Thai opposition protesters vow no surrender

[soalbundy]

- Attendance falling -

This is true. Some of the protesters have already lost hope for what they are fighting for sure.

The government had endured every pressures from the opposition

The pressure cooker has only been put on the stove,the gas hasn't been lit yet

[rickirs]

Despite the best efforts of the Yingluck administration, even the appearance of normalcy will not be achieved. Whether the buildings are open or not, this administration is constitutionally stripped of being able to govern. Their own flexing of power has now dwindled down to just two things - the emergency decree and the police. As they have no mandate, no parliamentary quorum, no legislative power - or any feasible path towards attaining it - they have literally been stripped of the tools of democracy. All they have left are the structures of power - the building themselves. But once in them, they can't do anything - outside of trying to look busy, of course, because that is the sum total of what they are now constitutionally allowed to do. It's a hollow victory. It has no meaning. What has meaning is the fact that they are constitutionally paralyzed. What has meaning is that the courts are going ahead with the impeachment proceedings. The power was never on the streets. But power was always through the courts and the rule of law.

If all you say is true, why then the continued shutdown? The Democrats won and all they need to do is watch, as you claim, the PTP administration implode by itself. Why continue to expose Suthep supporters to any potential violence? Unless none of what you said is true and that's why Suthep doesn't dare "surrender" whatever power he thinks he holds.

[HD 205]

Curt1591, on 15 Feb 2014 - 13:13, said:

Don't you just want to slap them silly!?!

Exactly my feelings for Yingluck, Chalerm and the rest of the puppet government.

Slapping a woman? Tsk, tsk.

[ratcatcher]

Suthep's speaking is really funny tonight.

He's ripping YS to pieces...

Words from Suthep is nothing to YS. She is immuned

She's immune to most things except quality clothes and shopping.

[HD 205]

Suthep's speaking is really funny tonight.

He's ripping YS to pieces...

Words from Suthep is nothing to YS. She is immuned

She's immune to most things except quality clothes and shopping.

Meowwww!

[ratcatcher]

Suthep's speaking is really funny tonight.

He's ripping YS to pieces...

Words from Suthep is nothing to YS. She is immuned

She's immune to most things except quality clothes and shopping.

Meowwww!

That's exactly like the noise my cat makes.

[soalbundy]

Curt1591, on 15 Feb 2014 - 13:13, said:

Don't you just want to slap them silly!?!

Exactly my feelings for Yingluck, Chalerm and the rest of the puppet government.

I'm talking everyone, both sides. All the posturing is BS.

And, also slap people who constantly fire off the stale terms such as "puppet", "fugitive", and others, which demonstrate why nothing will ever be resolved.

This whole mess has nothing to do with corruption. It has to do with socio-economic stratification and superior attitudes.

Can we also slap very hard the people who keep using the term fascist, mad man, mad monk etc ?

This is getting really exciting, can we slap someone for no reason at all, just because we like it ?

[khunken]

Somewhat of a parallel protest going on now in Ukraine. Government supporters calling the opposition fascists - ring a bell?

Government forming militias (Cossacks & others) - ring another bell?

I've really no idea who is right there but I do know who is right here. Any government that has to rely on a puppet shoe-horned into a position she has no idea how to handle, a drunk perverter of justice in charge of a SOE which, according to those who 'know' is necessary to curtail a handful of protestors, liars left right & centre mishandling a trickle down rice subsidy scheme - all told what to do by a convicted criminal, is of course worth their weight in pyrite.

Yep, happens everywhere

Edited February 15, 2014 by khunken

[HD 205]

Somewhat of a parallel protest going on now in Ukraine. Government supporters calling the opposition fascists - ring a bell?

Government forming militias (Cossacks & others) - ring another bell?

I've really no idea who is right there but I do know who is right here. Any government that has to rely on a puppet shoe-horned into a position she has no idea how to handle, a drunk perverter of justice in charge of a SOE which, according to those who 'know' is necessary to curtail a handful of protestors, liars left right & centre mishandling a trickle down rice subsidy sceme - all told what to do by a convicted criminal.

