Computer build.

RandomSand · February 9, 2014

I've got Windows 7 loaded on a 80GB Intel SSD and 45GB is partitioned as c: drive. After all the Microsoft updates and a only a few programs; I'm nearly out of space.

If I was building again I'd go with 120GB SSD at a minimum.

For web browsing and emailing with a light anti-virus; an Intel Core-i3 is good enough. However; as CPU lock-up at ull utilisation is not nice, depending on your usage, higher (i7) is preferred. If you don't know that you need a fast CPU then you probably don't. Anti-virus sucks loads of CPU so depending of your protection you may/may not need a faster CPU. Internet protection "suites" that ring fence everything use too many resources imho.

Germinally speaking; when building a system it makes sense to balance the components so there's no bottlenecks.

Edited February 9, 2014 by RandomSand

RandomSand · February 9, 2014

The components I listed in a post on page#1 of this thread comprise a well balanced system within your budget... although the GFX card is full height so wouldn't fit into the small 1/2 height case I mentioned. Silverstone, CoolerMaster and Lian-Li are some good cases available in Thailand.

You don't need a massive PSU unless you have a top-end GFX card. Even with a Nvidia GTX 650, a 400w PSU is fine.

There's usually less compatibility problem when building Intel CPU paired with nvidia gfx cards compared with an AMD CPU system or Intel CPU paired with AMD/ATI gfx cards.

If moving from laptop to desktop; don't forget a battery backup for the CPU. I bought a Thai branded one from ITCity. It was cheaper than my old APC and had USB to make the CPU hibernate (which the APC lacked).

Edited February 9, 2014 by RandomSand

manarak · February 9, 2014

I am also thinking about building my own rig and have a couple of questions:

I am mainly surfing and watching movies and play a game now and again.

I run a Dell U2713HM and a dated 22" Samsung monitor that I will likely update soon.

Is a 60GB SSD drive enoufh for the OP system, running with 2 pcs 2 TB HD's?

Is a top i5 prossesor fast enough? Or better go for a i7?

I need USB 3.0 and min 2 of them.

Thinking about getting Win 8.1 but are not firm on that yet.

I think we have a JIB store in Pattaya so I will go and check them out when coming back from overseas work in March month.

I don't have a buget but would like to keep it at say at 30-35K baht (monitor not included), desk top only.

I don't run the AC much in my office in the house, only in the hot months when the heat can be too much so I need sturdy componments and a good case with big fans.

After 3 years, my C: drive occupies 86 GB of space, this includes all updates.

These 86GB include 12 GB swap and 30 GB User Files and some applications. I install most applications on a mechanical HDD instead of the main system SSD, and only

Windows settings can be tweaked to store the "user files" on another drive as well, so a 80 GB SSD drive (i.e. smallish) is fine for Windows. If you don't want to do any tweaking, you will need 120 GB SSD.

Top i5 is fine for most applications including games.

With 35k baht you can buy a good system including monitor and SSD.

Be sure to buy at least 8GB of RAM.

Personally I would go with Win 7 home premium edition and wait for the next Windows to be released to upgrade.

I tried Windows 8, and my opinion is that this is not a computer OS, it was made for phones and tablets and gives no advantage over win 7.

Regarding the sturdy graphics card, I'd go with AMD. Over the years I've had several Nvidia based cards die because of heating issues, but no Radeon so far. I'd go with the Radeon 7770, excellent value for 100 USD (or 7790 for 120 USD).

Edited February 9, 2014 by manarak

guzzi850m2 · February 9, 2014

Thanks for your input guys.

120 gb SSD it is then.

I have Win7 64 bit on my HP desk top pc and it is good and I have Win8 with classic shell installed on my Dell ultra book and it is okay. I think the updated Win 8.1 should be more PC based than the first release?

I think I want a sound card as well and some good speakers as I love listen to good music.

