My gf wants to have an abortion.

[thailandbeachisland]

What is the problem ? just fly to Singapore like all high so Thai do.

[Sheryl]

Read the OP. This is not a problem of how to get an abortion. A Thai physician has already determined, apparently, that it can legally be performed right here in Thailand.

[dotx]

Those of you here who are pro-life, I'm just going to say one thing: It's very easy to be pro-life when you're a man.

As a woman, things are very different. She's the one who will be stuck with the kid if the relationship ends. Even if it doesn't, most women become the primary caretakers of children, with their partners "chipping in." Yes, I know that's not always the case, but it happens a lot. Plus, she's the one that has to go through the pregnancy!

Plus, you do NOT bring an unwanted child into the world. If she wants to focus on her career, having a kid is only going to make her resentful. That's a horrible place to be for a child. It's crap that she'll end up loving the kid once it's here and all that. A lot of unloved, unwanted kids in the world. It's a very unfair decision unless it's her decision -- because, again, she's the one who has to have the baby.

Not all men are heartless pigs and to think most are is simply ignorant.

Many men raise children alone for variety of reasons.

But you hardly hear about this cases, because men do not go around crying about it.

I have 5 friends, all single fathers and all raising children alone, while ex-wives/mothers are too busy searching for a new man or living a new life.

That's not even close to what I said. Don't put words in my mouth.

The woman is still the one who has to go through the pregnancy and delivery -- and she shouldn't be asked to do it if she doesn't even want the baby in the first place.

Interesting theory.

So if the man does not want the baby in the first place, then i guess he should NOT be asked or made to support it?

I think it's actually unfair to ask the man to pay for 18 years for a kid he didn't want but the woman decided to have anyway. Yes, accidental pregnancies do happen. But as a woman, it's ultimately your fault if you get pregnant (using birth control pills -- and using them properly -- gives you 99.9 percent protection).

I had a coworker who was in a casual relationship with a guy. The guy told her from the beginning that he didn't want kids. Ever. So she knew what his position was. They were using condoms and she was supposed to be on birth control too. She lied. The condom broke once and she ended up pregnant. She had the baby and took the guy to court to get payments. I think she's wrong. If the guy had refused to wear a condom, for example, I would probably think differently. I'm just saying that the man should not be automatically forced to pay for a baby he didn't want.

Regardless, this is a very different situation. In the end, whether a baby is born or not it's the woman's decision. Yes, it's nice to include the father in the conversation, but in the end, his opinion really doesn't matter because he's not the one having the baby.

Edited March 17, 2014 by dotx

[LaraC]

Sounds like your gf has a good head on her shoulders with legitimate and practical reasons why it is not right for her at this time to have a child. Have a serious discussion about your concerns, you have every right to, but in truth when it comes down to it, it really is her choice because she is the one who will bare the brunt of this decision for all time.

For the dramatists she not killing a baby, it is not yet a baby.

I also think too many people in the world go on to have children they either didnt really want, resent, or are ill equipped to bring up correctly. THis results in a very unhappy childhood and the world is being overpopulated by children churned out for no other reason than this idea that it would be wrong to rid the body of some cells. For me it is MORE cruel to bring an unwanted child into the world than to abort it at cell level.

[LaraC]

What is the problem ? just fly to Singapore like all high so Thai do.

Er... im sure your sensitive advice will be most useful to the OP in this matter.

[smileydude]

Though I am pro-choice and agree with the law that abortion is the best choice in rape/incest pregnancy or if necessary to save the life of the woman, proceeding with an abortion based on economic or social reasons is not grounds for which abortion is permitted.

You're pro-choice? You sound very much anti-choice/pro-life.

I believe the father does have a say, but ultimately, it's the woman's choice. It's her body. And the reasons for her choice doesn't really matter as she is the one who has to live with it. As such, she doesn't have to justify her reasons to anyone. The OP should respect her decision. If in the future they ever decide to start a family, they can still do it. Why do it now if she's not ready?

I always thought pro-lifers believed that under no circumstances whatsoever should an abortion be performed? My belief is that the decision to have an abortion should be based on more then just social and economic inconvenience. I believe that is rather callous. But if both discussed it over logically and rationally and the woman feels she is not ready then ultimately its her choice, thus I am pro-choice.

The legal framework for abortion in Thailand does not liberally support abortions as many here seem to suggest and just saying your not emotionally ready does not justify an abortion (unless your 13 or mentally handicapped). If she decides to abort I hope she is able to have it done in a hospital setting willing to perform it as I know that many won't (its illegal) thats why there are many illegal abortion clinics staffed by quacks.

