Suthep seeks postponement of indictment

[backtonormal]

In a normal society thaksins conviction would get him in prison by extraditing him here. Instead he hides without fear in another country extending his influence here.

Isnt that enough evidence for you all to see that laws for politicians are treated differently than laws for normal average citizens.

Sent from my GT-S5310 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

In most jurisdictions, Thaksin's only conviction in a criminal case (for abuse of authority in the Rachada land case) would not constitute a crime.

His crime was to add his signature, as was at the time required by Thai law, to a bid by his then wife. The court judged that he was wrong to do this because he held the position of Prime Minister and a section in the Anti-Corruption Act forbids political office holders from entering into contracts with agencies under their control. There have been questions as to whether the agency in this case (the FIDF, under the control of the Bank of Thailand) is in fact under the control of the Prime Minister, and whether countersigning a bid constitutes entering into a contract. But in most systems (and in Thailand's today) there is no requirement for married women to provide a signature of approval by their husband.

Most extradition treaties do not allow extradition for crimes which are not considered crimes in the country of exile. (A Ugandan cannot be extradited from the UK on the grounds of a conviction for sodomy, for example). If a country has no law similar to Thailand's at that time, then the act for which he was convicted does not constitute a crime in that country and extradition will not be approved.

Nor, incidentally will an extradition treaty allow extradition where the penalty is substantially different from in the country of exile. Hence request for extradition to the US are routinely denied if a conviction could result in the death penalty. It would be an interesting exercise to discover how many countries set imprisonment for an offence of this kind. My guess would be precious few.

This is not to admit that Thaksin has not committed other acts of corruption. There is prima facie evidence of many, and of a far more serious nature than the Rachada land case. The question is why the Thai judicial system has chosen NOT to prosecute for these apparently far more serious offences. One is led to suspect that any such prosecution might also involve others who are being protected by the failure to prosecute.

That is an excellent post..regardless of where your allegiance lies. Two years for signing a document...politically motivated.

One is led to suspect that any such prosecution might also involve others who are being protected by the failure to prosecute.

The army stacking live bodies face down on trucks. Everybody knows this was intentional by the army, killing Thai citizens is what they do wothout remorse. I thought officers involved in the mosque incident had been charged. Accusing Thaksin of murder here is crazy when very senior military personnel were in control of the incident. Does anybody from the army ever get convicted...of anything...ever

Edited February 13, 2014 by backtonormal

[rubl]

In a normal society thaksins conviction would get him in prison by extraditing him here. Instead he hides without fear in another country extending his influence here.

Isnt that enough evidence for you all to see that laws for politicians are treated differently than laws for normal average citizens.

Sent from my GT-S5310 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

In most jurisdictions, Thaksin's only conviction in a criminal case (for abuse of authority in the Rachada land case) would not constitute a crime.

His crime was to add his signature, as was at the time required by Thai law, to a bid by his then wife. The court judged that he was wrong to do this because he held the position of Prime Minister and a section in the Anti-Corruption Act forbids political office holders from entering into contracts with agencies under their control. There have been questions as to whether the agency in this case (the FIDF, under the control of the Bank of Thailand) is in fact under the control of the Prime Minister, and whether countersigning a bid constitutes entering into a contract. But in most systems (and in Thailand's today) there is no requirement for married women to provide a signature of approval by their husband.

Most extradition treaties do not allow extradition for crimes which are not considered crimes in the country of exile. (A Ugandan cannot be extradited from the UK on the grounds of a conviction for sodomy, for example). If a country has no law similar to Thailand's at that time, then the act for which he was convicted does not constitute a crime in that country and extradition will not be approved.

Nor, incidentally will an extradition treaty allow extradition where the penalty is substantially different from in the country of exile. Hence request for extradition to the US are routinely denied if a conviction could result in the death penalty. It would be an interesting exercise to discover how many countries set imprisonment for an offence of this kind. My guess would be precious few.

This is not to admit that Thaksin has not committed other acts of corruption. There is prima facie evidence of many, and of a far more serious nature than the Rachada land case. The question is why the Thai judicial system has chosen NOT to prosecute for these apparently far more serious offences. One is led to suspect that any such prosecution might also involve others who are being protected by the failure to prosecute.