I have 8 GB ram on both PC's but I think the extra 4gb ram on the Dell are wasted (got it for free when buying the Dell in Singapoe) as the CPU is often on 100% usage (i5-3230M @ 2.60Ghz) and the Ram usage is ticking away at < 25% so that why I am worried if a i5 processor is sufficient. I also have an i5 on the HP but a better one (I am not home right now so can't check which) and that one is also sometimes blasting away at 100%.

manarak · February 9, 2014

Thanks for your input guys.

120 gb SSD it is then.

I have Win7 64 bit on my HP desk top pc and it is good and I have Win8 with classic shell installed on my Dell ultra book and it is okay. I think the updated Win 8.1 should be more PC based than the first release?

I think I want a sound card as well and some good speakers as I love listen to good music.

I have 8 GB ram on both PC's but I think the extra 4gb ram on the Dell are wasted (got it for free when buying the Dell in Singapoe) as the CPU is often on 100% usage (i5-3230M @ 2.60Ghz) and the Ram usage is ticking away at < 25% so that why I am worried if a i5 processor is sufficient. I also have an i5 on the HP but a better one (I am not home right now so can't check which) and that one is also sometimes blasting away at 100%.

8 GB RAM wouldnt be wasted, it's cheap anyway

About the i5, there are quite large differences in performance between models, depends mostly on frequencies and sizes of cache.

Tywais · February 9, 2014

I think the updated Win 8.1 should be more PC based than the first release?

One of the biggies of the 8.1 update is that it brings the Start menu back.

JSixpack · February 9, 2014

Thanks for your input guys.

120 gb SSD it is then.

Good. You can get by on less but at the cost of greater inconvenience.

I think I want a sound card as well and some good speakers as I love listen to good music.

Every sound card has its friends and enemies. Usually the issue is the drivers--and the user.

I have an Asus and I like it a lot. Its software sound manager has advantages and disadvantages but we coexist peacefully.

http://shop.busitek.com/asus/1268-asus-xonar-dx.html

You can spend a fortune on sound equipment, needless to say. You've read this thread:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/702564-upgraded-pc-speakers-wow/#entry7408112

I much prefer the small integrated amp + bookshelf speakers, but that's more expensive. Piyanas has Polk Audio speakers, good quality, good prices (no import tax ripoff):

http://www.piyanas.com/showroom/en/product.html?page=shop.browse&category_id=697

I bought my little amp in the USA; I dunno where to buy them in Thailand. Maybe somebody knows--that would be helpful information.

One item not mentioned in the thread is a great keyboard for a system you're investing B30,000 in. A backlit mechanical keyboard is quite nice to have. You can research the permutations.

There's a limited selection of such in Thailand. Here's what invadit has (or claims to have, contact first!), not all backlit:

http://www.invadeit.co.th/search/mechanical-keyboard/

I saw this Razer in JIB the other day and it was SO wonderful I wished I some excuse to get it, as I have a Keycool already:

http://www.invadeit.co.th/product/keyboards/razer/blackwidow-ultimate-2013-stealth-edition-p018243/

For a great compact model: http://www.invadeit.co.th/product/keyboards/cm-storm/quick-fire-tk-mechanical-gaming-keyboard-blue-switch-sgk-4020-gkcl1-p017442/

dave_boo · February 9, 2014

Thanks for your input guys.

120 gb SSD it is then.

Good. You can get by on less but at the cost of greater inconvenience.

I think I want a sound card as well and some good speakers as I love listen to good music.

Every sound card has its friends and enemies. Usually the issue is the drivers--and the user.

I have an Asus and I like it a lot. Its software sound manager has advantages and disadvantages but we coexist peacefully.

http://shop.busitek.com/asus/1268-asus-xonar-dx.html

You can spend a fortune on sound equipment, needless to say. You've read this thread:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/702564-upgraded-pc-speakers-wow/#entry7408112

I much prefer the small integrated amp + bookshelf speakers, but that's more expensive. Piyanas has Polk Audio speakers, good quality, good prices (no import tax ripoff):

http://www.piyanas.com/showroom/en/product.html?page=shop.browse&category_id=697

I bought my little amp in the USA; I dunno where to buy them in Thailand. Maybe somebody knows--that would be helpful information.