Yep, happens everywhere

What Suthep has proposed, ie an unelected peoples council, is a form of fascism - No matter what bell you ring in Ukraine.

[Mrgk]

Despite the best efforts of the Yingluck administration, even the appearance of normalcy will not be achieved. Whether the buildings are open or not, this administration is constitutionally stripped of being able to govern. Their own flexing of power has now dwindled down to just two things - the emergency decree and the police. As they have no mandate, no parliamentary quorum, no legislative power - or any feasible path towards attaining it - they have literally been stripped of the tools of democracy. All they have left are the structures of power - the building themselves. But once in them, they can't do anything - outside of trying to look busy, of course, because that is the sum total of what they are now constitutionally allowed to do. It's a hollow victory. It has no meaning. What has meaning is the fact that they are constitutionally paralyzed. What has meaning is that the courts are going ahead with the impeachment proceedings. The power was never on the streets. But power was always through the courts and the rule of law.

It is always weirdly amusing to see the supporters of military coups and the sabotage of democratic elections bleat endlessly about the supreme importance of the "rule of law". It reveals a certain lack of self-awareness, to say the least.

[khunken]

Somewhat of a parallel protest going on now in Ukraine. Government supporters calling the opposition fascists - ring a bell?

Government forming militias (Cossacks & others) - ring another bell?

I've really no idea who is right there but I do know who is right here. Any government that has to rely on a puppet shoe-horned into a position she has no idea how to handle, a drunk perverter of justice in charge of a SOE which, according to those who 'know' is necessary to curtail a handful of protestors, liars left right & centre mishandling a trickle down rice subsidy sceme - all told what to do by a convicted criminal.

Yep, happens everywhere

What Suthep has proposed, ie an unelected peoples council, is a form of fascism - No matter what bell you ring in Ukraine.

No it's not. Using that word is an excuse for those who (if they even know it's meaning) have nothing constructive to say.

Most - apparently including yourself - haven't a clue what Suthep's proposals are. The council is temporary, to be followed by elections with possibly a referendum on the findings before the election. You might find - if you really want to know - that there are other proposals more democratic than what currently exists here now.

[NCFC]

Despite the best efforts of the Yingluck administration, even the appearance of normalcy will not be achieved. Whether the buildings are open or not, this administration is constitutionally stripped of being able to govern. Their own flexing of power has now dwindled down to just two things - the emergency decree and the police. As they have no mandate, no parliamentary quorum, no legislative power - or any feasible path towards attaining it - they have literally been stripped of the tools of democracy. All they have left are the structures of power - the building themselves. But once in them, they can't do anything - outside of trying to look busy, of course, because that is the sum total of what they are now constitutionally allowed to do. It's a hollow victory. It has no meaning. What has meaning is the fact that they are constitutionally paralyzed. What has meaning is that the courts are going ahead with the impeachment proceedings. The power was never on the streets. But power was always through the courts and the rule of law.

Er, all this is happening in your mind... sorry mate.. the actual scene is tiny little pockets of protesters here and there, while all the rest have gone home.

It just didn't get off the ground did it?

Suthep has no new tricks,.... he's run his race.

the only way the Dems are going to win power is in an election by popular vote..... a majority votes them in.

No rubbish people's council or whatever he planned.

No!!! scamper is right - these demonstrations were designed to get the house dissolved (achieved) this made them impotent and then the courts will do the rest (with the help of some of their ex-voters)!!!

Demonstrations or not, this corrupt rabble are at a dead end and there is no going back. The examiners have looked at the evidence and pretty well deemed that the rice scam and 2 trillion dollar corruption scheme are illegal, unconstitutional, or both. Add to this, the fact that Yingluck rather foolishly put herself at the helm of the rice scam and declined to go to any of the meetings and faces charges of dereliction of duty then they have burned their own bridges and are toast, in effect.

