Have I just seen a ghost in a Buddha Cave in Wat Tham Sumano - near Phattalung , Southern Thailand

[attrayant]

As This is Thailand - bpen pii ! You are probably right a return visit is in order. Which would be good anyway as it is a lovely place with lovely people.

The problems inherent with ghost hunter videos is that we lacking a firm benchmark of precisely what a ghost is or isn't, so it will always be problematic putting a 'ghost' label on some shadowy fleeting figure in a shaky video. Even in this very thread we have a poster asking if apparitions are supposed to be transparent or not. How can we answer such a question about what apparitions are 'supposed to' look like? Supposed to, according to whom or what standard?

As you can probably sense, I'm a skeptic in such matters. That doesn't mean I refuse to believe - it just means that I need some pretty convincing evidence before I'll do so - especially where matters of the supernatural are concerned. Even if your mysterious blob were more transparent and in-focus, it still wouldn't rule out photographic artifacts like lens flares or errors of perspective. A few years ago I took a video while an ant was crawling across my camera lens. It wasn't noticeable in the LED display as I was recording, but it was very noticeable when I looked through the aperture. Later when I watched the video on a laptop, it looked like some dark misshapen blob slowly making its way across the scene that I was recording. Humans are so easy to fool, and most of the time I think we do it to ourselves. People who go looking for mysterious, vaguely-defined phenomena often find it.

I suggest you go back for the relaxation and site seeing, and if something 'interesting' turns up in a video, we'll all be here to offer our expert opinions from our armchairs as usual. If I were you, I'd make the same walk through that cave and see if the same image turns up on the video.

Edited January 28, 2014 by attrayant

[beautifulthailand99]

A friend comments by email ..

That is one of spookiest things I have ever seen - sent a shiver up my spine. Its gait is obviously a figure, so its either someone down there with you or the headless monk of Suvarnabhum. I presume you didn't notice the figure at the time, as you quite nonchalantly go past the point he walks. I'd have thought if it was an actual person it would have made you jump at the time. Can you remember whether their were side corridors or the like? Although I am generally a rationalist, ghosts are, for some reason, the one thing that puts the wind up me.

[mrdome]

Who organizes the meditation courses that are offered here?

Would be nice if they had a website. I can see this being of interest to Western Dharma practitioners who happen to visit Thailand.

[Commander Tamson]

The strange thing here is that it was caught on camera at all. Maybe the ambiance of the cave had something to do with that. Cameras and the human eye are totally different mediums. The normal person doesn't see ghosts, or any beings, that cohabit our plane of existence because we all have in built filters - otherwise we would all go mad!

I am a reasonably intelligent person - well within the top 5 percentile - had a very good western education and by no means whatsoever superstitious. My brother ( now deceased) was equally intelligent, but at the age of 12 contracted a life treating disease. He was in IC for weeks, in a coma, and a further 3 months in hospital. From that time on he was able to see ghosts, and other things. Because he was so young, he didn't think this was particularly strange, but did get a clout around the ear from my mum & dad when he first mentioned it to them. From then on he did keep reasonably quiet about it.

To cut a long story short, he saw ghosts everywhere ( bit like the movie Ghost Town - although he didn't interact with them and they seemed oblivious to him and to everyone else and thing.

He had absolutely no reason to make this up. Sometimes when talking to him, he would suddenly appear to look at nothing and perhaps smile or frown. Because I knew him I would ask what was that, and he'd say something like Oh I haven't seen that one before, or it's just that old bird who walks up & down the stairs a couple of times every few days or so.

So; I completely believe your video and your story. Count yourself one of the lucky ones.

PS - I loved DrNo's story about Asian ghosts being more solid than western Ghosts. Do they have schools on the other side where they teach geography? When does east become west? This is the sort of superstitious nonsense that the religions of the world have used for centuries to scare the poor & uneducated into submission (but mainly into parting with the little wealth that they have)

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[beautifulthailand99]

The strange thing here is that it was caught on camera at all. Maybe the ambiance of the cave had something to do with that. Cameras and the human eye are totally different mediums. The normal person doesn't see ghosts, or any beings, that cohabit our plane of existence because we all have in built filters - otherwise we would all go mad!

