Abhisit sets conditions for contesting election

[rickirs]

Does Abhisit have permission to speak without a note from Suthep? Who cares what Abhisit says about anything? He said he was going to exercise his constitutional right to vote, then didn't. I'd like to hear from Suthep what HE proposes as he is the one who makes decisions for the Democrat party.

[metisdead]

An off topic post has been removed. This is not about USA elections.

[TallPalm]

Ahhh come on stop being so loose with the details..... this is a broken record. What kind of statement is that ??? DETAILS please or go find a Dem that can actually outline a proposal properly... get rid of this lame duck where the heck is Korn ?

Come on, you should know by now that Thais aren't interested in details. They just want things that 'sound good' - they can't handle details.

[HaroldB]

As in this quote....."Four wishes of the people"?....Since when are these electoral minority coup-mongers and their shadowy supporters "The people"?........The people spoke on Feb. 2nd. and he is so afraid of what they said. He wants to 'deep-six' their opinion.

The people (most of them) voted already.

43 million (roughly) of the population were eligible to vote, yet only 20 million (roughly) did so out of a population of 70 million or so. That's less than 30% of the entire population. And (let's say) PT got around 50% of that vote, it means PT are only approved by around 15% of the population.

Is my maths correct? Did "the people" really vote for PT this time around?

1. The people were denied the opportunity to vote for the Dems by... the Dems.

2. There are not 70 million voters in TL

I said population of 70 million (the people).

And the Dems stopped 20 million people voting? Wow, gotta give them credit.

I dislike getting involved in the throwing around of numbers but;

43 Million allowed to Vote (unless Suthep gets his way)

20 Million voted

8 Million unable to vote (due to unrest)

12% not Valid

16% No vote (possibly Democrat voters)

If 50% Vote PT that is approx 25% of Eligible voters not 15%, who have voted so far and of the people who have voted it IS 50%.

[spidermike007]

Please specify national reform.

Korn was supposed to be taking time off from party management to implement reform proposals, where are they and what are they ?

It is difficult for Korn to take time off from his amassing of billions of baht, to focus on this. He is quietly building a massive fortune, and it is very distracting. He has better things to do than help build the nation.

[Siripon]

Ahhh come on stop being so loose with the details..... this is a broken record. What kind of statement is that ??? DETAILS please or go find a Dem that can actually outline a proposal properly... get rid of this lame duck where the heck is Korn ?

Korn lost his place on the executive board of the Democrats, he was under Apisit's quota for deputies and was replaced.

The reform agenda he is supposed to be working on could be a face saving exercise or genuine, I don't know.

[djjamie]

Please specify national reform.

Korn was supposed to be taking time off from party management to implement reform proposals, where are they and what are they ?

It is difficult for Korn to take time off from his amassing of billions of baht, to focus on this. He is quietly building a massive fortune, and it is very distracting. He has better things to do than help build the nation.

Khun Korn giving an interview to Khun Noppatjak of the Nation while on a study trip to Nakorn Sawan province to talk to rice farmers about their plight. This was 3 days ago.

As you were saying?

[LevelHead]

Firstly, who is Abhisit to say anything.

He and his Democrat Party deliberately boycotted the election process and have been seen supporting the PDRC who have shut down elections in some places.

He and the Democrat Party now have no right to demand anything.

But as you can see on the streets, there are hardly any protestors left. Sometimes just 1 or 2 people at a protest site. They are rapidly losing momentum and everyone is getting fed up of them. They are trying hard to spin in the media the farmers are joining them, however you only see a few hundred farmers and even then the farmers say they only want their money, nothing political.

So yes, I fully expect the Democrat Party and Abhisit to now start to quickly push and push for negotiation and a new election as the PDRC are running out of steam and everyone is bored of them.

But of course, at this moment in time is PTP's weakest point, in another month or two when the farmers are sorted out then they will be much stronger again, so yes, the Democrats will now rush to the table to negotiate - however PTP will simply carry on with asking the EC to do their job and run the byelections to get 95% quorom
.

