Surapong believes deporting Indian businessman Satish Sehgal won't affect Thai-Indian relations

[tilac2]

@kikoman

Said I wouldn't respond but I guess I just didn't take account of how annoying your nonsense can be.

You, you, accused this guy if being a yellow. I was pointing out to you that PAD are the yellows! I thought I explained simply but clearly it was too complex an explanation. He was at a pdrc rally not PAD. They are not the same. They are different.

I read the rest of your post, full of half truths and misdirection. And you call me self serving!

Don't call me sonny.

You perceive your statement are not annoying, You need to think again.

The nonsense you are attempting to address only places on display how clueless you are of what is transpiring in Thailand now!

Your attempts to paint an angelic portrait of that foreign fascist, as a peace loving person that just happened to stubble and fall on the stage with Suthep (papa yellow), might be entertaining if it was not such a serious violation of the non-immigrant status to continue to remain in Thailand, An issue he should have seriously considered before violating them. (as someone already stated the government is being lenient with him by not arresting him and making him stand trial for his actions)

He may be an angel to you but I do not believe the immigration authorities would hold him in the same awe that you do!

He committed the crime, now he has to do the time!

Cheers

Oh dear, freedom of speech is a crime for you. I don't hold this man in awe, I don't care about his views to be honest. If he is a friend of suthep then I'd probably dislike him.

All that is irrelevant. He spoke his mind and that is what PT (and apparently you if your final sentence is an indication of your "thinking") are unable to tolerate.

Being lenient? Destroying a mans life for thinking the wrong thoughts? Don't think so.

Foreign fascist? Papa yellow? Jeez!!

Stupidity is a crime to me!

He has been in the country long enough to understand the laws of the land, He chose to ignore them, the Thai constitution gives all resident the "right to express political views as long as they are peaceful"

What he was alleged to have done was beyond the freedom of speech, (1)- a co-leader of PDRC. (2)- He made speeches that encouraged protesters to break the law. (3)- He led the take over of the Department of Civil Aviation among other state offices!

To you those may be the actions of an angel..

Do not attempt to project onto me your short comings,

Cheers

This Sehgal has been playing a dangerous and ill-advised game. Whether he deserves to be deported is another matter.

What is more sure is that Suthep is leading an insurrection against a legally elected government. If such charges are proven, then he is a criminal. Others who support him are therefore also criminals.

The erection of stages in various parts of Bangkok was done, as I understand it, without the authorisation of the government authorities. Therefore it was illegal.

Those who appear as singers or speakers on such stages in support of Suthep are presumably indulging in criminal activities.

If anyone is in any doubt as to the criminality of these activities, then they only have to make a comparison with proper democracies of Europe. If someone built a stage in Trafalgar Square, London, and on that stage rabble-rousing speeches were given advocating, e.g.: the removal of the elected British Government, the kidnapping of the Prime Minister, the closing down of Ministries, the stealing of agricultural produce, the blocking of democratic elections -- would not those people be arrested and put on trial?

Ditto in Paris, Berlin, Rome, The Hague, etc etc.

Why should people treat Thailand in this way? Why should Suthep and his other criminal associates get away with their continual crimes against Thailand? (if proven)

Edited February 8, 2014 by tilac2

[Thai at Heart]

India does take things likely when specially when a tycoon such a as Mr. Seghal is deported. I can see perhaps many reprisals against Thailand and lets hope they don't become another item on the list of the current bad decisions being made by the current government.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

He is not a tycoon. owning a travel agency and a marketing firm that caters to a specific niche, does not make one a tycoon.

Do you honestly believe that there would be reprisals against Thailand because of this deportation? India has removed ethnic Indian activists from its country, so I expect that the Indian government would be understanding of the issues involved. In respect to other large Indian investors, I doubt it will have any impact because they are above the fray and do not get involved in local politics. If and when they do, they use surrogates. Besides, within the Indian social class system, this chap occupies the social strata of the shopkeeper and service provider. That's not a swipe, but a pragmatic appreciation of the Indian social hierarchy. Would it impact the Indian wedding business? Doubt it. Indians will go where the best price is offered, and someone else will move in to service his Indian wedding market niche.