I am a reasonably intelligent person - well within the top 5 percentile - had a very good western education and by no means whatsoever superstitious. My brother ( now deceased) was equally intelligent, but at the age of 12 contracted a life treating disease. He was in IC for weeks, in a coma, and a further 3 months in hospital. From that time on he was able to see ghosts, and other things. Because he was so young, he didn't think this was particularly strange, but did get a clout around the ear from my mum & dad when he first mentioned it to them. From then on he did keep reasonably quiet about it.

To cut a long story short, he saw ghosts everywhere ( bit like the movie Ghost Town - although he didn't interact with them and they seemed oblivious to him and to everyone else and thing.

He had absolutely no reason to make this up. Sometimes when talking to him, he would suddenly appear to look at nothing and perhaps smile or frown. Because I knew him I would ask what was that, and he'd say something like Oh I haven't seen that one before, or it's just that old bird who walks up & down the stairs a couple of times every few days or so.

So; I completely believe your video and your story. Count yourself one of the lucky ones.

PS - I loved DrNo's story about Asian ghosts being more solid than western Ghosts. Do they have schools on the other side where they teach geography? When does east become west? This is the sort of superstitious nonsense that the religions of the world have used for centuries to scare the poor & uneducated into submission (but mainly into parting with the little wealth that they have)

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Thanks for that Commander - I did say to my friend Suzi before I went into the cave the place would need a miracle like Lourdes to put itself on the map - and then I am a lightweight Buddhist beleiver and have gone on meditation retreats and am always meaning to get more involved - after I left the cave I set on the Abbott's house steps and watched the wind on the trees in the jungle for a few minutes and felt a profound sense of calm. The jungle was humming with life and the flags and trees were blowing in the wind and it all seemed so perfect. And by so feeling that I was reminded that the Buddha's Enlightenment took place under a tree in the forest. Many thousands of souls must have passed into the caves over many years - many I would have thought praying , meditating and maybe grieving for lost loved ones so the place is imbued with a natural charm and poise which has overlaid countless human feelings. Who knows but one things is for certain it is a special place and I am glad to have had that experience.

[slipperylobster]

That was the Angel of Death...your time is up ~!

[Loles]

My computer really isn't setup for hard video manipulation at the moment (tho it appears yours isn't either) But I can tell a couple of things right off. (going through the shot frame by frame)

1. It was outside the opening

2. It was solid (no doubt) a very faint color change on the subject caused by the slight wall protusion waist high left and the subject gives some sense of depth as the subject came into view.

3. It bounces as it moved just as a normal walker would do, so it didn't float.

Just for what it's worth

Some nice forensic observations there - maybe a case for the redoubtable

Pornthip Rojanasunand to help out with.

Is she the ghost? Looks like. Or what is the question?

[beautifulthailand99]

Who organizes the meditation courses that are offered here?

Would be nice if they had a website. I can see this being of interest to Western Dharma practitioners who happen to visit Thailand.

I will be getting more information shortly and getting some more videos up about the temple and surroundings. It has a very good vibe. I am making some enquiries about contact details pretty sure they don't have a website. Here's a poster in Thai which my wife tells me is about something good !

[beautifulthailand99]

My computer really isn't setup for hard video manipulation at the moment (tho it appears yours isn't either) But I can tell a couple of things right off. (going through the shot frame by frame)

1. It was outside the opening

2. It was solid (no doubt) a very faint color change on the subject caused by the slight wall protusion waist high left and the subject gives some sense of depth as the subject came into view.

3. It bounces as it moved just as a normal walker would do, so it didn't float.

Just for what it's worth

Some nice forensic observations there - maybe a case for the redoubtable

Pornthip Rojanasunand to help out with.

Is she the ghost? Looks like. Or what is the question?

She is a true superstar in Thailand - of the very best sort - sadly came to prominence after the Tsunami.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pornthip_Rojanasunand

[monkeyboots]

If you go back to the cave and check, you'll see it was a stalagmite that you walked round.

[beautifulthailand99]

Got the name of the cave wrong after a lot of searching in Thai helped by my wife we have tracked it down to

Wat Buddhakhodom Cave - ท่องเที่ยวถ้ำพุทธโคดม but can't put the facebook link up as it goes to gobbleygook.

If anybody can access the page and then get a working link up it would be great.

[beautifulthailand99]

Got the name of the cave wrong after a lot of searching in Thai helped by my wife we have tracked it down to

Wat Buddhakhodom Cave - ท่องเที่ยวถ้ำพุทธโคดม but can't put the facebook link up as it goes to gobbleygook.

If anybody can access the page and then get a working link up it would be great.