So in a simplistic manner :

Now is the best time for the Democrat Party (DP) to negotiate and have an election.

Now is the worst time for PTP to have a new election.

If PTP negotiates and agrees to a new election DP will have won.

If PTP allows the protests to carry on and demands the EC to do their job - things will get better for PTP as more farmers are paid and more people hate the protestors.

If PTP forces the EC to do their job and there is a Judicial Coup, then PTP will gain massively as they can once again claim the courts are on the Democrat Party/Elites side.

If PTP forces the EC to do their job and there is a Military Coup, then PTP will gain massively as they can once again claim the Military are on the Democrat Party/Elites side.

So I can see the situation is stalemate as PTP will want to complete the Feb 2nd elections and the Democrat Party/PDRC must do everything they can to stop it - BUT - the only way out for the Democrats without giving massive support to PTP as everyone will hate a judicial or military coup - is to get PTP to willingly hold a new election. But PTP would be mad to do that, they want to finish Feb 2nd election or force the EC/CC to pull off a judicial coup and annul it - which will anger about 75% of the population and kill the Democrat Party and be beneficial to PTP, while at the same time invoking the wrath of the world and the international media against the PDRC/DP/Elites for yet another staged and manipulated judicial coup to usurp Democracy and Elections. Also at that time PTP will likely complain to the UN and draw the worlds focus on to the Thai Constitution and any verdict of the CC if its biased.

So I expect the anti government media to be full on with how PTP should negotiate and hold new elections against the Democrats.....................and I expect lots of hate in the anti-government media because PTP will simply say Feb 2nd elections must be completed - sorry - complete Feb 2nd elections then reform. It was the Democrats decision to boycott it and now they must be punished for the selfish, arrogant stupidity.

All in my opinion of course.

[kikoman]

The Democrat party is in no position to ask for the government to meet their conditions to participate in the election process, with all of your yellow supports stating that the voters have turned against the sitting government, put up or shut up!

The Democrat are a minority party in Thailand, have not won an election in 20 years, refuse to change their party platform to appeal to less affluent voters, because they are the "lap dogs" of the Rich Elite Establishment, only and are not allowed to try to appeal outside of what the Elite allow!

If you can't run with the Big dogs stay on the porch, lap dog!

Cheers

[Tatsujin]

As in this quote....."Four wishes of the people"?....Since when are these electoral minority coup-mongers and their shadowy supporters "The people"?........The people spoke on Feb. 2nd. and he is so afraid of what they said. He wants to 'deep-six' their opinion.

The people (most of them) voted already.

43 million (roughly) of the population were eligible to vote, yet only 20 million (roughly) did so out of a population of 70 million or so. That's less than 30% of the entire population. And (let's say) PT got around 50% of that vote, it means PT are only approved by around 15% of the population.

Is my maths correct? Did "the people" really vote for PT this time around?

If they got 50% of the vote (constituency), it'd still amount to more votes than the Democrats got during the last election.

How is that relevant?

PT still claim the mandate of "the people" when it's quite obvious by the numbers alone, they do NOT have the support of "the majority" of "the people" as they continuously claim.

[webfact]

Democrat party leader says new election should stop
By Digital Content



BANGKOK, Feb 11 – Thailand's Democrat Party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva has called on caretaker Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra to accept the fact that the Feb 2 general election was unsuccessful and that new balloting should be called off.

He said several quarters in society have agreed that Thailand urgently needs national reform and that the snap polls, which failed to take place in scores of constituencies nationwide, should not be held again.

Mr Abhisit said a general election, if held, should be organised by a neutral agency, and not by conflicting factions, adding that resolutions should jointly be discussed for the country, or damage will be more severe and the government will eventually fail to stay in power.

The former prime minister said the government should urgently help debt-stricken farmers and sell rice from the state stockpiles for funds to pay them.