Edited March 17, 2014 by smileydude

[LaraC]

Blah blah blah, yawn yawn yawn, wrap your head around the fact that this is Thailand,, put you Thai rosy glasses on and look at things their way, STOP thinking like a westerner with emotion, new dad, living human being, love love vomit, wake up, you are in Thailand, they are smarter than you, look at all the bar girls, and those that love you for money, how many don't care if you wear a rubber or not, then tell you OH darling i not have period this month, give me 15,000 baht for an abortion, so in your manly western way feel guilty and you fork out the money so you can "do the right thing" and so on and on it goes, the reality is.... now listen, in Thailand you can buy in any pharmacy, village convenience shop and over the counter an abortion pill, many girls carry this pill with them, just in case, they know the score, any way they get pregnant is if they want to, so they can scam the falang (probably) so getting pregnant by mistake is highly unlikely and getting an abortion is illegal in Thailand and so are pirated movies, get it. (wake up)

..this is truly a perfect example of what is wrong with some of the western males in this country.

[seancbk]

Sounds like your gf has a good head on her shoulders with legitimate and practical reasons why it is not right for her at this time to have a child. Have a serious discussion about your concerns, you have every right to, but in truth when it comes down to it, it really is her choice because she is the one who will bare the brunt of this decision for all time.

For the dramatists she not killing a baby, it is not yet a baby.

I also think too many people in the world go on to have children they either didnt really want, resent, or are ill equipped to bring up correctly. THis results in a very unhappy childhood and the world is being overpopulated by children churned out for no other reason than this idea that it would be wrong to rid the body of some cells. For me it is MORE cruel to bring an unwanted child into the world than to abort it at cell level.

Well said.

[Berkshire]

Though I am pro-choice and agree with the law that abortion is the best choice in rape/incest pregnancy or if necessary to save the life of the woman, proceeding with an abortion based on economic or social reasons is not grounds for which abortion is permitted.

You're pro-choice? You sound very much anti-choice/pro-life.

I believe the father does have a say, but ultimately, it's the woman's choice. It's her body. And the reasons for her choice doesn't really matter as she is the one who has to live with it. As such, she doesn't have to justify her reasons to anyone. The OP should respect her decision. If in the future they ever decide to start a family, they can still do it. Why do it now if she's not ready?

I always thought pro-lifers believed that under no circumstances whatsoever should an abortion be performed? My belief is that the decision to have an abortion should be based on more then just social and economic inconvenience. I believe that is rather callous. But if both discussed it over logically and rationally and the woman feels she is not ready then ultimately its her choice, thus I am pro-choice.

The legal framework for abortion in Thailand does not liberally support abortions as many here seem to suggest and just saying your not emotionally ready does not justify an abortion (unless your 13 or mentally handicapped). If she decides to abort I hope she is able to have it done in a hospital setting willing to perform it as I know that many won't (its illegal) thats why there are many illegal abortion clinics staffed by quacks.

The pro-life agenda in the west (well, USA anyways) typically says no to abortion except rape, incest, or protect the life of the woman....which seems to be your sentiment. There are some in the extreme right who would want a complete prohibition, even in the case of rape. That would be more logical with their argument, actually: If a pro-lifer believes that a fetus is a human, this means that even if the woman was raped, the fetus would still be human. But that would never fly politically.

The pro-choice's position is simply that the woman must decide. Her reason? It's none of our business. So your opinion that a woman should "justify" her reasons is not consistent with the pro-choice position.

[Sheryl]

And as I tried to explain, being unable to continue a pregnancy does not in fact reduce to a list of rational reasons.

No woman has an abortion just because of "inconvenience".

A woman has an abortion because she finds herself unable to continue the pregnancy. It may be that she is at that point in her life unable to cope with any pregnancy, or it may be that she is unable to cope with pregnancy in a specific set of circumstances but it is a genuine inability to cope with an extraordinarily demanding and all-consuming process. It is never a matter of " convenience".

Again, a physician who has spoken in depth with this woman has determined that her case fits within the relatively restrictive provisions of Thai law. I expect that the fact that she has already risked her life and health in an attempt to self-abort carried considerable weight in that determination.

[dotx]

I also think too many people in the world go on to have children they either didnt really want, resent, or are ill equipped to bring up correctly. THis results in a very unhappy childhood and the world is being overpopulated by children churned out for no other reason than this idea that it would be wrong to rid the body of some cells. For me it is MORE cruel to bring an unwanted child into the world than to abort it at cell level.

This is exactly right. Well put.

[humqdpf]

Reading between the lines, it seems to me that you have not had the chance to really talk all of this through with your girlfriend. Now is the time to do so.