Could a mod change the title of this thread please that would be most helpful if you could.

[smileydude]

The image looked like a person wearing a cape and hood ala western style priest/monks, not a buddhist monk.

[beautifulthailand99]

Have put together a playlist of all the videos I took that day which includes at some point the walk back through the cave.

[beautifulthailand99]

My astute friend adds some more comments which I suspect ate deserving of a wider audience ....

I toyed with adding a comment to the forum, but then discovered that mysteriously I already had. The addled theories on there boggle the mind - and not just from the believers. If anything, its the pig headed sceptics that are bullish in their insistence it is "obviously" a rock etc. Reminds me of Dawkins mindset.

The "sound" theory, I think, is a little overplayed. You are quite a heavy footed walker, I would say, and are - obviously - very close to the camera at all times. The figure would only need to be wearing sandals and I could see them making little noise. There's also a danger of double counting weirdness. You didn't hear anyone, which is strange, but given that fact, the sound wouldn't be on the soundtrack. You can't count this as two weird facts - its the same point made two different ways.

Given that its obviously (to me) a figure, the key point is where did they go to. If you can go back, I would do so like a shot. Refilm the journey, and at the point beyond the darkness, film left and right. If there is a tunnel going right, then it was a quiet person. If there are no tributaries running of the tunnel, then where the hell did he go?

[Lobo4455]

Wow,interesting where is this cave located?

[transam]

I now drink Chang Draught................ ............

[noikrit]

I've seen some "Big Foots" in some bars , but never in a cave ... classic Vid ...

[beautifulthailand99]

Wow,interesting where is this cave located?

Near Phattalung city - deep down south where most farang don't venture - here's our redoubtable friend Nong Kwang native of this parish talking about the benefits and natural beauty of the temple.

[lmfao]

Who you goanna Call....?

Ghost Busters....

DenewdewdillydenewnewsdillyGHOSTBUSTERrrss

[Commander Tamson]

The image looked like a person wearing a cape and hood ala western style priest/monks, not a buddhist monk.

Come on! What you're really trying to say is that you think it may have Batman

[beautifulthailand99]

The image looked like a person wearing a cape and hood ala western style priest/monks, not a buddhist monk.

Come on! What you're really trying to say is that you think it may have Batman

Well there was a bat cave in the first chamber to be sure - so maybe ?

[beautifulthailand99]

Here's my more mainstream video of my visit a week before where I met one of the monk's and his 99 year old father.

[wilcopops]

no you didn't.

[wilcopops]

Research review finds little healh-related benefit from meditation

Researchers at Johns Hopkins University have reviewed whether meditation programs can improve anxiety, depression, mood, mental health-related quality of life, attention, substance abuse, eating habits, sleep, pain, and weight in adults. [Goyal M and others. Meditation programs for psychological stress and well-being: A systematic review and meta-analysis. JAMA Internal Medicine, 2014] After examining thousands of reports, the researchers found only 47 studies were sufficiently well-designed to be included in their meta-analysis, which concluded:

• Mindfulness meditation programs showed (a) moderate evidence of improved anxiety, depression, and pain, (b low evidence of improved stress/distress and mental health-related quality of life, and © low evidence of no effect or insufficient evidence of any effect on positive mood, attention, substance use, eating habits, sleep, and weight.
• Mantra-based programs demonstrated no benefit.
• There was no evidence that meditation programs were better than drugs, exercise, and other behavioral therapies.

The published report did not consider the extent to which meditation is inappropriately recommended to people who would benefit much more from counseling or psychotherapy that helps them identify and deal with the causes of stress responsible for their symptoms.

Edited February 10, 2014 by wilcopops

[rhythmworx]

You panned left as it crossed the horizon and whilst doing so took 4-5 footsteps (why would you pan into complete darkness when making a video?...theres nothing to show, unless you did it for a reason).

That is very easily enough to render it out of frame at that lenses viewing angle once you panned back to the light.

It was a rock I am guessing and also your girl/wife has just opened up a drinking and food area near the temple prior to shooting this video.

Excellent effort in getting people worldwide to visit I will give you that.

I have seen real apparitions with my eyes...hallucinations or not I will never know.

The 1st one (I was the only person in the house awake) was 50-75% transparent wearing some rag like robe holding a baby in her arms...that was in my house.

