timoclark Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 I'm pretty sure that IF the Pro democracy lot really wanted to, then the street of Bangkok would be awash with bodies and blood. Considering the pro democracy protesters are the ones being hit - that is a really odd statement... I have never seen a protest this big (anywhere in the world) and this peaceful - sadly those who want things to remain status quo, who do not want a change for Thailand, anti-reform peoples, is now using bombs (how ever small) and killing sprees to intimidate protesters... Sorry. perhaps I've missed something. The 'pro-democracy' people are the ones trying to oust a democratically-elected government and then thwart an election? Really? And these same people are holding the ordinary citizens of Bangkok to ransom, ruining the economy. What is pro-democracy about that? And the anti-reform people are those who disagree with an appointed council to run the country. Hmm. Tell us then, what was "pro-democracy" about the Red Shirts in 2010 holding Bangkok hostage, including all sorts of nefarious violence, from pulling soldiers out of trucks to beat them to death, to invading hospitals and setting up flammable explosive barricades at the emergency entrance, to harrassing those trying to go to their homes which were unfortunately located in the midst of the Red mobs, to burning and looting, to shooting unarmed protesters with RPGs....... what was so "democratic" about that? The constitution you all rant on about was approved by a popular referendum voted on and approved by the people, and your Thaksin wants to shred it because it doesn't suit him. How much did the Reds do to ruin the economy is 2010? Far more than this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Haggis Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Instead of cutting and pasting bit parts of what I've written, look further into the thread and you'll see what else I've written on my personal opinions on pro and anti. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finkelstein Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 I'm pretty sure that IF the Pro democracy lot really wanted to, then the street of Bangkok would be awash with bodies and blood. Considering the pro democracy protesters are the ones being hit - that is a really odd statement... I have never seen a protest this big (anywhere in the world) and this peaceful - sadly those who want things to remain status quo, who do not want a change for Thailand, anti-reform peoples, is now using bombs (how ever small) and killing sprees to intimidate protesters... Sorry. perhaps I've missed something. The 'pro-democracy' people are the ones trying to oust a democratically-elected government and then thwart an election? Really? And these same people are holding the ordinary citizens of Bangkok to ransom, ruining the economy. What is pro-democracy about that? And the anti-reform people are those who disagree with an appointed council to run the country. Hmm. As I have pointed out in other similar debates - an election alone do not create democracy - this is what this portest movement is all about - they want reforms - they do not want to oust democracy, they want to reform Thailand and create basis for democracy... Hitler, Mugabe and Sadam Hussain was all elected into power... Election alone do not secure democracy... I am pretty sure even the North Korean leaders from time to time want to be confirmed about the peoples absolut support... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post MrJohnson Posted January 28, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted January 28, 2014 I'm pretty sure that IF the Pro democracy lot really wanted to, then the street of Bangkok would be awash with bodies and blood. Considering the pro democracy protesters are the ones being hit - that is a really odd statement... I have never seen a protest this big (anywhere in the world) and this peaceful - sadly those who want things to remain status quo, who do not want a change for Thailand, anti-reform peoples, is now using bombs (how ever small) and killing sprees to intimidate protesters... Sorry. perhaps I've missed something. The 'pro-democracy' people are the ones trying to oust a democratically-elected government and then thwart an election? Really? And these same people are holding the ordinary citizens of Bangkok to ransom, ruining the economy. What is pro-democracy about that? And the anti-reform people are those who disagree with an appointed council to run the country. Hmm. Tell us then, what was "pro-democracy" about the Red Shirts in 2010 holding Bangkok hostage, including all sorts of nefarious violence, from pulling soldiers out of trucks to beat them to death, to invading hospitals and setting up flammable explosive barricades at the emergency entrance, to harrassing those trying to go to their homes which were unfortunately located in the midst of the Red mobs, to burning and looting, to shooting unarmed protesters with RPGs....... what was so "democratic" about that? The constitution you all rant on about was approved by a popular referendum voted on and approved by the people, and your Thaksin wants to shred it because it doesn't suit him. How much did the Reds do to ruin the economy is 2010? Far more than this! Read my post again, Old Chap. You will see no mention of the red shirts and their antics. Bully boy tactics just the same as the current mob. Same behaviour. Different coloured shirts. Neither did I make mention of the constitution. Thai governments have historically changed the constitution frequently to serve their own needs. Again, regardless of colour or current leader/dictator. And yes, the red shirts contibuted to economic decline in 2010. But again, I never suggested they did not. BTW - my attitude to their behaviour at that time is very consistent with my attitude to the current rabble. