Getting married in UK/Schengen area on tourist visa

[Pete Beale]

My Girlfriend has a UK general visitor visa and a Schengen visa for her visit to UK and Germany starting next month. Would it be possible for us to marry in UK during this visit ? If not possible to marry in the UK is it possible to marry anywhere in the Schengen area ? She will return to Thailand at the end of the trip.

[ubonjoe]

For the UK the answer is no. You need at least a fiance visa to do it. This webpage also lists a marriage visa but that is when both are non UK or EU citizens. https://www.gov.uk/marriages-civil-partnerships/giving-notice-at-your-local-register-office

[Tony M]

Not quite true, ubonjoe. A fiance(e) visa is a settlement visa, and the holder can apply for further leave to remain after the marriage. There is also a "marriage visitor " visa, whereby the holder can marry in the UK, but must leave at the end of the visit ( ie. cannot stay more than 6 months).

In theory, you are right that a visa holder cannot marry on a general visit visa, but in reality they can ( and do). The immigration rules say that a visit visa applicant must not intend to marry while in the UK, so the operative word is "intend". Many people marry in the UK while on general visit visas, their argument ( in the event of any future visa application) being that there was no intention to marry when they applied for the visa, but they decided to marry while the holder was actually in the UK on the visit.

[ubonjoe]

I was just going by what I found in a search for info. This webpage I posted a link to.

Foreign nationals

You and your partner must go to a ‘designated’ register office if either of you aren’t from the European Economic Area (EEA) or Switzerland, and are subject to immigration control.

The process is different in Scotland and Northern Ireland.

You’ll need to apply for one of the following if you aren’t already in the UK:

• a visa to come here as a fiancé(e) or proposed civil partner if your partner is a British citizen or settled in the UK and you intend to remain in the UK
• an EEA family permit if you’re from outside the EEA and the person you’re marrying is from the EEA or Switzerland but not the UK
• a Marriage Visitor visa if you and your partner are from outside theEEA or Switzerland, you want to come to the UK to get married or register a civil partnership, and you and your partner intend to leave the country within 6 months

[Tony M]

I was just going by what I found in a search for info. This webpage I posted a link to.

Foreign nationals

You and your partner must go to a ‘designated’ register office if either of you aren’t from the European Economic Area (EEA) or Switzerland, and are subject to immigration control.

The process is different in Scotland and Northern Ireland.

You’ll need to apply for one of the following if you aren’t already in the UK:

• a visa to come here as a fiancé(e) or proposed civil partner if your partner is a British citizen or settled in the UK and you intend to remain in the UK
• an EEA family permit if you’re from outside the EEA and the person you’re marrying is from the EEA or Switzerland but not the UK
• a Marriage Visitor visa if you and your partner are from outside theEEA or Switzerland, you want to come to the UK to get married or register a civil partnership, and you and your partner intend to leave the country within 6 months

Understood, and no criticism intended. It's a "grey" area, of course. The immigration rules allow it to be a grey area though, but whether that is intentional or not, I don't know.

[ubonjoe]

I guess they would just need go to a registrars office and try.

[MarkGM1957]

Get married in Denmark. Make an appointment at the town hall, Stay 3 or 4 nights to get resident status, say your vows and go home with a multi language certificate.

It's easy. Denmark is well known for this. You don't need EU passports. Look on the web... We married in Tonder just over the German border. No issues getting it recognised

[slsmith38]

Not sure how the rules have changed since but I married my Thai girlfriend back in 1992 in the UK with no problems whatsoever. We had not planned to get married beforehand but when we enquired at the registry office in Leeds they told us she just needed to be in the country for at least 2 weeks prior to the wedding. She was on a single entry visit visa at the time. Only paperwork she needed was her passport. We booked a date on the spot to be married at the registry office a few weeks later and the rest is history.

[laolover88]

Not sure how the rules have changed since but I married my Thai girlfriend back in 1992 in the UK with no problems whatsoever. We had not planned to get married beforehand but when we enquired at the registry office in Leeds they told us she just needed to be in the country for at least 2 weeks prior to the wedding. She was on a single entry visit visa at the time. Only paperwork she needed was her passport. We booked a date on the spot to be married at the registry office a few weeks later and the rest is history.

