Rice farmers now reliant on 'low' market prices

[Bangmod]

Good time to invest in Thai rice, if the prices fall, the supermarkets in the West won't drop theirs….

[Ricardo]

Sure there will be 'better ways' to help the farmer, first of course those in 'power' have to discover the inclination, something that was apparently missing prior to the involvement of Thaksin....there is much criticism but some of the farmers will not easiy forget where they were a few years ago compared to where they are now

"a few years ago" they were enjoying a more-affordable more-modest price-support scheme, now they're fending off the mafia-moneylenders & wondering if/when they'll get paid, by a government which they had been told was going to help the poor !

And those same politicians, while looking anxiously over-their-shoulders for signs of pursuit by the NACC, are still hoping for seats on the next hi-speed gravy-train.

But I do agree that, more than a decade ago, Thaksin did make the votes of the poor slightly-more important than they'd previously been. That's the good part of his legacy, trashing the country's rice-growing/exporting industry being the more-recent & lesser achievement, unfortunately.

Never mind, it was only government borrowed-money, and the Peoples' Democratic Republic can repudiate those loans, or at least try !

[473geo]

Sure there will be 'better ways' to help the farmer, first of course those in 'power' have to discover the inclination, something that was apparently missing prior to the involvement of Thaksin....there is much criticism but some of the farmers will not easiy forget where they were a few years ago compared to where they are now

"a few years ago" they were enjoying a more-affordable more-modest price-support scheme, now they're fending off the mafia-moneylenders & wondering if/when they'll get paid, by a government which they had been told was going to help the poor !

And those same politicians, while looking anxiously over-their-shoulders for signs of pursuit by the NACC, are still hoping for seats on the next hi-speed gravy-train.

But I do agree that, more than a decade ago, Thaksin did make the votes of the poor slightly-more important than they'd previously been. That's the good part of his legacy, trashing the country's rice-growing/exporting industry being the more-recent & lesser achievement, unfortunately.

Never mind, it was only government borrowed-money, and the Peoples' Democratic Republic can repudiate those loans, or at least try !

A few years ago when the only way to make a profit on rice was to reap by hand, weeks of back breaking work, usually carried out by the women, with your 'more modest rice scheme' but fertiliser subsidy made sure the manufacturers continued to carry the margin of profit they felt they deserved!!

Have you worked a day in the field? ever done any hand threshing? fed the stationery threshing machines?

Difference is I know and see the humane value of a reasonable price for the end product, all many choose to see is the financial cost to the government, not the dramatic improvement in working practice for the rural population.

When you know this you appreciate some of the choices Thai women made in the past!!

[Lupatria]

Hi Thanks for the comment

I know its crap ( my names not woody) but I couldn’t be bothered writing some long winded account of another rice scam that no one seems to have mentioned, at least you read it.

I recon the miller would have made about 40000 by claiming our rice under the scheme, if this a common practice the millers are making money hand over fist and the government is getting screwed.

As far as fruit carving I tried that and I was lucky to come away with all my fingers, I made a point of not shaking the millers hand because I have problems counting up to eight.

Another scam I heard is that some farmers have ballast tanks in the trucks that they empty after dumping the rice prior to being weighed on the way out, although I can’t verify it , may be a myth.

interesting news - no offence bro

[Ricardo]

A few years ago when the only way to make a profit on rice was to reap by hand, weeks of back breaking work, usually carried out by the women, with your 'more modest rice scheme' but fertiliser subsidy made sure the manufacturers continued to carry the margin of profit they felt they deserved!!

Have you worked a day in the field? ever done any hand threshing? fed the stationery threshing machines?

Difference is I know and see the humane value of a reasonable price for the end product, all many choose to see is the financial cost to the government, not the dramatic improvement in working practice for the rural population.

When you know this you appreciate some of the choices Thai women made in the past!!

No, I have never worked in a rice-field, although I did once in my teens do stoop-labour picking runner-beans for a day. Hard work for 13 Baht a day ! It motivated me to find other work !

I've also done low-grade menial work along-the-way, in catering, building-work, cleaning, driving a truck, so I do want to see the poor get their chance., and approve of some sort of effective-support for the industry.