One item not mentioned in the thread is a great keyboard for a system you're investing B30,000 in. A backlit mechanical keyboard is quite nice to have. You can research the permutations.

There's a limited selection of such in Thailand. Here's what invadit has (or claims to have, contact first!), not all backlit:

http://www.invadeit.co.th/search/mechanical-keyboard/

I saw this Razer in JIB the other day and it was SO wonderful I wished I some excuse to get it, as I have a Keycool already:

http://www.invadeit.co.th/product/keyboards/razer/blackwidow-ultimate-2013-stealth-edition-p018243/

For a great compact model: http://www.invadeit.co.th/product/keyboards/cm-storm/quick-fire-tk-mechanical-gaming-keyboard-blue-switch-sgk-4020-gkcl1-p017442/

There's been talk over on head-fi about the Asrock Z87 line up which, when noted about 'audio purity', has the AC1150. 115dB SNR and 7.1 encoding are pretty nice. Some even offer a decent 600ohm front panel headphone amp (TI NE5532).

I've been pleased with jetliveaudio; they're more dedicated to headphones, but had decent price on the Audioengine A2 set which I got for my daughter. Without the add-on sub they are not for most people (think laptop levels of bass 65-22khz) but the sound is subliminal with the right source. She has them piped through a Fiio E07K/E09K combo and enjoys the sounds for her VCDs and Farmville games. I can't control her tastes, but I can make sure she has the best setup I can.

newcomer01 · February 10, 2014

SSD Prices JIB 08 Feb 2014

256 Samsung 840 pro 8700

512 Samsung 840 Pro 20500

512 Plextor 15550

JSixpack · February 10, 2014

SSD Prices JIB 08 Feb 2014

256 Samsung 840 pro 8700

512 Samsung 840 Pro 20500

512 Plextor 15550

120 GB. SAMSUNG 840 EVO SSD (MZ-7TE120BW) - 0454004364 Capacity : 120 GB.

Read : 540 MB/s

Write : 410 MB/s 3,790 บาท

Here's the selection:

http://www.jib.co.th/web/index.php/product/listCategory/2/924/0/index.html

guzzi850m2 · February 14, 2014

Interesting topic.

If I go for a better/newer grafics card like this one:

http://www.jib.co.th/web/index.php/product/listCategory/2/1314/0/index.html

will the top i5 cpu be okay?

And will I benefit having 16 GB of ram and not 8?

I still want the 120GB SSH and most likely Win 8.1 and then have 2 pcs 2TB hard drives for photos/TV stuff/music/e-books.

Regarding power supplies I think that above vga card requires min 500W and then posilbe a sound card later so what size power supply sould I get?

I will assume that it is better to have power reserves so as an eksample if I go for say 650W I will not overload the power supply unit?

I am sorry about the stupid questons but some of you guys knows your PC stuff and the i-net here on my ship is very slow.

Edited February 14, 2014 by guzzi850m2

guzzi850m2 · February 25, 2014

I have been digging into what to get for my next PC:

Main Board: socket 1150-AsRock Z87 Pro4= 4300 baht

Power supply: 750W app. 3500 baht (not sure if 750W is enough?)

CPU: Intel i7 4770 = 10800 (I don't want to overclock so no need for a K model)

Hard disk 1: Samsung 250GB 840EVO SSD= 6650 baht

Hard disk 2 & 3: 2TB WD sata III 64mb (green) 2 X 3000= 6000 baht

Software: WIN 8.1 64 bit OEM= 3500 baht

Grafics card: GeForce GTX 760 = 9900 baht

RAM: 1X 16 GB= 6000 baht

CPU cooler: app 1500 baht

Fan Case= 3000-5000 baht.

Total: 55-60 K baht.

All taken from the JIB on-line store.

Perhaps later a sound card but the JIB store don't have any I fancy.

What do you guys think about above components and will any of them be a "bottle neck" in the system?