I think it HAS changed. Anyone on TV tried to do it without fiance/marriage visa, recently

[rhodie]

Not sure how the rules have changed since but I married my Thai girlfriend back in 1992 in the UK with no problems whatsoever. We had not planned to get married beforehand but when we enquired at the registry office in Leeds they told us she just needed to be in the country for at least 2 weeks prior to the wedding. She was on a single entry visit visa at the time. Only paperwork she needed was her passport. We booked a date on the spot to be married at the registry office a few weeks later and the rest is history.

The history would be very interesting if you would be kind enough to share. Good or bad, always interesting to know about long term real stories.

[theoldgit]

Off topic post removed.

[finnomick]

Not sure how the rules have changed since but I married my Thai girlfriend back in 1992 in the UK with no problems whatsoever. We had not planned to get married beforehand but when we enquired at the registry office in Leeds they told us she just needed to be in the country for at least 2 weeks prior to the wedding. She was on a single entry visit visa at the time. Only paperwork she needed was her passport. We booked a date on the spot to be married at the registry office a few weeks later and the rest is history.

The history would be very interesting if you would be kind enough to share. Good or bad, always interesting to know about long term real stories.

Mate of mine took his then girlfriend to the UK, she was on a 6 month visitor visa. That was about 5 years ago. They enquired whilst applying for her visa if they could extend her visa whilst in the UK and was told ' only if you get married while you are there '. This was already their plan so they duly got wed at a registry office, then went wherever and got her 6 month visa extended to 2 years. At the end of the 2 years, they got her another 2 year visa whilst still in the UK., and now she has extended a third time but has been told this time that she no longer needs renewing her visa as the current one is indefinite. No doubt, other TV contributors will have different tales, but this is what they have done. Incidentally, she now has a N.I. number, works, pays tax etc., etc.

[howerde]

You can get married in uk on visit visa, but would have to return to thailand to apply for the correct visa you can not convert a visit visa or apply for a spouse visa while in uk, this was true 8 months ago, so unless something has changed. recently, one issue is entering on a visit visa is just that 'visit', if immigration were to find out any intention to marry they might refuse entry to uk.as they would expect her to come here on fiance visa

[crazydrummerpauly]

Not sure how the rules have changed since but I married my Thai girlfriend back in 1992 in the UK with no problems whatsoever. We had not planned to get married beforehand but when we enquired at the registry office in Leeds they told us she just needed to be in the country for at least 2 weeks prior to the wedding. She was on a single entry visit visa at the time. Only paperwork she needed was her passport. We booked a date on the spot to be married at the registry office a few weeks later and the rest is history.

The history would be very interesting if you would be kind enough to share. Good or bad, always interesting to know about long term real stories.

Mate of mine took his then girlfriend to the UK, she was on a 6 month visitor visa. That was about 5 years ago. They enquired whilst applying for her visa if they could extend her visa whilst in the UK and was told ' only if you get married while you are there '. This was already their plan so they duly got wed at a registry office, then went wherever and got her 6 month visa extended to 2 years. At the end of the 2 years, they got her another 2 year visa whilst still in the UK., and now she has extended a third time but has been told this time that she no longer needs renewing her visa as the current one is indefinite. No doubt, other TV contributors will have different tales, but this is what they have done. Incidentally, she now has a N.I. number, works, pays tax etc., etc.

It is not just about having 'different tales' but what the rules are. Please anyone out there thinking of copying this - don't take this as a description of what anyone could do now - especially after the draconian changes of July 2012. Your mate was lucky with his timing, that's all - now he wouldn't get past first base, let alone to full settlement, or ILR (indefinite leave to remain). Nice to read about the easy days though !!

[Pete Beale]

Get married in Denmark. Make an appointment at the town hall, Stay 3 or 4 nights to get resident status, say your vows and go home with a multi language certificate.

It's easy. Denmark is well known for this. You don't need EU passports. Look on the web... We married in Tonder just over the German border. No issues getting it recognised

Did you do everything yourselves or use a company to organise the wedding in Denmark.

