Thai opposition turns to farmers as political stalemate lingers

[webfact]

Thai Opposition Turns to Farmers as Political Stalemate Lingers
By Chris Blake and Supunnabul Suwannakij

(Bloomberg) Thailand’s opposition movement is reaching out to rice farmers to break a political stalemate as the nation awaits official election results, seeking to turn a source of support for Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra.

After months of demonstrations led by her political opponents, Yingluck now risks a backlash from farmers who say her government is months behind on subsidized rice payments at the heart of her Pheu Thai party’s populist platform. Yingluck also faces possible impeachment over the program, which the opposition alleges has benefited politicians more than rural communities.

The demonstrators led by former opposition lawmaker Suthep Thaugsuban are looking to capitalize on a potential crack in Yingluck’s rural support base, inviting farmers to speak on protest stages and raising money to help them file lawsuits against her government. Parties linked to Yingluck’s brother, former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra who lives in self-imposed exile over corruption charges, have won the past five elections with the backing of populous farming regions. [read more...]

Full story: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-02-10/thai-opposition-turns-to-farmers-as-political-stalemate-lingers.html

-- Bloomberg 2014-02-11

[mightyatom]

And before the red anti Suthep mob chime in.....

The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

End of.

[zaphodbeeblebrox]

Thai Farm Aid: another political slush fund designed to fill the personal coffers of politicians on both sides of the aisle.

Edited February 11, 2014 by zaphodbeeblebrox

[iancnx]

At last, an impartial story (almost) in the international media. Not long now....... Dubai or Montenegro?

[iancnx]

This is the bit that will perk up International observers who to date have indicated very little understanding of the scale of the alleged corruption!

Quote// The government spent $21 billion buying the grain from the two crop years starting October 2011. The World Bank estimated the annual loss at 200 billion baht ($6.1 billion). The International Monetary Fund in November called for the program to be replaced, while Moodys Investors Service said in June that losses from rice subsidies were credit negative for Thailands sovereign rating. //

To put it into context $6.1 billion represents @ 60% of the UK's contribution to the EU, or, roughly represents the cost of one of UK's new QE class aircraft carriers including 40 aircraft! http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/The-Fleet/Ships/Future-Ships/Queen-Elizabeth-Class.

It should be stressed to the Red believers of populist policies that the losses of $6.1 billion are per annum!

Edited February 11, 2014 by iancnx

[noitom]

Now they are fighting for the farmers. Two years ago they were pounding the table to defeat "populist" programs of all sorts. Seven years ago they were screaming and yelling because Thaksin wanted them to have health covergae. Now they need them. Three months ago they were saying that farmers were no capable of understanding their vote so they shouldn't have one. Now they need them. Hypocrisy.

[Valentine]

Now they are fighting for the farmers. Two years ago they were pounding the table to defeat "populist" programs of all sorts. Seven years ago they were screaming and yelling because Thaksin wanted them to have health covergae. Now they need them. Three months ago they were saying that farmers were no capable of understanding their vote so they shouldn't have one. Now they need them. Hypocrisy.

Your post is the one which is full of hypocrisy as you should try reading up on what the Dems did do regards their rice policy.

[chainarong]

Now they are fighting for the farmers. Two years ago they were pounding the table to defeat "populist" programs of all sorts. Seven years ago they were screaming and yelling because Thaksin wanted them to have health covergae. Now they need them. Three months ago they were saying that farmers were no capable of understanding their vote so they shouldn't have one. Now they need them. Hypocrisy.

Your post is the one which is full of hypocrisy as you should try reading up on what the Dems did do regards their rice policy.

I agree, the agreement with the farmers from the Democrats (Abhisit) was far superior to the slush fund set up by the PTP and workable.

[Scamper]

Fabulous article from Bloomberg, who seem to be a step ahead of most foreign coverage. Indeed, there is a possible realignment going on right now in the country, as the farmers - a huge chunk of the Thaksin coalition - begin to significantly break away. Whether or not they go to the Democrats ( this article seems to think that will not happen. I tend to agree with that assessment ) - it is good for the political system, and breaks down the two party system to include other parties. More parties means a stronger public voice as it forces a climate of consensus. Provided of course that it excludes Thaksin's ability to impose himself on the system and to manipulate it towards his own ends. But any truly successful reform should make that impossible. This is the light at the end of the tunnel. The emancipation of the farmers - their break from the likes of Jatuporn and Thida - have now come into their own. That's exactly as it should be. They are a powerful sector just by themselves. They don't need people to corral them for their own ends - from either side of the political divide. But it is nonetheless a significant political opportunity for the Democrats to now include this long neglected constituency - to include the aspirations of the North, and to try to forge a national consensus that bridges the diversity of the country under one roof - something that neither party has up until now been able to achieve.