Okay frankly I don't need such a powerfull machine but all the Ferrari owners don't need all their horse power either but it's still nice to have right?

guzzi850m2 · February 25, 2014

I calculated the power cons. from this site: http://www.buildcomputers.net/pc-power-requirements.html

Components

High End CPU (Intel Core i7)
Aftermarket CPU Heatsink Fan
High End Motherboard
RAM Modules x 2
High End Graphics Card ($251 to $400)
Dedicated Sound Card
Solid State Drive
3.5" Hard Disk Drive
Blu ray Drive
Case Fans x 4

Gaming PC Power Requirements

Max Power Consumption

95 W
12 W
80 W
6 W
258 W
15 W
3 W
9 W
30 W
24 W

532 Watts

innerspace · February 25, 2014

Depends a bit on the motherboard but I would think carefully about the Ram.

If MB has only 2 slots (didnt check) and you plan to later upgrade to 32gb then a single 16gb is the right choice. Anything else get 2x8gb.

2 matching sticks can benefit from dual channel mode which is faster. 8gb sticks are also still slightly better value for money than 16.

So if you have 4 slots or dont plan to upgrade then 2x8 will be cheaper and faster than a single 16.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

guzzi850m2 · February 26, 2014

Depends a bit on the motherboard but I would think carefully about the Ram.

If MB has only 2 slots (didnt check) and you plan to later upgrade to 32gb then a single 16gb is the right choice. Anything else get 2x8gb.

2 matching sticks can benefit from dual channel mode which is faster. 8gb sticks are also still slightly better value for money than 16.

So if you have 4 slots or dont plan to upgrade then 2x8 will be cheaper and faster than a single 16.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Many thanks for the tip.

I am also thinking about another Mainboad: Gigabyte H87-D3H which is app 3500 baht and a 3 year warrenty.

Will goggle a bit around and check.

Tywais · February 26, 2014

If MB has only 2 slots (didnt check) and you plan to later upgrade to 32gb then a single 16gb is the right choice. Anything else get 2x8gb.

2 matching sticks can benefit from dual channel mode which is faster. 8gb sticks are also still slightly better value for money than 16.

Most boards now use DDR3 including the one above. To make the most use of the triple channel mode of DDR3 than the 3 memory slots need to be populated.

However from what I've researched in the past dual or triple channel only gives a few percent improvement in performance.

steve187 · February 26, 2014

I am also thinking about building my own rig and have a couple of questions:

I am mainly surfing and watching movies and play a game now and again.

I run a Dell U2713HM and a dated 22" Samsung monitor that I will likely update soon.

Is a 60GB SSD drive enoufh for the OP system, running with 2 pcs 2 TB HD's?

Is a top i5 prossesor fast enough? Or better go for a i7?

I need USB 3.0 and min 2 of them.

Thinking about getting Win 8.1 but are not firm on that yet.

I think we have a JIB store in Pattaya so I will go and check them out when coming back from overseas work in March month.

I don't have a buget but would like to keep it at say at 30-35K baht (monitor not included), desk top only.

I don't run the AC much in my office in the house, only in the hot months when the heat can be too much so I need sturdy componments and a good case with big fans.

look at hardware house in tukcom a few doors from jib, choose a coolermaster case and the spec you want they will put it all together for you good prices and staff

Edited February 26, 2014 by steve187

NeverSure · February 26, 2014

I'm sorry if someone already mentioned it, but be sure to get the 64 bit and not the 32 bit operating system. The 32 bit can't "see" more than 4 GB of ram.

dave_boo · February 26, 2014

If MB has only 2 slots (didnt check) and you plan to later upgrade to 32gb then a single 16gb is the right choice. Anything else get 2x8gb.

2 matching sticks can benefit from dual channel mode which is faster. 8gb sticks are also still slightly better value for money than 16.

Most boards now use DDR3 including the one above. To make the most use of the triple channel mode of DDR3 than the 3 memory slots need to be populated.

However from what I've researched in the past dual or triple channel only gives a few percent improvement in performance.

Stuck on socket 1366 are we?