[MarkGM1957]

Did it all myself. It is so easy. You need passports and English translation of the documentation to show that your partner is not already married. The web is full of information but the local Danish town council (komun) will guide you. Give some a call. For guidance i found a site www.denmark.angloinfo.com family section which lists some kommun which specialise in such quick and easy weddings.

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[bobrussell]

It used to be a requirement to get a Certificate of Approval to Marry from the Home Office if a partner came in to the UK on a 'non-marriage' visa. A marriage visit visa was required to allow a couple to marry. A marriage visit visa allowed the marriage but the applicant had to return to the home country. The other type of visa was a settlement one and this could (can) be converted in the UK to a longer term settlement visa after marriage.

The marriage visit visa still exists but the Certificate of Approval does not!

As has been stated above this is still the correct visa to apply for if you intend to marry in the UK. If it just 'happens' on a general visit visa then it can as long as the Registrar is satisfied that the marriage is above board and not of convenience.

If you have planned the wedding in advance and just used a general visit visa to gain entry to the UK, I suppose there is the risk of being accused of misrepresentation of the purpose of the visit visa but how seriously this would be viewed I don't know! At least in theory it might be a black mark for future visa applications.

No idea of the what happens in other European countries but my advice would be follow the rules!

Edited March 10, 2014 by bobrussell

[Kudel]

Get married in Denmark. Make an appointment at the town hall, Stay 3 or 4 nights to get resident status, say your vows and go home with a multi language certificate.

It's easy. Denmark is well known for this. You don't need EU passports. Look on the web... We married in Tonder just over the German border. No issues getting it recognised

Did you do everything yourselves or use a company to organise the wedding in Denmark.

when my now ex wife came to Belgium on a tourist schengen visa ,she was allowed entry to Belgium with one transit during travel and was not allowed to even hop over the border with me for shopping to france or to holland.

She has a tourist visa for germany and will not be allowed entrance to denmark and one is not allowed to marry on schengen tourist visa end of story.

[7by7]

Whilst I don't know, and so wont comment upon, the rules for marrying whilst in the Schengen area as a tourist; I don't understand why your ex wife was not allowed to use her Belgian and German issued Schengen visas to travel to other Schengen states.

Once issued, a Schengen visa is valid for all Schengen states.

As for marrying in the UK whilst there as a visitor, Tony M in post 3 sums up the current situation, as ever, perfectly.

[MarkGM1957]

@Kudel. There are no border controls and there is free access by tourists to all Shengen states. When were you last there? 25 years ago?

You can use a Tourist Visa from any Shengen country to get married in Denmark. Of course you can call or mail a Danish Kommun as I said. They are very helpful and will make sure the paperwork you have is in order before you travel..

Once married with the multlingual Certificate you are married. Whatever.......

So no problem for Pete Beale and his beloved to go there and hitch up and avoid the red tape of other European countries.

End of story, Kudel.


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Edited March 11, 2014 by MarkGM1957

[Donutz]

Get married in Denmark. Make an appointment at the town hall, Stay 3 or 4 nights to get resident status, say your vows and go home with a multi language certificate.

It's easy. Denmark is well known for this. You don't need EU passports. Look on the web... We married in Tonder just over the German border. No issues getting it recognised

Did you do everything yourselves or use a company to organise the wedding in Denmark.

when my now ex wife came to Belgium on a tourist schengen visa ,she was allowed entry to Belgium with one transit during travel and was not allowed to even hop over the border with me for shopping to france or to holland.

She has a tourist visa for germany and will not be allowed entrance to denmark and one is not allowed to marry on schengen tourist visa end of story.

You can get married on a Schengen C " tourist / temporary stay" or D (entry visa, settlement visa). The most easiest being in Denmark though it's also possible in other countries. Dutch inhabitants can easily marry their partner while she/he is here on a C visa, though you must go through a review (to see of it's a genuine marriage and not a scam marriage or marriage of conviencance), this does take some time so usually uou need atleast 2 months or the full 90 days to complete the whole process.

@ 7by7: Not entirely correct. A visa can be issued with a limitation, rendering it only valid for the countries explicitly printed on it. A C visa can be issues as " only valid in BE, NL, LUX" for instance. Such limitations are rarely issued though as far as I know. Obviously an A visa (transit) may also only be valid for a single Schengen country (I'm not sure about the details of type A visa).