Edited February 11, 2014 by Scamper

[RubbaJohnny]

I think the really stale mate is in UAE?

[tingtongteesood]

Now they are fighting for the farmers. Two years ago they were pounding the table to defeat "populist" programs of all sorts. Seven years ago they were screaming and yelling because Thaksin wanted them to have health covergae. Now they need them. Three months ago they were saying that farmers were no capable of understanding their vote so they shouldn't have one. Now they need them. Hypocrisy.

Your post is the one which is full of hypocrisy as you should try reading up on what the Dems did do regards their rice policy.

I agree, the agreement with the farmers from the Democrats (Abhisit) was far superior to the slush fund set up by the PTP and workable.

Considering the vast amounts of hypocrisy that comes from Taksin,Yinbglack, cronies, UDD, Reds etc. hearing that word from one of the brainwashed red sheeple is just too much for me to take !!!

[iancnx]

But you will notice just how quiet it is in here. The reds don't like the foreign media broadcasting the truth, and $6.1 billion losses in alleged corruption is enough to scare off even the most avid Shin supporter. All so very very quiet on this thread. Pathetic!

[fab4]

Now who was it that called me naive because I said that suthep was using the farmers, and their viewpoint was that he was helping them?

First Reuters and now Bloomberg have seen through sutheps BS, even if some posters on this forum haven't.

The demonstrators led by former opposition lawmaker Suthep Thaugsuban are looking to capitalize on a potential crack in Yingluck’s rural support base, inviting farmers to speak on protest stages and raising money to help them file lawsuits against her government.

[Crushdepth]

Risks a backlash? Hello...

[iancnx]

Now who was it that called me naive because I said that suthep was using the farmers, and their viewpoint was that he was helping them?

First Reuters and now Bloomberg have seen through sutheps BS, even if some posters on this forum haven't.

The demonstrators led by former opposition lawmaker Suthep Thaugsuban are looking to capitalize on a potential crack in Yinglucks rural support base, inviting farmers to speak on protest stages and raising money to help them file lawsuits against her government.

Are you suggesting Suthep ventured North and East to corral the poor farmers like dumbass buffalo?

The farmers are protesting of their OWN volition. You just insult them to suggest otherwise. How long have you lived in rural Thailand where it is really hurting now?

[fab4]

Now they are fighting for the farmers. Two years ago they were pounding the table to defeat "populist" programs of all sorts. Seven years ago they were screaming and yelling because Thaksin wanted them to have health covergae. Now they need them. Three months ago they were saying that farmers were no capable of understanding their vote so they shouldn't have one. Now they need them. Hypocrisy.

Your post is the one which is full of hypocrisy as you should try reading up on what the Dems did do regards their rice policy.

Considering the vast amounts of hypocrisy that comes from Taksin,Yinbglack, cronies, UDD, Reds etc. hearing that word from one of the brainwashed red sheeple is just too much for me to take !!!

Such hypocrisy as pointed out in that very same article - but I suppose you didn't take any notice of this part

“Those in the north and northeast will see the sudden embrace of farmers as political shenanigans and will probably dismiss it,” Hewison said. “It is very difficult for these rural voters to accept that they are buffaloes one day and heroes the next.”

[iancnx]

Now they are fighting for the farmers. Two years ago they were pounding the table to defeat "populist" programs of all sorts. Seven years ago they were screaming and yelling because Thaksin wanted them to have health covergae. Now they need them. Three months ago they were saying that farmers were no capable of understanding their vote so they shouldn't have one. Now they need them. Hypocrisy.

Your post is the one which is full of hypocrisy as you should try reading up on what the Dems did do regards their rice policy.

Considering the vast amounts of hypocrisy that comes from Taksin,Yinbglack, cronies, UDD, Reds etc. hearing that word from one of the brainwashed red sheeple is just too much for me to take !!!