“If rice in the stockpiles is sold, the government will get the Bt30 billion it wants for overdue payments. Why doesn’t the government take action?” he asked. (MCOT online news)


-- TNA 2014-02-11

[Siripon]

Democrat party leader says new election should stop

By Digital Content

BANGKOK, Feb 11 Thailand's Democrat Party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva has called on caretaker Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra to accept the fact that the Feb 2 general election was unsuccessful and that new balloting should be called off.

He said several quarters in society have agreed that Thailand urgently needs national reform and that the snap polls, which failed to take place in scores of constituencies nationwide, should not be held again.

Mr Abhisit said a general election, if held, should be organised by a neutral agency, and not by conflicting factions, adding that resolutions should jointly be discussed for the country, or damage will be more severe and the government will eventually fail to stay in power.

The former prime minister said the government should urgently help debt-stricken farmers and sell rice from the state stockpiles for funds to pay them.

If rice in the stockpiles is sold, the government will get the Bt30 billion it wants for overdue payments. Why doesnt the government take action? he asked. (MCOT online news)

-- TNA 2014-02-11

Exactly, sell the rice!

[indyuk]

"If the PM wants to safeguard democracy as she had said, she must accept the four wishes of the people," Abhisit said."

Same old, same old from someone frothing at the mouth about wanting to be PM. but rejected at every turn...A one-trick pony Elitist, thinking he doesn't need to reform himself or his party, so the electorate must.

As in this quote....."Four wishes of the people"?....Since when are these electoral minority coup-mongers and their shadowy supporters "The people"?........The people spoke on Feb. 2nd. and he is so afraid of what they said. He wants to 'deep-six' their opinion.

Follow the bouncing ball of all this coup-intentioned noise - anti-amnesty stuff...then... anti-Thaksin opionating...then... anti-electoral activism...then...reform before election.... now.... nullify, the election......What next? ....At least they are consistent in one thing....The underpinning of it all. Coup-intentionism by those who cannot be elected by "The People"

The most pitiful thing however is all this self-righteous, holier-than-thou bleating about 'reform'....If their intentions were honorable, they would take their opinionating about this to Parliament....But they know they will always be the minority there, as long as they don't conform themselves to the wishes of "The people"....Their entitlement arrogance doesn't allow them to do that...In their 'humble' opinion, "The people" need to 'conform' themselves to their enlightened Political insights.....

Next time I will tell you what I really think

Very welcome! This is a Clear cut creative analysis of the futility of the demands of the so called pro reform minority. They and their leaders cry "Let us carry on oppressing the majority of the Thai people so we can come back to parliament with our damp squid politics which never quite achieve anything tangible other than the enrichment Thailand's privileged minority". Go home to mummy Mark you're done for.

Edited February 11, 2014 by indyuk

[aussieinthailand]

As in this quote....."Four wishes of the people"?....Since when are these electoral minority coup-mongers and their shadowy supporters "The people"?........The people spoke on Feb. 2nd. and he is so afraid of what they said. He wants to 'deep-six' their opinion.

The people (most of them) voted already.

43 million (roughly) of the population were eligible to vote, yet only 20 million (roughly) did so out of a population of 70 million or so. That's less than 30% of the entire population. And (let's say) PT got around 50% of that vote, it means PT are only approved by around 15% of the population.

Is my maths correct? Did "the people" really vote for PT this time around?

Nothing wrong with your math, it's your assumption of the numbers that's not right,,,

Do you really think that only 50% of the votes were for the current government when Mark did not put the Dems forward for people to vote for? He himself is NOT eligible to be a minister under the law as he did not vote as is required, is that not correct??? Mark himself called for people not to vote as did Suthep, so he also can not be a minister, nor any one that did not vote Feb 2,,, not sure if the ban is for 5 years??? can anyone confirm?