Guess what the punishment for any one of these altercations is?

Do you still think that they will be in power next time even if the demonstrators all left tomorrow??

The government started their own downfall with that fateful own goal, the amnesty bill (for Thaksin) with a huge assist from the rice scam!!

You ought to tell us a little more detail about these "examiners" who "have looked at the evidence and pretty well deemedthat the rice scam and 2 trillion dollar corruption scheme are illegal, unconstitutional, or both."

The only body that can do that is the courts and I don't recall any judgments (courts don't pretty well deem anything) saying that the rice scheme and 2 trillion dollar (I assume you're referring to the High Speed Train project) are either illegal or unconstitutional. Please post links to the court rulings so we can determine what the courts have said.

If on the other hand these so-called examiners are not the courts then we can give us much weight to their opinion (because that is all it is) as to the opinion of any Tom, Dick or Harry.

And btw the Amnesty bill was for much more than Thaksin but I'm sure you know that.

[Mrgk]

No it's not. Using that word is an excuse for those who (if they even know it's meaning) have nothing constructive to say.

Most - apparently including yourself - haven't a clue what Suthep's proposals are. The council is temporary, to be followed by elections with possibly a referendum on the findings before the election. You might find - if you really want to know - that there are other proposals more democratic than what currently exists here now.

The reason why we have few ideas as to the contents of Mr. Suthep´s "reforms" is that he himself has been reluctant to share on the issue, offering only vague generalities (with two hum-dum exceptions, I.e. elected governors in the provinces and police reform).

It is unclear* why he can not simply put his reform program to the voters, rather opting to get power through... irregular means.

*Well, not really, it´s because his proposals would most likely fail to garner political support.

[wealth]

Bangkok is not Thailand.

I know it's making the news and all, but there's another 55 million people in Thailand who live out of the city.

A lot of posters here watch the news and think there;'s a revolution happening, but it's only in Bangkok.

One needs to view this in perspective.

They don't represent the majority of Thais, by a long shot.

not quite right. I've been to several villages and there I saw even a higher participation in %age than in Bkk.

[HD 205]

Somewhat of a parallel protest going on now in Ukraine. Government supporters calling the opposition fascists - ring a bell?

Government forming militias (Cossacks & others) - ring another bell?

I've really no idea who is right there but I do know who is right here. Any government that has to rely on a puppet shoe-horned into a position she has no idea how to handle, a drunk perverter of justice in charge of a SOE which, according to those who 'know' is necessary to curtail a handful of protestors, liars left right & centre mishandling a trickle down rice subsidy sceme - all told what to do by a convicted criminal.

Yep, happens everywhere

What Suthep has proposed, ie an unelected peoples council, is a form of fascism - No matter what bell you ring in Ukraine.

No it's not. Using that word is an excuse for those who (if they even know it's meaning) have nothing constructive to say.

Most - apparently including yourself - haven't a clue what Suthep's proposals are. The council is temporary, to be followed by elections with possibly a referendum on the findings before the election. You might find - if you really want to know - that there are other proposals more democratic than what currently exists here now.

Uh, yes it is, look it up.

I don't care if it's temporary (18 months is long enough btw), it's a form of fascism.

I have seen the 5 or 6 hollow reform proposals already, there is no detail whatsoever of how they aim to achieve any of it.

It's not about corruption or reform it's about getting PTP/Y/T out, that's it.

[tx22cb]

"Protesters Vow No Surrender" - why should they?

Suthep says they are winning, crowds getting larger every day, more people joining each week, coffers are flush with donations.

If the scoreboard says you are 15-0 up in soccer, why is there a need to say you aren't going to surrender?

Well, as long as the scoreboard is not wrong, of course.

The crowds getting larger every day you must be joking? Or have you not seen those intersections lately. They have those huge crowds of 40-50 people. And in the afternoon and evenings it goes up to a couple of hundred as most

Yes, I was joking - if you are winning by miles, there is no need to shout "I vow not to surrender".

