Divided Thailand faces warnings of civil war

[ikke]

"We must be ready to come to Bangkok within 24 hours for one purpose... to protect democracy," senior Red Shirt leader Nattawut Saikuar said at a press conference Tuesday.

The Reds will stage rallies over the coming weekends in the northeast as a show of strength, he added.

Protect democracy? Stage rallies. You guys weren't very democratic when you guys prevented the farmers from rallying this morning were you?

It's funny that AFP mentions 'violent incidence' conveniently ignoring the fact that thse 'violent incidences' were mostly directed at the protestors on a daily basis. The protestors have more or less been peaceful but whoever is responsible for attacking them daily is obviously not.

yes of course to 'protect democracy' you think the fascist Suthep will 'protect democracy'? where is Suthep's plans? reforms? who makes up the fascist Council? we don't know anything about his 'alternative to democracy'

only we must trust Suthep

let the people decide at an ELECTION - that's the democratic way

PS I'm against violence and will condemn it on EITHER side as should we all - good piece from AFP

I trust the 'fascist' over the red shirts false 'democracy' anytime. Reforms first then elections. Until the problems are fixed, democracy will continue to fail this country. You guys talk a lot of about elections and democracy and yet we've seen years of unrest and kleptocracy. The violence that's happening right now is what Shinawatra 'democracy' has brought us. You guys love red democracy so much. Wait till they come to Bangkok again and when there are ashes of burnt buildings again like 2010, you'll see what red democracy is about.

What a post... pfff, I do think you can't do any better as coming up with the 2010 red shirt protest, you forget one thing, that protest was against an non-elected, non-democratic government that started to shoot the non violent protesters, Now the protest are against an elected democratic government.

Reading your posts, I am sure you belong to the non-educated fascist lovers..... If this ends up in a civil war, you are as much responsible as the fascist Suthep himself .

[15Peter20]

Anyway, as an addendum to your catalog of conjecture, I proffer the following:

- the people would eventually try to vote out a Thaksin controlled government

- suppressed as you suggest, the people would fight for their democratic rights, as they are doing now

- foreign countries would place trade embargoes on the nation and also cut tourist income to pressure the government

- intervention from the unspeakables would further weaken the government's grasp

- support for tyrannical leadership among government workers and army regulars would wane

- the tyrant's system would crumble from the inside

- the cult of Thaksin would become weak and he would be deposed internally

- the UN would oversee fresh multiparty elections

- the nation will have come through an important and historical lesson, hopefully never to be repeated as in politically more developed countries.

Just like it has in all the other Dictator and Communist countries... riiiiiiight!

err...well some, kind of, yes. Anyway enough of all this thinking, let's just call it game set and match to you. Well done!

[blaze]

Anyway, as an addendum to your catalog of conjecture, I proffer the following:

- the people would eventually try to vote out a Thaksin controlled government

- suppressed as you suggest, the people would fight for their democratic rights, as they are doing now

- foreign countries would place trade embargoes on the nation and also cut tourist income to pressure the government

- intervention from the unspeakables would further weaken the government's grasp

- support for tyrannical leadership among government workers and army regulars would wane

- the tyrant's system would crumble from the inside

- the cult of Thaksin would become weak and he would be deposed internally

- the UN would oversee fresh multiparty elections

- the nation will have come through an important and historical lesson, hopefully never to be repeated as in politically more developed countries.

Just like it has in all the other Dictator and Communist countries... riiiiiiight!

What, Peter, do you mean, 'the people would ...try to vote out a Thaksin controlled government'.

the people will vote out or in-- no 'try' =about it- unless you are suggesting the supporters of the T Gov't are not people?

And from there on your conjecture breaks down.

Are you advocating a civil war waged by a minority against the electoral expression of the majority?

do you think the courts are corrupted by the ruling gov't? That there are no checks and balances to protect minority rights in Thailand at present?

Your suggestion that Yingluck is a tyrant is comical and speaks loudly to your lack of knowledge of TRUE tyrannies.

So yes- that was fun- now come down to earth and leave the comic books alone.

Edited February 25, 2014 by blaze

[15Peter20]

Anyway, as an addendum to your catalog of conjecture, I proffer the following:

- the people would eventually try to vote out a Thaksin controlled government

- suppressed as you suggest, the people would fight for their democratic rights, as they are doing now

- foreign countries would place trade embargoes on the nation and also cut tourist income to pressure the government

- intervention from the unspeakables would further weaken the government's grasp

- support for tyrannical leadership among government workers and army regulars would wane

- the tyrant's system would crumble from the inside

- the cult of Thaksin would become weak and he would be deposed internally

- the UN would oversee fresh multiparty elections

- the nation will have come through an important and historical lesson, hopefully never to be repeated as in politically more developed countries.