On the PR front, it will harden perceptions. Those opposed to the government will have another reason to oppose it. However, on the home front, it plays to the locals who are incensed at the involvement of "foreigners" in this dispute. Keep in mind that the PDRC has been pounding the war drums claiming foreigners were involved, providing scenarios of Cambodian mercenaries. The government says, ok, yes, there are foreigners, but they are PDRC affiliates and pulls out the Sehgal case to illustrate its point. Ouch. Talk about being up by ones own britches.

As a lobbyist it was part of the job to get close to politicians and to make sure he went to social activities, to be seen socializing with the powerful. Well, now it comes to back to bite him on his posterior. He made his living cosying up to the Bangkok political class. It was a decent living while it lasted. His business websites are now offline and he now lives in fear. The stress of this event will surely take a few years off his life. It sends a chilling message to those foreigners working on behalf of the PDRC and that's part of the goal.

You can be sure he knows a few powerful Indian business people who might have a word to help him.

At the end of the day he is a kaerk and not too many people will you to far to help him.

Welcome to the club of the lonely falang without too many real business buddies.

[Bluespunk]

@kikoman

Said I wouldn't respond but I guess I just didn't take account of how annoying your nonsense can be.

You, you, accused this guy if being a yellow. I was pointing out to you that PAD are the yellows! I thought I explained simply but clearly it was too complex an explanation. He was at a pdrc rally not PAD. They are not the same. They are different.

I read the rest of your post, full of half truths and misdirection. And you call me self serving!

Don't call me sonny.

You perceive your statement are not annoying, You need to think again.

The nonsense you are attempting to address only places on display how clueless you are of what is transpiring in Thailand now!

Your attempts to paint an angelic portrait of that foreign fascist, as a peace loving person that just happened to stubble and fall on the stage with Suthep (papa yellow), might be entertaining if it was not such a serious violation of the non-immigrant status to continue to remain in Thailand, An issue he should have seriously considered before violating them. (as someone already stated the government is being lenient with him by not arresting him and making him stand trial for his actions)

He may be an angel to you but I do not believe the immigration authorities would hold him in the same awe that you do!

He committed the crime, now he has to do the time!

Cheers

Oh dear, freedom of speech is a crime for you. I don't hold this man in awe, I don't care about his views to be honest. If he is a friend of suthep then I'd probably dislike him.

All that is irrelevant. He spoke his mind and that is what PT (and apparently you if your final sentence is an indication of your "thinking") are unable to tolerate.

Being lenient? Destroying a mans life for thinking the wrong thoughts? Don't think so.

Foreign fascist? Papa yellow? Jeez!!

Stupidity is a crime to me!

He has been in the country long enough to understand the laws of the land, He chose to ignore them, the Thai constitution gives all resident the "right to express political views as long as they are peaceful"

What he was alleged to have done was beyond the freedom of speech, (1)- a co-leader of PDRC. (2)- He made speeches that encouraged protesters to break the law. (3)- He led the take over of the Department of Civil Aviation among other state offices!

To you those may be the actions of an angel..

Do not attempt to project onto me your short comings,

Cheers

More insults. Weak arguments.

"Stupidity is a crime" you say. You know, I don't think it is. However misrepresenting the truth should be.

Bye.

Edited February 8, 2014 by Bluespunk

[Robby nz]

I see it reported elsewhere this morning that Tarit has decided he is a co-leader.

I wonder if he is one of the 58 who are not allowed to leave the country ?

Tarit would just be stupid enough to include him.

[Robby nz]

I see Chalerm is now saying it is up to the interior ministry committee to decide if the deportation order is OK.

If the committee says it is OK then he will sign the deportation order if it says it is not OK he will not sign.

He is trying to look for a way to worm his way out and for someone to blame.

He knows he has stuffed up.

[ultimate weapon]

He's Indian, what's he doing being so.visibly involved in Thai domestic politics? Most things I read advise foreigners to keep out of such things. I know it wouldn't go over very well in the States if some rich foreigner was a member of a clique leading an effort to overthrow our elected federal government!

