Guns suspected to be used in Kwanchai murder attempt discovered

[djjamie]

Quote

I will put it another way then.

10 people were killed and 621 wounded as of 4 days ago.

Some won't even say BUT. They simply say "Talking of "creativity" these 47 bomb attacks?"

Quote

A demagogue has a knack of changing the subject when an inconvenient truth is presented to them. A really skillful demagogue does this without the person that raised the original point even realizing the subject has been changed. The argument then is not about the overall argument presented, but more a word or in this case a number that was grabbed out of the whole text to allow the demagogue to remove himself from answering difficult questions that formed the main context of the original post. This gives them a sense of rightness whereby they have not only alleviated the need to answer the difficult truths, but also allowing them to continue on with their other traits of demagoguery which is their fallacy of moral equivalence and cunning projection and victimization. And surprise surprise examples of this are in the form of you asking me questions and wording the sentences in such a way that would make a demagogue proud.

There were not 47 attack. Well there were on the 13th of January. The number is up to about 62 now. BUT as that was only a grab out of my overall post I will not fall into a demagogues trap and start arguing about it.

The ironic thing is I preempted the replies as well and I got just what I expected.

If you care to comment on my original post which was highlighting a principle of democracy called "equal protection under the law" (which contrary to some posters on this forum who believe that "elections" are the only principle of democracy) then I look forward to some healthy debate on the subject.

I am sure I can preempt the next reply too if I get one. It will involve demonizing or picking a bit out of my second post or simply ignore all I have said and rehash the 47 number. I suspect the 3rd. That is what a demagogue would do.

Kikoman

Hey, I am the demagogue, you used that same reply against me just two days ago, What is it your one reply fits all responses to any opinion.

The topic of this thread is the possible recovery of the weapons used in the attack on Kwanchai, as a poster stated the guns were being handled in the picture of the OP. that picture was taken at the reenactment of the shooting by the suspect arrested in the case and is not the same weapon.

Please stay on topic, if you want to debate what a Democracy is, this is not the thread!

Cheers

Yes you too are a demagogue. No need to remind me though. I know full well you are because you change the subject and don't address the issue's highlighted. Facts are a demagogues and conveniently the PTP's achilles heel.

There is a criteria for my demagogue reply. Not all responses. Only replies that change the subject or pick a tiny quote from the content and turn that into the main debatable subject.

Thanks for your constructive criticism however.

Back on topic. Which admitedly goes back to my original quote that was on topic before I was demagogued! There is no equal protection under the law (principle of democracy) and all PTP associated crimes seem to be efficiently investigated while PDRC crimes go unsolved.

God bless and cheers my friend.

Edited February 15, 2014 by djjamie

[kikoman]

There seems to be a great deal of unsubstantiated supposition going on both by us (TV) and by the OP. On that basis I'll add my comments/suppositions.

The AK47 is, I suppose, not a cheap gun. If used by a terrorist it would be kept for future use unless, of course, funding for the weapon came from a person or persons with unlimited resources.

If they were military weapons they would neither have been used nor discarded. They would be too traceable. It is quite likely that the evidence of the guns is a bit of a red herring, after all, since honesty in the government is in such short supply why should we believe police forensic evidence as told by the police. As others have remarked everything seems to fall into place so conveniently in this report. Of course it could all be true, but I have a feeling of wrongness about this one.

No matter who does the forensic lab work the results would be the same, a bullet, test fire and recovered from the suspected weapon.

Must match the slug recovered at the crime scene, when placed side by side under a microscope! everything must match completely! Also the shell casing the imprint of the firing pin along with the depth of the pin striking the primer, every thing is documented.

The defense in a court case can have their own forensic lab work done!

cheers

[kikoman]

Quote

I will put it another way then.

10 people were killed and 621 wounded as of 4 days ago.

Some won't even say BUT. They simply say "Talking of "creativity" these 47 bomb attacks?"

Quote

A demagogue has a knack of changing the subject when an inconvenient truth is presented to them. A really skillful demagogue does this without the person that raised the original point even realizing the subject has been changed. The argument then is not about the overall argument presented, but more a word or in this case a number that was grabbed out of the whole text to allow the demagogue to remove himself from answering difficult questions that formed the main context of the original post. This gives them a sense of rightness whereby they have not only alleviated the need to answer the difficult truths, but also allowing them to continue on with their other traits of demagoguery which is their fallacy of moral equivalence and cunning projection and victimization. And surprise surprise examples of this are in the form of you asking me questions and wording the sentences in such a way that would make a demagogue proud.