That is an excellent post..regardless of where your allegiance lies. Two years for signing a document...politically motivated.

One is led to suspect that any such prosecution might also involve others who are being protected by the failure to prosecute.

The army stacking live bodies face down on trucks. Everybody knows this was intentional by the army, killing Thai citizens is what they do wothout remorse. I thought officers involved in the mosque incident had been charged. Accusing Thaksin of murder here is crazy when very senior military personnel were in control of the incident. Does anybody from the army ever get convicted...of anything...ever

Actually the way the Thai Criminal Courts work (by law) is that a charge has to be acknowledged first by the accused before a case can start. The far more serious cases all await Thaksin's return which hopefully will be before the Statute of Limitation runs out.

[anotheruser]

You can't be serious.

Try postponing murder charges in any US or EU court with the reason that you are busy trying to topple a democratically elected government.

Charges which are false, brought about by Thaksin in the hope of forcing Abhisit or Suthep to agree an amnesty bill allowing the real criminal free return to Thailand!

Or did you forget that some red shirts didn't like that idea! Which is one of the reasons why PTP find themselves in trouble now.

Besides it's not postponement of murder charges! he has supposedly been charged already! he just hasn't acknowledged the charges yet! But until he is found GUILTY, he is innocent.

Why can't he acknowledge the murder charges?

Any other person accused of murder, do you think for a second that they would be allowed to use the excuse that they are "busy" and can't go to the court?

This kind of behavior by Suthep sets a very dangerous precedent because in the future other accused murderers will be able to use the same excuse based on it being allowed in Suthep's case.

He can not go to answer the charges because he knows that he will obviously be arrested if he does.

[kikoman]

You can't be serious.

Try postponing murder charges in any US or EU court with the reason that you are busy trying to topple a democratically elected government.

Lucky he is not in the US or the EU then heay….

Just because you can eat durian in a US or EU hotel doesn't mean you can eat it in a Thai hotel.

Your (PTP) logic dictates you can?

If he was in the US and tried to take over government offices by force he would ,now be dead or in prison, those are considered "Terrorist act" and would forcely been met force by the police and the Army! The courts does their job and try any and every one that failed to abide by the law of the land ,no matter who it represents.

Cheers

Edited February 13, 2014 by kikoman

[ggold]

You can't be serious.

Try postponing murder charges in any US or EU court with the reason that you are busy trying to topple a democratically elected government.

Not according to the Civil Court. Overthrowing the government is just an exercise in freedom of speech according to a recent court decision. Now say good night to democracy and hello to anarchy. Notice that although Thailand has a very significant economy, population, and strategic position in Asia, it is not on President Obama's tour of Asian allies (Japan, South Korea, Malaysia and Philippines)? Thailand is fast becoming a role model for anarchy and perhaps not a country US wants to associate with at this time. If the government is overthrown, you can expect the beginning of economic sanctions by the West.

you can expect the beginning of economic sanctions by the West.

That is a laughable comment! it will be business as usual, Thailand is hardly a rouge nation that threatens the west. get real!

Good post gg, I like your typo "rouge nation" rouge = red, and it would be if PTP had their way. You did mean rogue pf course?

pf course!

[ShannonT]

You can't be serious.

Try postponing murder charges in any US or EU court with the reason that you are busy trying to topple a democratically elected government.

Charges which are false, brought about by Thaksin in the hope of forcing Abhisit or Suthep to agree an amnesty bill allowing the real criminal free return to Thailand!

Or did you forget that some red shirts didn't like that idea! Which is one of the reasons why PTP find themselves in trouble now.

Besides it's not postponement of murder charges! he has supposedly been charged already! he just hasn't acknowledged the charges yet! But until he is found GUILTY, he is innocent.

Why can't he acknowledge the murder charges?

Any other person accused of murder, do you think for a second that they would be allowed to use the excuse that they are "busy" and can't go to the court?

This kind of behavior by Suthep sets a very dangerous precedent because in the future other accused murderers will be able to use the same excuse based on it being allowed in Suthep's case.

He can not go to answer the charges because he knows that he will obviously be arrested if he does.

That might be why then.

One would hope that a suspected murderer with an arrest warrant on his head would get arrested.