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finkelstein Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Read my post again, Old Chap. You will see no mention of the red shirts and their antics. Bully boy tactics just the same as the current mob. Same behaviour. Different coloured shirts. Neither did I make mention of the constitution. Thai governments have historically changed the constitution frequently to serve their own needs. Again, regardless of colour or current leader/dictator. And yes, the red shirts contibuted to economic decline in 2010. But again, I never suggested they did not. BTW - my attitude to their behaviour at that time is very consistent with my attitude to the current rabble. Hmmm - did You actually go into Bangkok ?? I have been to Victory monument, MBK and Asoke - no mob there - only peaceful peoples whisteling, listening to great music, some speakers - it's like a gigantic festival with tents, and small shops, MBK is crowded with peoples thais asd westerners on a buying spree... This is the most peaceful demonstration I have ever seen in any country at any time... Only bombes (I am pretty sure from peoples who do not want reforms) and the odd shooting down of political leaders (as it has happend before in Thailands history) but no one is talking about burning down anything here... Not ONE!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finkelstein Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 From outside MBK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramrod711 Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 "Rock"? small traces of gunpowder on a sandbag and a guard's ears hurt. Hardly "Rock". No big deal eh? Perhaps you would like to stand and let someone toss one at you. Bombs, bullets beatings, red shirt justice all over again. I suppose we should be grateful that they haven"t burned anything......yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrJohnson Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Read my post again, Old Chap. You will see no mention of the red shirts and their antics. Bully boy tactics just the same as the current mob. Same behaviour. Different coloured shirts. Neither did I make mention of the constitution. Thai governments have historically changed the constitution frequently to serve their own needs. Again, regardless of colour or current leader/dictator. And yes, the red shirts contibuted to economic decline in 2010. But again, I never suggested they did not. BTW - my attitude to their behaviour at that time is very consistent with my attitude to the current rabble. Hmmm - did You actually go into Bangkok ?? I have been to Victory monument, MBK and Asoke - no mob there - only peaceful peoples whisteling, listening to great music, some speakers - it's like a gigantic festival with tents, and small shops, MBK is crowded with peoples thais asd westerners on a buying spree... This is the most peaceful demonstration I have ever seen in any country at any time... Only bombes (I am pretty sure from peoples who do not want reforms) and the odd shooting down of political leaders (as it has happend before in Thailands history) but no one is talking about burning down anything here... Not ONE!! I live in Bangkok, Comrade. I can't get clients into my office because of the road closures. I spent an hour in traffic last week trying to get my daughter to Samitivej hospital because of that ridiculous closure of the Sukhumvit/Asoke intersection. While the opportunistic street vendors are making money selling essentail 'protest paraphenalia' the legitimate businesses who pay rent are going broke. Go ask any of the hoteliers or restaurantors. Non-violent or not - this demonstration aims to dislodge a democratically elected government. Like it or not, they were elected in a valid election. If the 'old guard' don't like it they have to get smart like Thaksin did and get people voting for them. Of course that may not sit well with many of the mob because many of them don't even believe in universal suffrage. There are many that believe that the rural poor are not 'educated' enough to vote. Now, there's a real problem. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belg Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 hey, they said they needed more violence to get the army involved... someone is following orders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finkelstein Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Hmmm - did You actually go into Bangkok ?? I have been to Victory monument, MBK and Asoke - no mob there - only peaceful peoples whisteling, listening to great music, some speakers - it's like a gigantic festival with tents, and small shops, MBK is crowded with peoples thais asd westerners on a buying spree... This is the most peaceful demonstration I have ever seen in any country at any time... Only bombes (I am pretty sure from peoples who do not want reforms) and the odd shooting down of political leaders (as it has happend before in Thailands history) but no one is talking about burning down anything here... Not ONE!! I live in Bangkok, Comrade. I can't get clients into my office because of the road closures. I spent an hour in traffic last week trying to get my daughter to Samitivej hospital because of that ridiculous closure of the Sukhumvit/Asoke intersection. While the opportunistic street vendors are making money selling essentail 'protest paraphenalia' the legitimate businesses who pay rent are going broke. Go ask any of the hoteliers or restaurantors. Non-violent or not - this demonstration aims to dislodge a democratically elected government. Like it or not, they were elected in a valid election. If the 'old guard' don't like it they have to get smart like Thaksin