[Publicus]

Isn't it a bit too late for Abhisit to be making demands when the people have already spoken? They tried to muzzle the Thai people by supporting Mr. Suthep's mob. They tried to steal ballot boxes and prevent election officials from doing their duty. They tried to prevent government from working. Now they are claiming they have the voice of the people? Give me a break - Mr. Abhisit!!!

This is an excellent statement if I may say so.

[Thait Spot]

"If the PM wants to safeguard democracy as she had said, she must accept the four wishes of the people," Abhisit said."

Same old, same old from someone frothing at the mouth about wanting to be PM. but rejected at every turn...A one-trick pony Elitist, thinking he doesn't need to reform himself or his party, so the electorate must.

As in this quote....."Four wishes of the people"?....Since when are these electoral minority coup-mongers and their shadowy supporters "The people"?........The people spoke on Feb. 2nd. and he is so afraid of what they said. He wants to 'deep-six' their opinion.

Follow the bouncing ball of all this coup-intentioned noise - anti-amnesty stuff...then... anti-Thaksin opionating...then... anti-electoral activism...then...reform before election.... now.... nullify, the election......What next? ....At least they are consistent in one thing....The underpinning of it all. Coup-intentionism by those who cannot be elected by "The People"

The most pitiful thing however is all this self-righteous, holier-than-thou bleating about 'reform'....If their intentions were honorable, they would take their opinionating about this to Parliament....But they know they will always be the minority there, as long as they don't conform themselves to the wishes of "The people"....Their entitlement arrogance doesn't allow them to do that...In their 'humble' opinion, "The people" need to 'conform' themselves to their enlightened Political insights.....

Next time I will tell you what I really think

Very welcome clear cut creative analysis of the of the futility of the demands of the so called pro reform minority. They and the leaders cry "Let us carry on oppressing the majority of the Thai people so we can come back to parliament with our damp squid politics which never quite achieve anything tangible other than the enrichment Thailand's privileged minority. Go home tto mummy Mark your done for.

I appreciate that you went to the same school of rhetoric and common sense as FB - and long may you share your bath time together.

Who is this "oppressed majority" that you speak of? I'd really be intrigued to see who you think falls into that circle on the Venn diagram.

Does it include rice farmers? Rubber farmers? Civil servants? Please do tell

[metisdead]

A post with messed up quotes has been removed. Replies to previously deleted posts have been removed as well.

[djjamie]

The Democrat party is in no position to ask for the government to meet their conditions to participate in the election process, with all of your yellow supports stating that the voters have turned against the sitting government, put up or shut up!

The Democrat are a minority party in Thailand, have not won an election in 20 years, refuse to change their party platform to appeal to less affluent voters, because they are the "lap dogs" of the Rich Elite Establishment, only and are not allowed to try to appeal outside of what the Elite allow!

If you can't run with the Big dogs stay on the porch, lap dog!

Cheers

So you have showed a trait of a demagogue in your comment as well as inadvertently arguing for a dictatorship. Like I said a slide into supporting a dictator under the guise of democracy is slow yet pronounced.

Demagoguery - Demonizing the opposition by calling them derogatory names to make "your side" appear better and to reinforce your going for the "good guys"

Dictatorial tendencies - Then decimating a principle of democracy that is "majority rule and minor it rights" more or less saying "The good guys" won the election so shut up and deal with it.

I love elections. I yearn for free and fair elections, but I adhere to elections being a gateway to promote democracy post ballot box. Democracy begins after the elections. That is not where it finishes.

Cheers

[Publicus]

Does Abhisit have permission to speak without a note from Suthep? Who cares what Abhisit says about anything? He said he was going to exercise his constitutional right to vote, then didn't. I'd like to hear from Suthep what HE proposes as he is the one who makes decisions for the Democrat party.

Abhisit and Suthep need to clearly state publicly that no Thai gets expelled or purged from Thailand.

That exclusionary and severe mindset causes new problems in addition to the many compound problems that already exist.

Renounce it now.

[icommunity]

"If the PM wants to safeguard democracy as she had said, she must accept the four wishes of the people," Abhisit said."