There were not 47 attack. Well there were on the 13th of January. The number is up to about 62 now. BUT as that was only a grab out of my overall post I will not fall into a demagogues trap and start arguing about it.

The ironic thing is I preempted the replies as well and I got just what I expected.

If you care to comment on my original post which was highlighting a principle of democracy called "equal protection under the law" (which contrary to some posters on this forum who believe that "elections" are the only principle of democracy) then I look forward to some healthy debate on the subject.

I am sure I can preempt the next reply too if I get one. It will involve demonizing or picking a bit out of my second post or simply ignore all I have said and rehash the 47 number. I suspect the 3rd. That is what a demagogue would do.

Kikoman

Hey, I am the demagogue, you used that same reply against me just two days ago, What is it your one reply fits all responses to any opinion.

The topic of this thread is the possible recovery of the weapons used in the attack on Kwanchai, as a poster stated the guns were being handled in the picture of the OP. that picture was taken at the reenactment of the shooting by the suspect arrested in the case and is not the same weapon.

Please stay on topic, if you want to debate what a Democracy is, this is not the thread!

Cheers

Yes you too are a demagogue. No need to remind me though. I know full well you are because you change the subject and don't address the issue's highlighted. Facts are a demagogues and conveniently the PTP's achilles heel.

There is a criteria for my demagogue reply. Not all responses. Only replies that change the subject or pick a tiny quote from the content and turn that into the main debatable subject.

Thanks for your constructive criticism however.

Back on topic. Which admitedly goes back to my original quote that was on topic before I was demagogued! There is no equal protection under the law (principle of democracy) and all PTP associated crimes seem to be efficiently investigated while PDRC crimes go unsolved.

God bless and cheers my friend.

One must also under stand if the protesters do not allow the police to do their investigation, and publicly deny the police access to a crime scene, then they can not complain as they, interfered with the police ability to perform an adequate investigation!

One can not have it both ways, PDRC does not allow police access to a crime scene and then complain that the police do not offer equal protection to the PDRC/protestors!

Definitely not by the actions of the BIB but the actions of PDRC!

Cheers

[Dap]

so after everyone has handled the guns and put them to their shoulders to pretend they are shooting them they want to do forensic tests, how many fingerprints will they now find on them, hahahahaha, these idiots are totally hopeless but at least it will mask any reds prints so they cant be identified

fat fingers and keyboards dont mix well, you should see my nostrils

You should be laughing at your self, as you post suggest you are extremely clueless on what forensic test determine.

Each bullet has its own fingerprints, as it travel though the barrel the lands and groves imprints its finger print on the bullet, and ( at the lab. the weapon is test fired and the bullet retrieved and the marking IDed) if the markings on the bullet, matches those taken from the crime scene.

If they match that was the weapon used in the attack.

Quite simple, hey!

Cheers

Exactly. The spent cartridges that are tossed about as they are ejected also have unique microscopic imprints from the firing chamber, the extractor, and from the firing pin striking the primer.

Thanks for bringing that up I completely forgot to address the spent casing!

Shame on you

[djjamie]

Quote

I will put it another way then.

10 people were killed and 621 wounded as of 4 days ago.

Some won't even say BUT. They simply say "Talking of "creativity" these 47 bomb attacks?"

Quote

A demagogue has a knack of changing the subject when an inconvenient truth is presented to them. A really skillful demagogue does this without the person that raised the original point even realizing the subject has been changed. The argument then is not about the overall argument presented, but more a word or in this case a number that was grabbed out of the whole text to allow the demagogue to remove himself from answering difficult questions that formed the main context of the original post. This gives them a sense of rightness whereby they have not only alleviated the need to answer the difficult truths, but also allowing them to continue on with their other traits of demagoguery which is their fallacy of moral equivalence and cunning projection and victimization. And surprise surprise examples of this are in the form of you asking me questions and wording the sentences in such a way that would make a demagogue proud.

There were not 47 attack. Well there were on the 13th of January. The number is up to about 62 now. BUT as that was only a grab out of my overall post I will not fall into a demagogues trap and start arguing about it.

The ironic thing is I preempted the replies as well and I got just what I expected.

If you care to comment on my original post which was highlighting a principle of democracy called "equal protection under the law" (which contrary to some posters on this forum who believe that "elections" are the only principle of democracy) then I look forward to some healthy debate on the subject.

I am sure I can preempt the next reply too if I get one. It will involve demonizing or picking a bit out of my second post or simply ignore all I have said and rehash the 47 number. I suspect the 3rd. That is what a demagogue would do.