Yup and the weird thing in the states is that these americans will feel 100% validated to kick out and possibly jail or punish him first but probably not the same way with this indian person.

[rogerdee123]

What I really don't understand is that why this guy, who definitely is fluent in Thai, has been in the Kingdom for 50+ years, probably makes millions per month, and considers himself a Thai, hasn't applied for Thai citizenship?! Is it only me?

Do you have any idea how difficult it is to get permanent residency, not to mention citizenship, in this racist country? Especially for Khon Khek?

If he doesn't have permanent residency I would guess he's tried and been turned down.

If he does have permanent residency, I would guess that's a much as they will give him (probably in return for a huge bribe) and citizenship is out of the question.

[Suriya4]

Suthep's double standard?

This is what Suthep's regime has done with Farang with a far less political involvement on stage.

"Stupidity is a crime" under Suthep's standard.

Observation from the video, IMHO this Farang is very quite stupid indeed.

Here is his crime: demand for democratic election.

Edited February 9, 2014 by Suriya4

[Dasekel]

Please provide the clear evidence, or do you believe the police every time they say they know who did it, or who is behind whatever? This is one of the stupid messages the BIB and politicians love here in Thailand. We know who is behind it and unless they surrender we will go against them....

Making speeches is not a crime as far as I know, at least not in a democracy and you seem to be so convinced that Thailand under PTP is a functioning democracy, just because they hold elections. Did he encourage protesters to break the law? Again, evidence, not just repeating what those who want to deport this man are saying about him, unless they produce the evidence.

Leading others to take over state offices? Again, evidence, do you just believe everything the bulldog of TS says and takes it as proof: The Nation: "Yet Satish joined the PDRC movement and became a leader. He went on stage and incited people to violate the law." Tarit alleged that Satish had led protesters to besiege several government offices and even surrounded the Civil Aviation Department after the state of emergency was announced.

I admit my information is only from BP, The Nation and TV, but I try not to pretend that those sources are any proof whatsoever, because unfortunately also the quality and standard of journalism in Thailand is rather low.

Bangkok Post: The CMPO accused Mr Sehgal, who joined the People's Democratic Reform Committee's (PDRC) rallies, of defying the state of emergency (how was that possible if it is true that he stopped his participation when the Emergency Decree was imposed). It was also reported he joined (not led) the blockade at the Civil Aviation...

He led the protesters in Silom, who probably were the business people demonstrating, and I fail to see why it is a crime worth of deportation to voice one's opinion publicly together with others? Unless we are not living in a democracy, of course.

Why not believe that the policeman that was attacked and badly beaten on tape, he was working undercover taking pictures of the actions of the demonstrators, most likely the leaders!

The article stated the police had clear evidence that he was a co-leader PDRC and gave speeches that encouraged protesters to break the law and that he led the takeover of several state offices including the Department of Civil Aviation!

"Under the currently-imposed Emergency Decree, the care taker Prime minister or her representative could order a foreigner's deportation under reasonable circumstances

if he/she plays a part of instigating emergency situation.".

Simply states all that is needed is reasonable circumstances, to be deported and also he has a right to appeal that action, Not clear if he was first deported!

you will find the clear evidence you seek in the same place you found the clear evidence of your quote that he (stopped his part in the protest after the E. decree was imposed!) I believe that was in the same article, why would you cherry pick only the parts of the article you agree with!

Cheers

Sorry, you are the one cherry picking or not reading carefully enough. You definitely need to look at the articles again and check the words used in there. You are interpreting things that were not said in the article at all.

I am referring to those articles:

<<<< Link to Bangkok Post article edited out of post >>>>

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Satish-turns-to-NHRC-for-help-30226384.html

1. I was not taking at all about the beaten policeman. That is a new issue you just throw in here without making a point regarding what I said.