Just like it has in all the other Dictator and Communist countries... riiiiiiight!

What, Peter, do you mean, 'the people would ...try to vote out a Thaksin controlled government'.

the people will vote out or in-- no 'try' =about it- unless you are suggesting the supporters of the T Gov't are not people?

And from there on your conjecture breaks down.

Are you advocating a civil war waged by a minority against the electoral expression of the majority?

do you think the courts are corrupted by the ruling gov't? That there are no checks and balances to protect minority rights in Thailand at present?

Your suggestion that Yingluck is a tyrant is comical and speaks loudly to your lack of knowledge of TRUE tyrannies.

So yes- that was fun- now come down to earth and leave the comic books alone.

Ah, the pitfalls of scanning a post rather than reading fully. I was merely going along with the Munter's scenario in an effort to engage in his game of conjecture, thereby highlighting how ridiculous it is to base a firm political stand on what 'would/could' happen if this government were allowed to complete its term.

I'll let you off this time but misunderstand me again and I'm afraid you will have some fairly withering sarcasm as well as patronizing hyperbole coming your way quicktime.

[MunterHunter]

Ah, the pitfalls of scanning a post rather than reading fully. I was merely going along with the Munter's scenario in an effort to engage in his game of conjecture, thereby highlighting how ridiculous it is to base a firm political stand on what 'would/could' happen if this government were allowed to complete its term.

I'll let you off this time but misunderstand me again and I'm afraid you will have some fairly withering sarcasm as well as patronizing hyperbole coming your way quicktime.

Oooo_OOOOO, i'm fairly certain you got him on the ropes with that Threat, Peter!

[Fookhaht]

So have any of you on this board thought about what you would do if a civil war were to start ?

Do you believe you would be safe ?

Might pay to think about it.

I appreciate Robby's post. Those who think and plan for any eventuality are the least likely to be unfortunate victims of civil unrest.

I was caught at the outbreak of the Arab-Israeli war in 1973 in the Middle East, and since then have always adhered to the following precautions, also taken from the advice of other expats and journalists who have lived/worked in other unsettled regions of the world:

1. Keep passport & accompanying documents up-to-date with no overstay/visa/tax problems. Consider keeping an open-ended air ticket (where the departure/dates times can be changed) to anywhere out of the region, keeping in mind the precaution in #2.

2. Consider an overland exit point due to the fact that the country's main airports would likely be swamped with foreigners and Thais (with means) who would be taking the most obvious exit route. The airport could be overwhelmed for days or weeks.

3. Keep enough cash on hand (read that: "out of the bank") to safely get out of the country.

4. Have at least one or two transportation back-up plans to your exit destination.

5. Keep a "bug-out bag" -- a small backpack ready at all times (documents, water, essential medicines, cash, etc.)

6. Confide your plans to as few as possible; preferably only to those you trust who might be able to assist you with #2 or #4.

Hope it never comes to having to execute any of these steps, but as the poster suggested--certainly doesn't hurt to think and plan while not under the duress of a sudden emergency.

Very good tips, thanks.

So sad that it has come to this though. A few years ago, if you posted these tips, you would have been called nuts because it was just unthinkable that sh%t would get so bad. Now unfortunately, better safe then sorry. Hell I even have 20 packs of MREs and tons of mineral water stocked up just in case.

Says it all................

The rest of us are getting on with life and running our businesses etc.

Really, 20 packs ??

Well known TV posters who seem to want and support divisive confrontation in Thailand have got their MRE's and exit strategies planned......................

The rest of us will hope that civil war never happens and continue to live here with our Thai friends, families and businesses.

[blaze]

Anyway, as an addendum to your catalog of conjecture, I proffer the following:

- the people would eventually try to vote out a Thaksin controlled government

- suppressed as you suggest, the people would fight for their democratic rights, as they are doing now

- foreign countries would place trade embargoes on the nation and also cut tourist income to pressure the government

- intervention from the unspeakables would further weaken the government's grasp

- support for tyrannical leadership among government workers and army regulars would wane

- the tyrant's system would crumble from the inside

- the cult of Thaksin would become weak and he would be deposed internally

- the UN would oversee fresh multiparty elections

- the nation will have come through an important and historical lesson, hopefully never to be repeated as in politically more developed countries.

