We want our rice back, plus compensation, angry Thai farmers say

[bigbamboo]

I can understand the plight of the farmers. But it goes for anyone, if the deal sounds too good to be true, it probably is!

If you're willing to believe that by voting for someone he'll make you rich in six months then you'll believe anything...!

[love1012]

Great idea wasn't it, to help the poor farmers and 'make everyone rich within six months', except it didn't have a fairy-tale ending.

Almost sounds like the old mutual fund scams perpetrated by banks around the world telling customers their money is secure. What Thai rice farmers painfully got was a lesson in how big business screws the little guy.

Big Business = Shinatwatra!!

[soalbundy]

I don't know if any of you have actually done any rice farming.I have,with the missus,and although she with my son, own over 200 rai which is far more than most farmers own,i can tell you its not a good earner. The outlay for plowing costs,combine harvester costs,buying fertilizer and pesticides is very high. Add to that the transportation costs to the barn from the fields and the hard work of drying the rice,without the rice pledging scheme it isn't worth it,especially when you consider the risks of a bad harvest (flooding or drought).

The farmers in Europe and America are subsidized, i see no reason why the farmers of Thailand shouldn't enjoy the same benefits. The fact that the system is open to corruption is not the fault of the farmers. Better controls are needed and a realization that the rice will be sold at a loss, call it an equaling out of the disparity between the living standards in Bangkok and Isan.

Besides your claim that EU farmers are subsidised, can you give me any valid reason why tax from efficient industries should be handed to you? Let's call it vote-buying and theft of government resources that could be much better spent.

The method employed by PTP is most certainly vote buying and wasteful. However having said that most farming communities whether they be in Norway,America, France or where ever, need subsidies to survive because if you had to pay the real price of production (say in Europe) you couldn't afford to eat.

There are subsidies and there are subsidies. A good example of sustainable subsidies was the method used by the Democrats which i have explained to "casualbiker" in answer to his post (further down if you are interested). It didn't give us as much as we get now but we were satisfied.The Democrat method also ensured that the best quality rice would be produced.

As one post has also pointed out, the minimum wage is also a subsidy in a way although you pay for this directly with increased prices.

I would also like to point out that many farmers have only 20 or 30 rai themselves and have to rent land for farming in order to survive. Having a large proportion of your citizens living in poverty is not a good idea as a certain king of France once found out.

[Trembly]

Thaksin the great leader,this rice pledging scam was his idea,

why does he not dig into his deep pockets and help the poor

people he is supposed to love and care about so much ?

While in Dubai he told the Red shirts all he had to eat there

was camel meat and camel milk ! and they will have believed

him, they also believed him when he said this rice scheme would

make them all rich, whats happened is ,the farmers are deeper in

debit,the country has been brought to its knees by the rice mountain,

some people will have done very nicely out of this with very little work,

and its not the farmers.

regards Worgeordie

Of course it's a coincidence that the people who have made an absolute killing from this scheme (and have already been paid) happen to be a handful of select red shirt leaders, MPs and businessmen often seen lunching and golfing with Thaksin.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[JRSoul]

I don't know if any of you have actually done any rice farming.I have,with the missus,and although she with my son, own over 200 rai which is far more than most farmers own,i can tell you its not a good earner. The outlay for plowing costs,combine harvester costs,buying fertilizer and pesticides is very high. Add to that the transportation costs to the barn from the fields and the hard work of drying the rice,without the rice pledging scheme it isn't worth it,especially when you consider the risks of a bad harvest (flooding or drought).

The farmers in Europe and America are subsidized, i see no reason why the farmers of Thailand shouldn't enjoy the same benefits. The fact that the system is open to corruption is not the fault of the farmers. Better controls are needed and a realization that the rice will be sold at a loss, call it an equaling out of the disparity between the living standards in Bangkok and Isan.

Besides your claim that EU farmers are subsidised, can you give me any valid reason why tax from efficient industries should be handed to you? Let's call it vote-buying and theft of government resources that could be much better spent.

The method employed by PTP is most certainly vote buying and wasteful. However having said that most farming communities whether they be in Norway,America, France or where ever, need subsidies to survive because if you had to pay the real price of production (say in Europe) you couldn't afford to eat.

There are subsidies and there are subsidies. A good example of sustainable subsidies was the method used by the Democrats which i have explained to "casualbiker" in answer to his post (further down if you are interested). It didn't give us as much as we get now but we were satisfied.The Democrat method also ensured that the best quality rice would be produced.

As one post has also pointed out, the minimum wage is also a subsidy in a way although you pay for this directly with increased prices.

