the kids in a month or so, as an interim step until I can support them myself (or maybe longer term if it works well).

My wife's family have been very supportive through all this (and in the past) and their preference is that I do not divorce my wife and wait until she divorces me. Anyway, I have no choice as divorce would be expensive and I really have no money and too much debt to credibly ask anyone to lend any more, so the situation is less than ideal but I will try to make the best of it.

One thought: do you mean properly married?..paper from the UK embassy affirming freedom to marry, Thai translation and confirmation from Ministry of Foreign Affairs or 'informal' Thai Marriage? ++You must get the kids their

full documentation

[brit1984]

I have nothing to say about the money. However I do have some experience with the kids side of things.

I may have missed things but there one or two things I would be concerned about!

Where were you married? Was the marriage registered in Thailand and/or the UK? Do you have the marriage certificate?

Where were the children born? Do they have UK birth certificates?

Do the children have UK passports and/or Thai passports?

Q to the above..if not, why not?

You will find it quite difficult to establish sole custody in Thailand; but if you wish to stay here you must try!

It is not quite true to say that both parents in Thailand have the same custodial rights. As with the UK there willbe a tendency to favour the mother unless the father is Thai. Having said that most Thai courts would look

favourably on your position provided you are able to house, and provide for them.

Does she have contact with the kids?

Do you have copies of her ID card/Tabian Baan?

Do you know where she is?

Divorce her!

As one P said, if you want the kids get a ruthless custody and divorce lawyer. Not cheap but worth every penny

Thanks for the good advice.

My wife is in another country (still in Asia) but she will have to move around until/if she finds a new guy so that she can get married and get a long-term visa (for now she is just taking advantage of whatever tourist visa / tourist exemptions are available for Thai citizens). I don't think she could safely return to Thailand any time soon unless she comes with a big pot of money (unlikely) and an apologetic attitude (impossible).

We married in Thailand (only). First kid was born in UK (has UK birth certificate + UK and Thai passport) and second kid was born in Thailand (has Thai birth certificate only + no passport yet). I will get the same for him when have some money. I don't think I have copies of my wife's ID/Tabian Baan but could ask from my in-laws anytime if necessary (probably have them saved somewhere in my computer/emails if I really search).

My wife isn't particularly interested in the kids except that she wants them to have a good future (without her having to contribute any time/effort). The kids are still with the in-laws up country but now my sister-in-law has bought a house in Bangkok, which is just being renovated/redecorated then we can move in there together with the kids in a month or so, as an interim step until I can support them myself (or maybe longer term if it works well).

My wife's family have been very supportive through all this (and in the past) and their preference is that I do not divorce my wife and wait until she divorces me. Anyway, I have no choice as divorce would be expensive and I really have no money and too much debt to credibly ask anyone to lend any more, so the situation is less than ideal but I will try to make the best of it.

One thought: do you mean properly married?..paper from the UK embassy affirming freedom to marry, Thai translation and confirmation from Ministry of Foreign Affairs or 'informal' Thai Marriage? ++You must get the kids their

full documentation

Yes we did a proper Thai marriage... had to return to Thailand twice after the actual wedding to complete all the relevant documents... what a waste of time (and money) that was!... agree about the kids documentation, thanks for the reminder/push.

[wym]

As one P said, if you want the kids get a ruthless custody and divorce lawyer. Not cheap but worth every penny

This.

Thanks for the good advice.

My wife is in another country (still in Asia) but she will have to move around until/if she finds a new guy so that she can get married and get a long-term visa (for now she is just taking advantage of whatever tourist visa / tourist exemptions are available for Thai citizens). I don't think she could safely return to Thailand any time soon unless she comes with a big pot of money (unlikely) and an apologetic attitude (impossible).

We married in Thailand (only). First kid was born in UK (has UK birth certificate + UK and Thai passport) and second kid was born in Thailand (has Thai birth certificate only + no passport yet). I will get the same for him when have some money. I don't think I have copies of my wife's ID/Tabian Baan but could ask from my in-laws anytime if necessary (probably have them saved somewhere in my computer/emails if I really search).

My wife isn't particularly interested in the kids except that she wants them to have a good future (without her having to contribute any time/effort). The kids are still with the in-laws up country but now my sister-in-law has bought a house in Bangkok, which is just being renovated/redecorated then we can move in there together with the kids in a month or so, as an interim step until I can support them myself (or maybe longer term if it works well).