But when the government fails to pay the rice-farmers for their produce, and screws-up the former good-reputation of their product by letting it rot for years in a warehouse, then accuses them of being 'fake farmers' when they dare to protest, I don't see how it helps them in the long-term ?

I'd add that, apart from the people who actually grow the rice which I buy, there are also the interests of all the other consumers to be considered. Having the price of their staple-food rise, as I've seen it do, doesn't help them out of poverty either ?

[AleG]

Well Mick in the shake out the middlemen will still maintain their margin, there will be more migration to the cities, but the rural economy has grown, where rural areas have prospered farmers enthusiastically take up available alternative income opportunities created by the recent boost in the rural economy, these second jobs sit alongside the rice farm and assist in payment for machinery, secondary work necessitates the requirement to spend less time on the crops thus the production cost rises through machinery purchase or hire to free up available time, but the rice crop becomes secondary income

There will be incentives from future governments because they will not survive without supporting a now strong rural economy. However a non elected peoples council would have no worry about voters, The concern will be if the rural growth is allowed to slow, the opportunity for second jobs declines, and a future government, or peoples coucil leaves the small farmer to rot, at least PTP only have rotting rice, and angry tax payer, but a strong rural economy!

Many farmers have moved on and diversified I doubt this is known, or acknowledged, by those who are not closely involved but continue to spout on this forum

Voter loyalty? well you think the farmer is going to recall the 25% increase in the end price, and who delivered, I do Mick, especially now when the end price has plummeted, strange how many on these boards cannot even decipher human nature and the traits that lie within. I didn't notice a massive walk out by government employees refusing to their allocated wage increase as it may be considered vote buying! How long did they protest about the increase?

I think wind farming may be the next big thing..(Tvisa posters may offer valuable assistance here)...income for farmers, government subsidy for sure, opportunity for investors, big return for the country vs nuclear power.......has it all.....and farmers can grow a little subsistence crops alongside

So you got paid your pledge money? You fail to mention that your strong rural economy has just swallowed B800 billion of taxpayers money, and don't want to admit large chunks of your favourite party are likely to face jail for negligence and corruption, a change from arson and terrorism.

Your hopes that rural or government workers will forget about the crimes of this government are simply a wank (you know yourself too well and far too often).

BTW you seem to know as much about electricity generation as you do economics, and still hold out your grubby little hand for more subsidy.

Tsk tsk, JRSoul, of course 470geo didn't get any money from the rice scheme, foreigners are specifically banned from farming rice in Thailand so receiving money from the scheme would be fraud.

[473geo]

A few years ago when the only way to make a profit on rice was to reap by hand, weeks of back breaking work, usually carried out by the women, with your 'more modest rice scheme' but fertiliser subsidy made sure the manufacturers continued to carry the margin of profit they felt they deserved!!

Have you worked a day in the field? ever done any hand threshing? fed the stationery threshing machines?

Difference is I know and see the humane value of a reasonable price for the end product, all many choose to see is the financial cost to the government, not the dramatic improvement in working practice for the rural population.

When you know this you appreciate some of the choices Thai women made in the past!!

No, I have never worked in a rice-field, although I did once in my teens do stoop-labour picking runner-beans for a day. Hard work for 13 Baht a day ! It motivated me to find other work !

I've also done low-grade menial work along-the-way, in catering, building-work, cleaning, driving a truck, so I do want to see the poor get their chance., and approve of some sort of effective-support for the industry.

But when the government fails to pay the rice-farmers for their produce, and screws-up the former good-reputation of their product by letting it rot for years in a warehouse, then accuses them of being 'fake farmers' when they dare to protest, I don't see how it helps them in the long-term ?

I'd add that, apart from the people who actually grow the rice which I buy, there are also the interests of all the other consumers to be considered. Having the price of their staple-food rise, as I've seen it do, doesn't help them out of poverty either ?

I think the rise in the cost of rice will not ruin the household budget of many, especially when many of the poor who live on rice are those growing it!! The cost of fuel, yes, because this increases distribution costs thus an increase across the board, but then the democrats emptied the fuel reserve fund in their bid to carry the vote....didn't work! So you will have a mismanagement issue with the democrats regarding price increases too?

I think the long term effect of the rice subsidy is two fold, as I have pointed out above, more disposable income for a couple of years has seen more employment created outside farming, induced process change in farmimg by increased mechanical assistance.