Such hypocrisy as pointed out in that very same article - but I suppose you didn't take any notice of this part

Those in the north and northeast will see the sudden embrace of farmers as political shenanigans and will probably dismiss it, Hewison said. It is very difficult for these rural voters to accept that they are buffaloes one day and heroes the next.

Incoherent twaddle. Suggest return to fridge and extract another Chang Classic. There are some good threads on FAB hangover cures for the morning

[Anon999]

Now who was it that called me naive because I said that suthep was using the farmers, and their viewpoint was that he was helping them?

First Reuters and now Bloomberg have seen through sutheps BS, even if some posters on this forum haven't.

The demonstrators led by former opposition lawmaker Suthep Thaugsuban are looking to capitalize on a potential crack in Yingluck’s rural support base, inviting farmers to speak on protest stages and raising money to help them file lawsuits against her government.

If you are a native English speaker then your understanding of the English language can only be described as poor. Alternatively you're endeavouring to say the opposite to what the facts are. Providing the farmers with a stage to present their views you may consider trying to use them. However, who else will provide the farmers with the same chance PTP?

[iancnx]

Now who was it that called me naive because I said that suthep was using the farmers, and their viewpoint was that he was helping them?

First Reuters and now Bloomberg have seen through sutheps BS, even if some posters on this forum haven't.

The demonstrators led by former opposition lawmaker Suthep Thaugsuban are looking to capitalize on a potential crack in Yinglucks rural support base, inviting farmers to speak on protest stages and raising money to help them file lawsuits against her government.

If you are a native English speaker then your understanding of the English language can only be described as poor. Alternatively you're endeavouring to say the opposite to what the facts are. Providing the farmers with a stage to present their views you may consider trying to use them. However, who else will provide the farmers with the same chance PTP?

I am British, and at the moment I don't see your point. But happy for you to expand without the quotes? What is your point?

[Muhendis]

Fabulous article from Bloomberg, who seem to be a step ahead of most foreign coverage. Indeed, there is a possible realignment going on right now in the country, as the farmers - a huge chunk of the Thaksin coalition - begin to significantly break away. Whether or not they go to the Democrats ( this article seems to think that will not happen. I tend to agree with that assessment ) - it is good for the political system, and breaks down the two party system to include other parties. More parties means a stronger public voice as it forces a climate of consensus. Provided of course that it excludes Thaksin's ability to impose himself on the system and to manipulate it towards his own ends. But any truly successful reform should make that impossible. This is the light at the end of the tunnel. The emancipation of the farmers - their break from the likes of Jatuporn and Thida - have now come into their own. That's exactly as it should be. They are a powerful sector just by themselves. They don't need people to corral them for their own ends - from either side of the political divide. But it is nonetheless a significant political opportunity for the Democrats to now include this long neglected constituency - to include the aspirations of the North, and to try to forge a national consensus that bridges the diversity of the country under one roof - something that neither party has up until now been able to achieve.

Nice summing up Scamper.

How about the bit that says, "While unpaid farmers have “legitimate grievances,” so far the protests appear to involve farmers from outside the Pheu Thai party’s heartland, said Kevin Hewison, director of the Asia Research Centre at Murdoch University in Perth."

A good question would seem to be to wonder why the Pheu Thai party’s heartland farmers are not protesting.

[Publicus]

Fabulous article from Bloomberg, who seem to be a step ahead of most foreign coverage. Indeed, there is a possible realignment going on right now in the country, as the farmers - a huge chunk of the Thaksin coalition - begin to significantly break away. Whether or not they go to the Democrats ( this article seems to think that will not happen. I tend to agree with that assessment ) - it is good for the political system, and breaks down the two party system to include other parties. More parties means a stronger public voice as it forces a climate of consensus. Provided of course that it excludes Thaksin's ability to impose himself on the system and to manipulate it towards his own ends. But any truly successful reform should make that impossible. This is the light at the end of the tunnel. The emancipation of the farmers - their break from the likes of Jatuporn and Thida - have now come into their own. That's exactly as it should be. They are a powerful sector just by themselves. They don't need people to corral them for their own ends - from either side of the political divide. But it is nonetheless a significant political opportunity for the Democrats to now include this long neglected constituency - to include the aspirations of the North, and to try to forge a national consensus that bridges the diversity of the country under one roof - something that neither party has up until now been able to achieve.

From the Bloomberg article that certain posters don't like to quote or cite, or to face up to or think about.