Just like it has in all the other Dictator and Communist countries... riiiiiiight!

What, Peter, do you mean, 'the people would ...try to vote out a Thaksin controlled government'.

the people will vote out or in-- no 'try' =about it- unless you are suggesting the supporters of the T Gov't are not people?

And from there on your conjecture breaks down.

Are you advocating a civil war waged by a minority against the electoral expression of the majority?

do you think the courts are corrupted by the ruling gov't? That there are no checks and balances to protect minority rights in Thailand at present?

Your suggestion that Yingluck is a tyrant is comical and speaks loudly to your lack of knowledge of TRUE tyrannies.

So yes- that was fun- now come down to earth and leave the comic books alone.

Ah, the pitfalls of scanning a post rather than reading fully. I was merely going along with the Munter's scenario in an effort to engage in his game of conjecture, thereby highlighting how ridiculous it is to base a firm political stand on what 'would/could' happen if this government were allowed to complete its term.

I'll let you off this time but misunderstand me again and I'm afraid you will have some fairly withering sarcasm as well as patronizing hyperbole coming your way quicktime.

Whoop- my apologies...

Your post- as quoted above was truncated from the original- and the 'comical' intent removed-- I didn't do that-- I see why the mods frown on quoting only parts of posts-- this is what happens.

MunterHunter- did you truncate Peter's post? and leave me with a face full of egg?

Edited February 25, 2014 by blaze

[TVGerry]

I trust the 'fascist' over the red shirts false 'democracy' anytime. Reforms first then elections. Until the problems are fixed, democracy will continue to fail this country. You guys talk a lot of about elections and democracy and yet we've seen years of unrest and kleptocracy. The violence that's happening right now is what Shinawatra 'democracy' has brought us. You guys love red democracy so much. Wait till they come to Bangkok again and when there are ashes of burnt buildings again like 2010, you'll see what red democracy is about.

What a post... pfff, I do think you can't do any better as coming up with the 2010 red shirt protest, you forget one thing, that protest was against an non-elected, non-democratic government that started to shoot the non violent protesters, Now the protest are against an elected democratic government.

Reading your posts, I am sure you belong to the non-educated fascist lovers..... If this ends up in a civil war, you are as much responsible as the fascist Suthep himself .

What a bloody joke. The red protestors in 2010 were so non violent that they murdered soldiers with grenades and then tried burning down the city. The government at that time was legal whether you thiink so or not. Reading your posts, I am sure you belong to the non-educated red thugs. If this ends up in a civil war, you are as much responsible as the kleptocrat mass murderer Thaksin himself.

[MunterHunter]

MunterHunter- did you truncate Peter's post? and leave me with a face full of egg?

I did truncate the conversation down, yep.

[ThaiOats]

"We must be ready to come to Bangkok within 24 hours for one purpose... to protect democracy," senior Red Shirt leader Nattawut Saikuar said at a press conference Tuesday.

The Reds will stage rallies over the coming weekends in the northeast as a show of strength, he added.

Protect democracy? Stage rallies. You guys weren't very democratic when you guys prevented the farmers from rallying this morning were you?

It's funny that AFP mentions 'violent incidence' conveniently ignoring the fact that thse 'violent incidences' were mostly directed at the protestors on a daily basis. The protestors have more or less been peaceful but whoever is responsible for attacking them daily is obviously not.

yes of course to 'protect democracy' you think the fascist Suthep will 'protect democracy'? where is Suthep's plans? reforms? who makes up the fascist Council? we don't know anything about his 'alternative to democracy'

only we must trust Suthep

let the people decide at an ELECTION - that's the democratic way

PS I'm against violence and will condemn it on EITHER side as should we all - good piece from AFP

I think if the Red shirts can look beyond the Shinawatras for a candidate, there might be a chance Thailand can get out of this in one piece. Thaksin is perceivably the epitome of corruption and nepotism in the eyes of the protestors - among other reasons. I don't think the protesters are protesting against democracy, they are protesting against corruption.

The Red shirts seem fine and willing to accept the legitimization of corruption through democracy. Without a foreseeable opposition, imagine what would happen when if PTP wins again? It'll be a field day for the pigs! I know corruption has existed long before Thaksin but at this point in Thai history, people are trying to prevent or minimize corruption that had plagued western democracies.

Furthermore, there is another reason why the protestors are fighting against Thaksin. The Red Shirts support for Thaksin would also support that hidden agenda. If you dont know what I'm talking about, some wikileaks might point you in the right direction.