Perhaps more effort placed on education as the farmers are exposed to the differing work ethic outside the farming communities, but again I see this happening already.

The non payment will encourage more farmers to diversify, again as pointed out above, already in progress before the non payment issue, but to hasten the increase of awareness is a by product of the scheme non payment is a powerful driver. You will note also it would appear the farmers who headed for the protest were not walking.

In short the rice scheme may have dragged the awareness of rural Thailand into the 20th century no bad thing at all, but one of the main factors of raising awareness, along with expectation, is the fact that more disposable income, has provided TV, internet, I phones, which of course creates an improved information network. The rural Thai can now question and provide conflicting opinion.

You may well claim all I mention above were on the way, and natural change was inevitable, but given the history regarding speed of change and rural development I would say there has been a quite significant move forward,however as I have suggested, one may have to be involved to appreciate some of the more subtle advancement.

Edited March 2, 2014 by 473geo

[The Deerhunter]

The rotten, spoiled, burned, missing rice stock, if this program was above board, would be a god send to the government. They would be reinbursed for the rice at their cost. Of course this would be dependent upon the government requiring storage warehouse bonding/insuranse for those they are paying to store and safeguard the rice.

I have found that the company names on the latest storage of rotten rice seem to be unknown on google. They are noted as mills, and seem to operate under names that are known to the public, but virtually no real info. There are reported to be 2900 of these storage facilities, whose task to inspect same, was deligated to the Attorney General office. (I am sure they have the personal and expertise) to handle this assignment.????? The RTP via the present caretaker Labor Minister were given additional budget of 150 million to ensure all was above board and of course the additional remote camera/monitors budget was another taxpayer expense.

The number of people involved in the corruption of this program, may make the 300 plus MP's who were caught red handed fiddling the system, look like the tip of the iceberg. There may be a real chance to clean up the corrupt political system, ban, jail, take restitution, from the lot of them and those remaining would not number enough to make a football team.

Good summery of the situation. All that is required is an independent Judicial authority with the balls to do the dirty work and the Thai people to allow it to happen because it might make them lose face! I do not see away out of this and the Thai taxpayer is the obvious fallguy. Maybe the Republic of Lanna could neatly and cleverly secede and leave the Kingdom of Thailand with that financial burden? Hmmmmmm! I don't think that is on the cards of happening but I bet that concept looks good to some viewers (of the situation.)

[jpeg]

I remember the young son of one of my friends asking what he would get for his birthday

The reply "You can eat rice"

Kind of brough it home at the time, and makes your comment look rather glib

Oh please. The only Thais who remember, let alone celebrate 'birthdays' are the 'obscenely wealthy' and bar girls.

[monkeycountry]

hows your master in Dubai now !...still the demigod you all made him LOL

Probably one of the nastiest posts I have seen for a while (That was not mine)

Rice farmers are not the most educated people in the world and many will go buy whats said by the "educated" on TV, radio and other media.

Have you ever been kicked in the guts when your down and your family is suffering?

When rice farmers lose money on the rice scam it is not their own fault as they are uneducated and simply believe anything the educated on TV tells them.

When rice farmers defend their right to vote, they are just as intelligent, wise and responsible as everyone else in the country.

So basically they are smart enough to vote, but not smart enough to take responsibility for the consequences of that vote?

Sounds very Thai to me. Wanting everything except responsibility :-)

Edited March 2, 2014 by monkeycountry

[monkeycountry]

A few years ago when the only way to make a profit on rice was to reap by hand, weeks of back breaking work, usually carried out by the women, with your 'more modest rice scheme' but fertiliser subsidy made sure the manufacturers continued to carry the margin of profit they felt they deserved!!

Have you worked a day in the field? ever done any hand threshing? fed the stationery threshing machines?

Difference is I know and see the humane value of a reasonable price for the end product, all many choose to see is the financial cost to the government, not the dramatic improvement in working practice for the rural population.

When you know this you appreciate some of the choices Thai women made in the past!!

No, I have never worked in a rice-field, although I did once in my teens do stoop-labour picking runner-beans for a day. Hard work for 13 Baht a day ! It motivated me to find other work !