[7by7]

Thanks for the update, Donutz.

Presumably the issuing state must have a good reason for imposing such a limitation?

[Kudel]

@Kudel. There are no border controls and there is free access by tourists to all Shengen states. When were you last there? 25 years ago?

You can use a Tourist Visa from any Shengen country to get married in Denmark. Of course you can call or mail a Danish Kommun as I said. They are very helpful and will make sure the paperwork you have is in order before you travel..

Once married with the multlingual Certificate you are married. Whatever.......

So no problem for Pete Beale and his beloved to go there and hitch up and avoid the red tape of other European countries.

End of story, Kudel.

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No 2006 ,and not allowed to marry on a schengen tourist visa with one entry wich are issued by most embassy's now,she will not be allowed entry to denmark with her visa for germany.

Free travel is only for citizens who live and work in the eu and have the right paperwork to do so.end of story remember the story about a thai mother and her daughter who got kicked out of denmark a while a go.

One can not mary on tourist visas in the EU end of story.

[7by7]

The UK is in the EU, though not the Schengen Area, and, as already stated, visitors (e.g. tourists) can get married there.

As for Denmark: FAQ everything you need to know about marriage in Denmark

Is the marriage valid worldwide?

Absolutely. However, we strongly believe that international couples really ought to have their marriage certificate “apostilled”. An apostille is a validation by the Danish Foreign Ministry in accordance with the 1961 Hague Apostille Convention which gives an extra level of international acceptability. We are so convinced that our couples should have this done that we automatically include this service in all our packages – fees included. It takes up to 2 weeks.

Can anyone get married in Denmark?

We have had couples from all over the world, including some who have had lost documents or other problems. So almost anyone can get married here. The only country which has a problem (and that’s with any marriage overseas, not Denmark in particular) is Laos. Other than that the only real exceptions are asylum-seekers and refugees, who cannot get married here.

(Note this is a commercial site I have used for information; I am not endorsing it's services in any way.)

As previously said; a Schengen visa is usually valid for all Schengen states; though it appears from what Donutz says that in rare circumstances this may be limited.

Edited March 11, 2014 by 7by7

[MarkGM1957]

The main advantage in Denmark is that you need to stay only 3 nights. Then you can marry. UK takes some weeks and the paperwork is a bit more of a drag. Dont worry about the visa its a non issue. Just ask the Danes at the local Kommun.

The Thai mother daughter issue was regarding permanent residence. Bad arguement.....

End of story.

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[Donutz]

@Kudel: How can you be so sure while your statements regarding marriage and travel on a Type C "tourist visa" are wrong?

- The Visa Code is very clear that you can travel through all Schengen countries on a visa type C or D (unless there are explicit restrictions on the visa sticker).

In a more readable format the EU websites states so too:

"Schengen area: The free movement of persons is a fundamental right guaranteed by the EU to its citizens. It entitles every EU citizen to travel, work and live in any EU country without special formalities. Schengen cooperation enhances this freedom by enabling citizens to cross internal borders without being subjected to border checks. The border-free Schengen Area guarantees free movement to more than 400 million EU citizens, as well as to many non-EU nationals, businessmen, tourists or other persons legally present on the EU territory."

Source: http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/home-affairs/what-we-do/policies/borders-and-visas/schengen/index_en.htm

- You can marry on a type C visa, though this may depent on national law. People (EU citizen + NON-EU partner) in various nations do marry in their own country or go to a country such as Denmark. Obviously I don't know all the national laws on marriage but the EU or Schengen treaty certainly don't forbid this. I'm only familiar with the Dutch law, which states (among other things) that for a marriage or registrated partnership atleast one person must be Dutch or resident in the Netherlands (source). Marrying a foreigner is very much possible and can be done while the foreigner stays in NL on a Schengen visa. It does take some time to get all the paperwork in order though so good timing is critical. In Denmark the process is much more fast/easy so that is a popular route aswell.