[chefshane]

Despite the best efforts of the Yingluck administration, even the appearance of normalcy will not be achieved. Whether the buildings are open or not, this administration is constitutionally stripped of being able to govern. Their own flexing of power has now dwindled down to just two things - the emergency decree and the police. As they have no mandate, no parliamentary quorum, no legislative power - or any feasible path towards attaining it - they have literally been stripped of the tools of democracy. All they have left are the structures of power - the building themselves. But once in them, they can't do anything - outside of trying to look busy, of course, because that is the sum total of what they are now constitutionally allowed to do. It's a hollow victory. It has no meaning. What has meaning is the fact that they are constitutionally paralyzed. What has meaning is that the courts are going ahead with the impeachment proceedings. The power was never on the streets. But power was always through the courts and the rule of law.

Thailand will roo the day that Thaskin Shinawatra ever stepped into the lime light , what a disappointment for many, not unexpected , from those who knew a rich mans dream, was for total control.

r

do you mean....?

Edited February 15, 2014 by chefshane

[khunken]

Somewhat of a parallel protest going on now in Ukraine. Government supporters calling the opposition fascists - ring a bell?

Government forming militias (Cossacks & others) - ring another bell?

I've really no idea who is right there but I do know who is right here. Any government that has to rely on a puppet shoe-horned into a position she has no idea how to handle, a drunk perverter of justice in charge of a SOE which, according to those who 'know' is necessary to curtail a handful of protestors, liars left right & centre mishandling a trickle down rice subsidy sceme - all told what to do by a convicted criminal.

Yep, happens everywhere

What Suthep has proposed, ie an unelected peoples council, is a form of fascism - No matter what bell you ring in Ukraine.

No it's not. Using that word is an excuse for those who (if they even know it's meaning) have nothing constructive to say.

Most - apparently including yourself - haven't a clue what Suthep's proposals are. The council is temporary, to be followed by elections with possibly a referendum on the findings before the election. You might find - if you really want to know - that there are other proposals more democratic than what currently exists here now.

Uh, yes it is, look it up.

I don't care if it's temporary (18 months is long enough btw), it's a form of fascism.

I have seen the 5 or 6 hollow reform proposals already, there is no detail whatsoever of how they aim to achieve any of it.

It's not about corruption or reform it's about getting PTP/Y/T out, that's it.

Again no it's not - you look it up. The Thaksin rule is a lot closer to fascism than anything Suthep proposes. One man who thinks of himself above the law dictating how the government should be run, appointing supporters to key roles in the police, creating a militia who are supported by the police and making truck loads of money out of his rule, including changing the law to sell one of his companies. Suthep is an amateur in comparison.

I suppose electing provincial governors and the police chief is 'hollow'? Rather points to a democratic deficiency just like those who say the elections are the be all and end all of democracy.

Suthep has spelled out in sufficient detail how his aims can be achieved. If he names names he will be accused of more 'fascism' or similar senseless term. Yes it is about getting rid of a dynasty but not necessarily the PTP if they democratise their party. Difficult for many there to get off the gravy train but there are some who would love to do it.

[JAG]

Somewhat of a parallel protest going on now in Ukraine. Government supporters calling the opposition fascists - ring a bell?

Government forming militias (Cossacks & others) - ring another bell?

I've really no idea who is right there but I do know who is right here. Any government that has to rely on a puppet shoe-horned into a position she has no idea how to handle, a drunk perverter of justice in charge of a SOE which, according to those who 'know' is necessary to curtail a handful of protestors, liars left right & centre mishandling a trickle down rice subsidy sceme - all told what to do by a convicted criminal.

Yep, happens everywhere

What Suthep has proposed, ie an unelected peoples council, is a form of fascism - No matter what bell you ring in Ukraine.

No it's not. Using that word is an excuse for those who (if they even know it's meaning) have nothing constructive to say.