[BlueNoseCodger]

The charges don't show, the charges are 'pre-meditated murder' and towards private persons although both Abhisit and Suthep were in official functions (PM and Dept. PM respectively).

The prosecution will get a chance to 'show', that is if the court doesn't throw out the case because of incorrect procedures followed.

As for your links removed, well study the forum rules and if you still don't get it PM one of the mods.

It makes no difference if Abhisit was PM and Suthep deputy PM, if there is no law that lets them kill Thai people in their official capacity, then their office provides them no protection as individuals.

Pre-meditated simply means planned beforehand in a rational state of mind, and authorizing live fire in a meeting is pre-meditated.

I've read the forum rules and assume its considered inflamatory to even link videos of what happened, but perhaps that will change over time. This is recorded footage and is not censored in Thailand.

Well, that's where the prosecution will have a tough task. To prove that Abhisit/Suthep in their official functions wanted the army to kill protesters. The issuing of live rounds is a simple precaution. Who will send out unarmed the army or police to face armed militants and unknowns lobbing grenades?

As for your logic on office and private persons, well. they handled in official capacity as as private persons they would not be able to command the CRES or army. If they were private persons, the CRES is at fault to allow private persons to command them.

All this is just some more obfuscation and mudslinging, Abhisit nor Suthep killed Thai people, nor did they order the army to kill. Through their actions and commands they caused Thai people to be killed (including 16 non-red-shirts out of 92). If they are therefor guilty of murder than PM Yingluck is guilty of the deaths in the current anti-government protests. Same reasoning, no double standards here.

As for clips, Thai language only clips are discouraged, fake clips are forbidden.

BTW most of us who have been reading TVF for a year or more have seen most clips already a good dozen times. Both the real and the fake ones

These are arguments for the court and Suthep/Abhisit lawyers to make. At this stage, Suthep has avoided even facing the court at all.

I don't make the claim their actions and commands caused [unintentionally] Thai people to be killed, I believe their actions and commands intended to cause Thai people to be killed. Hence the murder charges. I believe the correct place for claims and counter claims is the court, and he needs to face his indictment.

Actually some of the posts have not been removed.

Edited February 13, 2014 by BlueNoseCodger

[Cricketnut]

Lots of people in the world are charged falsely, they still front up to court like Abhisit why should Suthep be any different? See what your ultimately saying is disregard the rule of law which is one of many of Thailand's problems. Yes innocent until proven guilty indeed. But what a great excuse! In any other country he would be before the courts shame Thailand and all others who do and think likewise.... Including guilty reds or not guilty reds... See there, that was simple logic hey....

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE 8.2 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Indeed, disregarding the law with utter disdain is precisely what has caused the problems in Thailand - try telling that to Yingluck and her mob of incompetents!!!

I did mention it in my post! But I don't have her Skype address.

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE 8.2 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[tingtongteesood]

In a normal society thaksins conviction would get him in prison by extraditing him here. Instead he hides without fear in another country extending his influence here.

Isnt that enough evidence for you all to see that laws for politicians are treated differently than laws for normal average citizens.

Sent from my GT-S5310 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

In most jurisdictions, Thaksin's only conviction in a criminal case (for abuse of authority in the Rachada land case) would not constitute a crime.

His crime was to add his signature, as was at the time required by Thai law, to a bid by his then wife. The court judged that he was wrong to do this because he held the position of Prime Minister and a section in the Anti-Corruption Act forbids political office holders from entering into contracts with agencies under their control. There have been questions as to whether the agency in this case (the FIDF, under the control of the Bank of Thailand) is in fact under the control of the Prime Minister, and whether countersigning a bid constitutes entering into a contract. But in most systems (and in Thailand's today) there is no requirement for married women to provide a signature of approval by their husband.

Most extradition treaties do not allow extradition for crimes which are not considered crimes in the country of exile. (A Ugandan cannot be extradited from the UK on the grounds of a conviction for sodomy, for example). If a country has no law similar to Thailand's at that time, then the act for which he was convicted does not constitute a crime in that country and extradition will not be approved.

Nor, incidentally will an extradition treaty allow extradition where the penalty is substantially different from in the country of exile. Hence request for extradition to the US are routinely denied if a conviction could result in the death penalty. It would be an interesting exercise to discover how many countries set imprisonment for an offence of this kind. My guess would be precious few.