2. The article stated the police had clear evidence that he was a co-leader PDRC and gave speeches that encouraged protesters to break the law. So, you really believe everything the BIB say, oh my god. I believe it only when they actually SHOW the evidence. You don't see how different DSI and the police treat crimes against the protesters (I guess they will never get or even go after those who killed protesters, but hey, how quickly did they manage to catch the guy shooting the Red Shirt honcho in Udon). If you believe everything the police is saying and alleging others to have done, then you should have a reality check. And by the way, show me even where the article says that there is clear evidence? You can only find phrases like” Tarit alleges ….” “The CMPO accused ….” “It was also reported he joined the blockade at the Civil Aviation Department ..” No word of evidence in any of the 2 articles I referred to. But why would you believe everything chaps like Tarit and Chalerm say, but not believing the Indian guy when he says that he was not involved in any violent action, that he only voiced peacefully his opinion and that he stopped after the emergency decree was issued. You don’t think one should prove his guilt before finding him guilty? But as you are such a staunch red shirt, it seems logical to follow their example and become accuser, judge and executioner at the same time. Talking about democratic principles. Hahaha.

3. and that he led the takeover of several state offices including the Department of Civil Aviation! Man, open your eyes and read the sentence in the article again! It said it was alleged that he JOINED the blockade at the CAA, not even to other state offices!!! To join is very different from to lead, you know?

4. If he stopped his activities when the emergency decree was issued, how can it then be used to deport him for actions when the emergency decree was not in place??

I surely do not believe that this guy did anything to threaten the Thailand security, contrary to what a number of RS leaders did in 2010. Do I have to remind you about the call by one of your ideal democrats to burn BKK and the country, which is also on tape and which was actually put into action. Clear evidence of inciting hatred and call for terroristic attacks, no? To deport him is an attempt by undemocratic politicians and officers to stifle any opposition and shows that freedom of speech is not included in the definition of “Democracy” used by PTP and the Shins in Thailand.

Edited February 9, 2014 by ineu
31) Bangkok Post do not allow quotes from their news articles or other material to appear on Thaivisa.com. Neither do they allow links to their publications. Posts from members containing quotes from or links to Bangkok Post publications will be dele

[Dasekel]

His business websites are now offline and he now lives in fear. The stress of this event will surely take a few years off his life. It sends a chilling message to those foreigners working on behalf of the PDRC and that's part of the goal.

That smells of real fascism to me.

No, it is called democracy PTP style.

[Dasekel]

This Sehgal has been playing a dangerous and ill-advised game. Whether he deserves to be deported is another matter.

What is more sure is that Suthep is leading an insurrection against a legally elected government. If such charges are proven, then he is a criminal. Others who support him are therefore also criminals.

The erection of stages in various parts of Bangkok was done, as I understand it, without the authorisation of the government authorities. Therefore it was illegal.

Those who appear as singers or speakers on such stages in support of Suthep are presumably indulging in criminal activities.

If anyone is in any doubt as to the criminality of these activities, then they only have to make a comparison with proper democracies of Europe. If someone built a stage in Trafalgar Square, London, and on that stage rabble-rousing speeches were given advocating, e.g.: the removal of the elected British Government, the kidnapping of the Prime Minister, the closing down of Ministries, the stealing of agricultural produce, the blocking of democratic elections -- would not those people be arrested and put on trial?

Ditto in Paris, Berlin, Rome, The Hague, etc etc.

Why should people treat Thailand in this way? Why should Suthep and his other criminal associates get away with their continual crimes against Thailand? (if proven)

You are one of those black and white guys, throwing all in one basket. I have seen many posts here of people who support peaceful demonstrations against PTP, the pinnacle of corruption reached under the Thaksin regime and dismantling of democratic measures. And there are tens of thousands or more of Thai people out in BKK who are out there for the same reasons. That TS and a number of others are doing things the wrong way does NOT mean that all protesters are insurrectionists. The vast majority has a right cause and they have the right to demonstrate in the streets of BKK. as they would be allowed to do in Berlin. I myself participated in a number of big rallies, not all of them officially allowed, but none of them criminalised and none of them became violent from any side. I am proud today to have played my role against the stationing of Pershing and Cruise Missiles in Europe, which we managed to prevent from happening!