Lecturing her on the badness of abortion or that she is killing a child is just not the way to go - no matter what your religion tells you, it is her body and her choice. Given that you had not planned to get her pregnant and she did not expect it, that is just the way things are.

IT is clear that she does not think that the relationship is at that stage when she should introduce you to the parents. That is very telling but it could be that until now you have not shown commitment. Very pragmatically, she is hedging her bets - at some stage in her life, she wants to get married and having a baby before makes this difficult or impossible (at least for most Thai men).

What you might do is to sit her down and tell her that you are prepared to support her in her choice, whichever way she wants to go. If you have the idea that you really want to spend the rest of your life with this lady, now would be the time to start to float that idea. The only way in which she will keep this pregnancy is if she gets a commitment and her parents agree with her marrying you.

However, if you have doubts or especially if you think that this lady is never going to settle with you, cut your losses now, pay for the termination and move on. Yes, it is the termination of a potential life but so is the morning after pill and, when you think about it, so is any situation in which conception could have taken place, including abstinence!

There are plenty of other nice young ladies in Thailand who will want to be with you and marry you (assuming that you are a reasonable guy). Perhaps this is just not the right one.

[Daniel Boon]

emotively, it could be a healthy baby human (we seem fixated at the value of humans over other species)

analytically, the world - including Thailand - is over-populated

practicality, it is the woman's body and her life permanently placed on a different path

but you know this already ...

[Sheryl]

Reading between the lines, it seems to me that you have not had the chance to really talk all of this through with your girlfriend. Now is the time to do so.

Lecturing her on the badness of abortion or that she is killing a child is just not the way to go - no matter what your religion tells you, it is her body and her choice. Given that you had not planned to get her pregnant and she did not expect it, that is just the way things are.

IT is clear that she does not think that the relationship is at that stage when she should introduce you to the parents. That is very telling but it could be that until now you have not shown commitment. Very pragmatically, she is hedging her bets - at some stage in her life, she wants to get married and having a baby before makes this difficult or impossible (at least for most Thai men).

What you might do is to sit her down and tell her that you are prepared to support her in her choice, whichever way she wants to go. If you have the idea that you really want to spend the rest of your life with this lady, now would be the time to start to float that idea. The only way in which she will keep this pregnancy is if she gets a commitment and her parents agree with her marrying you.

However, if you have doubts or especially if you think that this lady is never going to settle with you, cut your losses now, pay for the termination and move on. Yes, it is the termination of a potential life but so is the morning after pill and, when you think about it, so is any situation in which conception could have taken place, including abstinence!

There are plenty of other nice young ladies in Thailand who will want to be with you and marry you (assuming that you are a reasonable guy). Perhaps this is just not the right one.

Thank you for putting this topic back on track (after all OP did not ask people their opinions on abortion!)

I don't think we have anyway of knowing what if anything would change how this woman feels about the pregnancy; the fact that she attempted to abort without having first even told him suggests to me that nothing he can say or do would change matters for her, but certainly he should try, if only for his own peace of mind.

I do not however agree with the advice to pay for the termination. That would make him directly complicit in something he has made clear is contrary to his religious views. I think what he needs is to be clear that he has done everything he can do and that the abortion was purely her choice, not his.

[David48]

I'm all for having kids 'for the right reasons'.

We've just had TWINS.

But, when you are blessed with the pregnancy that is unwanted by one of the two parents ... obviously difficult issues do arise.

If you convey the reasons and motives for your Thai GF to abort ... they are certainly logical.

While you have some input into the discussion to physical power remains with your Partner.

If you decide to go ahead with the procedure ... while one life will be lost, presuming that she goes on to have children in the future ... others will be created.

Good luck with your collective decision.

OH ... as a newbie Dad and knowing the amazing amount of work that goes into raising a child (two actually) ... my gut feeling would be to delay till you are both ready for this life changing experience.

David, as a newbie dad, as well as the amazing amount of work involved, you also know the joy and happiness your twins bring to you and your wife.

God forbid, you wouldn't want anything bad to happen to your kids.

So why are you advising the OP to terminate the life of his kid?

Well, if the OP is true ... and his partner has taken a substance to already abort the Fetus ... then there are some long term effects to consider.

I'm a little different to many of the folk here ... when I was 12 years old, my mum had 2 major strokes withing 24 hours of each other.

Till she went into a nursing Home when I was 24 ... I cared for her, as did my sister ... my Dad was elderly and couldn't contribute much in the way of assistance.

She could never speak or communicate to me again ... I was 12.

I know, only too well the 24/7 care and support that a person who is not fully able requires.

But that's not particularly unique.