This is not to admit that Thaksin has not committed other acts of corruption. There is prima facie evidence of many, and of a far more serious nature than the Rachada land case. The question is why the Thai judicial system has chosen NOT to prosecute for these apparently far more serious offences. One is led to suspect that any such prosecution might also involve others who are being protected by the failure to prosecute.

That is an excellent post..regardless of where your allegiance lies. Two years for signing a document...politically motivated.

One is led to suspect that any such prosecution might also involve others who are being protected by the failure to prosecute.

The army stacking live bodies face down on trucks. Everybody knows this was intentional by the army, killing Thai citizens is what they do wothout remorse. I thought officers involved in the mosque incident had been charged. Accusing Thaksin of murder here is crazy when very senior military personnel were in control of the incident. Does anybody from the army ever get convicted...of anything...ever

Actually the way the Thai Criminal Courts work (by law) is that a charge has to be acknowledged first by the accused before a case can start. The far more serious cases all await Thaksin's return which hopefully will be before the Statute of Limitation runs out.

We need a new law to get rid of statutes of limitations, they are stupid things and only serve to give rich people loopholes to abuse, do away with them. Then he will never come back ! Mwuhaahahahaha !

[djjamie]

You can't be serious.

Try postponing murder charges in any US or EU court with the reason that you are busy trying to topple a democratically elected government.

Lucky he is not in the US or the EU then heay….

Just because you can eat durian in a US or EU hotel doesn't mean you can eat it in a Thai hotel.

Your (PTP) logic dictates you can?

If he was in the US and tried to take over government offices by force he would ,now be dead or in prison, those are considered "Terrorist act" and would forcely been met force by the police and the Army! The courts does their job and try any and every one that failed to abide by the law of the land ,no matter who it represents.

Cheers

Lucky he is not in the US then heay?

Cheers

[rubl]

The charges don't show, the charges are 'pre-meditated murder' and towards private persons although both Abhisit and Suthep were in official functions (PM and Dept. PM respectively).

The prosecution will get a chance to 'show', that is if the court doesn't throw out the case because of incorrect procedures followed.

As for your links removed, well study the forum rules and if you still don't get it PM one of the mods.

It makes no difference if Abhisit was PM and Suthep deputy PM, if there is no law that lets them kill Thai people in their official capacity, then their office provides them no protection as individuals.

Pre-meditated simply means planned beforehand in a rational state of mind, and authorizing live fire in a meeting is pre-meditated.

I've read the forum rules and assume its considered inflamatory to even link videos of what happened, but perhaps that will change over time. This is recorded footage and is not censored in Thailand.

Well, that's where the prosecution will have a tough task. To prove that Abhisit/Suthep in their official functions wanted the army to kill protesters. The issuing of live rounds is a simple precaution. Who will send out unarmed the army or police to face armed militants and unknowns lobbing grenades?

As for your logic on office and private persons, well. they handled in official capacity as as private persons they would not be able to command the CRES or army. If they were private persons, the CRES is at fault to allow private persons to command them.

All this is just some more obfuscation and mudslinging, Abhisit nor Suthep killed Thai people, nor did they order the army to kill. Through their actions and commands they caused Thai people to be killed (including 16 non-red-shirts out of 92). If they are therefor guilty of murder than PM Yingluck is guilty of the deaths in the current anti-government protests. Same reasoning, no double standards here.

As for clips, Thai language only clips are discouraged, fake clips are forbidden.

BTW most of us who have been reading TVF for a year or more have seen most clips already a good dozen times. Both the real and the fake ones

These are arguments for the court and Suthep/Abhisit lawyers to make. At this stage, Suthep has avoided even facing the court at all.

I don't make the claim their actions and commands caused [unintentionally] Thai people to be killed, I believe their actions and commands intended to cause Thai people to be killed. Hence the murder charges. I believe the correct place for claims and counter claims is the court, and he needs to face his indictment.

2013-10-31

"Democrat party leader Abhist Vejjajiva and Surat Thani MP Suthep Thuagsuban today reported themselves to the Office of the Attorney-General (OAG) to formally acknowledge murder charges imposed for their role in the 2010 crackdown on red-shirt protesters."

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/abhisit-suthep-hear-formal-murder-charge-oag/