The Red shirts should actually unite with the protesters and tramp out both Suthep and Thaksin. Both represents two different opposing forces: traditional bureaucracy vs modern democracy. Both just different methods of control and access to state coffers. The middle path needs to look beyond these two forces. It is shallow thinking to antagonize either side.

This ongoing political crisis needs to be resolved by the people, not with the current leaders. The regular citizens are all victims, be it Red or any color, and they need to unite. The turning point is here and the people have to reconcile with each other to stamp out both traditional bureaucracy and corrupted democracies.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Jingthing]

Post containing selective quoting removed.

Please do not alter other member's posts when quoting them thanks

Ellipses have always been allowed on TV. Are they still?

Have a look through the forum rules:

30) Do not modify someone else's post in your quoted reply, either with font or color changes, added emoticons, or altered wording.

To clarify that, that does not mean you aren't allowed to use SNIPPETS of quotes instead of entire quotes. That is about font changes, changing words or emphasis, etc. I suggest using ELLIPSES before and after snippets as indicated for, and also of course to NEVER create snippets that INTENTIONALLY alter meanings.

Using snippets is especially DESIRABLE if including LONG quotes and you are only specifically addressing one part of it. The snippet.

For an example of using snippets to distort meaning, when a movie reviewer writes --

This movie was the biggest crock of sheit ever made!

and the movie advert says:

This movie was the biggest ,,,!

Don't do like that!

IF I am wrong and there has been a policy change against using snippets without distorting meaning, I'd like to see an OFFICIAL ANNOUNCEMENT of that on the general forum, etc. Because in my view, that would represent a major change in the policy here.

Edited February 25, 2014 by Jingthing

[zakk9]

There are many words here, but few that make much sense. Although both sides deny that they will negotiate, we can be relatively sure that things are going on in the background. I think few if any want a military coup, but if the current development doesn't stop, and the country spins more out of control than it already is, the military doesn't really have much choice. That would be bad for both sides and bad for democracy. For day-to-day life of most people, I don't think it matters much. All political camps in this country is so full of crooks anyway, and the citizens are used to getting f**ked from any angle possible. There's a reason why people take to the street at increasingly frequent intervals. More people are getting educated and more understand that something is wrong. With the military, there's at least a minimum of law and order.

Ideally, this country would probably be best off with a broad coalition for a few years, while they figure out a new, better set of rules. The problem with that is that the greedy, old crooks will most probably manouver themselves into position for another taking. I have no solution. I fear it will be back to 2006 again. If that happens, one can only hope that some proper work is done to get everything on the table. That might not be a pleasant experience for some.

[FiftyTwo]

In a democracy you vote for people and those elected, form a government.

It doesn't work in Thailand, because the rich don't like those elected.

At the moment the rich control the army.

While the army has the final say, Thailand can't be a democracy.

Edited February 25, 2014 by FiftyTwo

[FiftyTwo]

I don't think the protesters are protesting against democracy, they are protesting against corruption.

When protesting against corruption, in the interests of credibility, best not to have a corrupt person as your spokesman.

[ikurauni]

I don't know how the army will resolve the crisis if this conflict becomes civil war. The war will be between Pro and Anti government. The red army can be aggressive with no mercy. They can kick the yellows ass easily.

Yingluck wants to stay in power because she and her brother think that they can win the battle if the red army gets involved.

Obviously, the government never say that they will use violence but it looks like this is the strategy that they might hope to use.

Thaisin might do anything to retain the positions for his puppets. But this would be the last bargaining chip for him. If he wins he might have a chance to come back, but he loses he will lose the opportunity for his return permanently. People are killing each other because of the Thaksin's personal agenda.

It is not worth fighting. Wake up Thai people.

[BookMan]

I am wrong

Is this what you mean JT?

[bigbamboo]

In a democracy you vote for people and those elected, form a government.

It doesn't work in Thailand, because the rich don't like those elected.

At the moment the rich control the army.

While the army has the final say, Thailand can't be a democracy.

That's true.

The problem Thailand has now is that there isn't a party capable of running the country in the short term. The PTP can't and the Democrats won't and so both parties need to jettison their baggage like so much rotten rice and become viable again.

So, as so often in the past, the military will have to hold the fort (sic) until the politicians come to their senses and remember they are supposed to be serving the people not helping themselves.

[ThaiOats]

I don't think the protesters are protesting against democracy, they are protesting against corruption.