Since the memory controller on all modern system is on die with the CPU, there is no correlation between the DDR "classification" and the number of channels.

Sockets 775, 1156, 1366, 1155, 1150, P, G1, G2, G3 from Intel and AM2+, AM3, FM1, FM2, FM2+, socket C32, FS1 from AMD all support dual channel DDR3.

Socket 1366 from Intel supports triple channel DDR3.

Socket 2011 from Intel and socket G34 from AMD supports quad channel DDR3.

You are right about the performance benefits for a 'regular' workload. But for certain things (I look at transcoding others look at production) even a 4 fps speed up means that you can save huge amounts of times on either a render or a transcode. And if you are doing it for business it can make you money because you can do more projects in the same amount of time.

guzzi850m2 · February 26, 2014

look at hardware house in tukcom a few doors from jib, choose a coolermaster case and the spec you want they will put it all together for you good prices and staff

Thanks, I will check it out when I come back from work.

But with a small shop like that, what happens if you have problems with your new PC, how is the warranty? JIB is a nation wide shop chain so that sould be better if a problem surface later on.

I know from bitter experince that some shops in tuk.com are very good and some are very bad regarding helping you out later on.

JSixpack · February 26, 2014

look at hardware house in tukcom a few doors from jib, choose a coolermaster case and the spec you want they will put it all together for you good prices and staff

Thanks, I will check it out when I come back from work.

But with a small shop like that, what happens if you have problems with your new PC, how is the warranty? JIB is a nation wide shop chain so that sould be better if a problem surface later on.

I know from bitter experince that some shops in tuk.com are very good and some are very bad regarding helping you out later on.

Hardware House is also a big chain: http://www.hwhinter.com/index.php. It's a main competitor to JIB. HH will certainly help out if you have a problem w/ a computer they built from parts purchased from them. After a time, there maybe a nominal charge. But if a part under warranty fails, they'll send it to the OEM vendor or tell you where the support office is.

I've found HH better about service than JIB, but then again the parts are priced a bit higher.

Putting a computer together is so trivial that either shop can do it competently, though, this being Thailand, there could be a rough edge or two.

HH does have the Cooler Master cases, great value. But they may not have every case in stock. Research which you'd like. HAF gets a lot of love in reviews and forums.

guzzi850m2 · February 26, 2014

Thanks for the info JSixpack.

Now look at this:

http://techland.time.com/2014/02/18/nvidias-new-graphics-cards-prepare-for-the-steam-machine-invasion/

It seems like low powered graphics cards will be the future and will be worth waiting for.

Hmm.

Lockheed · February 26, 2014

I'm coming in a bit late and you've probably worked out what to buy, but for a benchmark, I come to this site for the latest configurations, it's worth a look.

http://whirlpool.net.au/wiki/rmp_sg_whirlpoolpcs

manarak · March 1, 2014

Thanks for the info JSixpack.

Now look at this:

http://techland.time.com/2014/02/18/nvidias-new-graphics-cards-prepare-for-the-steam-machine-invasion/

It seems like low powered graphics cards will be the future and will be worth waiting for.

Hmm.

not really, these cards have 1080p as a target and will deliver medium to low performance with a smaller form factor, performance won't get anywhere near a proper vga card.

Edited March 1, 2014 by manarak

guzzi850m2 · March 1, 2014

not really, these cards have 1080p as a target and will deliver medium to low performance with a smaller form factor, performance won't get anywhere near a proper vga card.

But they write, quote:

The new cards will replace Nvidia’s GeForce GTX 650 Ti. Eventually Nvidia will replace the rest of its lineup with Maxwell-based cards, and will bring the same power-saving architecture to its laptop cards as well, but the company isn’t sharing any details yet. End quote.

So they write the whole line-up will be Maxwell-based eventually so I hope this will happen soon so I can get a upper medium card in Maxwell confirguration and save money on the power supply unit and power consumsion in general. As far as I can see, that's quite a revolution in the grafics cards world.

manarak · March 1, 2014

not really, these cards have 1080p as a target and will deliver medium to low performance with a smaller form factor, performance won't get anywhere near a proper vga card.

