Nationwide Uk's Debit Card In Thailand

[topfield]

We Brits know that the Nationwide debit card is unique with no charges, commissions, loadings, or fees and the best exchange rate available at the time..

But does anyone know what happens after we use our card here in Thailand at an ATM ?

I was told and always believed that the amount is immediately sent on to VISA UK where the baht are exchanged for sterling and the total debited to ones Nationwide account which is viewable on line within 48 hours max of the cash withdrawal.

Today however , in response to a query, N/W informed me that what in fact happens is the Thai bank that owns the ATM does the exchange which is then passed on as a debit to N/W.

Does anyone know the true facts ?

Your reply much appreciated

[Chivas]

We Brits know that the Nationwide debit card is unique with no charges, commissions, loadings, or fees and the best exchange rate available at the time..

But does anyone know what happens after we use our card here in Thailand at an ATM ?

I was told and always believed that the amount is immediately sent on to VISA UK where the baht are exchanged for sterling and the total debited to ones Nationwide account which is viewable on line within 48 hours max of the cash withdrawal.

Today however , in response to a query, N/W informed me that what in fact happens is the Thai bank that owns the ATM does the exchange which is then passed on as a debit to N/W.

Does anyone know the true facts ?

Your reply much appreciated

I cannot answer your specific query in your post but I can say that whilst there are no OBVIOUS loadings,commissions,or fees with Nationwides flex card their forex rate takes into account the normal "1.5%" cash advance rates all UK banks charge.

IE its marginally less but so subtle you wont see it.

To holders of a flex card AND another banks debit card (who charge 1.5%) just withdraw from same ATM 10,000 baht or whatever, and you will see identical "bottom line" debits on your account.

Any doubters try for yourself-its amazing and extremely brilliant marketing how Nationwide have, and still continue to market the "Flex"

[topfield]

Exactly...that is probably true and thats the reason I am trying to get at the truth !

Nationwide up to now just will not give the facts or reveal WHEN the conversion takes place.

If we can get the answer it would be a simple matter to check what the interbank rate was at that time and what rate n/w used ......and then we would know if they are adding a hidden cash withdrawal charge or not.

I withdrew a large cash sum at a BKK ATM on 25 May. The rate has now come through at 71.77 and dated 25 May.. Checking with Yahoo finance , that day the rate was never below 72 and averaged 72.30, so it does seem they add a hidden charge as even the travellers cheque rate that afternoon was 71.85 !!

Anybody else can shed light on this matter ? Are we being subjected to hidden charges ??

.

[Chivas]

Exactly...that is probably true and thats the reason I am trying to get at the truth !

Nationwide up to now just will not give the facts or reveal WHEN the conversion takes place.

If we can get the answer it would be a simple matter to check what the interbank rate was at that time and what rate n/w used ......and then we would know if they are adding a hidden cash withdrawal charge or not.

I withdrew a large cash sum at a BKK ATM on 25 May. The rate has now come through at 71.77 and dated 25 May.. Checking with Yahoo finance , that day the rate was never below 72 and averaged 72.30, so it does seem they add a hidden charge as even the travellers cheque rate that afternoon was 71.85 !!

Anybody else can shed light on this matter ? Are we being subjected to hidden charges ??

.

Topfield,

There are no HIDDEN CHARGES.The forex rate quite simply takes into account the 1.5% all other merchants charge (and openly admit) and amalgamate it into the rate given !!

Ive read this <deleted> on message boards ever since Nationwide introduced the "Flex" but no one can educate ALL the people ALL the time !

Ask yourself the question-how do Nationwide charge jack <deleted> when everybody else charges 1.5%

Answer-they dont !

[Guest endure]

We Brits know that the Nationwide debit card is unique with no charges, commissions, loadings, or fees and the best exchange rate available at the time..

But does anyone know what happens after we use our card here in Thailand at an ATM ?

I was told and always believed that the amount is immediately sent on to VISA UK where the baht are exchanged for sterling and the total debited to ones Nationwide account which is viewable on line within 48 hours max of the cash withdrawal.

Today however , in response to a query, N/W informed me that what in fact happens is the Thai bank that owns the ATM does the exchange which is then passed on as a debit to N/W.

Does anyone know the true facts ?