My wife's family have been very supportive through all this (and in the past) and their preference is that I do not divorce my wife and wait until she divorces me. Anyway, I have no choice as divorce would be expensive and I really have no money and too much debt to credibly ask anyone to lend any more, so the situation is less than ideal but I will try to make the best of it.

Yes you certainly need some money, but don't over-estimate its importance to your custody mission, make sure that's job 1 on your priority list.

Your intermediate goal should be to establish a household completely independent of her family, any involvement in your family unit - much less material support from them - will just muddy the waters.

Her being a fugitive out of the country - are you 100% sure, can you document this? - certainly counts in your favor.

If her family will swear it's in the best interest of the children for them to be placed in your sole care will certainly help, but don't count on this no matter what they say.

Best route is still to be able to simply buy her cooperation, don't assume that will take a lot, if she wants what's best for the kids leave on the table the possibility that you'll just wash your hands and walk away from the kids. That would be the Thai on Thai way, either or, never shared.

Keep your eye on the prize, single-minded dedication to that one goal ASAP, everything else is secondary.

[watcharacters]

After 5 years i introduce associates as friends.

.

Sorry but what does that mean?

.

[watcharacters]

.

I'd never critique your chosen path. I'd only ask how you failed to follow the simple maxim of " never risk more than you're prepared to lose'? Was that a reasonable maxim to follow? Invest only what you can walk away from without pain. OK?

Sorry about your loss and grief.

.

[anon11]

Sorry to hear about your problem very clear it is all your wifes fault from the sounds of it you are perfect, just a couple of things if this business was a big as you say your loss was as big as you say WHY oh WHY did you not keep an eye on the books.

Common sense would tell that's what you do I mean YOU did say YOU built the business up from nothing so would it not be the acceptable thing to look at the books on a very regular basis.

Anyway sorry for your loss but there is a very old saying.

" A fool and his money are easily parted "

Lesson learned I hope

[brit1984]

.

I'd never critique your chosen path. I'd only ask how you failed to follow the simple maxim of " never risk more than you're prepared to lose'? Was that a reasonable maxim to follow? Invest only what you can walk away from without pain. OK?

Sorry about your loss and grief.

.

The point I tried to make in the OP is that I came into the relationship with not much assets/savings (all of which I was willing to risk given my age and earning potential) but I still got screwed, because money invested by others or generated as profit through the business leaked out to my wife, so now I have to rebuild the business and repay the investors.

Thanks for the pity anyway and for reminding us all about what is indeed very valuable advice to follow when investing (I will try to remember if I ever have any money to invest).

[brit1984]

Sorry to hear about your problem very clear it is all your wifes fault from the sounds of it you are perfect, just a couple of things if this business was a big as you say your loss was as big as you say WHY oh WHY did you not keep an eye on the books.

Common sense would tell that's what you do I mean YOU did say YOU built the business up from nothing so would it not be the acceptable thing to look at the books on a very regular basis.

Anyway sorry for your loss but there is a very old saying.

" A fool and his money are easily parted "

Lesson learned I hope

Thanks for your input.

I have always taken a keen interest in the numbers but there is a difference between keeping track of sales and expenses to extrapolate into future earnings forecasts and to make management decisions (which is important for anyone running and trying to grow a business) and forensic accounting checking that every single invoice has been paid/received and every transaction has been banked or moved between bank accounts in the correct way (which would normally not be a sensible use of time).

I (implicitly) made an assumption that my wife could be trusted which was a mistake but sometimes in life you do need to trust people, or the world would be very a miserable place with everyone still living in caves only venturing out to hunt for food. I am of course not faultless and should have picked up on, and acted on, clues but lot's of other people were just as fooled, and it was through coincidence it all came out, rather than through anyone actually being suspicious.

I agree "A fool and his money are easily parted" and I may be a food but I didn't have much money to be parted with in the first place.

[benalibina]

Hope ur FIL will not develop a sense of entitlement regarding ur kids.

Ur wifes NPD comes from somewhere....most likely to do with the people who raised and were around her during a big part of her life.

Edited March 9, 2014 by benalibina

[brit1984]

Hope ur FIL will not develop a sense of entitlement regarding ur kids.

Ur wifes NPD comes from somewhere....most likely to do with the people who raised and were around her during a big part of her life.

That's an interesting point as I know my father-in-law has, or has had, some mental health issues, although I don't think it's NPD related as he is one of the most selfless people I have ever met... which I think is why he spoiled my wife as a child, which is why I believe she developed NPD.... but I have very little knowledge/understanding of psychology although some of my family back home do, so I will try to get their advice about this specific point.