When protesting against corruption, in the interests of credibility, best not to have a corrupt person as your spokesman.

That is a problem. However, if you were to put them on a balance, Thaksin is the heavier burden.

1). He's out of country. He cant be held accountable for any of his previous or future crimes.

2). His friendliness with Hun Sen. What back room deals would these two friends have? Ultra-royalist or not, one has to question the questionable business motives of one such as Thaksin.

3). His friendliness with another individual. Same problem as #2 but more sinister and detrimental in the eyes of the protestors.

4.) He represents the anti-thesis of all that was Thai. He has become another personality cult for the Reds. The same can't really be said about Suthep.

I'm sure people are aware of Suthep's corruption. You won't see masses of people holding up Suthep's portrait. He is the current leader the Anti-Thaksin campaign, and that's it. Who else can they rely on? Who would step up to the plate when politicians are threatened and killed just for being opposition?

The choices aren't there so they're stuck with him. People wont elect him, in fact, they probably want to get rid of him just as well. However you look at it, these dinosaurs know they are playing a dangerous game that doesnt incorporate any moral decisions. Its for the win, anything goes.

Any upcoming political leader in Thailand must be ready to step into dangerous game. Which why there aren't any alternatives at the moment. Abhisit might've been a good PM if he divorced himself from the elites but then again, he's there because he had their backing. Same goes for Yingluck but even if she defies her brother, she doesnt know the game at all. Anyway, the puppets need to detach themselves from their masters.

Hopefully, the future would reveal another player who can take Thailand towards success. The current batch is a failure.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Crushdepth]

I don't think the protesters are protesting against democracy, they are protesting against corruption.

When protesting against corruption, in the interests of credibility, best not to have a corrupt person as your spokesman.

When is Phuea Thai's spokesman going to start his time in the clink?

[Tokay]

So have any of you on this board thought about what you would do if a civil war were to start ?

Do you believe you would be safe ?

Might pay to think about it.

I've given it a lot of thought and we are prepared and packed for an intimidate emergency and exit of the country, so long as borders and/or airports are still open. If not, then we will be at the mercy of our embassy to get us out.

Should the fighting just stay in Bangkok, then I won't be worried. But if it escalates and turns into a nation wide issue, we're outta here. You see what happened to Burma years back, and what has happened over and over again in Africa. I'd rather not be part of that, should that be what it comes to. And there is nothing to say it won't, as Thais are VERY violent people and totally unpredictable.

[zakk9]

In a democracy you vote for people and those elected, form a government.

It doesn't work in Thailand, because the rich don't like those elected.

At the moment the rich control the army.

While the army has the final say, Thailand can't be a democracy.

Thaksin is one of the richest men in Thailand and as much a member of the old elite as the other old hacks. He's also a ruthless businessman who mixes business with politics. The biggest difference between Thaksin and the rest of the corrupt, old guard is that Thaksin is even greedier than them and that he found the key to the votes in Isan. Unfortunately for him, somebody became to greedy, and now there's no money left for his voters.

Yes, maybe the military will have to end this game, but I doubt that they are eager to do that when looking back at how they struggled to find qualified people to run the show the last time. If they do it, it's because the country doesn't have a functional leadership and because there are people out there with guns, shooting children and other innocent people.

[3NUMBAS]

"We must be ready to come to Bangkok within 24 hours for one purpose... to protect democracy," senior Red Shirt leader Nattawut Saikuar said at a press conference Tuesday.

The Reds will stage rallies over the coming weekends in the northeast as a show of strength, he added.

Protect democracy? Stage rallies. You guys weren't very democratic when you guys prevented the farmers from rallying this morning were you?

It's funny that AFP mentions 'violent incidence' conveniently ignoring the fact that thse 'violent incidences' were mostly directed at the protestors on a daily basis. The protestors have more or less been peaceful but whoever is responsible for attacking them daily is obviously not.

yes of course to 'protect democracy' you think the fascist Suthep will 'protect democracy'? where is Suthep's plans? reforms? who makes up the fascist Council? we don't know anything about his 'alternative to democracy'

only we must trust Suthep

let the people decide at an ELECTION - that's the democratic way

PS I'm against violence and will condemn it on EITHER side as should we all - good piece from AFP

I think if the Red shirts can look beyond the Shinawatras for a candidate, there might be a chance Thailand can get out of this in one piece. Thaksin is perceivably the epitome of corruption and nepotism in the eyes of the protestors - among other reasons. I don't think the protesters are protesting against democracy, they are protesting against corruption.

