Your alternatives to caffeine for stimulation of thought and relief from depression?

[fittobethaied]

During my pre-adult years I was a heavy drinker of caffeinated sodas and for most of my adult life I drank 6-8 cups of caffeinated coffee every day. Shorty after retiring to Thailand nearly 4 years ago I developed a caffeine allergy and now I am caffeine intolerant and have had to give it up completely in all of its forms...tea, coffee, chocolates, soda drinks, etc. The caffeine becomes poisonous to my body and the side effects resemble anaphylactic shock. As a result of ceasing consumption of caffeine I have become lethargic and somewhat depressed, and I am in dire need of some sort of a "pick-me-up" that might have the same stimulating effects as caffeine, but without the disastrous side effects. I am way past the withdrawal stages, having given up the caffeine nearly 3 years ago, but perhaps once every two weeks I will have one small cup of coffee and for several hours my attitude improves and I become very outgoing and friendly to everyone that I meet. I am full of energy and I want to write, create, set goals, go shopping...in other words the caffeine stimulates thought and I feel alive again. Then after 8 hours or so the side effects kick in and I struggle to sleep through the night, then I awake to the doldrums once again the following morning.

I am fairly certain that the sluggishness and the feeling of doom and gloom are more related to some sort of chemical imbalance rather than my physical or mental health. I am 66 years old and in excellent health. I don't drink alcohol or smoke, I follow a nutritious and balanced diet and do a brisk two mile walk every evening. I do two complete physical exams per year and the doctors say that I am a picture of health for my age. I am also happily married and without stress, except for the normal frustrations that most Westerners experience when living in Thailand.

So, I am writing this post in the hopes that there may be others out there who are having this same experience and you have found a safe alternative to the caffeine that is able to keep you enthused from day to day. Please don't respond with a laundry list of illegal drugs and off-color jokes/comments, but rather some serious advice on alternatives such as prescription drugs or herbs that have been a specific help to you. I have already tried a 3 week regimen of Xanax, which is an addicting benzodiazephine, and it just didn't work for me. I have also visited at least three neurologists and none of them were able to come up with a diagnosis or a solution, and neither of them were even aware that caffeine intolerance existed in view of the fact that it is a fairly common occurance.

I will sincerely appreciate any constructive comments and advice!

[Sheryl]

Xanax and other benzos = a depressent, the last thing one would want to take for a problem of lethargy/depression!!

If a psych med is indicated it would be an antidepressent such as one of the SSRIs.

but you might like to try 5-HTP first, works for some people.

Also - in the ocurse of your physical exams have you had a full thyroid panel done? testosterone levels?

[fittobethaied]

Xanax and other benzos = a depressent, the last thing one would want to take for a problem of lethargy/depression!!

If a psych med is indicated it would be an antidepressent such as one of the SSRIs.

but you might like to try 5-HTP first, works for some people.

Also - in the ocurse of your physical exams have you had a full thyroid panel done? testosterone levels?

Thanks for your concern Sheryl! Yes...the thyroid and testosterone are okay. I'll look into the 5-HTP. I've heard of it but doubt that it would be available in Thailand as a supplement. I'll check!

[Tolley]

You need to get proper hormone testing done DHEA, E1, E2 Free T .

Good luck.

[meom]

An alternative way would be to try sexual stimulation without ejaculation/orgasm.

Arousal will elevate your dopamine level and skipping ejaculation will prevent the release of prolactin.

Dopamine and prolaction work against eachother so in the absence of a prolactin increase your dopamine levels remain elevated for some time.

[Jack Mountain]

Some tea maybe? Walk more then 2 miles, go off the road and get tired and you feel better ...

What I noticed is all those medical checks you do while having a good health, why's that? hypochondria?

Pity you don't drink btw, it's a life saver for some of us ...

[jackr]

As an aside, do you think you are dehydrated?

