Thai opposition protesters vow no surrender

[bobmac10]

Despite the best efforts of the Yingluck administration, even the appearance of normalcy will not be achieved. Whether the buildings are open or not, this administration is constitutionally stripped of being able to govern. Their own flexing of power has now dwindled down to just two things - the emergency decree and the police. As they have no mandate, no parliamentary quorum, no legislative power - or any feasible path towards attaining it - they have literally been stripped of the tools of democracy. All they have left are the structures of power - the building themselves. But once in them, they can't do anything - outside of trying to look busy, of course, because that is the sum total of what they are now constitutionally allowed to do. It's a hollow victory. It has no meaning. What has meaning is the fact that they are constitutionally paralyzed. What has meaning is that the courts are going ahead with the impeachment proceedings. The power was never on the streets. But power was always through the courts and the rule of law.

Er, all this is happening in your mind... sorry mate.. the actual scene is tiny little pockets of protesters here and there, while all the rest have gone home.

It just didn't get off the ground did it?

Suthep has no new tricks,.... he's run his race.

the only way the Dems are going to win power is in an election by popular vote..... a majority votes them in.

No rubbish people's council or whatever he planned.

well at least we now know you have no idea about what is happening in Thailand

it was never about the protestors

it was always about getting Yingluck to make mistakes

The solution will be in law and in the courts

something you have no understanding about

go back to you little world where life is simple

Steve, my little world is the North of Thailand where I've lived for the past 30+ years.

Bangkok and Pattaya is not Thailand.

Hanging around with expats in bars is not getting to know Thailand.

Watching the news and reading Thaivisa is not getting all the info you need to make an informed comment.

As I said, there are 55 million people living outside Bangkok.

Remember last time when Abhisit was stalling on calling an election?

Hundreds of thousands of redshirts decended on Bangkok and set fire to the place.

There would have been a lot more but the military had setup roadblocks outside the city and were preventing pickups loaded with more redshirts from entering the city.

What you don't get is that this is a Bangkok elite driven"revolution" with paid protesters.

If these idiots can't get elected at the ballot box (which is clear) then the only way they'll get in is by provoking a coup.

Which is what they've been trying to do, but it didn't work this time.

The USA has told the military to butt out.

Democracy can only work if the population make their own decision about the government at the ballot box.

No Suthep-brained "People's Council"..... it is a laughable idea.

As far as the courts go... well.. we'll see won't we? But i wouldn't hold my breath if I was you, the judiciary here is notoriously corrupt and fickle.

[gerry1011]

"Protesters Vow No Surrender" - why should they?

Suthep says they are winning, crowds getting larger every day, more people joining each week, coffers are flush with donations.

If the scoreboard says you are 15-0 up in soccer, why is there a need to say you aren't going to surrender?

Well, as long as the scoreboard is not wrong, of course.

The crowds getting larger every day you must be joking? Or have you not seen those intersections lately. They have those huge crowds of 40-50 people. And in the afternoon and evenings it goes up to a couple of hundred as most

Here is a nice picture of "the crowd getting larger"

(Maybe some rats joined to eat the leftovers of the free food) (it was reported that one rat broke a tooth after trying to bite one of the abandoned free silly whistle, but the rat is in stable condition)

Pathetic protesters. There will be some reeducation work do be done after they finally go back home

Sent from my iPhone...

[gerry1011]

The picture

Sent from my iPhone...

[ppmacready]

Despite the best efforts of the Yingluck administration, even the appearance of normalcy will not be achieved. Whether the buildings are open or not, this administration is constitutionally stripped of being able to govern. Their own flexing of power has now dwindled down to just two things - the emergency decree and the police. As they have no mandate, no parliamentary quorum, no legislative power - or any feasible path towards attaining it - they have literally been stripped of the tools of democracy. All they have left are the structures of power - the building themselves. But once in them, they can't do anything - outside of trying to look busy, of course, because that is the sum total of what they are now constitutionally allowed to do. It's a hollow victory. It has no meaning. What has meaning is the fact that they are constitutionally paralyzed. What has meaning is that the courts are going ahead with the impeachment proceedings. The power was never on the streets. But power was always through the courts and the rule of law.