The Red shirts seem fine and willing to accept the legitimization of corruption through democracy. Without a foreseeable opposition, imagine what would happen when if PTP wins again? It'll be a field day for the pigs! I know corruption has existed long before Thaksin but at this point in Thai history, people are trying to prevent or minimize corruption that had plagued western democracies.

Furthermore, there is another reason why the protestors are fighting against Thaksin. The Red Shirts support for Thaksin would also support that hidden agenda. If you dont know what I'm talking about, some wikileaks might point you in the right direction.

The Red shirts should actually unite with the protesters and tramp out both Suthep and Thaksin. Both represents two different opposing forces: traditional bureaucracy vs modern democracy. Both just different methods of control and access to state coffers. The middle path needs to look beyond these two forces. It is shallow thinking to antagonize either side.

This ongoing political crisis needs to be resolved by the people, not with the current leaders. The regular citizens are all victims, be it Red or any color, and they need to unite. The turning point is here and the people have to reconcile with each other to stamp out both traditional bureaucracy and corrupted democracies.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

its a forlorn hope as if they win again with a non shin candidate they (BKK elites) will find some other excuse to get them removed by some obscure and cooked up charge .

they want power at any cost and to keep the rank and file proletariat in their lowly place living on a pittance .we know that the elites despise and hate the proletariat ,and they make that quite clear ,so its no wonder the 2 sides hate each other .

[zakk9]

"We must be ready to come to Bangkok within 24 hours for one purpose... to protect democracy," senior Red Shirt leader Nattawut Saikuar said at a press conference Tuesday.

The Reds will stage rallies over the coming weekends in the northeast as a show of strength, he added.

Protect democracy? Stage rallies. You guys weren't very democratic when you guys prevented the farmers from rallying this morning were you?

It's funny that AFP mentions 'violent incidence' conveniently ignoring the fact that thse 'violent incidences' were mostly directed at the protestors on a daily basis. The protestors have more or less been peaceful but whoever is responsible for attacking them daily is obviously not.

yes of course to 'protect democracy' you think the fascist Suthep will 'protect democracy'? where is Suthep's plans? reforms? who makes up the fascist Council? we don't know anything about his 'alternative to democracy'

only we must trust Suthep

let the people decide at an ELECTION - that's the democratic way

PS I'm against violence and will condemn it on EITHER side as should we all - good piece from AFP

I think if the Red shirts can look beyond the Shinawatras for a candidate, there might be a chance Thailand can get out of this in one piece. Thaksin is perceivably the epitome of corruption and nepotism in the eyes of the protestors - among other reasons. I don't think the protesters are protesting against democracy, they are protesting against corruption.

The Red shirts seem fine and willing to accept the legitimization of corruption through democracy. Without a foreseeable opposition, imagine what would happen when if PTP wins again? It'll be a field day for the pigs! I know corruption has existed long before Thaksin but at this point in Thai history, people are trying to prevent or minimize corruption that had plagued western democracies.

Furthermore, there is another reason why the protestors are fighting against Thaksin. The Red Shirts support for Thaksin would also support that hidden agenda. If you dont know what I'm talking about, some wikileaks might point you in the right direction.

The Red shirts should actually unite with the protesters and tramp out both Suthep and Thaksin. Both represents two different opposing forces: traditional bureaucracy vs modern democracy. Both just different methods of control and access to state coffers. The middle path needs to look beyond these two forces. It is shallow thinking to antagonize either side.

This ongoing political crisis needs to be resolved by the people, not with the current leaders. The regular citizens are all victims, be it Red or any color, and they need to unite. The turning point is here and the people have to reconcile with each other to stamp out both traditional bureaucracy and corrupted democracies.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

its a forlorn hope as if they win again with a non shin candidate they (BKK elites) will find some other excuse to get them removed by some obscure and cooked up charge .

they want power at any cost and to keep the rank and file proletariat in their lowly place living on a pittance .we know that the elites despise and hate the proletariat ,and they make that quite clear ,so its no wonder the 2 sides hate each other .

You must know the Bangkok elite very well, since you know all this.

[bigbamboo]

I don't think the protesters are protesting against democracy, they are protesting against corruption.

When protesting against corruption, in the interests of credibility, best not to have a corrupt person as your spokesman.

That is a problem. However, if you were to put them on a balance, Thaksin is the heavier burden.

1). He's out of country. He cant be held accountable for any of his previous or future crimes.

2). His friendliness with Hun Sen. What back room deals would these two friends have? Ultra-royalist or not, one has to question the questionable business motives of one such as Thaksin.