did and get people voting for them. Of course that may not sit well with many of the mob because many of them don't even believe in universal suffrage. There are many that believe that the rural poor are not 'educated' enough to vote. Now, there's a real problem. Well - You took the wrong route - I have a car, I go around in Bangkok - and sure I did not go to Asoke... But in the area there are many of the best hospitals in Bangkok - why did You let Your daughter suffer an hour in traffic when You could have chosen another hospital ?? No this demonstration tries in very peaceful way to make the general population aware that Thailand do not have true democracy, and they try to expain why reforms are a valid way of getting Thailand on track to democracy... That will of cause make some problems, but if You lived in Bangkok in 2010 then You would not use one hour getting Your kid to hospital, because being one hour outside in those days were very dangerous - I was in Bangkok in 2010 too, and in 2008 and in 2006 - this is so far the best bid to get Thailand forward... The 2010 red shirt was spawned because a small party followed the democratic rules and started to vote with the democrats - see THAT was an attempt to overthrow democracy - and doing so in a very violent way, and burning down property - if You had a business in Bangkok those days - You would and rightfully so be very nervous... Now there are free food, but donations are welcome, there are actually a tent from Samitivej too - You could have walked in there... As I said in an earlier comment - election d not automatically mean democracy has been enforced... There are many historical examples of leaders elected who was anything but democratic... If voting is mandatory (as it is in Thailand) then it sure opens up for many ways of forcefully making peoples vote for Your side, no matter what side is yours - this demonstration want to make reforms, and having more democracy, better rule set... learning from history is not such a bad thing actually, and a new election would just put Thailand back in the good old Thailand, with corruption, mismanagement and misuse of power - with reforms there at least is a slim chance things would change - ever so little - a step in the right direction is stil a step forward... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
englishoak Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 (edited) Tell you what why don't all you fascist supporters go over to the other thread and comment on how the Gestapo guards are stop and searching and robbing people and then metering out beatings ? Don't try give it any moral high ground, its gone and has been for a while. You cannot justify the methods, you cannot justify the ideal if it means becoming criminal and violent to do so, all of what you wish has become tainted and rotten by not self regulating your own corrupt and OTT protesters. Do it at the polls and election then get together and reform. I am not a gov supporter I do not like the policies i do not like the corruption but.... the protesters have gone way beyond a protest movement and this growing fascist ideal must be stopped. It is time to clear the protesters it is time to use whatever force is required and if people will not disperse then people should be forcefully made to by whatever level is required. Sadly to say if that means that people are or get injured so be it. Time to get real and stop playing games by indulging a few fascists. If there are true reform advocates they will recognise when their wishes are compromised and damaged by thier own or colleges actions. You go home you get to the polls and you lobby not this, not this mob rule violence building situation. It is destroying the countries harmony at a faster rate than any shin gov has. You cannot put Thailand back dont you get it yet ? things must move forward and that means compromise. Edited January 28, 2014 by englishoak 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scamper Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 " The protest site of protesters here was told to leave by the Center for the Maintaining of Peace and Order during a negotiation yesterday. " Oddly, this sentence seems to gain more weight from this story. Of course, it is also possible that - as always seems the case - we have the convenience of " third parties " - who strangely enough, also possess the inconvenient habit of seeming to be in sync with the motives of others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post MrJohnson Posted January 28, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted January 28, 2014 Hmmm - did You actually go into Bangkok ?? I have been to Victory monument, MBK and Asoke - no mob there - only peaceful peoples whisteling, listening to great music, some speakers - it's like a gigantic festival with tents, and small shops, MBK is crowded with peoples thais asd westerners on a buying spree... This is the most peaceful demonstration I have ever seen in any country at any time... Only bombes (I am pretty sure from peoples who do not want reforms) and the odd shooting down of political leaders (as it has happend before in Thailands history) but no one is talking about burning down anything here... Not ONE!! I live in Bangkok, Comrade. I can't get clients into my office because of the road closures. I spent an hour in traffic last week trying to get my daughter to Samitivej hospital because of that ridiculous closure of the Sukhumvit/Asoke intersection. While the opportunistic street vendors are making money selling essentail 'protest paraphenalia' the legitimate businesses who pay rent are going broke. Go ask any of the hoteliers or restaurantors. Non-violent or not - this demonstration aims to dislodge a democratically elected government. Like it or not, they were elected in