Thailand will roo the day that Thaskin Shinawatra ever stepped into the lime light , what a disappointment for many, not unexpected , from those who knew a rich mans dream, was for total control.

r

Didn't the Royalist yellow shirts have a fair crack of the whip to mould Thailand's history the past 100 years?

Sending their children to learn in the west, did they not learn anything from the history lessons?

Relegating the poor to a substandard education.

The yellow shirts have never wanted a population of citizens capable of critical thinking.

They don't want educated well informed voters.

They want workers.

Now the internet is in Thailand the people are becoming self educated.

All Thais can read about there country's true history.

Why the yellow shirts educated their children abroad.

Why red shirt children were not afforded the same education.

The red shirts all ways win.

All that remains to be seen, is by how much and for how long.

The red shirts had a very substantial win in China, Vietnam Lao, Burma and Cambodia

And yet the Thai Royalist yellow shirts have paid no heed to what happened to all their neighbours, due to keeping the people so down trodden.

I have lived with the Thais for 19 years.

They are not well known for there negotiating skills or compromising.

It grieves me to say it,but long term, I see both sides slugging it out with weapons, assassinations and little compassion, for years!

I'm applying for my daughters UK passport as we speak.

[mikemac]

Sounds like you have been living in a Thai Rouge village for that entire 19 years....................

[djjamie]

Despite the best efforts of the Yingluck administration, even the appearance of normalcy will not be achieved. Whether the buildings are open or not, this administration is constitutionally stripped of being able to govern. Their own flexing of power has now dwindled down to just two things - the emergency decree and the police. As they have no mandate, no parliamentary quorum, no legislative power - or any feasible path towards attaining it - they have literally been stripped of the tools of democracy. All they have left are the structures of power - the building themselves. But once in them, they can't do anything - outside of trying to look busy, of course, because that is the sum total of what they are now constitutionally allowed to do. It's a hollow victory. It has no meaning. What has meaning is the fact that they are constitutionally paralyzed. What has meaning is that the courts are going ahead with the impeachment proceedings. The power was never on the streets. But power was always through the courts and the rule of law.

All I see from the yellow Farang's is attempts at facesaving of trying to pull a victory out of utter, total defeat. They backed the shut down of the election, and Thai's turned out and backed the Democratic process of an election.

This person states it is a hollow victory, but it was a victory for the Democratic system to continue in Thailand, and history will always denote that it was Yingluck who will be credited for that victory,

With the yellows having all the aces in their hand, the EC, The Courts, The NACC and the Army, lost the battle against PTP, badly hampered by the courts and EC, but they have the Thai people on their side.

So it was a great victory for the people of Thailand! It was only a battle many more are to follow.

Cheers for Thailand!

victory for the Democratic system to continue in Thailand

Ohh so you do know the democratic principles? Care to name them? (nooo, we already know about elections)

and we know dictators and people here who can never be elected before, now and after. only chance for power has now slipped away for last time.

no more coups now. big weekend of love was wet bank holiday weekend in march in skegness.

no interest and many people who protest now want to go home.

hope they go soon and i can sleep again in my condo with none of this crazy shouting

Didn't think you could name them.

[mikemac]

The size of the crowds is irrelevant, the damage has been done. The Shinawatra regime is in meltdown and even the Issan rice farmers have sussed them out. They won't be able to buy their way out of this debacle. Only a matter of time before Yingluck is in prison (or Dubai) and the PTP is only a horrid memory.

[Paul65]

Just thought i would put this in for you all to read.

Maybe because the only "side" of the story that many falangs read come from the anti Taksin media...as always there is two sides. Here is an interesting view from the pro Taksin media. I have no idea if the numbers quoted are correct but if so it would seem that there is good reason for so many people to support some of the programs he put into place.

BANGKOK – It has gone quiet in Bangkok, as the people who have been trying to overthrow the government tidy up the debris that litters the city after the last two weeks of demonstrations.

Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra is taking an equally low-key approach. The Thai Army has removed the barbed wire that surrounded government offices, and protesters are wandering through the prime minister’s offices and picnicking on the lawns while she runs the affairs of state from some other location in the capital. But by next week the Civil Movement for Democracy will be back in action, and the final outcome is not clear.

The main thing that distinguishes the Civil Movement for Democracy is its profound dislike for democracy. In the mass demonstrations that have shaken Thailand since Nov. 24, its supporters have been trying to remove a prime minister who was elected only two years ago — and their goal is not another election.

Supporting link added: http://www.straight.com/news/543131/gwynne-dyer-war-democracy-thailand

Edited February 16, 2014 by metisdead
Edited per fair use policy and supporting link added.

[mikemac]

....................................................................................................His record in power has not been above reproach. He was careless of human rights, particularly in his war on drug dealers (he used death squads), and his family fortune benefited to some degree from his influence on government policy. But he wasn’t really in it for the money — he was already mega-rich before he went into politics — and he knew exactly what the poor needed. To the horror of relatively wealthy Bangkok and the south, he gave it to them....................................................

Gee if it was not for his death squads and the fact that his family fortune benefited to some degree from his influence on government policy he would be a shoe in for a Nobel Prize.

(Anyone who swallows one bite of this Thaksin PR garbage has boiled rice for brains.)

[binjalin]

The size of the crowds is irrelevant, the damage has been done. The Shinawatra regime is in meltdown and even the Issan rice farmers have sussed them out. They won't be able to buy their way out of this debacle. Only a matter of time before Yingluck is in prison (or Dubai) and the PTP is only a horrid memory.

at least you made me chuckle...

actually what is happening is the elitist's are clinging onto power but the people will not accept the feudal system of oppression they always have - it's not about Yingluck it's about paradigm shift and it's unstoppable - Suthep is the ammart's last card and he's just a puppet anyway

[fullcave]

Despite the best efforts of the Yingluck administration, even the appearance of normalcy will not be achieved. Whether the buildings are open or not, this administration is constitutionally stripped of being able to govern. Their own flexing of power has now dwindled down to just two things - the emergency decree and the police. As they have no mandate, no parliamentary quorum, no legislative power - or any feasible path towards attaining it - they have literally been stripped of the tools of democracy. All they have left are the structures of power - the building themselves. But once in them, they can't do anything - outside of trying to look busy, of course, because that is the sum total of what they are now constitutionally allowed to do. It's a hollow victory. It has no meaning. What has meaning is the fact that they are constitutionally paralyzed. What has meaning is that the courts are going ahead with the impeachment proceedings. The power was never on the streets. But power was always through the courts and the rule of law.

Er, all this is happening in your mind... sorry mate.. the actual scene is tiny little pockets of protesters here and there, while all the rest have gone home.

It just didn't get off the ground did it?

Suthep has no new tricks,.... he's run his race.

the only way the Dems are going to win power is in an election by popular vote..... a majority votes them in.

No rubbish people's council or whatever he planned.

Whatever happens, things will certainly not return to normal

The Thai's I work with in Bangkok have attended all the Suthep/ speeches meetings.

I've never seen so much hate directed at TS, YS and Chalerm...If these people are anything to go by it's not going to be accepted if PT don't go.

No other option.

Feeling is the rice payment won't happen next week.

Government trying to disperse crowds before penny drops.

Yes in our office as well. We had several Suthep supporters that decided to go out for the demos during daytime with Suthep. 9 just got retrenched last week of which 3 participated in those rallies. If tourism doesn't pick up in the next 2 months, we might have to fire another 20-30 staffs. Our office is split with 60% Suthep/40% YS.

At another office I am working its 90% Suthep and 10% YS. The CEO is flying almost daily overseas as no one wants to come to Bangkok more even for a normal executive meeting. It's either HK, Singapore, Kuala Lumpur but Bkk has been completely wiped off from the map.

The 10 billion USD in rice loses is peanuts compared to what Bangkok is loosing over the past 2 months.