3). His friendliness with another individual. Same problem as #2 but more sinister and detrimental in the eyes of the protestors.

4.) He represents the anti-thesis of all that was Thai. He has become another personality cult for the Reds. The same can't really be said about Suthep.

I'm sure people are aware of Suthep's corruption. You won't see masses of people holding up Suthep's portrait. He is the current leader the Anti-Thaksin campaign, and that's it. Who else can they rely on? Who would step up to the plate when politicians are threatened and killed just for being opposition?

The choices aren't there so they're stuck with him. People wont elect him, in fact, they probably want to get rid of him just as well. However you look at it, these dinosaurs know they are playing a dangerous game that doesnt incorporate any moral decisions. Its for the win, anything goes.

Any upcoming political leader in Thailand must be ready to step into dangerous game. Which why there aren't any alternatives at the moment. Abhisit might've been a good PM if he divorced himself from the elites but then again, he's there because he had their backing. Same goes for Yingluck but even if she defies her brother, she doesnt know the game at all. Anyway, the puppets need to detach themselves from their masters.

Hopefully, the future would reveal another player who can take Thailand towards success. The current batch is a failure.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

The last sentence says it all. Just as the Americans had FDR and the British had Churchill Thailand needs someone to save them in their hour of need. Looking around I can't see anyone who even remotely fits the bill (well there is someone, but she can't be mentioned) but surely somewhere there is a Thai who has it about them to save the country from going to hell in a handcart, even an OTOP one.

[ThaiOats]

In a democracy you vote for people and those elected, form a government.

It doesn't work in Thailand, because the rich don't like those elected.

At the moment the rich control the army.

While the army has the final say, Thailand can't be a democracy.

You say the rich doesnt like those elected and I'm sure you know why. Do you disagree with their grievances?

More importantly, you don't have to be rich to dislike those elected. This isn't a class war per se, it's more about populism. As such, you don't have to be poor to be against the elite because there are also shades of grey in between.

As for the army, they know they cant act without the people's consent. Red Shirts would never accept a coup. But I think the Army has already chosen sides, and it's not with the protestors. Prayuth Chanocha the CIC of the Thai Army has only one year to go before retirement. I think he's going to be pragmatic about the situation.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[GeckosDiving]

"We must be ready to come to Bangkok within 24 hours for one purpose... to protect democracy," senior Red Shirt leader Nattawut Saikuar said at a press conference Tuesday.

The Reds will stage rallies over the coming weekends in the northeast as a show of strength, he added.

Protect democracy? Stage rallies. You guys weren't very democratic when you guys prevented the farmers from rallying this morning were you?

It's funny that AFP mentions 'violent incidence' conveniently ignoring the fact that thse 'violent incidences' were mostly directed at the protestors on a daily basis. The protestors have more or less been peaceful but whoever is responsible for attacking them daily is obviously not.

yes of course to 'protect democracy' you think the fascist Suthep will 'protect democracy'? where is Suthep's plans? reforms? who makes up the fascist Council? we don't know anything about his 'alternative to democracy'

only we must trust Suthep

let the people decide at an ELECTION - that's the democratic way

PS I'm against violence and will condemn it on EITHER side as should we all - good piece from AFP

I trust the 'fascist' over the red shirts false 'democracy' anytime. Reforms first then elections. Until the problems are fixed, democracy will continue to fail this country. You guys talk a lot of about elections and democracy and yet we've seen years of unrest and kleptocracy. The violence that's happening right now is what Shinawatra 'democracy' has brought us. You guys love red democracy so much. Wait till they come to Bangkok again and when there are ashes of burnt buildings again like 2010, you'll see what red democracy is about.

Saying goes, 'better the devil you know'.

Churchill; "No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time."

​Why should anyone trust Suthep & his appointed buddies? His 'people's council' proposition is preposterous & supported by fools.

---------------------------

and I just read a fools coment from the biggest bunch of fools

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Bkkbound]

This hype about the threat of the reds is meaningless, as proven in 2010, once the military decide to take action, the resistance ends, they may cause disruption and create a lot of noise, but they have no capacity to create any meaningful fighting opposition, the lack of funding once the taksin gold evaporates will reduce them to a hard core of corrupt thugs, easily dealt with.

Time to put an end to this farce and the shins out of their misery, it would be the kind thing to do.

[Fookhaht]

Post containing selective quoting removed.

Please do not alter other member's posts when quoting them thanks

Ellipses have always been allowed on TV. Are they still?