[infinity11]

interesting thread/OP

and sorry if the following sounds weird or off color:

health problems may and can be closely related to how you align your heart and mind

it is extremely difficult to change BUT you can try tuning in and noticing who and what you actually are, and doing some research and practice

perfect health and well being may actually begin and come from within

perhaps in the future this will become more of a mainstream approach

though there is not incentive or financial gain for health care and other industries

and/or one may find excellent results with fish (protein) regular strenuous exercise and low/no stress,

a bit of direct sun light might also help, the list is endless, best of luck

[CaptHaddock]

I would recommend vigorous exercise. Walking is good exercise, but does not get the endorphins rolling. There are many studies that show that exercise is effective against depression for many people, although the effect is not exactly like caffeine. I swim every day and feel a deep satisfaction for hours afterward. Running, weight training, rowing, etc. could all work.

As a stimulant you might try ginseng. People claim that it gives them energy.

[SailingHome]

During my pre-adult years I was a heavy drinker of caffeinated sodas and for most of my adult life I drank 6-8 cups of caffeinated coffee every day. Shorty after retiring to Thailand nearly 4 years ago I developed a caffeine allergy and now I am caffeine intolerant and have had to give it up completely in all of its forms...tea, coffee, chocolates, soda drinks, etc. The caffeine becomes poisonous to my body and the side effects resemble anaphylactic shock. As a result of ceasing consumption of caffeine I have become lethargic and somewhat depressed, and I am in dire need of some sort of a "pick-me-up" that might have the same stimulating effects as caffeine, but without the disastrous side effects. I am way past the withdrawal stages, having given up the caffeine nearly 3 years ago, but perhaps once every two weeks I will have one small cup of coffee and for several hours my attitude improves and I become very outgoing and friendly to everyone that I meet. I am full of energy and I want to write, create, set goals, go shopping...in other words the caffeine stimulates thought and I feel alive again. Then after 8 hours or so the side effects kick in and I struggle to sleep through the night, then I awake to the doldrums once again the following morning.

I am fairly certain that the sluggishness and the feeling of doom and gloom are more related to some sort of chemical imbalance rather than my physical or mental health. I am 66 years old and in excellent health. I don't drink alcohol or smoke, I follow a nutritious and balanced diet and do a brisk two mile walk every evening. I do two complete physical exams per year and the doctors say that I am a picture of health for my age. I am also happily married and without stress, except for the normal frustrations that most Westerners experience when living in Thailand.

So, I am writing this post in the hopes that there may be others out there who are having this same experience and you have found a safe alternative to the caffeine that is able to keep you enthused from day to day. Please don't respond with a laundry list of illegal drugs and off-color jokes/comments, but rather some serious advice on alternatives such as prescription drugs or herbs that have been a specific help to you. I have already tried a 3 week regimen of Xanax, which is an addicting benzodiazephine, and it just didn't work for me. I have also visited at least three neurologists and none of them were able to come up with a diagnosis or a solution, and neither of them were even aware that caffeine intolerance existed in view of the fact that it is a fairly common occurance.

I will sincerely appreciate any constructive comments and advice!

I had the same issues. PM me and we can talk.

[Kitsune]

Juicing

1. Celery
2. Spinach
3. Kale
4. Collard Greens
5. Lettuce
6. Carrots
7. Cucumber (not as bad if you peel the skin)

[RandomSand]

OP, your text is very long but my reply is very simple.

Hark, doctor who? Internet doctor, that's who, and I'm here to help.

Hear this:

1. Do not consume any more caffine.

2. Do not consume excess sugar.

3. Eat Vegetables and freshly butchered meat as your food.

4. In general, eat foods that are alive. A simple way to know if foods are alive is this: a. Does it decay and go mouldy? b. do soi dogs want to eat it?

5. Drink water as your fluid.

6. Get exercise and fresh air, perhaps have a swim.

Take this prescription daily and see how you go on.

[edwardandtubs]

Why do you think you need some magic pill to solve your problems? Just get off your backside and stay active. Porn can work wonders as well.

Edited February 8, 2014 by edwardandtubs

[4evermaat]

Juicing

1. Celery
2. Spinach
3. Kale
4. Collard Greens
5. Lettuce
6. Carrots
7. Cucumber (not as bad if you peel the skin)

I concur, but I would start with 2-5 of your favorite fruits and/or veggies. Juice, blend, or any combination of the two.