Suthep makes his money in Surat Thani. He would never shut down Samui but he knows his interest and financial gains is limited in Bangkok.

I hope the army or police start clearing up Bkk, starting with Asoke and in front of BMP.

Oh really, so how's tourism fairing in Sumui these days?

[airconsult]

Whatever happens, things will certainly not return to normal

The Thai's I work with in Bangkok have attended all the Suthep/ speeches meetings.

I've never seen so much hate directed at TS, YS and Chalerm...If these people are anything to go by it's not going to be accepted if PT don't go.

No other option.

Feeling is the rice payment won't happen next week.

Government trying to disperse crowds before penny drops.

Yes in our office as well. We had several Suthep supporters that decided to go out for the demos during daytime with Suthep. 9 just got retrenched last week of which 3 participated in those rallies. If tourism doesn't pick up in the next 2 months, we might have to fire another 20-30 staffs. Our office is split with 60% Suthep/40% YS.

At another office I am working its 90% Suthep and 10% YS. The CEO is flying almost daily overseas as no one wants to come to Bangkok more even for a normal executive meeting. It's either HK, Singapore, Kuala Lumpur but Bkk has been completely wiped off from the map.

The 10 billion USD in rice loses is peanuts compared to what Bangkok is loosing over the past 2 months.

Suthep makes his money in Surat Thani. He would never shut down Samui but he knows his interest and financial gains is limited in Bangkok.

I hope the army or police start clearing up Bkk, starting with Asoke and in front of BMP.

Oh really, so how's tourism fairing in Sumui these days?

And how's the rubber price? Still 97c I see instead of the 150c 12 months ago.

[Mentors]

On Thursday eve, about 150 protesters at Asoke.

[Fat Haggis]

Life is normal here in Korat, no angry rice farmers picketing agricultural banks, Bangkok is a million miles away, and the people here and the surrounding villages are getting about their daily business as they have been since I moved here 16 months ago..Tapioca farms are being harvested as well as sugar cane, last week I drove down from Krathoke to Pattaya, through Chacksensao, and never passed through any Police CP's.
Not had much chance to read TVF but the stuff I have read, man, so much bitterness between Farangs, who have not got a pot to piss in when it comes to Thailand's political future..
It's simple, don't like the current Government, pack up, and head back to the awesome lifestyle you left behind you to make your way in the LOS..NOBODY is keeping you here, I'm as sure as there's shyt in a dog, there's an abundance of faults within your own Countries Politics.. as for the UK expats, enjoy going back to a country that's been driven into recessions, and lacks immigration control measures, has a Governement that sends Buillions to India, and can't sort out UK Homeless issues!

[bobmac10]

Just thought i would put this in for you all to read.

Maybe because the only "side" of the story that many falangs read come from the anti Taksin media...as always there is two sides. Here is an interesting view from the pro Taksin media. I have no idea if the numbers quoted are correct but if so it would seem that there is good reason for so many people to support some of the programs he put into place.

BANGKOK – It has gone quiet in Bangkok, as the people who have been trying to overthrow the government tidy up the debris that litters the city after the last two weeks of demonstrations.

Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra is taking an equally low-key approach. The Thai Army has removed the barbed wire that surrounded government offices, and protesters are wandering through the prime minister’s offices and picnicking on the lawns while she runs the affairs of state from some other location in the capital. But by next week the Civil Movement for Democracy will be back in action, and the final outcome is not clear.

The main thing that distinguishes the Civil Movement for Democracy is its profound dislike for democracy. In the mass demonstrations that have shaken Thailand since Nov. 24, its supporters have been trying to remove a prime minister who was elected only two years ago — and their goal is not another election.

Supporting link added: http://www.straight.com/news/543131/gwynne-dyer-war-democracy-thailand

Thank you,

this is how I view the situation too.

I've been here for 30 + years and I've watched the Thai rural population rise from abject poverty and no political power to a burgeoning middle class, with a hunger for some say in the direction of their country.

Thaksin supplied them with the beginnings.

The previous governments more or less ignored them and just concentrated all the power and money in Bangkok.