I would also like to point out that many farmers have only 20 or 30 rai themselves and have to rent land for farming in order to survive. Having a large proportion of your citizens living in poverty is not a good idea as a certain king of France once found out.

Nor is paying them tax payer's money to continue in an uneconomic industry. This subsidy DOES NOT reduce the price of rice, it reduces that money available for infrastructure and government services for other Thai citizens.

If you can't make enough money from your business, give it up, change your product, like any other business does.

[arthurwait]

How will they know which is theirs ? Did they mark it with an X like their voting slips ?

[Mosha]

I don't know if any of you have actually done any rice farming.I have,with the missus,and although she with my son, own over 200 rai which is far more than most farmers own,i can tell you its not a good earner. The outlay for plowing costs,combine harvester costs,buying fertilizer and pesticides is very high. Add to that the transportation costs to the barn from the fields and the hard work of drying the rice,without the rice pledging scheme it isn't worth it,especially when you consider the risks of a bad harvest (flooding or drought).

The farmers in Europe and America are subsidized, i see no reason why the farmers of Thailand shouldn't enjoy the same benefits. The fact that the system is open to corruption is not the fault of the farmers. Better controls are needed and a realization that the rice will be sold at a loss, call it an equaling out of the disparity between the living standards in Bangkok and Isan.

Can you tell us more about the Democrats rice guarantee scheme .. that seemed better planned. More like a subsidy scheme. Thanks

Sent from my XT1032 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Yes,the method used by the Democrats was much better in that it was sustainable and didn't bankrupt the

state.

We received 2000 Baht for every rai of land that we used for rice growing.The rice was sold by us to the millers as per usual so the Democrat method was a subsidy to make up for the often low price that the millers gave us. We rented out some land to other farmers in our village,in that case we only received 500 Baht per rai and the farmer renting received 1,500 Baht. The end result wasn't as much as we s h o u l d be getting now but we were satisfied, it was worthwhile planting rice.

Another positive aspect was that because we were selling to the millers they would pay the best price for good quality so everyone made an effort to produce quality rice,the Yingluck system was really only about quantity so of course the quality suffered.

"The end result wasn't as much as we s h o u l d be getting now but we were satisfied, it was worthwhile planting rice."

A bird in the hand etc...

[Robby nz]

I don't know if any of you have actually done any rice farming.I have,with the missus,and although she with my son, own over 200 rai which is far more than most farmers own,i can tell you its not a good earner. The outlay for plowing costs,combine harvester costs,buying fertilizer and pesticides is very high. Add to that the transportation costs to the barn from the fields and the hard work of drying the rice,without the rice pledging scheme it isn't worth it,especially when you consider the risks of a bad harvest (flooding or drought).

The farmers in Europe and America are subsidized, i see no reason why the farmers of Thailand shouldn't enjoy the same benefits. The fact that the system is open to corruption is not the fault of the farmers. Better controls are needed and a realization that the rice will be sold at a loss, call it an equaling out of the disparity between the living standards in Bangkok and Isan.

Can you tell us more about the Democrats rice guarantee scheme .. that seemed better planned. More like a subsidy scheme. Thanks

Sent from my XT1032 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Yes,the method used by the Democrats was much better in that it was sustainable and didn't bankrupt the

state.

We received 2000 Baht for every rai of land that we used for rice growing.The rice was sold by us to the millers as per usual so the Democrat method was a subsidy to make up for the often low price that the millers gave us. We rented out some land to other farmers in our village,in that case we only received 500 Baht per rai and the farmer renting received 1,500 Baht. The end result wasn't as much as we s h o u l d be getting now but we were satisfied, it was worthwhile planting rice.

Another positive aspect was that because we were selling to the millers they would pay the best price for good quality so everyone made an effort to produce quality rice,the Yingluck system was really only about quantity so of course the quality suffered.

There is also the fact that the Dems scheme did not include keeping and storing the rice, rather it was released on to the market as it was produced.

It was a pure subsidy and nor an attempt to manipulate the world market.

No matter what is done from here each year there will be a new crop coming on to the market and even if Thailand can get back to being the number one exporter they will still only be selling the new seasons crop for the farmers will be growing enough for both the domestic and export markets, from memory the crop was estimated at 18 million tons for the 2013/14 season.

That will mean the accumulated stock (mountain) will not be sold.

[Gweiloman]

Was not going to bother to reply but having just finished my tam pu pla khao niaw lunch, I'm feeling more generous.

I was replying to the poster who said that the rice pledging scheme is nonsense and that the govt should also assist other sectors of the economy. I responded by saying that other govts also have programs in place that are non-profitable but essential for society. Neither his post nor mine touched on the incompetency of the PT govt to execute this scheme.