Kikoman

Hey, I am the demagogue, you used that same reply against me just two days ago, What is it your one reply fits all responses to any opinion.

The topic of this thread is the possible recovery of the weapons used in the attack on Kwanchai, as a poster stated the guns were being handled in the picture of the OP. that picture was taken at the reenactment of the shooting by the suspect arrested in the case and is not the same weapon.

Please stay on topic, if you want to debate what a Democracy is, this is not the thread!

Cheers

Yes you too are a demagogue. No need to remind me though. I know full well you are because you change the subject and don't address the issue's highlighted. Facts are a demagogues and conveniently the PTP's achilles heel.

There is a criteria for my demagogue reply. Not all responses. Only replies that change the subject or pick a tiny quote from the content and turn that into the main debatable subject.

Thanks for your constructive criticism however.

Back on topic. Which admitedly goes back to my original quote that was on topic before I was demagogued! There is no equal protection under the law (principle of democracy) and all PTP associated crimes seem to be efficiently investigated while PDRC crimes go unsolved.

God bless and cheers my friend.

One must also under stand if the protesters do not allow the police to do their investigation, and publicly deny the police access to a crime scene, then they can not complain as they, interfered with the police ability to perform an adequate investigation!

One can not have it both ways, PDRC does not allow police access to a crime scene and then complain that the police do not offer equal protection to the PDRC/protestors!

Definitely not by the actions of the BIB but the actions of PDRC!

Cheers

and it will finish on this note

[Muhendis]

There seems to be a great deal of unsubstantiated supposition going on both by us (TV) and by the OP. On that basis I'll add my comments/suppositions.

The AK47 is, I suppose, not a cheap gun. If used by a terrorist it would be kept for future use unless, of course, funding for the weapon came from a person or persons with unlimited resources.

If they were military weapons they would neither have been used nor discarded. They would be too traceable. It is quite likely that the evidence of the guns is a bit of a red herring, after all, since honesty in the government is in such short supply why should we believe police forensic evidence as told by the police. As others have remarked everything seems to fall into place so conveniently in this report. Of course it could all be true, but I have a feeling of wrongness about this one.

No matter who does the forensic lab work the results would be the same, a bullet, test fire and recovered from the suspected weapon.

Must match the slug recovered at the crime scene, when placed side by side under a microscope! everything must match completely! Also the shell casing the imprint of the firing pin along with the depth of the pin striking the primer, every thing is documented.

The defense in a court case can have their own forensic lab work done!

cheers

Agreed.

This is indeed what would happen in the west. There are, however, many occasions when "evidence" becomes mislaid or destroyed by "accident". This has happened before and will quite likely happen again all over the world.

[casualbiker]

There seems to be a great deal of unsubstantiated supposition going on both by us (TV) and by the OP. On that basis I'll add my comments/suppositions.

The AK47 is, I suppose, not a cheap gun. If used by a terrorist it would be kept for future use unless, of course, funding for the weapon came from a person or persons with unlimited resources.

If they were military weapons they would neither have been used nor discarded. They would be too traceable. It is quite likely that the evidence of the guns is a bit of a red herring, after all, since honesty in the government is in such short supply why should we believe police forensic evidence as told by the police. As others have remarked everything seems to fall into place so conveniently in this report. Of course it could all be true, but I have a feeling of wrongness about this one.

No matter who does the forensic lab work the results would be the same, a bullet, test fire and recovered from the suspected weapon.

Must match the slug recovered at the crime scene, when placed side by side under a microscope! everything must match completely! Also the shell casing the imprint of the firing pin along with the depth of the pin striking the primer, every thing is documented.

The defense in a court case can have their own forensic lab work done!

cheers

All true .. but the original post was reference to WHO shot the weapons not IF they are the weapons!

If indeed many people handled the weapons that will be much more difficult. No?

PS. I would imagine that they wiped the guns down.

Sent from my XT1032 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Bonno1971]

As for the firearms being handled, it does not matter in regards to identifying the suspect through fingerprints. As the story says, the firearms were fished out of a canal. The fingerprints would have been destroyed in the water. You can't even lift fingerprints from a shiny car left out in the rain. Don't be so quick to judge the police.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[kikoman]

Quote

I will put it another way then.

10 people were killed and 621 wounded as of 4 days ago.

Some won't even say BUT. They simply say "Talking of "creativity" these 47 bomb attacks?"