Same old, same old from someone frothing at the mouth about wanting to be PM. but rejected at every turn...A one-trick pony Elitist, thinking he doesn't need to reform himself or his party, so the electorate must.

As in this quote....."Four wishes of the people"?....Since when are these electoral minority coup-mongers and their shadowy supporters "The people"?........The people spoke on Feb. 2nd. and he is so afraid of what they said. He wants to 'deep-six' their opinion.

Follow the bouncing ball of all this coup-intentioned noise - anti-amnesty stuff...then... anti-Thaksin opionating...then... anti-electoral activism...then...reform before election.... now.... nullify, the election......What next? ....At least they are consistent in one thing....The underpinning of it all. Coup-intentionism by those who cannot be elected by "The People"

The most pitiful thing however is all this self-righteous, holier-than-thou bleating about 'reform'....If their intentions were honorable, they would take their opinionating about this to Parliament....But they know they will always be the minority there, as long as they don't conform themselves to the wishes of "The people"....Their entitlement arrogance doesn't allow them to do that...In their 'humble' opinion, "The people" need to 'conform' themselves to their enlightened Political insights.....

Next time I will tell you what I really think

If you take the time to read the news you will see that there have been a number of polls conducted that Abhisit is referring to - these represent the people, albeit a small cross section.

Instead every post of your reds the same - frothing, elitist, coup mongers, shadowy, coup-intentionism (twice), self-righteous, holier-than-thou - it's all very repetitive and very, very boring

Your understnding of the written word is also severely flawed:

coup-intentioned (read what Abhisit said again)

anti-electoral (read what Abhisit said again)

reform before election (read what Abhisit said again)

Please feel free to add value to the forum - but don't keep ranting on here some some deranged preacher using the same words in every post and failing to keep up with the news and even worse, failing to comprehend it.

If you take the time to read the news including this news report of The Nation, you will see that what AV said was - the results of PROTESTERS

"The proposals are derived from the results of a recent survey of protesters that was conducted in an attempt to find ways the warring parties can find a common ground."

IMO, they were valid reasons Fryslan boppe mentioned. You were so afraid of these being highlighted.

coup-intentioned, anti-electoral, reform before election - What had AV said on these? His action, attitude and non action has a lot to say about these.

Please feel free to add value to the forun - but don't put words in people's mouth.

[iancnx]

Where are you going to get the neutral body from? Japan, Australia? Cause that's what you're going to have to do..... You all ready for it? It is abundantly clear that Thais cannot do this themselves. You need to forget about face and ask for help Thailand.

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE 8.2 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

+1

[Blackmirage2013]

I honestly do not understand why this situation is so complicated.

The incumbent government bribed people to vote for them and they are calling their victory democratic???

That is bullshit.

What is so damn hard to understand? Can someone explain it to me???

[nong38]

Reform means............all things to all people and is thus vague and ensures that the current situation continues. Yes it would be a good idea if the interested parties could converse and put some meat on the bones to chew over, in the meantime the exchange rate is the right side of 50.

[icommunity]

As in this quote....."Four wishes of the people"?....Since when are these electoral minority coup-mongers and their shadowy supporters "The people"?........The people spoke on Feb. 2nd. and he is so afraid of what they said. He wants to 'deep-six' their opinion.

The people (most of them) voted already.

43 million (roughly) of the population were eligible to vote, yet only 20 million (roughly) did so out of a population of 70 million or so. That's less than 30% of the entire population. And (let's say) PT got around 50% of that vote, it means PT are only approved by around 15% of the population.

Is my maths correct? Did "the people" really vote for PT this time around?

Can you share how the toddles vote if you are not talking about 43 million eligible voters but a population of 70 million. May be the toddlers will be happy blowing whistle like their pacifiers.

[lucjoker]

the final solution: Abhisit and Suthep have to marry , the rest will be shot,Simple !