Most - apparently including yourself - haven't a clue what Suthep's proposals are. The council is temporary, to be followed by elections with possibly a referendum on the findings before the election. You might find - if you really want to know - that there are other proposals more democratic than what currently exists here now.

Uh, yes it is, look it up.

I don't care if it's temporary (18 months is long enough btw), it's a form of fascism.

I have seen the 5 or 6 hollow reform proposals already, there is no detail whatsoever of how they aim to achieve any of it.

It's not about corruption or reform it's about getting PTP/Y/T out, that's it.

The only reform that Suthep, his followers and their powerful backers care about is one that gerrymanders the electoral system to ensure that Pheu Thai or any party which may succeed it can never form a government again, no matter how many votes they get.

They tried a coup, and put their people in power. The redshirts ( to use a general nickname) won the subsequent election.

They manipulated the judicial and parliamentary process to ensure that they could put their people in power. The redshirts won the subsequent election.

They are now working to ensure that the electoral system is fixed (sorry reformed) to ensure that the redshirts don't win the subsequent election.

No other reforms necessary, with the redshirts out of the picture they can continue to run the country as their fiefdom

Unfortunately for them, they have been rumbled, both by the Thai people and the international press.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[djjamie]

Despite the best efforts of the Yingluck administration, even the appearance of normalcy will not be achieved. Whether the buildings are open or not, this administration is constitutionally stripped of being able to govern. Their own flexing of power has now dwindled down to just two things - the emergency decree and the police. As they have no mandate, no parliamentary quorum, no legislative power - or any feasible path towards attaining it - they have literally been stripped of the tools of democracy. All they have left are the structures of power - the building themselves. But once in them, they can't do anything - outside of trying to look busy, of course, because that is the sum total of what they are now constitutionally allowed to do. It's a hollow victory. It has no meaning. What has meaning is the fact that they are constitutionally paralyzed. What has meaning is that the courts are going ahead with the impeachment proceedings. The power was never on the streets. But power was always through the courts and the rule of law.

All I see from the yellow Farang's is attempts at facesaving of trying to pull a victory out of utter, total defeat. They backed the shut down of the election, and Thai's turned out and backed the Democratic process of an election.

This person states it is a hollow victory, but it was a victory for the Democratic system to continue in Thailand, and history will always denote that it was Yingluck who will be credited for that victory,

With the yellows having all the aces in their hand, the EC, The Courts, The NACC and the Army, lost the battle against PTP, badly hampered by the courts and EC, but they have the Thai people on their side.

So it was a great victory for the people of Thailand! It was only a battle many more are to follow.

Cheers for Thailand!

victory for the Democratic system to continue in Thailand

Ohh so you do know the democratic principles? Care to name them? (nooo, we already know about elections)

[bkkdave1220]

Despite the best efforts of the Yingluck administration, even the appearance of normalcy will not be achieved. Whether the buildings are open or not, this administration is constitutionally stripped of being able to govern. Their own flexing of power has now dwindled down to just two things - the emergency decree and the police. As they have no mandate, no parliamentary quorum, no legislative power - or any feasible path towards attaining it - they have literally been stripped of the tools of democracy. All they have left are the structures of power - the building themselves. But once in them, they can't do anything - outside of trying to look busy, of course, because that is the sum total of what they are now constitutionally allowed to do. It's a hollow victory. It has no meaning. What has meaning is the fact that they are constitutionally paralyzed. What has meaning is that the courts are going ahead with the impeachment proceedings. The power was never on the streets. But power was always through the courts and the rule of law.

All I see from the yellow Farang's is attempts at facesaving of trying to pull a victory out of utter, total defeat. They backed the shut down of the election, and Thai's turned out and backed the Democratic process of an election.

This person states it is a hollow victory, but it was a victory for the Democratic system to continue in Thailand, and history will always denote that it was Yingluck who will be credited for that victory,

With the yellows having all the aces in their hand, the EC, The Courts, The NACC and the Army, lost the battle against PTP, badly hampered by the courts and EC, but they have the Thai people on their side.