In Germany you will be able to get an approval for setting up of stages and there will be no such BS as CMPO and people under ear medication running the government response. In Germany and many other countries you can check the elected government and it is not in a position of almost absolute power. Big differences that you seem to neglect. What you are saying is, because of TS and his crazy speeches all demonstrators and protesters who are against PTP are criminals. You want tens of thousands of people being thrown into jail for their protests, because there is TS and some others around who do stupid and unhelpful stuff? I think nothing of what TS is doing is any different of what the RS did in 2010. Should they also be thrown into jail and all those demonstrators?

And just to make it clear to you, I am not supporting or justifying ST's actions at all. I think it is counterproductive to become so aggressive and it surely has prevented other tens of thousands or more coming out in support of the protests.

[djhotsox]

What I really don't understand is that why this guy, who definitely is fluent in Thai, has been in the Kingdom for 50+ years, probably makes millions per month, and considers himself a Thai, hasn't applied for Thai citizenship?! Is it only me?

I am surprised that so many posters even question why he hasn't got Thai citizenship?

Would ANY of you give up the passport of your home country for a Thai passport? I don't think so!

He has a passport from a country that is a TRUE Democracy where he will actually have rights and freedoms unlike Thailand. IF he were a Thai Citizen right now he would be arrested and thrown in jail on insurrection charges! He's probably happy he never got citizenship here!

(And I won't even get into the differences of travelling elsewhere with a Thai passport vs. others)

My passport (non-Thai) is my ticket outta here if when the s**t hits the fan!

[Thai at Heart]

What I really don't understand is that why this guy, who definitely is fluent in Thai, has been in the Kingdom for 50+ years, probably makes millions per month, and considers himself a Thai, hasn't applied for Thai citizenship?! Is it only me?

I am surprised that so many posters even question why he hasn't got Thai citizenship?

Would ANY of you give up the passport of your home country for a Thai passport? I don't think so!

He has a passport from a country that is a TRUE Democracy where he will actually have rights and freedoms unlike Thailand. IF he were a Thai Citizen right now he would be arrested and thrown in jail on insurrection charges! He's probably happy he never got citizenship here!

(And I won't even get into the differences of travelling elsewhere with a Thai passport vs. others)

My passport (non-Thai) is my ticket outta here if when the s**t hits the fan!

I find it funny that anyone believes that thailand is in some way able to check with India if he had given up his Indian citizenship or vice versa.

Taking up thai citizenship wouldn't have effected his Indian citizenship at all. They would never find out.

[Trembly]

What I really don't understand is that why this guy, who definitely is fluent in Thai, has been in the Kingdom for 50+ years, probably makes millions per month, and considers himself a Thai, hasn't applied for Thai citizenship?! Is it only me?

I am surprised that so many posters even question why he hasn't got Thai citizenship?

Would ANY of you give up the passport of your home country for a Thai passport? I don't think so!

He has a passport from a country that is a TRUE Democracy where he will actually have rights and freedoms unlike Thailand. IF he were a Thai Citizen right now he would be arrested and thrown in jail on insurrection charges! He's probably happy he never got citizenship here!

(And I won't even get into the differences of travelling elsewhere with a Thai passport vs. others)

My passport (non-Thai) is my ticket outta here if when the s**t hits the fan!

I find it funny that anyone believes that thailand is in some way able to check with India if he had given up his Indian citizenship or vice versa.

Taking up thai citizenship wouldn't have effected his Indian citizenship at all. They would never find out.

He is probably particularly attached to his gongs and committee memberships which he has by virtue of Indian nationality rather than Thai (being on the board of the Royal Bangkok Sports Club on the foreign quota, for example).

Although the Indian government does not allow dual citizenship, they fully accept that spurning the Indian diaspora does more harm than good, which is why there is an Overseas Indian visa that is a doddle for most overseas Indians to get and is basically equivalent to permanent residency / ILR / Green Card etc of other countries.

High profile cases of Indian businessmen and celebs getting foreign citizenship and then coming back on Overseas Indian status are numerous, such as the infamous Hinduja brothers or Cyrus Mistry (president of Tata Motors), who got himself an Irish passport and then went straight back to work in India with an Overseas Indian visa pasted in it.

Edited February 10, 2014 by Trembly