But they write, quote:

The new cards will replace Nvidia’s GeForce GTX 650 Ti. Eventually Nvidia will replace the rest of its lineup with Maxwell-based cards, and will bring the same power-saving architecture to its laptop cards as well, but the company isn’t sharing any details yet. End quote.

So they write the whole line-up will be Maxwell-based eventually so I hope this will happen soon so I can get a upper medium card in Maxwell confirguration and save money on the power supply unit and power consumsion in general. As far as I can see, that's quite a revolution in the grafics cards world.

theres a revolution every couple of years... vesa, pci, agp, pcie, sli...

since the GPUs will be power saving and smaller, it's a good reason to not make the cards smaller but to put more power on cards that are the same size as now, 555. that's always what happens.

NamKAheng · March 27, 2014

I calculated the power cons. from this site: http://www.buildcomputers.net/pc-power-requirements.html

Components

High End CPU (Intel Core i7)

Aftermarket CPU Heatsink Fan

High End Motherboard

RAM Modules x 2

High End Graphics Card ($251 to $400)

Dedicated Sound Card

Solid State Drive

3.5" Hard Disk Drive

Blu ray Drive

Case Fans x 4

Gaming PC Power Requirements

Max Power Consumption

95 W

12 W

80 W

6 W

258 W

15 W

3 W

9 W

30 W

24 W

532 Watts

That is a simple calculation missing some point:

How many USB ports?

Expension for future HDD?

Expension for more RAM modules?

First, a 532W load on a 600W power supply will consume the same electric power that a 1000W power supply with a 532W load will consume.

Second, a lot of power supplies company rate their power supply at watt peak not watt continous and whatt continous is what you want. My prensent power supply is an Enermax 850W and it deliver 850W continous power and peak at a 1000W. The peak power can only be sustain for a short period of time.

Third, power supplies are not 100% efficient, the good ones are 80% efficient, an higher efficient rating have better components, generate less heat and less fan noise. Most power supply are efficient between 40% and 80% so building a PC with 60% is a good choice for future expension and durability. A other reason are the electrolytic capacitors aging factor. When used heavily or over an extended period of time (1+ years) a power supply will slowly lose some of its initial wattage capacity. It is recommend you add 10-20% if you plan to keep your PSU for more than 1 year, or 20-30% for 24/7 usage and 1+ years.

guzzi850m2 · April 3, 2014

How many USB ports?

Expension for future HDD?

Expension for more RAM modules?

First, a 532W load on a 600W power supply will consume the same electric power that a 1000W power supply with a 532W load will consume.

Second, a lot of power supplies company rate their power supply at watt peak not watt continous and whatt continous is what you want. My prensent power supply is an Enermax 850W and it deliver 850W continous power and peak at a 1000W. The peak power can only be sustain for a short period of time.

Third, power supplies are not 100% efficient, the good ones are 80% efficient, an higher efficient rating have better components, generate less heat and less fan noise. Most power supply are efficient between 40% and 80% so building a PC with 60% is a good choice for future expension and durability. A other reason are the electrolytic capacitors aging factor. When used heavily or over an extended period of time (1+ years) a power supply will slowly lose some of its initial wattage capacity. It is recommend you add 10-20% if you plan to keep your PSU for more than 1 year, or 20-30% for 24/7 usage and 1+ years.

OK thanks for the tip and I am aware of that a load is a load thank you very much.

I don't know how many usb ports but min 8 and I hope to get min four of them 3.0.

I am still not firm on what to buy on especially graphics card. I might even buy/build the pc without a vga card first and then add one later on but as you pointed out, I better get sufficient power supply right from the start and better over do it than struggling later on.

NamKAheng · April 3, 2014

I forgot to say that a quality power supply offer protection that the cheap ones does not have.

NamKAheng · April 3, 2014

I forgot to say that a quality power supply offer protection that the cheap ones does not have.

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