If you want, then engage in a debate on which policies are good / bad. Don't hijack every post just to score cheap points.

Touching on the incompetency of this government to carry out non profitable scheme is on point. Why bother wasting tax payer money on something to help society when it doesn't actually help society?

If you say so ...........

[belg]

ah 9000 baht per ton is the normal price, so they can stop that useless 15.000 baht per ton tax money payer vote included scam

[soalbundy]

I don't know if any of you have actually done any rice farming.I have,with the missus,and although she with my son, own over 200 rai which is far more than most farmers own,i can tell you its not a good earner. The outlay for plowing costs,combine harvester costs,buying fertilizer and pesticides is very high. Add to that the transportation costs to the barn from the fields and the hard work of drying the rice,without the rice pledging scheme it isn't worth it,especially when you consider the risks of a bad harvest (flooding or drought).

The farmers in Europe and America are subsidized, i see no reason why the farmers of Thailand shouldn't enjoy the same benefits. The fact that the system is open to corruption is not the fault of the farmers. Better controls are needed and a realization that the rice will be sold at a loss, call it an equaling out of the disparity between the living standards in Bangkok and Isan.

Besides your claim that EU farmers are subsidised, can you give me any valid reason why tax from efficient industries should be handed to you? Let's call it vote-buying and theft of government resources that could be much better spent.

The method employed by PTP is most certainly vote buying and wasteful. However having said that most farming communities whether they be in Norway,America, France or where ever, need subsidies to survive because if you had to pay the real price of production (say in Europe) you couldn't afford to eat.

There are subsidies and there are subsidies. A good example of sustainable subsidies was the method used by the Democrats which i have explained to "casualbiker" in answer to his post (further down if you are interested). It didn't give us as much as we get now but we were satisfied.The Democrat method also ensured that the best quality rice would be produced.

As one post has also pointed out, the minimum wage is also a subsidy in a way although you pay for this directly with increased prices.

I would also like to point out that many farmers have only 20 or 30 rai themselves and have to rent land for farming in order to survive. Having a large proportion of your citizens living in poverty is not a good idea as a certain king of France once found out.

Nor is paying them tax payer's money to continue in an uneconomic industry. This subsidy DOES NOT reduce the price of rice, it reduces that money available for infrastructure and government services for other Thai citizens.

If you can't make enough money from your business, give it up, change your product, like any other business does.

No farmer in an organised society can sell his product at a price that would give him a profit. There are always large organisations who buy in bulk and pay prices below his production costs. A sheep farmer in England pays more to have his sheep sheared than he gets for the wool, just one example. Ever heard of milk farmers in Europe tipping out milk on to the street in protest because the price paid for their milk by Supermarket organisations doesn't even cover the costs of the production ?

Well if we can't make money we'll just give up then......ever thought about what you would eat ?

We don't have nuclear energy here,but have you ever read about how much your electricity would cost in Europe if all the costs of nuclear energy were factored in and not hidden ?....er yes, its subsidized. Diesel, oh yes that is also subsidized otherwise you would pay more for your goods at the supermarket Many industries are subsidized,for instance they get cheaper electricity, cheap land rents, no corporate tax if they build in this town or that country, The list can go on and on.

[TVGerry]

Was not going to bother to reply but having just finished my tam pu pla khao niaw lunch, I'm feeling more generous.

I was replying to the poster who said that the rice pledging scheme is nonsense and that the govt should also assist other sectors of the economy. I responded by saying that other govts also have programs in place that are non-profitable but essential for society. Neither his post nor mine touched on the incompetency of the PT govt to execute this scheme.

If you want, then engage in a debate on which policies are good / bad. Don't hijack every post just to score cheap points.

Touching on the incompetency of this government to carry out non profitable scheme is on point. Why bother wasting tax payer money on something to help society when it doesn't actually help society?

If you say so ...........

I do say so.

[soalbundy]

For JRSOUL I did a little experiment last year,i produced 3 tons of bio Jasmin rice (not subsidized) and sold it for 70 Baht a kilo in Chiang Mai that gave me a small profit but i don't think there are many housewives who would be prepared to pay that much every day. It took me some time to shift it all. The amount of harvest per rai was smaller than normal, no chemical fertilizer, no pestizides. I had to pay transport costs,storage costs, and pay someone to sell it for me. Innovative of me wasn't it ? but i assume you would rather pay 30 Baht for your subsidized jasmin rice in the supermarket.

[fullcave]

I count 8 farmer looking people in that photo and one very expensive white car, presumably the PR man writing this.

I count 10 and a mediocre Toyota Altis on the road.. presumably driving.