The 2nd one I actually thought was some drug addict girl staring into my mates car (she looked like she was half dead) for around 30-40 seconds as we are outside a burger joint...I said "what's up with her I think she wants some of your spliff" he replied "what you talking about" I said "her there who's just walked off, she was staring in to the car" he replied "there was nobody there" he wasn't looking though he was busy rolling up. She walked off to the corner of the road roughly 20 metres away and stood for a few seconds looking back....I jumped out of the car and legged it after her...she was nowhere to be seen.

I am a BIG sceptic of videos like this because there are so many fakes, but I like to keep my mind open.

EDIT: The 2nd one was not transparent...she just looked like a dead smack head staring into the car.

Edited February 13, 2014 by rhythmworx

[beautifulthailand99]

Some good points - rhyhmworx and I suspect it is just an artefact of the light which a return visit and a re-run of my walk would no doubt confirm. My panning was just me wondering round holding a camera in front of me in the direction of travel rather than an attempt to capture 'it' - as I have said I was not aware of 'it' at the time and only noticed it when looking back at the video on a laptop some time later when returning to Bangkok.

Here is what one of my highly analytical sceptical friends (with too much time on his hands - he should join TVF!) thinks of it...

I discussed your video with my brother, and we are completely convinced its a stationary object, most likely a rock formation. He put it through some software that breaks it down into frames, and enhanced the image, and then the two of us discussed it for far too long, when she should have better things to do. For me, having had the seed sown, I would point to the following:

If you look at the few seconds that the silhouette appears, but look past it into the lighted area, you will see the staircase goes from extreme right to left. The figure goes the other way to the same degree. Clearly the stairs are moving as a result of your changing perspective. This means your perspective is also changing on the figure. In short, whatever it is, it is not moving, you are walking around it.

The "left" arm, if we assume the figure has its back to us, is slightly lighter in tone. This is best seen if you freeze on the blow up at 1.46. Between 1.46 and 1.50 it appears to move relative to the main shape. HOWEVER, if you look at 1.54 you can see that the "left arm" is actually the curve of the cave next to stairs in the background. Click back between 1.46 and 1.54 and it becomes clear. When you rerun it, the brain now tells you the shape is conical, and the movement is the differing perspective you have on the background.

At no time do we see space between the "head" of the monk and the cave roof. This might be because he is tall enough for his silloette to overlap with the cave roof, but if you look at 1.46 to 1.47, the "head" seems to be too tall and thin in relation to the "shoulders" - it is like a man walking along with a Dr Who alien head on top of his real one. You walked through that gap, and your 6ft something, so should be able to estimate how tall this extra head extension would have to be.

This also explains, of course, why "he" made no sound, and you didn't see "him." You walked around the rock, which your brain effortlessly interpreted as a rock, and then didn't even register it on your memory.

[beautifulthailand99]

Sound of a dead horse being flogged....

[wilcopops]

Difficult to know where to begin - the holes in this are so big.

The strange thing here is that it was caught on camera at all. Maybe the ambiance of the cave had something to do with that. Cameras and the human eye are totally different mediums. The normal person doesn't see ghosts, or any beings, that cohabit our plane of existence because we all have in built filters - otherwise we would all go mad!

I am a reasonably intelligent person - well within the top 5 percentile - had a very good western education and by no means whatsoever superstitious. My brother ( now deceased) was equally intelligent, but at the age of 12 contracted a life treating disease. He was in IC for weeks, in a coma, and a further 3 months in hospital. From that time on he was able to see ghosts, and other things. Because he was so young, he didn't think this was particularly strange, but did get a clout around the ear from my mum & dad when he first mentioned it to them. From then on he did keep reasonably quiet about it.

To cut a long story short, he saw ghosts everywhere ( bit like the movie Ghost Town - although he didn't interact with them and they seemed oblivious to him and to everyone else and thing.

He had absolutely no reason to make this up. Sometimes when talking to him, he would suddenly appear to look at nothing and perhaps smile or frown. Because I knew him I would ask what was that, and he'd say something like Oh I haven't seen that one before, or it's just that old bird who walks up & down the stairs a couple of times every few days or so.

So; I completely believe your video and your story. Count yourself one of the lucky ones.

PS - I loved DrNo's story about Asian ghosts being more solid than western Ghosts. Do they have schools on the other side where they teach geography? When does east become west? This is the sort of superstitious nonsense that the religions of the world have used for centuries to scare the poor & uneducated into submission (but mainly into parting with the little wealth that they have)



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[Ants]

Could it have been slimer???

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