a valid election. If the 'old guard' don't like it they have to get smart like Thaksin did and get people voting for them. Of course that may not sit well with many of the mob because many of them don't even believe in universal suffrage. There are many that believe that the rural poor are not 'educated' enough to vote. Now, there's a real problem. Well - You took the wrong route - I have a car, I go around in Bangkok - and sure I did not go to Asoke... But in the area there are many of the best hospitals in Bangkok - why did You let Your daughter suffer an hour in traffic when You could have chosen another hospital ?? No this demonstration tries in very peaceful way to make the general population aware that Thailand do not have true democracy, and they try to expain why reforms are a valid way of getting Thailand on track to democracy... That will of cause make some problems, but if You lived in Bangkok in 2010 then You would not use one hour getting Your kid to hospital, because being one hour outside in those days were very dangerous - I was in Bangkok in 2010 too, and in 2008 and in 2006 - this is so far the best bid to get Thailand forward... The 2010 red shirt was spawned because a small party followed the democratic rules and started to vote with the democrats - see THAT was an attempt to overthrow democracy - and doing so in a very violent way, and burning down property - if You had a business in Bangkok those days - You would and rightfully so be very nervous... Now there are free food, but donations are welcome, there are actually a tent from Samitivej too - You could have walked in there... As I said in an earlier comment - election d not automatically mean democracy has been enforced... There are many historical examples of leaders elected who was anything but democratic... If voting is mandatory (as it is in Thailand) then it sure opens up for many ways of forcefully making peoples vote for Your side, no matter what side is yours - this demonstration want to make reforms, and having more democracy, better rule set... learning from history is not such a bad thing actually, and a new election would just put Thailand back in the good old Thailand, with corruption, mismanagement and misuse of power - with reforms there at least is a slim chance things would change - ever so little - a step in the right direction is stil a step forward... Listen Sunshine. I don't need parenting advice from you, thanks very much. If you think that Suthep and his clique want reform then you are deluded. He wants no such thing. He wants a return to the good old days when the Bangkok elite could govern the rest of the country - stay middle class and keep the rest of the country poor. I am not a Thaksin supporter but Thaksin was smart enough to use the political process and the ballot bax to gain power. The fact that he may or may not have bought votes is irrelevant as all sides have been shown to have done likewise. If you think that Suthep is about ridding the country of corruption then you need to do a little research on the man and his record. I have no affiliations per se, in this matter. What I object to is being held to ransom by a noisy minority. As are many of my fellow Bangkok residents. You serve! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finkelstein Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Listen Sunshine. I don't need parenting advice from you, thanks very much. If you think that Suthep and his clique want reform then you are deluded. He wants no such thing. He wants a return to the good old days when the Bangkok elite could govern the rest of the country - stay middle class and keep the rest of the country poor. I am not a Thaksin supporter but Thaksin was smart enough to use the political process and the ballot bax to gain power. The fact that he may or may not have bought votes is irrelevant as all sides have been shown to have done likewise. If you think that Suthep is about ridding the country of corruption then you need to do a little research on the man and his record. I have no affiliations per se, in this matter. What I object to is being held to ransom by a noisy minority. As are many of my fellow Bangkok residents. You serve! No of cause You don't - I was merely pointing out that I would not have let my kids suffer... Being in an area of Bangkok with a lot of great hospitals... Well - this demonstration has as a target to reform, so we have to listen - as the reds had the target to burn down Bangkok, and kept their word, I think there might be a chance that this demonstration actually do mean what they say that they just want reforms before election... Thaksin used power - as peoples do not have a free choice weather they want to vote or not... If You own the poor and under educated peoples then they are much more prone to vote in Your direction... And they do, or maybe they just hand over the ID card and have someone helping them at the poll... Fascism is in it's historic concept exactly an uprising against royals, old money, aristocrats... And securing the votes from either a scared and intimidated population or populistic politics and propaganda - such as 50% raise in the minimum salery, a 40% raise in subsidiary (wich didn't come true) - a 100,000 TAX deduction presented as if peoples got 100,000 paid of a new car, not that is was a tax deduction, 15,000 for a new bachelor ( thus raising public expenses by 20%) and in the same time lowering the tax payment for incomes over 10,000,000 /year Look at the origin of fascism in Italy, Spain and Germany... Again history is a great teacher,,, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khonper Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 And here ladies and gentleman is how Shinawatra 'democracy' works. More like the people tired of these