Your reply much appreciated

I cannot answer your specific query in your post but I can say that whilst there are no OBVIOUS loadings,commissions,or fees with Nationwides flex card their forex rate takes into account the normal "1.5%" cash advance rates all UK banks charge.

IE its marginally less but so subtle you wont see it.

To holders of a flex card AND another banks debit card (who charge 1.5%) just withdraw from same ATM 10,000 baht or whatever, and you will see identical "bottom line" debits on your account.

Any doubters try for yourself-its amazing and extremely brilliant marketing how Nationwide have, and still continue to market the "Flex"

The difference is that most other UK banks charge not only 1.5% on the forex rate but anything up to 2.75% 'foreign currency' charge.

[Totster]

There are no hidden charges....

The exchange rate you see on sites such as xe.com etc.. are always approx 0.5 above the rate that UK high street banks use.

When I was using Lloyds and Abbey National to make withdrawals I was getting a rate at around 1.0 below xe.com plus 1.5% and £2.75

So.. Chivas.. YOU are wrong.

And lets face it.. who cares.. Whatever you believe, using Nationwide is still the cheapest (can't get any cheaper than free) way to withdraw money from an ATM in Thailand.. because there are no charges.

totster

[topfield]

So up to now around half of those posting believe there is a hidden charge and half do not but amazingly all accept that the rate can be one and a half percent or fifty stang less than interbank which they.... as typically hardened sceptical Brits believe, just cannot be obtainable.

Sorry folks but interbank rates ARE obtainable even by semi serious investors.

Yes the baht can be traded at, as an example, 71.31 -71.36 bid /offer.

THESE ARE SPREADS NATIONWIDE CAN EASILY OBTAIN and in fact may be obtaining .

The big question is ...are they passing on these rates to their customers ????

see http://www.fxstreet.com/nou/graph/sensefra...tesnetdania.asp for interbank rates.

All this discussion is beside the point however. Nobody yet on this forum ...its far too soon anyway ...has come up with the answer as to how and when N/W fix their ATM exchange rates !

If we could find out this basic information to which I honestly believe we are entitled to, we would be in a position to judge definitively whether Nationwide are giving the market rate without fees, loadings charges etc which they claim they are doing...or perhaps adding a nice fat turn for themselves ??? At the moment we are just not in a position to judge so lets hope some expat living here has discovered the answer and posts it on this forum for all to see..

[Totster]

Jesus...

Personally I couldn't give a shit, and can't understand why anybody could be this bothered about it.. at the end of the day.. compared to the rest, Nationwide out performs on rates, and has no charges. How they do this and why they do this is none of my concern.

If you think Nationwide are making a big fat turn and you are unhappy about this, use another bank, like Lloyds, pay the extortionate fees and then maybe you'll be happy

totster

[briley]

Some people get things so wrong.

As Totster said NW do not make the 2.5% and above charge made by all other UK cards (except Liverpool Victoria) and so are at least 2.5% "cheaper" than any other card. In addition the 2.5% often has a minimum of £3 per transaction, even if you only withdraw £10.

So using NW to get 7,000 baht (at 70 baht to £1) and NW debit you with £100 - all other banks debit £102.50 minimum. That's at least 4 bottles of beer.

Then you have the exchange rate. Topfiled: 1.5% of an exchange rate of 70 baht to £1 is just over 1 baht not 50 sateng (spelling?). I believe you get the telegraphic transfer rate offered by the bank that operates the ATM. In Thailand this is around 0.5 baht less than the actual exchange rate. If on the other hand you sell baht you will pay about 0.5 baht more than the actual exchange rate - this gives a spread between the buy and sell rate of about 1.5%. This is a profit to the Thai bank and the reason they are willing to let you use their ATM machine for no further charge. Don't forget many ATM withdrawals in Thailand attract a charge of a few baht.

So using a NW card does 'cost' about 0.75% of the exchange rate to give a profit to the Thai bank. NW do not make any charge at all.

For information you will get the exchange rate set the day after your withdrawal. Looking at the NW web site and you will find the initial amount deducted from your account is always a little too much, and is corrected on day 3 or 4 when it stops being a trasaction in progress and becomes a withdrawal (or words to that effect)

[topfield]

Some people get things so wrong.