What a lot of the posters don't see is that this "revolution" is only happening in Bangkok.

The vast majority of Thais outside of Bangkok are quite content to see Thaksin's sister work her way through the learning period, yes mistakes are made but at least she's their candidate and at the end of the day they voted for her.

Suthep is just a front man for the old money and privilege that stands to lose out if real democracy takes hold here.

[ggold]

Just thought i would put this in for you all to read.

Maybe because the only "side" of the story that many falangs read come from the anti Taksin media...as always there is two sides. Here is an interesting view from the pro Taksin media. I have no idea if the numbers quoted are correct but if so it would seem that there is good reason for so many people to support some of the programs he put into place.

BANGKOK – It has gone quiet in Bangkok, as the people who have been trying to overthrow the government tidy up the debris that litters the city after the last two weeks of demonstrations.

Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra is taking an equally low-key approach. The Thai Army has removed the barbed wire that surrounded government offices, and protesters are wandering through the prime minister’s offices and picnicking on the lawns while she runs the affairs of state from some other location in the capital. But by next week the Civil Movement for Democracy will be back in action, and the final outcome is not clear.

The main thing that distinguishes the Civil Movement for Democracy is its profound dislike for democracy. In the mass demonstrations that have shaken Thailand since Nov. 24, its supporters have been trying to remove a prime minister who was elected only two years ago — and their goal is not another election.

Supporting link added: http://www.straight.com/news/543131/gwynne-dyer-war-democracy-thailand

Thank you,

this is how I view the situation too.

I've been here for 30 + years and I've watched the Thai rural population rise from abject poverty and no political power to a burgeoning middle class, with a hunger for some say in the direction of their country.

Thaksin supplied them with the beginnings.

The previous governments more or less ignored them and just concentrated all the power and money in Bangkok.

What a lot of the posters don't see is that this "revolution" is only happening in Bangkok.

The vast majority of Thais outside of Bangkok are quite content to see Thaksin's sister work her way through the learning period, yes mistakes are made but at least she's their candidate and at the end of the day they voted for her.

Suthep is just a front man for the old money and privilege that stands to lose out if real democracy takes hold here.

The vast majority of Thais outside of Bangkok are quite content to see Thaksin's sister work her way through the learning period.

Well, she hasn't done a great job of learning other than disappearing or not staying at meetings! However what may have been re the number of votes PTP had a couple years ago. That is far from certain now, thanks to the populist policies PTP used to gain that vote! So while it is more peaceful up country, a lot of people see the reality that is PTP and are not to impressed!

[larsjohnsson]

On Thursday eve, about 150 protesters at Asoke.

So not 200000 then

Sent from my GT-I9152 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[binjalin]

Congrats, you managed to use the two words I hate the most, elitists and ammart, in the one anal comment. What would you guys down at the corner boiler-room do without those words ?

it's obvious from your comments that you are clueless as to who holds the power in Thailand - go do some research and get a modicum understanding how Thailand works a s a feudal society that has more in common with 100 years ago than in the modern era then go and chat with your beer buddies at the bar and discuss the meaning of life

[smileydude]

Despite the best efforts of the Yingluck administration, even the appearance of normalcy will not be achieved. Whether the buildings are open or not, this administration is constitutionally stripped of being able to govern. Their own flexing of power has now dwindled down to just two things - the emergency decree and the police. As they have no mandate, no parliamentary quorum, no legislative power - or any feasible path towards attaining it - they have literally been stripped of the tools of democracy. All they have left are the structures of power - the building themselves. But once in them, they can't do anything - outside of trying to look busy, of course, because that is the sum total of what they are now constitutionally allowed to do. It's a hollow victory. It has no meaning. What has meaning is the fact that they are constitutionally paralyzed. What has meaning is that the courts are going ahead with the impeachment proceedings. The power was never on the streets. But power was always through the courts and the rule of law.

All I see from the yellow Farang's is attempts at facesaving of trying to pull a victory out of utter, total defeat. They backed the shut down of the election, and Thai's turned out and backed the Democratic process of an election.