As far as Dutch law is concerned a marriage does NOT give you instant right of ressidence/settlement (obviously?) but neither is is required for a couple to be married (luckily you can apply for a ressidence permit and enter on a type D visa if you can show that you have a "durable and exclusive" relationship by answering a short questionlist and add a few supporting documents such as photo's, IMHO quite fair, rather silly to exclude non married couples for ressidence !!).

As far as Danmark is concerned, the quickest official source I found with google is this (ignore the part about US residense, I crossed it out),and yes a Type C or D Schengen visa (unless there are explicit limitations) do give you legal admittance to Denmark and thus enable you to get married :

According to the Danish Marriage Act, the following is required for a foreigner to be married in Denmark:

• Be lawfully admitted and legally present in Denmark
• Valid passport showing proof of entry into Denmark or into the Schengen area
• If you live outside the U.S., present a valid residence permit from country of residence
• Complete the Marriage Form, which can be downloaded from the City of Copenhagen website

Source:

http://denmark.usembassy.gov/getting--maried.html

Thanks for the update, Donutz.

Presumably the issuing state must have a good reason for imposing such a limitation?

They are called "visas with limited territorial validity" (as said elsewhere: Type A (transit) visa may also have territorial restrictions. They are rare though, the Schengen Code on Visa states some reasons: "...considers it necessary on humanitarian grounds, for reasons of national interest or because of international obligations" (see article 25) or for a member of an Olympic family (Annex XI) . More can be found in the Visa Code :

Article 2

Definitions

For the purpose of this Regulation the following definitions shall apply:

1. "third-country national" means any person who is not a citizen of the Union within the meaning of Article 17(1) of the Treaty;

2. "visa" means an authorisation issued by a Member State with a view to:

(a) transit through or an intended stay in the territory of the Member States of a duration of no more than three months in any six-month period from the date of first entry in the territory of the Member States;

( transit through the international transit areas of airports of the Member States;

3. "uniform visa" means a visa valid for the entire territory of the Member States;

4. "visa with limited territorial validity" means a visa valid for the territory of one or more Member States but not all Member States;

5. "airport transit visa" means a visa valid for transit through the international transit areas of one or more airports of the Member States;

(...)

Article 23

Decision on the application (...)

4. Unless the application has been withdrawn, a decision shall be taken to:

(a) issue a uniform visa in accordance with Article 24;

(issue a visa with limited territorial validity in accordance with Article 25;

Article 25

Issuing of a visa with limited territorial validity

1. A visa with limited territorial validity shall be issued exceptionally, in the following cases:

(a) when the Member State concerned considers it necessary on humanitarian grounds, for reasons of national interest or because of international obligations,

(i) to derogate from the principle that the entry conditions laid down in Article 5(1)(a), ©, (d) and (e) of the Schengen Borders Code must be fulfilled;

(ii) to issue a visa despite an objection by the Member State consulted in accordance with Article 22 to the issuing of a uniform visa; or

(iii) to issue a visa for reasons of urgency, although the prior consultation in accordance with Article 22 has not been carried out;

or

( when for reasons deemed justified by the consulate, a new visa is issued for a stay during the same six-month period to an applicant who, over this six-month period, has already used a uniform visa or a visa with limited territorial validity allowing for a stay of three months.

2. A visa with limited territorial validity shall be valid for the territory of the issuing Member State. It may exceptionally be valid for the territory of more than one Member State, subject to the consent of each such Member State.

3. If the applicant holds a travel document that is not recognised by one or more, but not all Member States, a visa valid for the territory of the Member States recognising the travel document shall be issued. If the issuing Member State does not recognise the applicant’s travel document, the visa issued shall only be valid for that Member State.

4. When a visa with limited territorial validity has been issued in the cases described in paragraph 1(a), the central authorities of the issuing Member State shall circulate the relevant information to the central authorities of the other Member States without delay, by means of the procedure referred to in Article 16(3) of the VIS Regulation.

5. The data set out in Article 10(1) of the VIS Regulation shall be entered into the VIS when a decision on issuing such a visa has been taken.

(...)

ANNEX VII

FILLING IN THE VISA STICKER

1. Mandatory entries section

(...)