As Totster said NW do not make the 2.5% and above charge made by all other UK cards (except Liverpool Victoria) and so are at least 2.5% "cheaper" than any other card. In addition the 2.5% often has a minimum of £3 per transaction, even if you only withdraw £10.

So using NW to get 7,000 baht (at 70 baht to £1) and NW debit you with £100 - all other banks debit £102.50 minimum. That's at least 4 bottles of beer.

Then you have the exchange rate. Topfiled: 1.5% of an exchange rate of 70 baht to £1 is just over 1 baht not 50 sateng (spelling?). I believe you get the telegraphic transfer rate offered by the bank that operates the ATM. In Thailand this is around 0.5 baht less than the actual exchange rate. If on the other hand you sell baht you will pay about 0.5 baht more than the actual exchange rate - this gives a spread between the buy and sell rate of about 1.5%. This is a profit to the Thai bank and the reason they are willing to let you use their ATM machine for no further charge. Don't forget many ATM withdrawals in Thailand attract a charge of a few baht.

So using a NW card does 'cost' about 0.75% of the exchange rate to give a profit to the Thai bank. NW do not make any charge at all.

For information you will get the exchange rate set the day after your withdrawal. Looking at the NW web site and you will find the initial amount deducted from your account is always a little too much, and is corrected on day 3 or 4 when it stops being a trasaction in progress and becomes a withdrawal (or words to that effect)

from topfield :

Thanks. Clearly you have a very good understanding about the flex card (as people call it)

Of course 50 stang (satang ) is not one and a haf percent percent ! It is the figure quoted by different people in their postings above as being acceptable/being charged . Yes fifty stang is normally the amount banks pay below the tt rate. Spot on....except change offices such as Vasu and Super Rich (Bkk) sometimes offer note rates just 25 stang less than the tt rate if 50 pound notes.

Back to flexcard ; Yes , I have also heard that each bank fixes its own rate on its ATM'S so made an experiment on Sukumvit Soi 3 last week withdrawing 500 baht at six different bank's ATMS in ten mins.

When the rates came through the following day ALL ARRIVED TOGETHER ANDTHE RATES WERE ALL IDENTICAL !!

Its a million to one chance that each bank with its own different rate sheet sheet should have have same rate taking same time ! It would indicate that the different Thai banks have a joint pool and like the banks at the airport fix one rate for all banks' ATM'S !!.

You were also spot on about the pre exchange rate ! I timed the time it took from when the money was withdrawn at the ATM until it showed up on internet banking as a deduction from "amount available" ..it was LESS THAN THREE MINUTES ! As to when the final rate appeared on on internet banking it, varied from 18 hours to three days !

[topfield]

SEEMS WE WERE ALL WRONG AND N/W DOES IN FACT USE THE INTERBANK RATE

Fact : Yesterday at 3.30 pm 26 May I withrew 500 baht at both Krung Thai & Siam Commercial ATMs on Sukumvit soi 3 BKK using of course my flex card.

At 9am this morning the amount appeared on my online banking thus taking 18 hours ....again both with identical exchange rate of ......... BHT 71.63. !!!

Checking just now on the SCB website what their highest rate actually was at 3.15pm yesterday 26 May , it was 71.07 for the transfer rate !!

Yes friends..... the rate flex gave was the full interbank rate as shown on the Yahoo finance webpage at 3.20 pm yesterday !! EXPLAIN THAT .... I CAN'T !!

[briley]

Same exchange rate? Not a surprise as the rate given is the international rate - goodness knows what it's actual name is.

The rate is set by the markets and used by Visa, Mastercard, banks etc You can see how often Bangkok bank change their rates on their web site, up to 8 times a working day and often by next to nothing.

BUT when I made a withdrawal inside Bangkok Bank (they used their little visa machine) and then imediately at the ATM outside the rates did vary - not much but a few decimal points. My gut feeling is that inside the bank I got todays rate, but the ATM gave me tomorrows rate.

I'm surprised it took 3 minutes for an ATM withdrawal to turn up on yopur account, should be instantaneous since the machine won't give you the money unless the NW computer says OK. :-)

[topfield]

Same exchange rate? Not a surprise as the rate given is the international rate - goodness knows what it's actual name is.