Have a look through the forum rules:

30) Do not modify someone else's post in your quoted reply, either with font or color changes, added emoticons, or altered wording.

To clarify that, that does not mean you aren't allowed to use SNIPPETS of quotes instead of entire quotes. That is about font changes, changing words or emphasis, etc. I suggest using ELLIPSES before and after snippets as indicated for, and also of course to NEVER create snippets that INTENTIONALLY alter meanings.

Using snippets is especially DESIRABLE if including LONG quotes and you are only specifically addressing one part of it. The snippet.

For an example of using snippets to distort meaning, when a movie reviewer writes --

This movie was the biggest crock of sheit ever made!

and the movie advert says:

This movie was the biggest ,,,!

Don't do like that!

IF I am wrong and there has been a policy change against using snippets without distorting meaning, I'd like to see an OFFICIAL ANNOUNCEMENT of that on the general forum, etc. Because in my view, that would represent a major change in the policy here.

The policy has changed.

[JesseFrank]

Did UDD co-leader and agricultural expert caretaker Dept. Minister of Commerce Nattawut also mention (again) "it'll be on me" ?

Since when is an acting caretaker minister allowed to lead protests ?

Edited February 25, 2014 by JesseFrank

[ThaiOats]

"We must be ready to come to Bangkok within 24 hours for one purpose... to protect democracy," senior Red Shirt leader Nattawut Saikuar said at a press conference Tuesday.

The Reds will stage rallies over the coming weekends in the northeast as a show of strength, he added.

Protect democracy? Stage rallies. You guys weren't very democratic when you guys prevented the farmers from rallying this morning were you?

It's funny that AFP mentions 'violent incidence' conveniently ignoring the fact that thse 'violent incidences' were mostly directed at the protestors on a daily basis. The protestors have more or less been peaceful but whoever is responsible for attacking them daily is obviously not.

yes of course to 'protect democracy' you think the fascist Suthep will 'protect democracy'? where is Suthep's plans? reforms? who makes up the fascist Council? we don't know anything about his 'alternative to democracy'

only we must trust Suthep

let the people decide at an ELECTION - that's the democratic way

PS I'm against violence and will condemn it on EITHER side as should we all - good piece from AFP

I think if the Red shirts can look beyond the Shinawatras for a candidate, there might be a chance Thailand can get out of this in one piece. Thaksin is perceivably the epitome of corruption and nepotism in the eyes of the protestors - among other reasons. I don't think the protesters are protesting against democracy, they are protesting against corruption.

The Red shirts seem fine and willing to accept the legitimization of corruption through democracy. Without a foreseeable opposition, imagine what would happen when if PTP wins again? It'll be a field day for the pigs! I know corruption has existed long before Thaksin but at this point in Thai history, people are trying to prevent or minimize corruption that had plagued western democracies.

Furthermore, there is another reason why the protestors are fighting against Thaksin. The Red Shirts support for Thaksin would also support that hidden agenda. If you dont know what I'm talking about, some wikileaks might point you in the right direction.

The Red shirts should actually unite with the protesters and tramp out both Suthep and Thaksin. Both represents two different opposing forces: traditional bureaucracy vs modern democracy. Both just different methods of control and access to state coffers. The middle path needs to look beyond these two forces. It is shallow thinking to antagonize either side.

This ongoing political crisis needs to be resolved by the people, not with the current leaders. The regular citizens are all victims, be it Red or any color, and they need to unite. The turning point is here and the people have to reconcile with each other to stamp out both traditional bureaucracy and corrupted democracies.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

its a forlorn hope as if they win again with a non shin candidate they (BKK elites) will find some other excuse to get them removed by some obscure and cooked up charge .

they want power at any cost and to keep the rank and file proletariat in their lowly place living on a pittance .we know that the elites despise and hate the proletariat ,and they make that quite clear ,so its no wonder the 2 sides hate each other .

I'm just curious, why did they (the elites) let Thaksin govern for almost 2 terms if they were so vehement about retaining their powers? If they were so almighty and ignorant of democracy, why let it run from 2001-2006 unhindered? People casually overlook the fact that conflicts of interest was part of Thaksin and Samak's downfall. It gave the military the ammunitions needed. If Thaksin and his proxies werent breaking the law, why would anyone dislike them as PM?

My family in Hua Hin (ya know, Dem stronghold) actually liked Thaksin for his ability to weed out drugs. He brought public scorn upon himself with his corruption. He doest need to blame others.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app