"1.3. When the sticker is used to issue a visa with limited territorial validity pursuant to Article 25(1) of this Regulation this heading is filled in with the name(s) of the Member State(s) to which the visa holder’s stay is limited, in the language of the issuing Member State.

1.4. When the sticker is used to issue a visa with limited territorial validity pursuant to Article 25(3) of this Regulation, the following options for the codes to be entered may be used:

(a) entry of the codes for the Member States concerned;

( entry of the words "Schengen States", followed in brackets by the minus sign and the codes of the Member States for whose territory the visa is not valid;

© in case the "valid for" field is not sufficient for entering all codes for the Member States (not) recognising the travel document concerned the font size of the letters used is reduced.

(...)

ANNEX XI

Article 5

Examination of the collective application for visas and type of the visa issued

1. The visa shall be issued by the services responsible for issuing visas following an examination designed to ensure that the conditions set out in Article 3 are met.

2. The visa issued shall be a uniform, multiple-entry visa authorising a stay of not more than three months for the duration of the Olympic and/or Paralympic Games.

3. Where the member of the Olympic family concerned does not meet the conditions set out in point © or (d) of Article 3, the services responsible for issuing visas may issue a visa with limited territorial validity in accordance with Article 25 of this Regulation.

"

[Donutz]

And asfar as the Thai mother and daughter who were kicked out is concerned (which is kinda offtopic): those were long term ressidents, not type C (short stay, max 90 days per 180 days) visitors.

I am not familiar with Danish law for immigrants (don't confuse temporary stay as directed per Schengen Code or national law for long stay - don't confuse marriage with legal ressidence rights either) or this case but I suspect that they had legal long term ressidence (entering on a type D visa and then obtained legal long term ressidence such as a temporary ressidence permit). Their ressidence permit must have been dependant on their Danish husband/father. He sadly passed away and this apparantly ended their legal ressidence as their was not a strong enough link with Denmark anymore (!!). Long term ressidence is regulated by national law, in the Netherlands for instance in the unfortunate case of the Dutch sponsor passing away the immigrant can apply for an independant ressidence permit so that the immigrant does not have to leave the country (certain conditions do apply though but these are less strict then the demands that apply to a living couple of a Dutchie and an immigrant).

Mother and daughter Im were deported from Denmark last year when Suthida’s husband, Im’s step father, died from cancer. The Danish immigration service decided that their connection to Denmark was not sufficient and their connection to Thailand was far bigger and made the decision to make them leave the country despite the fact they had been living in Denmark for four years. Im and Suthida Nielsen’s story hit the media and this in turn created a public demand to let them back in. The law was then changed retroactively, so that a foreigner’s permission to stay cannot be changed due to the death of a spouse

See: http://www.samuitimes.com/mother-daughter-deported-denmark-finally-go-back-home/

and http://cphpost.dk/news/special-law-saves-thai-girl-but-hundreds-arent-so-lucky.7738.html

Ofcourse the truth is even more complex: there is also the EU route which does give certain rights to those who can use the "freedom of movement" rights, this sometimes gives people an escape route when the national long term settlement rules are too strict for them. Various countries apply more strict rules for their own citizens with an immigrant partner: hey can pretty much demand anything they want for Dutchies in NL, Germans in Germany etc. with a foreign non EU partner unless those have went through the EU route, in that case the EU laws give them some rights that normal citizens may not have (I call it discrimination of citizens). If a Dutchy can't meet the strict local rules they could come here on a type C visa, possible marry in Denmark and then do the EU route (via Belgium, Germany or an other nation) and then use their EU rights for more lenient settlement rights. But now we I'm straying too far off.

Edited March 11, 2014 by Donutz

[Jay Sata]

I can't see how you gain any advantage over marrying in Thailand.

There are still all the hoops to jump through before your wife is allowed to live with you in the UK.

[MarkGM1957]

what are the Uk authorities going to beleive more. An EU state marriage certificate or a Thai one? Mmmmm

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[theoldgit]

what are the Uk authorities going to beleive more. An EU state marriage certificate or a Thai one? Mmmmm

Not really sure what you are saying here, and it has nothing to do with this topic, both are legal and internationally recognised, so I suspect it wouldn't be an issue.