[mjef]

As in this quote....."Four wishes of the people"?....Since when are these electoral minority coup-mongers and their shadowy supporters "The people"?........The people spoke on Feb. 2nd. and he is so afraid of what they said. He wants to 'deep-six' their opinion.

The people (most of them) voted already.

43 million (roughly) of the population were eligible to vote, yet only 20 million (roughly) did so out of a population of 70 million or so. That's less than 30% of the entire population. And (let's say) PT got around 50% of that vote, it means PT are only approved by around 15% of the population.

Is my maths correct? Did "the people" really vote for PT this time around?

Your math is probably correct, your logic is not! If 43 million were eligible to vote, it means that you should do the math like this:

20/43 = 46.5%

You can not do any calculation with 70+ million people, because simply some of them are not eligible to vote! It means that nearly half the population (eligible to vote) voted. And considering that democracy loving Suthep and his fans did anything they could and disrupted voting in many constituencies, this number isn't bad at all. I've heard from many of my friends that they wanted to vote, but they were afraid it was too dangerous to go out and do so, simply because PDRC threatened against voting.

So this is how you should do the calculations! I believe much more than 50% of the population would love to vote if there is no threat from PDRC. Not only compared to other democracies this would be a good participation, but also it means that PDRC is in minority and should respect the rest too. They can't have it all, as Shinawatras can't!

[rickirs]

Abhisit proposing five (5) reforms not four as he states. Abhisit would of course be part of the "neutral" reform committee. The reform committee should be designated by the people in each province. 77 provinces represented. Number of delegates from each province based on the population. Thais should also be putting ordinary Thais in the delegations , you know those with no teeth and no money. They are Thais right and they have the right to vote and to determine the priorities of their future.

And how are reform members "designated?" Certainly not by a vote sonce Suthep will block any democratic voting process.

[Tatsujin]

As in this quote....."Four wishes of the people"?....Since when are these electoral minority coup-mongers and their shadowy supporters "The people"?........The people spoke on Feb. 2nd. and he is so afraid of what they said. He wants to 'deep-six' their opinion.

The people (most of them) voted already.

43 million (roughly) of the population were eligible to vote, yet only 20 million (roughly) did so out of a population of 70 million or so. That's less than 30% of the entire population. And (let's say) PT got around 50% of that vote, it means PT are only approved by around 15% of the population.

Is my maths correct? Did "the people" really vote for PT this time around?

Can you share how the toddles vote if you are not talking about 43 million eligible voters but a population of 70 million. May be the toddlers will be happy blowing whistle like their pacifiers.

You're obviously missing my point. PT continually claim the mandate of "the majority" of "the people" ... not just eligible voters.

Even if we did take it on "eligible voters" alone, they still don't have the support of "the majority".

[wave]

Abisihit really has nothing to offer the electorate.

All his proposals demands are exactly the same as Sutheps, except amazingly Sutheps are a bit more fleshed out.

He claims that this is the wish of the people but fails to clarify which people he is referring to.

Would it be the few that are left blocking roads in Bangkok or would it be the 20 million that came out to vote.

These continued mutterings from Abisiht fail to bring anything new to the table.

You really have to question what relevance Abisiht has to the political process.

He appears to be more intent on compromising democracy than supporting it.

The Democrats failure to contest the election was a massive fail.

it has marginalized the Democrats to the point of irrelevance by showing their total disregard for the Democratic process.

His failure to stick to his word about stepping down after the last election will be seen as the biggest mistake of his political career.

Abisiht should step down now and allow a progressive (do they even exist?) Democrat the chance to win the hearts and minds of the people.

[icommunity]

Please specify national reform.

Korn was supposed to be taking time off from party management to implement reform proposals, where are they and what are they ?

Read this: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/703584-fixing-corruption-in-our-govt-system-must-be-a-top-priority-thai-opinion/

I have not seen part 1, but if it is as good as this, it is a winner.

Was the URL you shared on the editorial opinions of The Nation came from Korn???