idiots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khonper Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Listen Sunshine. I don't need parenting advice from you, thanks very much. If you think that Suthep and his clique want reform then you are deluded. He wants no such thing. He wants a return to the good old days when the Bangkok elite could govern the rest of the country - stay middle class and keep the rest of the country poor. I am not a Thaksin supporter but Thaksin was smart enough to use the political process and the ballot bax to gain power. The fact that he may or may not have bought votes is irrelevant as all sides have been shown to have done likewise. If you think that Suthep is about ridding the country of corruption then you need to do a little research on the man and his record. I have no affiliations per se, in this matter. What I object to is being held to ransom by a noisy minority. As are many of my fellow Bangkok residents. You serve! No of cause You don't - I was merely pointing out that I would not have let my kids suffer... Being in an area of Bangkok with a lot of great hospitals... Well - this demonstration has as a target to reform, so we have to listen - as the reds had the target to burn down Bangkok, and kept their word, I think there might be a chance that this demonstration actually do mean what they say that they just want reforms before election... Thaksin used power - as peoples do not have a free choice weather they want to vote or not... If You own the poor and under educated peoples then they are much more prone to vote in Your direction... And they do, or maybe they just hand over the ID card and have someone helping them at the poll... Fascism is in it's historic concept exactly an uprising against royals, old money, aristocrats... And securing the votes from either a scared and intimidated population or populistic politics and propaganda - such as 50% raise in the minimum salery, a 40% raise in subsidiary (wich didn't come true) - a 100,000 TAX deduction presented as if peoples got 100,000 paid of a new car, not that is was a tax deduction, 15,000 for a new bachelor ( thus raising public expenses by 20%) and in the same time lowering the tax payment for incomes over 10,000,000 /year Look at the origin of fascism in Italy, Spain and Germany... Again history is a great teacher,,, I am pretty sure that they are the idols for Suthep, after all he wants to rule with his few friends alone. Reform is a very nice word that he just learned to say but has no clue whatever it means. He did had the chance to make his reform as a deputyPM before he was kicked out of gov because of his dirty business. But no reforms then either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khonper Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 (edited) Listen Sunshine. I don't need parenting advice from you, thanks very much. If you think that Suthep and his clique want reform then you are deluded. He wants no such thing. He wants a return to the good old days when the Bangkok elite could govern the rest of the country - stay middle class and keep the rest of the country poor. I am not a Thaksin supporter but Thaksin was smart enough to use the political process and the ballot bax to gain power. The fact that he may or may not have bought votes is irrelevant as all sides have been shown to have done likewise. If you think that Suthep is about ridding the country of corruption then you need to do a little research on the man and his record. I have no affiliations per se, in this matter. What I object to is being held to ransom by a noisy minority. As are many of my fellow Bangkok residents. You serve! No of cause You don't - I was merely pointing out that I would not have let my kids suffer... Being in an area of Bangkok with a lot of great hospitals... Well - this demonstration has as a target to reform, so we have to listen - as the reds had the target to burn down Bangkok, and kept their word, I think there might be a chance that this demonstration actually do mean what they say that they just want reforms before election... Thaksin used power - as peoples do not have a free choice weather they want to vote or not... If You own the poor and under educated peoples then they are much more prone to vote in Your direction... And they do, or maybe they just hand over the ID card and have someone helping them at the poll... Fascism is in it's historic concept exactly an uprising against royals, old money, aristocrats... And securing the votes from either a scared and intimidated population or populistic politics and propaganda - such as 50% raise in the minimum salery, a 40% raise in subsidiary (wich didn't come true) - a 100,000 TAX deduction presented as if peoples got 100,000 paid of a new car, not that is was a tax deduction, 15,000 for a new bachelor ( thus raising public expenses by 20%) and in the same time lowering the tax payment for incomes over 10,000,000 /year Look at the origin of fascism in Italy, Spain and Germany... Again history is a great teacher,,, Edited January 28, 2014 by Khonper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finkelstein Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 No of cause You don't - I was merely pointing out that I would not have let my kids suffer... Being in an area of Bangkok with a lot of great hospitals... Well - this demonstration has as a target to reform, so we have to listen - as the reds had the target to burn down Bangkok, and kept their word, I think there might be a chance that this demonstration actually do mean what they say that they just want reforms before election... Thaksin used power - as peoples do not have a free choice weather they want to vote or not... If You own the poor and under educated peoples then they are much more prone to vote in Your direction... And they do, or