A nut (cashews, almonds, walnuts, etc) would also be helpful to snack on.

[thefamilyjules]

Some tea maybe? Walk more then 2 miles, go off the road and get tired and you feel better ...

What I noticed is all those medical checks you do while having a good health, why's that? hypochondria?

Pity you don't drink btw, it's a life saver for some of us ...

All of the above is nonsense, except for maybe the walk more than 2 miles part.

Decaffeinated tea? Regular medical checkups, especially for older persons, are healthy not hypochonriasis. Alcohol is no one's savior.

Some good advice herein so far, apart from this goofy bit. Fish oil is one of few supplements proven to actually do what it claims to do. Omega 3's aid in brain functioning and increase serotonin levels, as does eating fish, of course. Decent imported brands are widely available here.

[Jack Mountain]

Some tea maybe? Walk more then 2 miles, go off the road and get tired and you feel better ...

What I noticed is all those medical checks you do while having a good health, why's that? hypochondria?

Pity you don't drink btw, it's a life saver for some of us ...

All of the above is nonsense, except for maybe the walk more than 2 miles part.

Decaffeinated tea? Regular medical checkups, especially for older persons, are healthy not hypochonriasis. Alcohol is no one's savior.

Some good advice herein so far, apart from this goofy bit. Fish oil is one of few supplements proven to actually do what it claims to do. Omega 3's aid in brain functioning and increase serotonin levels, as does eating fish, of course. Decent imported brands are widely available here.

Sigh

[buckoy]

I would take hemp oil rather than fish oils for omega-3 and omega-6. Hemp oil has a perfect 3:1 ratio of omega-6 to omega-3 essential fatty acids, which matches the balance required by the human body and hemp oil is less contaminated and more organic than fish oils.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[infinity11]

Some tea maybe? Walk more then 2 miles, go off the road and get tired and you feel better ...

What I noticed is all those medical checks you do while having a good health, why's that? hypochondria?

Pity you don't drink btw, it's a life saver for some of us ...

All of the above is nonsense, except for maybe the walk more than 2 miles part.

Decaffeinated tea? Regular medical checkups, especially for older persons, are healthy not hypochonriasis. Alcohol is no one's savior.

Some good advice herein so far, apart from this goofy bit. Fish oil is one of few supplements proven to actually do what it claims to do. Omega 3's aid in brain functioning and increase serotonin levels, as does eating fish, of course. Decent imported brands are widely available here.

I read on TV that these oils can go bad or rancid with bad health results, how do you know if they are good and ok or they are bad? Besides the expiration date.

[infinity11]

I would take hemp oil rather than fish oils for omega-3 and omega-6. Hemp oil has a perfect 3:1 ratio of omega-6 to omega-3 essential fatty acids, which matches the balance required by the human body and hemp oil is less contaminated and more organic than fish oils.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Available in Thailand? Legal?

[buckoy]

You can buy online, just need to check if it's legal, it is in the uk but can't honestly say if it is in Thailand.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[payanak]

Can't believe no one has mentioned Provigil/Modafinil. This is as close to the silver bullet as you will find. You will get the emitional and creative lift you seek with little or no side effects. Not available in Thailand but you can order online. Best for the money is from India. I will assume forum rules prevent me from giving a specific name. Get busy with your browser and do your own homework.

Most of the supplements mentioned here are nonsense, supported by poorly done studies and bad science.. Their only benefit is from placebo effect and wishful thinking. The only exception to this is Testosterone. At 66 you almost surely could benefit from some additional injections of this. Never mind the hype you read about any benefit from oral supplements. The fact that yur testosterone levels are normal is pretty meaningless. Most blood testosterone. is protein bound and physiologically unavailable. You must get the test for free testosterone.

[infinity11]

There are a zillion things i can do to lift my mood, many require no medication whatsoever, however motivation desire and drive seem to be so affected, it is easy to get trapped.

It is a very good topic and much can be said.

For now i am finding it is about habit of thought, heart and behavior.

I am starting to believe that is actually possible to train myself to be a (much) happier person.