Quote

A demagogue has a knack of changing the subject when an inconvenient truth is presented to them. A really skillful demagogue does this without the person that raised the original point even realizing the subject has been changed. The argument then is not about the overall argument presented, but more a word or in this case a number that was grabbed out of the whole text to allow the demagogue to remove himself from answering difficult questions that formed the main context of the original post. This gives them a sense of rightness whereby they have not only alleviated the need to answer the difficult truths, but also allowing them to continue on with their other traits of demagoguery which is their fallacy of moral equivalence and cunning projection and victimization. And surprise surprise examples of this are in the form of you asking me questions and wording the sentences in such a way that would make a demagogue proud.

There were not 47 attack. Well there were on the 13th of January. The number is up to about 62 now. BUT as that was only a grab out of my overall post I will not fall into a demagogues trap and start arguing about it.

The ironic thing is I preempted the replies as well and I got just what I expected.

If you care to comment on my original post which was highlighting a principle of democracy called "equal protection under the law" (which contrary to some posters on this forum who believe that "elections" are the only principle of democracy) then I look forward to some healthy debate on the subject.

I am sure I can preempt the next reply too if I get one. It will involve demonizing or picking a bit out of my second post or simply ignore all I have said and rehash the 47 number. I suspect the 3rd. That is what a demagogue would do.

Kikoman

Hey, I am the demagogue, you used that same reply against me just two days ago, What is it your one reply fits all responses to any opinion.

The topic of this thread is the possible recovery of the weapons used in the attack on Kwanchai, as a poster stated the guns were being handled in the picture of the OP. that picture was taken at the reenactment of the shooting by the suspect arrested in the case and is not the same weapon.

Please stay on topic, if you want to debate what a Democracy is, this is not the thread!

Cheers

Yes you too are a demagogue. No need to remind me though. I know full well you are because you change the subject and don't address the issue's highlighted. Facts are a demagogues and conveniently the PTP's achilles heel.

There is a criteria for my demagogue reply. Not all responses. Only replies that change the subject or pick a tiny quote from the content and turn that into the main debatable subject.

Thanks for your constructive criticism however.

Back on topic. Which admitedly goes back to my original quote that was on topic before I was demagogued! There is no equal protection under the law (principle of democracy) and all PTP associated crimes seem to be efficiently investigated while PDRC crimes go unsolved.

God bless and cheers my friend.

I changed the subject, From the first post I responded to to the last one was the same, I asked for the two names the attacked cop shot (none of the 4 or 5 of the tag team could document "PERIOD")

I guess many people try to project there short comings on to others.

Back to the topic, the shooters needed to unload the weapons as soon as possible, being caught with them in their possession was the same as saying ,Yes I am guilty, I shot him!

God bless you also!

[MaxYakov]

Love the way the police have got the suspect to point the AK-47 at photographers during the re-enactment ceremony.

Even with no magazine, you have to assume there is one in the chamber because there sometimes is. Who would be charged with murder if he accidentally killed a photographer due to police incompetence?

The photographer, of course. For endangering his own life by getting in front of an 'unloaded' weapon (the most lethal kind of firearm).

Edited February 16, 2014 by MaxYakov

[Mackie]

If the police put in just 20% of the effort that they put into trying to get these attackers, into trying to get the attackers of PDRC protesters and the murdered victims, they would probably have about a dozen of Kwanchai's red colleagues in prison right now.

But that is not what the police are there for is it?

They are there to protect the militia and assist the wiping out of Thai citizens.

Well why should they? They did not do to good of a job 4 years when 90 people got killed so why now. And those were police and army ordered by suthep who has probably ordered these also.

How about you quit trolling and start dealing with the facts. Repeating the lie that 90 people got killed by the Army ad nauseam is tedious to say at least. It doesn't make it true, does it?

http://www.hrw.org/reports/2011/05/03/descent-chaos-0

Descent into Chaos

Thailand’s 2010 Red Shirt Protests and the Government Crackdown

May 3, 2011

This report provides the most detailed account yet of violence and human rights abuses by both sides during and after massive protests in Bangkok and other parts of Thailand in 2010. The report is based on 94 interviews with victims, witnesses, protesters, academics, journalists, lawyers, human rights defenders, parliament members, government officials, security personnel, police, and those who directly took part in various stages of the violence from both the government and the protester sides. It documents deadly attacks by government security forces on protesters in key incidents and details abuses by armed elements, known as “Black Shirts,” associated with the United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD). The report also explains the background to the political crisis that led to the protests and continues to the present.

As for guns discovered in Kwanchai's attempted murder. The story is hilarious. Of course the guns are recovered because people who used them are closely connected with the police. One thing the Thai police is good at is framing people and planting evidence. You've got to give it to them. They excel in that field.