maybe they just hand over the ID card and have someone helping them at the poll... Fascism is in it's historic concept exactly an uprising against royals, old money, aristocrats... And securing the votes from either a scared and intimidated population or populistic politics and propaganda - such as 50% raise in the minimum salery, a 40% raise in subsidiary (wich didn't come true) - a 100,000 TAX deduction presented as if peoples got 100,000 paid of a new car, not that is was a tax deduction, 15,000 for a new bachelor ( thus raising public expenses by 20%) and in the same time lowering the tax payment for incomes over 10,000,000 /year Look at the origin of fascism in Italy, Spain and Germany... Again history is a great teacher,,, I am pretty sure that they are the idols for Suthep, after all he wants to rule with his few friends alone. Reform is a very nice word that he just learned to say but has no clue whatever it means. He did had the chance to make his reform as a deputyPM before he was kicked out of gov because of his dirty business. But no reforms then either. Of cause they are - the elite of Bangkok are morons - taxpaying morons that is - the idea of reforms need to mature before it can be reality - the reform of the christian church took 1600 years - now Suthep has learned from history - one thing he obviously has learned (You would too if You listend to what he is saying) is that he should not pursue power himself - Suthep is the leading figure of this movement - but in general not that popular - he has his own problems about corruption in the past to fight (he stayed in th country though)... So he is not interested in the power he is interested in getting reforms... And all of You who are opposed reforms has not yet produced one conviencing argument why reforms are a bad thing compared to status quo... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
americaninbangkok Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 "Rock"? small traces of gunpowder on a sandbag and a guard's ears hurt. Hardly "Rock". Yes, "rock". In the same way that TV is "news" or "journalism". All taken with a grain of salt (or sand). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pipkins Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 I'm pretty sure that IF the Pro democracy lot really wanted to, then the street of Bangkok would be awash with bodies and blood. Considering the pro democracy protesters are the ones being hit - that is a really odd statement... I have never seen a protest this big (anywhere in the world) and this peaceful - sadly those who want things to remain status quo, who do not want a change for Thailand, anti-reform peoples, is now using bombs (how ever small) and killing sprees to intimidate protesters... Sorry. perhaps I've missed something. The 'pro-democracy' people are the ones trying to oust a democratically-elected government and then thwart an election? Really? And these same people are holding the ordinary citizens of Bangkok to ransom, ruining the economy. What is pro-democracy about that? And the anti-reform people are those who disagree with an appointed council to run the country. Hmm. Tell us then, what was "pro-democracy" about the Red Shirts in 2010 holding Bangkok hostage, including all sorts of nefarious violence, from pulling soldiers out of trucks to beat them to death, to invading hospitals and setting up flammable explosive barricades at the emergency entrance, to harrassing those trying to go to their homes which were unfortunately located in the midst of the Red mobs, to burning and looting, to shooting unarmed protesters with RPGs....... what was so "democratic" about that? The constitution you all rant on about was approved by a popular referendum voted on and approved by the people, and your Thaksin wants to shred it because it doesn't suit him. How much did the Reds do to ruin the economy is 2010? Far more than this! Coup Coup Coup 2010 2010 Would love to see Thaivisa yellow posters Thail hisory books. "The entire history of Thailand ever... dating all the way back to the dawn of time in 2010" 2 pages long, one of them a pic of Suthep and Abhisit. Good news today, election on.. Coup off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
americaninbangkok Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 "Government negotiators said they would wait until today to hear a reply to their request but vowed not to use force to disperse protesters if they remain defiant. However protest leader Suthep Thaugsuban made clear last night protesters would not leave as their stay was part of the Shutdown Bangkok campaign to paralyze the government and make it a failed state." Both sides then took out their crayons and wrote letters (with pretty pictures) to President Obama. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
englishoak Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 (edited) Listen Sunshine. I don't need parenting advice from you, thanks very much. If you think that Suthep and his clique want reform then you are deluded. He wants no such thing. He wants a return to the good old days when the Bangkok elite could govern the rest of the country - stay middle class and keep the rest of the country poor. I am not a Thaksin supporter but Thaksin was smart enough to use the political process and the ballot bax to gain power. The fact that he may or may not have bought votes is irrelevant as all sides have been shown to have done likewise. If you think that Suthep is about ridding the country of corruption then you need to do a little research on the man and his record. I have no affiliations per se, in this matter. What I object to is being held to ransom by a noisy minority. As are many of my fellow Bangkok residents. You serve! Fascism is in it's historic concept exactly an uprising against royals, old