I've also done low-grade menial work along-the-way, in catering, building-work, cleaning, driving a truck, so I do want to see the poor get their chance., and approve of some sort of effective-support for the industry.

But when the government fails to pay the rice-farmers for their produce, and screws-up the former good-reputation of their product by letting it rot for years in a warehouse, then accuses them of being 'fake farmers' when they dare to protest, I don't see how it helps them in the long-term ?

I'd add that, apart from the people who actually grow the rice which I buy, there are also the interests of all the other consumers to be considered. Having the price of their staple-food rise, as I've seen it do, doesn't help them out of poverty either ?

I think the rise in the cost of rice will not ruin the household budget of many, especially when many of the poor who live on rice are those growing it!! The cost of fuel, yes, because this increases distribution costs thus an increase across the board, but then the democrats emptied the fuel reserve fund in their bid to carry the vote....didn't work! So you will have a mismanagement issue with the democrats regarding price increases too?

I think the long term effect of the rice subsidy is two fold, as I have pointed out above, more disposable income for a couple of years has seen more employment created outside farming, induced process change in farmimg by increased mechanical assistance.

Perhaps more effort placed on education as the farmers are exposed to the differing work ethic outside the farming communities, but again I see this happening already.

The non payment will encourage more farmers to diversify, again as pointed out above, already in progress before the non payment issue, but to hasten the increase of awareness is a by product of the scheme non payment is a powerful driver. You will note also it would appear the farmers who headed for the protest were not walking.

In short the rice scheme may have dragged the awareness of rural Thailand into the 20th century no bad thing at all, but one of the main factors of raising awareness, along with expectation, is the fact that more disposable income, has provided TV, internet, I phones, which of course creates an improved information network. The rural Thai can now question and provide conflicting opinion.

You may well claim all I mention above were on the way, and natural change was inevitable, but given the history regarding speed of change and rural development I would say there has been a quite significant move forward,however as I have suggested, one may have to be involved to appreciate some of the more subtle advancement.

Ahh yes, emptying the fuel subsidy fund had absolutely nothing to do with the very high global fuel prices at the time :-)

One of the many problems with red shirts, farmers and their supporters here on TV is that they have absolutely no idea that there is a world outside Thailand, and therefore do not understand that this world sometimes influences what happens in Thailand :-)

[trogers]

hows your master in Dubai now !...still the demigod you all made him LOL

Probably one of the nastiest posts I have seen for a while (That was not mine)

Rice farmers are not the most educated people in the world and many will go buy whats said by the "educated" on TV, radio and other media.

Have you ever been kicked in the guts when your down and your family is suffering?

When rice farmers lose money on the rice scam it is not their own fault as they are uneducated and simply believe anything the educated on TV tells them.

When rice farmers defend their right to vote, they are just as intelligent, wise and responsible as everyone else in the country.

So basically they are smart enough to vote, but not smart enough to take responsibility for the consequences of that vote?

Sounds very Thai to me. Wanting everything except responsibility :-)

Correlating to the high number of cases of unwed pregnancies...

[FangFerang]

I remember the young son of one of my friends asking what he would get for his birthday

The reply "You can eat rice"

Kind of brough it home at the time, and makes your comment look rather glib

Oh please. The only Thais who remember, let alone celebrate 'birthdays' are the 'obscenely wealthy' and bar girls.

Every Thai I know, old/young/poor/middle class/wealthy celebrates their birthday......

[allan michaud]

Another issue is of course the land owners and fertiliser/pesticide dealers, who all upped their prices when the govt announced the scam. I somehow doubt they will want to drop the prices back to what they were when it ends. The farmers have been well and truly shafted from every possible angle by their dear leader in Dubai.

[Neurath]

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Moreover, the price of rice would continue to decrease as the government now holds more than 18 million tonnes in its stockpiles, he claimed.

Good work Yingluck! Has your brother given you any ideas as to how the country gets out of this mess?

18 million tonnes: almost 3 years of Thailand's total rice exports. Given that Thailand is the world's 3rd largest exporter, trying to sell that mountain in a hurry will probably push global prices down. Rice farmers everywhere, not just in Thailand, will be rooted if they get market prices. There are no good solutions to this mess - just catastrophic and bad ones.