So it was a great victory for the people of Thailand! It was only a battle many more are to follow.

Cheers for Thailand!

victory for the Democratic system to continue in Thailand

Ohh so you do know the democratic principles? Care to name them? (nooo, we already know about elections)

and we know dictators and people here who can never be elected before, now and after. only chance for power has now slipped away for last time.

no more coups now. big weekend of love was wet bank holiday weekend in march in skegness.

no interest and many people who protest now want to go home.

hope they go soon and i can sleep again in my condo with none of this crazy shouting

[manxninja]

There is only one thing left for Yongluck and the Government to do, crack down on the opposition and put them in jail for a very long time. It will prevent further illegal protests.

[tilac2]

Despite the best efforts of the Yingluck administration, even the appearance of normalcy will not be achieved. Whether the buildings are open or not, this administration is constitutionally stripped of being able to govern. Their own flexing of power has now dwindled down to just two things - the emergency decree and the police. As they have no mandate, no parliamentary quorum, no legislative power - or any feasible path towards attaining it - they have literally been stripped of the tools of democracy. All they have left are the structures of power - the building themselves. But once in them, they can't do anything - outside of trying to look busy, of course, because that is the sum total of what they are now constitutionally allowed to do. It's a hollow victory. It has no meaning. What has meaning is the fact that they are constitutionally paralyzed. What has meaning is that the courts are going ahead with the impeachment proceedings. The power was never on the streets. But power was always through the courts and the rule of law.

All I see from the yellow Farang's is attempts at facesaving of trying to pull a victory out of utter, total defeat. They backed the shut down of the election, and Thai's turned out and backed the Democratic process of an election.

This person states it is a hollow victory, but it was a victory for the Democratic system to continue in Thailand, and history will always denote that it was Yingluck who will be credited for that victory,

With the yellows having all the aces in their hand, the EC, The Courts, The NACC and the Army, lost the battle against PTP, badly hampered by the courts and EC, but they have the Thai people on their side.

So it was a great victory for the people of Thailand! It was only a battle many more are to follow.

Cheers for Thailand!

victory for the Democratic system to continue in Thailand

Ohh so you do know the democratic principles? Care to name them? (nooo, we already know about elections)

I think you stated in an earlier post that there are '15 democratic principles' ? I've never heard of that categorisation before, despite studying politics for some years. Care to share the '15 principles' with us?

[HD 205]

What Suthep has proposed, ie an unelected peoples council, is a form of fascism - No matter what bell you ring in Ukraine.

No it's not. Using that word is an excuse for those who (if they even know it's meaning) have nothing constructive to say.

Most - apparently including yourself - haven't a clue what Suthep's proposals are. The council is temporary, to be followed by elections with possibly a referendum on the findings before the election. You might find - if you really want to know - that there are other proposals more democratic than what currently exists here now.

Uh, yes it is, look it up.

I don't care if it's temporary (18 months is long enough btw), it's a form of fascism.

I have seen the 5 or 6 hollow reform proposals already, there is no detail whatsoever of how they aim to achieve any of it.

It's not about corruption or reform it's about getting PTP/Y/T out, that's it.

Again no it's not - you look it up. The Thaksin rule is a lot closer to fascism than anything Suthep proposes. One man who thinks of himself above the law dictating how the government should be run, appointing supporters to key roles in the police, creating a militia who are supported by the police and making truck loads of money out of his rule, including changing the law to sell one of his companies. Suthep is an amateur in comparison.

I suppose electing provincial governors and the police chief is 'hollow'? Rather points to a democratic deficiency just like those who say the elections are the be all and end all of democracy.

Suthep has spelled out in sufficient detail how his aims can be achieved. If he names names he will be accused of more 'fascism' or similar senseless term. Yes it is about getting rid of a dynasty but not necessarily the PTP if they democratise their party. Difficult for many there to get off the gravy train but there are some who would love to do it.