The Ministry of Finance is in the process of seeking the funds to pay farmers, Finance Minister Kittiratt Na-Ranong told reporters today. “It will take a while to comply with legal processes. All farmers will then be paid.”

“The government is making payments to farmers who sold rice during October and November, and will pay those who sold rice during December to January,” Kittiratt said

Winning over Thaksin’s rural supporters, known as red shirts, “would require the anti-Thaksin coalition to recognize and accept the red shirts for who they are,” Thitinan of Chulalongkorn University said.

“They are the voices that used to be neglected, the voices that found an outlet under Thaksin, that found recognition, and these voices if incorporated into the fold could move Thailand forward,” he said.

In other words, a snowball's chance in hell.

[oldthaihand99]

This is the bit that will perk up International observers who to date have indicated very little understanding of the scale of the alleged corruption!

Quote// The government spent $21 billion buying the grain from the two crop years starting October 2011. The World Bank estimated the annual loss at 200 billion baht ($6.1 billion). The International Monetary Fund in November called for the program to be replaced, while Moodys Investors Service said in June that losses from rice subsidies were credit negative for Thailands sovereign rating. //

To put it into context $6.1 billion represents @ 60% of the UK's contribution to the EU, or, roughly represents the cost of one of UK's new QE class aircraft carriers including 40 aircraft! http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/The-Fleet/Ships/Future-Ships/Queen-Elizabeth-Class.

It should be stressed to the Red believers of populist policies that the losses of $6.1 billion are per annum!

Ultimately it will be lost taxpayers money, while the rice farmers benefit from getting paid way more than their crops were worth. So some losers (the rich) & many winners (the poor). Robin Hood at work. Again. As Spock would say, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

"....its acceptable for the USA and many other countries to run "losses" as you say, as they are spending too much on their own subsidies, welfare systems, military etc. And here you are bemoaning Thailand for running a loss on one scheme."

Edited February 11, 2014 by oldthaihand99

[englishoak]

Butter mountains, grain mountains, milk lakes its nothing new and yes it matters here because its a "special" place with "special" people

[casualbiker]

Butter mountains, grain mountains, milk lakes its nothing new and yes it matters here because its a "special" place with "special" people

did they sell the Butter, grain and milk?

Where were these mountains?

It's not really the rice mountain as such that is the problem. The problem is that it should never have happened in the first place.. interfering in a relatively well organised industry, It was number 1 rice exporter after all!

Now number 3. That's going to take time and effort to get back. don't you think?

[JRSoul]

Ultimately it will be lost taxpayers money, while the rice farmers benefit from getting paid way more than their crops were worth. So some losers (the rich) & many winners (the poor). Robin Hood at work. Again. As Spock would say, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

"....its acceptable for the USA and many other countries to run "losses" as you say, as they are spending too much on their own subsidies, welfare systems, military etc. And here you are bemoaning Thailand for running a loss on one scheme."

How do "rice farmers benefit from getting paid way more than their crops were worth" when they are not paid?

If $6 billion has been lost each year, why are rice farmers not showing obvious signs of increased wealth?

[oldthaihand99]

Ultimately it will be lost taxpayers money, while the rice farmers benefit from getting paid way more than their crops were worth. So some losers (the rich) & many winners (the poor). Robin Hood at work. Again. As Spock would say, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

"....its acceptable for the USA and many other countries to run "losses" as you say, as they are spending too much on their own subsidies, welfare systems, military etc. And here you are bemoaning Thailand for running a loss on one scheme."

How do "rice farmers benefit from getting paid way more than their crops were worth" when they are not paid?

If $6 billion has been lost each year, why are rice farmers not showing obvious signs of increased wealth?

According to the discussion "the government spent $21 billion buying the grain from the two crop years starting October 2011". Therefore it assumes payment has already been made, even if only on paper. Therefore since said payment made was way above market prices, the farmers were paid way more than their crops were worth. Kapish?

As for "signs of increased wealth" amongst those who have already recieved cash payment in full, far beyond their expectations, obviously they have increased their wealth regardless of whether you've seen signs of it or not.

[JRSoul]

Ultimately it will be lost taxpayers money, while the rice farmers benefit from getting paid way more than their crops were worth. So some losers (the rich) & many winners (the poor). Robin Hood at work. Again. As Spock would say, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

"....its acceptable for the USA and many other countries to run "losses" as you say, as they are spending too much on their own subsidies, welfare systems, military etc. And here you are bemoaning Thailand for running a loss on one scheme."