The rate is set by the markets and used by Visa, Mastercard, banks etc You can see how often Bangkok bank change their rates on their web site, up to 8 times a working day and often by next to nothing.

BUT when I made a withdrawal inside Bangkok Bank (they used their little visa machine) and then imediately at the ATM outside the rates did vary - not much but a few decimal points. My gut feeling is that inside the bank I got todays rate, but the ATM gave me tomorrows rate.

I'm surprised it took 3 minutes for an ATM withdrawal to turn up on yopur account, should be instantaneous since the machine won't give you the money unless the NW computer says OK. :-)

from topfield

You may be dead right that the amount available is deducted in seconds ...I wrote three minutes in my posting as thats the time it took me to run back home from the ATM to check online banking on my computer and see the amount available to me had been reduced . Next time I will have my daughter watch constantly my computer screen while I make my ATM withdrawal and have her note down the time of the exact moment the lower amount available was noted on the screen.

Very interesting new point was raised in your posting namely that the rate on a cash withdrawal done manually inside a bank is different to that on a ATM used simultaneously.

May I enquire which was higher.... inside the bank or at the ATM ?

Finally I note you mentioned the VISA rate might in fact be the one being used !

So now we have come full circle as I had always been led to believe by N/W it was the VISA rate they used and not the rate used by the Thai banks, that is applied when one uses ones flex card . That was denied by a N/W clerk in my last message from them when I queried the issue and am taking up the matter with them once more.!!

[briley]

OK so you are making me do some research .................

11th November 2005

Inside Bangkok branch 71.671 baht

At ATM outside 71.551 baht

The bad news is that the Fx rate on Friday 11th was 71.335, on next working day (Monday) it was 71.2825 in the morning (lower) and 71.4625 in the afternoon (higher).

Whatever I got BETTER than the Bangkok bank FX rate at Bangkok bank!

Explain that?

PS if nationwide staff know anything about anything I'll eat my hat. They've given me the most rediculous answers to questions in the past.

Edited May 27, 2006 by briley

[samran]

OK so you are making me do some research .................

11th November 2005

Inside Bangkok branch 71.671 baht

At ATM outside 71.551 baht

The bad news is that the Fx rate on Friday 11th was 71.335, on next working day (Monday) it was 71.2825 in the morning (lower) and 71.4625 in the afternoon (higher).

Whatever I got BETTER than the Bangkok bank FX rate at Bangkok bank!

Explain that?

PS if nationwide staff know anything about anything I'll eat my hat. They've given me the most rediculous answers to questions in the past.

My guess has always been that Nationwide, as a responsible company (for its shareholders) would be taking out a series for forward contracts on THB to control its FOREX exposure.

As a result, the exchange rate you are going to get at the ATM will always be near the going interbank rate, but as the example in the quote shows, will not make any sense if you try comparing it to the going interbank rate. Of course the forward rate they have will depend on their forecast need for THB at any moment in time and the qantity they end up forward contracting for.

So, just take it for granted that you are going to get the best rate from nation wide. They are still making money from you using their cards (be very sure of that) having hedged their exposure to currency flucutations in advance. They must have some pretty smart cookies sitting at their FOREX trading desks who can accomplish this, rather than relying on the blunter arrangement of larger spreads and fees to buffer them against adverse movements in the THB/GBP exchange rate.

[chaiyapoon]

I have been using The Nationwide flex for four years now and have withdrawn tens of thousands of pounds(in Baht)during that time and always have been very pleased with the rate I get,so much so I rarely check anymore.It is the BEST. I've checked with friends using other banks cards and I'm always infront.

[Guest endure]

OK so you are making me do some research .................

11th November 2005

Inside Bangkok branch 71.671 baht

At ATM outside 71.551 baht

The bad news is that the Fx rate on Friday 11th was 71.335, on next working day (Monday) it was 71.2825 in the morning (lower) and 71.4625 in the afternoon (higher).

Whatever I got BETTER than the Bangkok bank FX rate at Bangkok bank!

Explain that?

PS if nationwide staff know anything about anything I'll eat my hat. They've given me the most rediculous answers to questions in the past.

My guess has always been that Nationwide, as a responsible company (for its shareholders)

Nationwide doesn't have any shareholders. It's a mutually-owned Bulding Society, owned by its members i.e all those who have accounts with it.