This person states it is a hollow victory, but it was a victory for the Democratic system to continue in Thailand, and history will always denote that it was Yingluck who will be credited for that victory,

With the yellows having all the aces in their hand, the EC, The Courts, The NACC and the Army, lost the battle against PTP, badly hampered by the courts and EC, but they have the Thai people on their side.

So it was a great victory for the people of Thailand! It was only a battle many more are to follow.

Cheers for Thailand!

Who exactly has the Thai people on their side?

Last I remember there are Thai people on both sides and there can be claimed no victory for the people of Thailand until both sides find common ground and settle this.

Rhetoric based solely on the so called democratic principle of voting is not a cure all.

The majority cannot rule without listening to the minority nor can the minority rule without listening to the majority.

Thailand can only win when people can find a way to get along despite their differences.

Lets start by voting in good people with conscience and ethics and not just those that make lofty promises and populist policies.

[Bluespunk]

"No surrender"

Jesus, that brings back some memories.

[JAG]

In respect of this debate, the 15 democratic principles ( no I have never heard of them before - and their proponents here are strangely reluctant to make clear just what they are) are an excuse for toppling an elected government if you don't like it. The foundation stone of any democratic state is a free and fair election. If you don't have that, or you find an excuse to ignore the result, the rest is irrelevant.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Jag, please correct me if I am getting you wrong, but are you saying that as long as a government is elected "in a free and fair election" that is all that matters ?

Even if the elected government rules in a very undemocratic manner, breaking every rule in the book to further it's gains ?

Have a look at the Shinawatra family's criminal record and tell me again how free and fair they are.

I do not agree with you about the foundation stone being a free and fair election, although that is an important factor. PTP supporters are best advised not to enter that argument, given that party's habit of open vote buying.

The list of democratic principles I read made this the most important point -

"Democracy comes from the Greek word, “demos,” meaning people. In democracies, it is the people who hold sovereign power over legislator and government."

And if another party, Lord forbid, wins a free and fair election and the PTP loses power, the redshirts will be the first ones to protest the result (if their boss pays them enough)

No I am not saying that it is all that matters. I am saying that a free and fair election is the starting point for democratic government, and without it democracy can not be said to exist.

If you do not elect your legislator and government, it is not democracy.

If you block the election, through intimidation as happened two weeks ago, I cannot see how you can be acting in the interest of democracy.

If another party were to win, and the PTP were to protest as you describe, then I would criticise them as hard as I do Suthep and his gang.

I believe, as I have said any number of times, that a governments legitimacy comes from its election, its as simple as that.

Sorry about the delay replying, lots on today!

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Emster23]

"they have no mandate, no parliamentary quorum, no legislative power - or any feasible path towards attaining it - they have literally been stripped of the tools of democracy" For libertarians and believers in theory "that which governs best, governs least", this is the cat's pajamas! Since all sides are corrupt and self serving (can we agree on that?) then if none of them have power to extend their hooks into the populace, this could work out to be a good unintended consequence.

[soalbundy]

I think you stated in an earlier post that there are '15 democratic principles' ? I've never heard of that categorisation before, despite studying politics for some years. Care to share the '15 principles' with us?

I Googled " democratic principles " and the third listing on page 1 had a list of 21 principles of democracy. I have not studied politics for even one minute and it took me all of 60 seconds to find this set of principles.

I started to read this page and this excerpt from the fifth section "Citizen Responsibilities" caught my eye -

"There is a saying in free societies: you get the government you deserve. For democracy to succeed, citizens must be active, not passive, because they know that the success or failure of the government is their responsibility, and no one else's. In turn, government officials understand that all citizens should be treated equally and that bribery has no place in a democratic government."

?????????

So bribery has no place in a democratic government ? Well, well, well. What was that infamous statement made by Thaksin regarding democracy ?

All this talk of democracy, its rather like communism, first,it doesn't work and secondly it doesn't exist, or can you name me one truly democratic country that exists today (don't say America or the UK, i will get a migraine attack) or one country that truly applied communist principals (that would be close to Christianity wouldn't it and i think even the church has given up on that.)