You are right, there's one in the back of the truck. Of the vehicles, the PR man (taking the photo) will be the car I assume.

Actually the rice farmers are not angry at all. It’s a spoof perpetuated by anti-fashist terrorists and thugs ...

[JJttttt1]

this rice pledging scheme is complete nonsense. Why should the government waste the money of other taxpayers to support ineffective farmers? If they can't make profit with present market prices they should sell there land to people who can organize more effective way of production.

why should, for example, factory workers pay there tax to support farmers? Who don't the government support factory workers too? I am sure they want a better life too!

All around the way, various govts have social programs in place to shore up inefficient and unprofitable but essential services, for the good of all.

Incidentally, the minimum wage scheme supports factory workers in the hope that they can have a better life too.

P/s: with your "humanitarian" approach, you do not deserve to use IK's picture as your avatar.

inefficient production can't be good for all, only for farmers who has a way to stay ineffective and populist politicians who use there votes. Good for all would be buying rice on the free market for cheapest price...

minimum wage scheme is completely different than buying goods to support ineffective productions. Minimum wage forces employer to pay more but don't steal money from taxpayer's pocket.

PS and my avatar is not Iz's pic.

[casualbiker]

For JRSOUL I did a little experiment last year,i produced 3 tons of bio Jasmin rice (not subsidized) and sold it for 70 Baht a kilo in Chiang Mai that gave me a small profit but i don't think there are many housewives who would be prepared to pay that much every day. It took me some time to shift it all. The amount of harvest per rai was smaller than normal, no chemical fertilizer, no pestizides. I had to pay transport costs,storage costs, and pay someone to sell it for me. Innovative of me wasn't it ? but i assume you would rather pay 30 Baht for your subsidized jasmin rice in the supermarket.

Personally I would love to find truly organic food here ..maybe get a website set up and talk to other product growers to form an organic co-op.

Sent from my XT1032 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[GentlemanJim]

Perhaps the sage words of Thomas Jefferson will now make sense to the farmers and how they should consider using their votes in the future.

A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have.

[Mosha]

Perhaps the sage words of Thomas Jefferson will now make sense to the farmers and how they should consider using their votes in the future.

A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have.

I like that Jim, ran out of them.

[soalbundy]

For JRSOUL I did a little experiment last year,i produced 3 tons of bio Jasmin rice (not subsidized) and sold it for 70 Baht a kilo in Chiang Mai that gave me a small profit but i don't think there are many housewives who would be prepared to pay that much every day. It took me some time to shift it all. The amount of harvest per rai was smaller than normal, no chemical fertilizer, no pestizides. I had to pay transport costs,storage costs, and pay someone to sell it for me. Innovative of me wasn't it ? but i assume you would rather pay 30 Baht for your subsidized jasmin rice in the supermarket.

Personally I would love to find truly organic food here ..maybe get a website set up and talk to other product growers to form an organic co-op.

Sent from my XT1032 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

well thanks for the interest but its not something i would like to try again,the yield per rai was lousy and the quality of the rice wasn't all that good compared to the rice grown with chemical fertilizers. I do my best though, i use 60% natural fertilizer and 40% chemical (That still costs 45,000 Baht for 200 Rai )

[Mosha]

45,000 baht for 200 rai. We spend that on 1/10 the land for rubber, and are lucky to get 5 months tapping out of it.

[soalbundy]

45,000 baht for 200 rai. We spend that on 1/10 the land for rubber, and are lucky to get 5 months tapping out of it.

I was referring to only the chemical fertilizer, the natural fertilizers aren't free and involve a lot of hard work.

Doing rubber must be a bitch, i believe the prices are controlled by Japan. Rice is controlled by the Chicago market and the Millers here. No free enterprise for farmers,we are screwed from when we get up till we go to bed.

[Mosha]

45,000 baht for 200 rai. We spend that on 1/10 the land for rubber, and are lucky to get 5 months tapping out of it.

I was referring to only the chemical fertilizer, the natural fertilizers aren't free and involve a lot of hard work.

Doing rubber must be a bitch, i believe the prices are controlled by Japan. Rice is controlled by the Chicago market and the Millers here. No free enterprise for farmers,we are screwed from when we get up till we go to bed.

Doesn't help when more countries are growing it. eg Ghanaian farmers jumping out of Cocoa, will be harvesting this year. It is what it is, and we have to learn to live with it.

[harada]

The demands sound fair enough, provided the rice hasn't yet rotted away.

They want the new seasons rice back not the old stuff.

That will continue to rot away as nobody wants it.

Turn it into Lao Kao, there will be a few million Thai's needing a drink before this mess is over,