How do "rice farmers benefit from getting paid way more than their crops were worth" when they are not paid?

If $6 billion has been lost each year, why are rice farmers not showing obvious signs of increased wealth?

According to the discussion "the government spent $21 billion buying the grain from the two crop years starting October 2011". Therefore it assumes payment has already been made, even if only on paper. Therefore since said payment made was way above market prices, the farmers were paid way more than their crops were worth. Kapish?

As for "signs of increased wealth" amongst those who have already recieved cash payment in full, far beyond their expectations, obviously they have increased their wealth regardless of whether you've seen signs of it or not.

Your argument fails on 2 levels. Farmers are NOT being paid now, and payments "on paper" are worth less than toilet tissue when the payments are not forthcoming.

Your second point regarding my perception relies on all that dosh actually being paid to farmers, when that is far from the case. If PTP has handed 3 million farmers $2000 each per year, I would expect to see signs of prosperity and lower debt levels, and Thailand would still have a viable rice industry.

[TVGerry]

We all know what this rice scam is all about. To enrich a few PTP crony middlemen while at the same time securing the votes of the rice farmers during the last election. Look what has happened now. The whole scheme has been exposed and the farmers whom the Shinawatras are pretending to care about have been screwed over big time.Something that was supposed to make their lives better has made it so much worse that some have even killed themselves. And Thai taxpayers are getting robbed of billions of their hard earned money to support this scam.

.

The Shinawatras as usual want to blame someone else for their corruption and failures, this time the anti government protestors. It won't work.. The foreign press won't believe their lies and more importantly, even the farmers won't be hoodwinked into blaming the wrong people this time. We don't need all the brainwashed red farmers to turn against the Shin scum but just a few who are here now protesting side by side with Bangkok protestors is a good start. It's the beginning of the end of the Shinawatra kleptocracy.

[ShannonT]

We all know what this rice scam is all about. To enrich a few PTP crony middlemen while at the same time securing the votes of the rice farmers during the last election. Look what has happened now. The whole scheme has been exposed and the farmers whom the Shinawatras are pretending to care about have been screwed over big time.Something that was supposed to make their lives better has made it so much worse that some have even killed themselves. And Thai taxpayers are getting robbed of billions of their hard earned money to support this scam.

You obviously don't know how governments work. Do you really think all government programs around the world, in the United States, in the UK, in other European countries, etc. are money making machines and none of them post any losses?

Some programs make money, others lose money. It's like that everywhere around the world.

You're living in a dream world.

[oldthaihand99]

Ultimately it will be lost taxpayers money, while the rice farmers benefit from getting paid way more than their crops were worth. So some losers (the rich) & many winners (the poor). Robin Hood at work. Again. As Spock would say, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

"....its acceptable for the USA and many other countries to run "losses" as you say, as they are spending too much on their own subsidies, welfare systems, military etc. And here you are bemoaning Thailand for running a loss on one scheme."

How do "rice farmers benefit from getting paid way more than their crops were worth" when they are not paid?

If $6 billion has been lost each year, why are rice farmers not showing obvious signs of increased wealth?

According to the discussion "the government spent $21 billion buying the grain from the two crop years starting October 2011". Therefore it assumes payment has already been made, even if only on paper. Therefore since said payment made was way above market prices, the farmers were paid way more than their crops were worth. Kapish?

As for "signs of increased wealth" amongst those who have already recieved cash payment in full, far beyond their expectations, obviously they have increased their wealth regardless of whether you've seen signs of it or not.

Your argument fails on 2 levels. Farmers are NOT being paid now, and payments "on paper" are worth less than toilet tissue when the payments are not forthcoming.

Your second point regarding my perception relies on all that dosh actually being paid to farmers, when that is far from the case. If PTP has handed 3 million farmers $2000 each per year, I would expect to see signs of prosperity and lower debt levels, and Thailand would still have a viable rice industry.

The topic assumes payment being made & rice sold at a loss relative to that payment, so you are off topic.

Moreover you generalize about farmers not being paid when in reality many have been paid since 2011 & non payment only regards some recent payments since later 2013.

BTW i don't see 3 million farmers protesting, only a minute percentage of that far less than one percent.

Edited February 11, 2014 by oldthaihand99