[SailingHome]

Can't believe no one has mentioned Provigil/Modafinil. This is as close to the silver bullet as you will find. You will get the emitional and creative lift you seek with little or no side effects. Not available in Thailand but you can order online. Best for the money is from India. I will assume forum rules prevent me from giving a specific name. Get busy with your browser and do your own homework.

Most of the supplements mentioned here are nonsense, supported by poorly done studies and bad science.. Their only benefit is from placebo effect and wishful thinking. The only exception to this is Testosterone. At 66 you almost surely could benefit from some additional injections of this. Never mind the hype you read about any benefit from oral supplements. The fact that yur testosterone levels are normal is pretty meaningless. Most blood testosterone. is protein bound and physiologically unavailable. You must get the test for free testosterone.

Yes, Provigil would be a good choice, however OP is showing signs of either dopamine loss or excessive uptake. As well, his functional seroronin levels are causing problems. Provigil can actually exacerbate the situation.

100% agreed on the sups and Testosterone, except for the need for a test of free testosterone. At 66 or even at 40, if you feel you need more, just do it. Start with an SHGB inhibitor (low dose Proviron or Winstrol, for example are cheap) and if not enough (because your own Test is not being produced) then go for injections.

YMMV, I am not a doctor, but have a lot more experience that I wish.

[SailingHome]

OP, your text is very long but my reply is very simple.

Hark, doctor who? Internet doctor, that's who, and I'm here to help.

Hear this:

1. Do not consume any more caffine.

2. Do not consume excess sugar.

3. Eat Vegetables and freshly butchered meat as your food.

4. In general, eat foods that are alive. A simple way to know if foods are alive is this: a. Does it decay and go mouldy? b. do soi dogs want to eat it?

5. Drink water as your fluid.

6. Get exercise and fresh air, perhaps have a swim.

Take this prescription daily and see how you go on.

This and the juicing will make him (anybody) feel better and give 'clean' energy as opposed to 'buzz' energy, guranteed. However, dopamine has to be treated - the reason only coffee works and the facts of the low dopamine symptoms... looks like a duck, acts like a duck, so feed it like a duck. If a dopamine agonist (feed the duck duck food) does not work, I will be HIGHLY surprised.

I've helped a few guys on here with this as I had the same problem all my life. Let'a keep this thread around for others to read.

[RandomSand]

I've got an idea. Try meditating.

[infinity11]

Yes, if it is not about diet exercise or attitude then it is ONLY a patch.

However this is the general and perhaps western reductionist non-holistic approach.

The body can and will take care of itself if you take care of it.

up to you

whatever works for you

best of luck

[infinity11]

a couple of clarifications

i am NO ONE to tell anyone else what is best for them

we tend to focus on the symptoms and not the real and true causes

easier? i suppose

[infinity11]

apologies if you'll are sick of me posting (here)

let me add:

if you wear glasses often,

to take them off for a few moments now and then and let all of the sun's frequencies get into your eyeball and retina, indirectly is ok, you don't need to be staring or looking directly into the sun

[lgking]

Reviewing my diet a few months ago, I came to the conclusion that I might be Vitamin B-12 deficiant. My researched showed that you can not OD on the supplement, so I decided to try some (very cheap in Thailand...Chula Pharmacy across from MBK), and one of the immediate effects was an unexpected elevation in my mood.

For what it's worth...

http://www.elephantjournal.com/2013/05/40-of-us-are-vitamin-b12-deficient-are-you/

[ginglee]

The problem is you were living in the 'buzz' zone for many years- with that amount of caffine in your system. Now that stimulant is taken away your feeling normal, may not feel like it but you are. You live a very healthy life- so I guess you're feelign a lot better than most 66 yr olds. I'm still sctaching my head though why someone would prescribe you Xanax to get you going- it does the opposite.

It's good you get a health check every year, I presume this would include your full bloods. It would be interesting to see what your test levels are. It's already been mentioned that you could benefit from extra test. If you want to try, start with the capsules or the gel(put on the skin) , I'm sure you will feel a lot better within a few weeks.

Failing that I guess you could try other stumulants, like; Ephidrine, verba mate, guayusa, chat ....list goes on, many natrual stumulants out there...