Again, yes it is.

If you think that an unelected people's council - ie a form of government that suggests to select more "qualified" people to be in charge rather than a majoritarian democracy - isn't a form of fascism, then it's you who needs to look up a bit more about the forms of fascism.

[surangw]

going by the veracity of what thais say, they will be giving up soon.

[Yunla]

I think you stated in an earlier post that there are '15 democratic principles' ? I've never heard of that categorisation before, despite studying politics for some years. Care to share the '15 principles' with us?

Strictly speaking, the core principle of democracy is "your duty to attend [public] debates" this is from the core precept of Athenian democracy, where you were not considered a true citizen if you failed to engage in debate on issues of importance. As mentioned before, our word 'idiot' comes from that era, it originally meant "one who does not engage in debate and has no opinion on issues of state." Basically if we are being literal, democracy was founded on debate and not so much on voting, the act of talking to resolve issues was of utmost importance, and more so it was the solemn duty of all citizens to engage in debate on affairs of state. This has obviously changed/been hijacked by politicians over the centuries, people who refuse to debate and live their lives in a world of auto-cues and speech-notes. Also the concept of public debate by normal citizens, the core precept of democracy, is now extremely marginalised and even extinct in many places around the world. To our collective loss.

[mikemac]

Yes. While we are it, slap also those who use words like shopping, thugs, Dubai and ear medicine.

But how would we say that when Chalerm arrived in Dubai the first thing he did was to go shopping with some thugs for ear medicine ?

All joking aside I understand what you are saying. I think anyone who cannot post a comment without mentioning elites and the Amart want taking outside and horse whipping.

[JAG]

In respect of this debate, the 15 democratic principles ( no I have never heard of them before - and their proponents here are strangely reluctant to make clear just what they are) are an excuse for toppling an elected government if you don't like it. The foundation stone of any democratic state is a free and fair election. If you don't have that, or you find an excuse to ignore the result, the rest is irrelevant.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Edited February 15, 2014 by JAG

[mikemac]

I think you stated in an earlier post that there are '15 democratic principles' ? I've never heard of that categorisation before, despite studying politics for some years. Care to share the '15 principles' with us?

I Googled " democratic principles " and the third listing on page 1 had a list of 21 principles of democracy. I have not studied politics for even one minute and it took me all of 60 seconds to find this set of principles.

I started to read this page and this excerpt from the fifth section "Citizen Responsibilities" caught my eye -

"There is a saying in free societies: you get the government you deserve. For democracy to succeed, citizens must be active, not passive, because they know that the success or failure of the government is their responsibility, and no one else's. In turn, government officials understand that all citizens should be treated equally and that bribery has no place in a democratic government."

?????????

So bribery has no place in a democratic government ? Well, well, well. What was that infamous statement made by Thaksin regarding democracy ?

[mikemac]

In respect of this debate, the 15 democratic principles ( no I have never heard of them before - and their proponents here are strangely reluctant to make clear just what they are) are an excuse for toppling an elected government if you don't like it. The foundation stone of any democratic state is a free and fair election. If you don't have that, or you find an excuse to ignore the result, the rest is irrelevant.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Jag, please correct me if I am getting you wrong, but are you saying that as long as a government is elected "in a free and fair election" that is all that matters ?

Even if the elected government rules in a very undemocratic manner, breaking every rule in the book to further it's gains ?

Have a look at the Shinawatra family's criminal record and tell me again how free and fair they are.

I do not agree with you about the foundation stone being a free and fair election, although that is an important factor. PTP supporters are best advised not to enter that argument, given that party's habit of open vote buying.

The list of democratic principles I read made this the most important point -

"Democracy comes from the Greek word, “demos,” meaning people. In democracies, it is the people who hold sovereign power over legislator and government."

And if another party, Lord forbid, wins a free and fair election and the PTP loses power, the redshirts will be the first ones to protest the result (if their boss pays them enough)