[samran]

Nationwide doesn't have any shareholders. It's a mutually-owned Bulding Society, owned by its members i.e all those who have accounts with it.

OK, it still has to be prudent with its members money then. In my experience however, a bank is a bank is a bank is a bank, and while they not be strictly for profit, they wouldn't be trading currency willy-nilly and leave themselves a the whims of the FOREX markets...it would be plain irresposible whether you were a for profit company or otherwise.

[briley]

I am certain that NW do not 'trade' in currencies or forward buy Baht so we can withdraw £1,000 from an ATM - the amount is too small and the risk too high.

NW - or more probably the Thai bank, use the up to the minute Interbank rate (Thanks, I'd totally forgotten that phrase!)

Whilst agreeing with Chaiyapoon that NW is always by far the best I am a curious peron by nature hence my interest.

[topfield]

So it seems certain that there are just two possibilities as to the exchange rate used

1. the VISA rate fixed in UK /USA OR

2. The Thai banks pool rate

Now how about this found on the Siam Commercial Bank exchange rate page , at the bottom in tiny letters :

FOR CREDIT CARD (CASH ADVANCE RATE) THIS RATE IS APPLICABLE FOR

CREDIT CARD ISSUE BY BANK OUTSIDE THAILAND

FOR CREDIT CARD (CASH ADVANCE) US$1 = 36.99

When this "special rate" is converted to a pound rate , the result is A VERY BAD RATE INDEED

So it seems never use the flex card for cash withdrawal (or purchases) with this bank SCB other than by ATM when the pool rate* [whatever that may be] ..is applied

* pool rate is a rate that it seems ALL the different Thai banks are using for ATM cash withdrawals

Similar idea to pool rate used at the airport where ALL banks use identical rate.

[Bredbury Blue]

Joining this debate late, have a Nationwide card and i need to bring some money in.

So when we say NW card are we talking about any of there cards inclding their visa classic card? (Think they eveb do one called visa comic relief card).

And if so, are we only talking about drawing money from ATM machines in thailand with the cards, or cash-advances over the counter too?

Or is it a different scenario between money from ATM and over the counter?

Appreciate your comments so i can go and get the dosh the most economical way.

[Bredbury Blue]

Can anybody answer my questions - thanks.

[briley]

Taking about the debit card or (for some people) the ATM card. Not the Credit card that I think is called the classic visa card.

You pay for cash advances with the credit card.

[JASON THAI]

Just to change the subject a little how to N/W send out a new card to you when your out in Thailand ?

[briley]

They don't in my experience.

Will only send it to your UK registered address.

And if you don't have a UK address you can't have a nationwide account - well not the flex account.

[JASON THAI]

So what happens when your card expires, and you do not live in the UK

[samran]

mail rediversion.....

[Totster]

Relatives.....

totster

[8ball]

Just to add a little something extra to the discussion. I have both a Nationwide Flex acc. card and an Abbey direct saver cash card.

I can use both these cards overseas and have never recieved any charges on either, i believe the exchange rate on both cards to be similar. Nobody here seems to have mentioned that the Abbey card is free from charges, same as the Nationwide Flex card. Has nobody else noticed this?

I will be in thailand next week and will withdraw the same amounts, from the same atm, at the same time.

I will post the outcome and rates here in due course.

Cheers,

8ball.

[topfield]

Just to add a little something extra to the discussion. I have both a Nationwide Flex acc. card and an Abbey direct saver cash card.

I can use both these cards overseas and have never recieved any charges on either, i believe the exchange rate on both cards to be similar. Nobody here seems to have mentioned that the Abbey card is free from charges, same as the Nationwide Flex card. Has nobody else noticed this?

I will be in thailand next week and will withdraw the same amounts, from the same atm, at the same time.

I will post the outcome and rates here in due course.

Cheers,

8ball.

Twenty years ago I used the Abbey Link card here regularly. It was free of all charges and loadings.

I was so impressed I went to Abbey HO in Baker St to tell the Manager how pleased I was with their card. "So sorry" he said " from next year we are moving to a standard Visa card with charges"

'Why I asked" "Silly question" was his reply.." we dont make any money on it" !!!...so doubt it will be anywhere as good as the N/W miracle card.