money, aristocrats... And securing the votes from either a scared and intimidated population or populistic politics and propaganda - such as 50% raise in the minimum salery, a 40% raise in subsidiary (wich didn't come true) - a 100,000 TAX deduction presented as if peoples got 100,000 paid of a new car, not that is was a tax deduction, 15,000 for a new bachelor ( thus raising public expenses by 20%) and in the same time lowering the tax payment for incomes over 10,000,000 /year Look at the origin of fascism in Italy, Spain and Germany... Again history is a great teacher,,, Monarchists ceaselessly point out that worse regimes invariably replace monarchies, generally being Jacobin, Communist or inspired by such. However, it is also observable that the vacuum caused by the overthrow of monarchies has allowed ideologies and regimes described as "fascist" to rise, this is true. While the word "fascist" is too carelessly used, it is best to understand what fascism is. Fascism, unlike Communism, Nazism or most other ideologies, is not really a coherent ideology. Fascism is more a system that represents a synthesis of various ideological streams. Even the Nazis did not see themselves as Left or Right, but instead represented a synthesis of Left and Right ideas. Fascism is a form of government usually headed by a dictator admittedly but it goes further and can and has coexisted with other forms and Monarchistic rulers have willingly invited it in. It involves total government control of political, economic, cultural, religious and social activities. Some industries may be owned by individuals, but under government control. This form of government includes extreme patriotism, usually warlike policies and extreme discrimination against minority groups. It creeps in where it is allowed. Lets take Italy as you brought it up. In the wake of the First World War, Italy’s weak and corrupt liberal democratic government and powerless monarchy were ill-suited to deal with the crippling debt, inflation, and socialist agitations plaguing the nation. In this environment Benito Mussolini emerged as a source of hope, riding currents of nationalist sentiment and veteran discontent to a coup d’état: the 1922 March on Rome, which led King Victor Emmanuel III to invite Mussolini to form a government. This was very promising—a “conservative revolution” that sought to return to an idea of the state that the French Revolution had overthrown. Mussolini rejected both socialism and democracy, and tried to establish a state that came before and was superior to both the people and their history or aspirations. Mussolini himself evoked Classical Roman conceptions of authority (auctoritas) and political sovereignty (imperium), thus trying to link his regime to Ancient Rome. we know where it inexorably led. Fascism is far more complicated, dangerous and far reaching than you portray and can seep into all forms of governance even a democratic one.... further reading for you here.http://www.amren.com/features/2013/03/can-fascism-be-critiqued-from-the-right/ Thailand is being courted by Fascists with ideas and nationalism right now and should not be mistaken as anything but and it should be noted by Monarchists that this is a far bigger threat to them than it may first appear. Just my opinion. Edited January 28, 2014 by englishoak 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geronimo Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 pipkins post # 11 Blocking polling stations is anarchy and has to be stopped. Simple As is rampant corruption the manipulation of the judiciary, the legal system, nepotism and of course bail jumping by a convicted felon. Criminals evading the legal system by virtue of being co-opted as P.T.P puppet M.P.s. indeed the list is endless Now those actions are indeed anarchy. However as they are the policies of those you seem to blindly support you fail to see both the reality of the situation concerning your heroes and the irony of your post. Try googling Suthep and you will see real corruption! I've lived here for 32 years and the ONLY government that did anything for the poor was Thaksin's!! This government was democratically elected and any shouts about vote buying goes upon deaf ears as that has been happening for decades before Thaksin arrived on the scene. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dutchisaan Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 pipkins post # 11 Blocking polling stations is anarchy and has to be stopped. Simple As is rampant corruption the manipulation of the judiciary, the legal system, nepotism and of course bail jumping by a convicted felon. Criminals evading the legal system by virtue of being co-opted as P.T.P puppet M.P.s. indeed the list is endless Now those actions are indeed anarchy. However as they are the policies of those you seem to blindly support you fail to see both the reality of the situation concerning your heroes and the irony of your post. Try googling Suthep and you will see real corruption! I've lived here for 32 years and the ONLY government that did anything for the poor was Thaksin's!!This government was democratically elected and any shouts about vote buying goes upon deaf ears as that has been happening for decades before Thaksin arrived on the scene. Did you ever to try to Google Mr Dubai? Your hero? Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hansnl Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 I'm pretty sure that IF the Pro democracy lot really wanted to, then the street of Bangkok would be awash with bodies and blood. If you poke a sleeping dog with a stick, soon enough it's going to turn and bite you, Suthep seems to be weilding some pretty big sticks recently. I believe he's doing this intentionally to force the hand of the Army, and he will come out of the bucket of <deleted> smelling a lot sweeter than Yingluck. Lets face some reality, Thaksin has BILLIONS at his disposal, why waste time hiring small time thugs and crooks if the aim is to get at Suthep, why not bring in some nice Chechens who would be more than happy to drop Suthep from a distance, then go party in Pastong!! So many facebook pages filled with Cambodian Special Forces, in their truck loads entering the Kingdom, yes, SF always tends to highlight their covert activities in open backed white trucks!!! What'swrong with just flying in your hired Counter Terror team in with Air Asia, complete the task, and fly back out again? Murder and extreme violnce is wrong, it solves nothing,I've seen enough of it in Iraq since 2004. I wonder if those advocating it would feel the same if they suffered a home Invasion where they raped your wife/partner/boyfriend, and you, and then killed them, and left you with a broken bottle of corona stuffed into your arse!! The why Mr T is not hiring some thugs to kill Mr S is as follows: - Leaders do not kill each other, they only kill each other's underlings; - If Mr S would be killed the sh*t will really hit the ventilator and many more replacements of Mr S will stand up; - If Mr S would be killed, Mr T and Mrs Y will be blamed even if they are blameless (??), and could start a civil war, which is very bad for Mr T's business. - If Mr S would be killed, the life of Mr T and Mrs Y would be forfeit and probably some more members of Mr T's family; Mr C more or less made the mistake to want to arrest Mr S "dead or alive", thereby giving the green light for killings and beatings. And thereby condemning himself to, in the case of the protesters winning, to a court sentence that will not be funny. All this said, seen what is going on, one might think the reds and Mr T and Mrs Y are loosing ground. And today, in front of the army club, the police lost a huge amount of face. And rightly so. Sorry to say, but the police lost nearly all trust of all the people in the last days, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baerboxer Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 And here ladies and gentleman is how Shinawatra 'democracy' works. And Suthep 's democracy works by physically preventing people from voting. Let's face it. Both sides suck harder than a drowning whore. If you think killing someone in cold blood is the same as blocking a polling station youre truly a sorry person!! Blocking polling stations is anarchy and has to be stopped. Simple The World has never seen anti democracy march before. Just another failed coup attempt. Suthep screams Coup.. Army says no can do. Not up to the job aren't the army. They are split, factionalised and can't even cope in the south. Millions have died defending democracy on both sides. Stop bleating about it and accept fascism and totalitarianism must be stopped. In Thailand.. There are enough people to stop this!!! and they will. They just have to do it whilst keeping the army out. Sutheps stage is just a series of diktats to his dumb followers. He would be the same if he got back in power with his Poodles Council. Some are too dumb to see it and will just stay dumb and have to be swept asisde so democacy can prevail. Was it really anti-democracy or maybe anti-corrupt dictator law ignoring government protest? Whatever you think killing people is ok? So what happened in 2010 is fine in your book. Can't have double standards now can we. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taony Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 This thread title is kind of alarmist. When reading the headlines I've been fooled 3 or 4 times already, my heart skips a beat before I realize. It reads like breaking news, when really its about a few tiny bombs that were thrown overnight - which is something that's been occuring with some regularity. Maybe the word "overnight" could be added at least? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finkelstein Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 This government was democratically elected and any shouts about vote buying goes upon deaf ears as that has been happening for decades before Thaksin arrived on the scene. Good so You surely agree that reforms are needed right ?? To prevent vote buying... Another one agree... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Local Drunk Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 (edited) The mysterious third hand strikes again! At least the bloody Jiadist have the balls to claim responsibility for their acts. I guess we have to wait for Thaiksin to grow a pair. Edited January 28, 2014 by Local Drunk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulic Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 I'm pretty sure that IF the Pro democracy lot really wanted to, then the street of Bangkok would be awash with bodies and blood. Considering the pro democracy protesters are the ones being hit - that is a really odd statement... I have never seen a protest this big (anywhere in the world) and this peaceful - sadly those who want things to remain status quo, who do not want a change for Thailand, anti-reform peoples, is now using bombs (how ever small) and killing sprees to intimidate protesters... Not sure I understand, the anti government mob with Pro Democracy in there name want to stop the voting process and have the country led by an unelected council, selected by one man, but the guys who want to vote for some reason you consider them un-democratic. I think you are confused. Do you consider Democratic Republic of North Korea a democracy because it is in there name. How about Democratic Republic of Congo. If you do then I guess democracy is just a name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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