What makes my situation unique is that I don't live in a Thai Family where I am the alpha Male ... there are sometimes up to 7 Thai Adults living in this house ... and about that many number of children ... living or staying over.

I see a lot!

As it happens, one child, now an adult survived her mums inability to take care of herself while she was pregnant. She's a niece of the Farm Family.

She is in her mid-20's, standing next to a then 6 year old

That's just a regular wheel she's cleaning

She has no real life ... the Farm Family here provide her with a bedroom which she lives in maybe 23 hours a day ... even on the hottest of days.

I doubt she'd trouble the scales much past 30 kgs

Sure, she has a life ... but of what quality? There is no eye contact, no words spoken ... I doubt that she can read or has attended school.

So, if you read into my reply that I was suggesting abortion (which I wasn't ... I was just trying to lead the OP to his own conclusions) ... I have some real concerns, as does the consulting doctor as to the heath of the Fetus.

It is very easy to concentrate one a single issue, when there are many at play here.

I know of a number of examples where the woman, on discovering that she was pregnant, tried to self medicate and abort the Fetus.

Some were successful ... some less so ... so the Thai society, as does this Farm Family, due to their good heart, support those non-professional attempts at abortion.

Sometimes, it's best to step back and look at the whole issue and not focus on one particular point.

.

[ghworker2010]

Reading between the lines, it seems to me that you have not had the chance to really talk all of this through with your girlfriend. Now is the time to do so.

Lecturing her on the badness of abortion or that she is killing a child is just not the way to go - no matter what your religion tells you, it is her body and her choice. Given that you had not planned to get her pregnant and she did not expect it, that is just the way things are.

IT is clear that she does not think that the relationship is at that stage when she should introduce you to the parents. That is very telling but it could be that until now you have not shown commitment. Very pragmatically, she is hedging her bets - at some stage in her life, she wants to get married and having a baby before makes this difficult or impossible (at least for most Thai men).

What you might do is to sit her down and tell her that you are prepared to support her in her choice, whichever way she wants to go. If you have the idea that you really want to spend the rest of your life with this lady, now would be the time to start to float that idea. The only way in which she will keep this pregnancy is if she gets a commitment and her parents agree with her marrying you.

However, if you have doubts or especially if you think that this lady is never going to settle with you, cut your losses now, pay for the termination and move on. Yes, it is the termination of a potential life but so is the morning after pill and, when you think about it, so is any situation in which conception could have taken place, including abstinence!

There are plenty of other nice young ladies in Thailand who will want to be with you and marry you (assuming that you are a reasonable guy). Perhaps this is just not the right one.

Thank you for putting this topic back on track (after all OP did not ask people their opinions on abortion!)

I don't think we have anyway of knowing what if anything would change how this woman feels about the pregnancy; the fact that she attempted to abort without having first even told him suggests to me that nothing he can say or do would change matters for her, but certainly he should try, if only for his own peace of mind.

I do not however agree with the advice to pay for the termination. That would make him directly complicit in something he has made clear is contrary to his religious views. I think what he needs is to be clear that he has done everything he can do and that the abortion was purely her choice, not his.

After reading Sheryl's opinion above I totally agree as it should not be an obligation of the man if he doesnt want to partake in this abortion.

Edited March 17, 2014 by ghworker2010

[once were warriors]

It never ceases to amaze me when the 'abortion' (infant murder) topic comes up how every man/woman and his/her dog tries to justify the logic behind it all.

1. Years of research have found that ripping an unborn baby apart (aka abortion) can cause serious injuries to it and probable death.

2. Nobody has the right to end another person's life. Not the mother, father, doctor...NOBODY. Would we allow a mother to clobber 'her' child to death because she couldn't afford to keep it...at 5 years old? Isn't it HER choice and HER child?

3. Everyones life carries value regardless of what stage it is at. The aborted baby was going to be a little girl/boy then a teen...adult.

4. We have no right to put logic into the reasons for aborting. These reasons are all selfish, and are not considering the rights of a helpless baby who is growing day by day ready for it's debut into the world. A debut that was granted to everyone reading this forum.

5. An unborn baby: is not inconvenient, is not responsible for bad timing, should not be killed because of the mother's financial situation, deserves a chance to enter the world, is unique...never to be duplcated, is not to be killed because the mother/father want to protect their reputation/status, cannot protect itself, is hoping for someone to reason in it's favour, is priceless.

Hi Sue...hi Mary! What did you do over the weekend? Oh, nothing out of the ordinary...just booked my ticket to Bali, went clubbing (spent $150), bought those new shoes, killed my unborn baby, went to the gym and had my nails done. Life is good. It's all about fun, fun, fun...me...me....me!!

Yes...I am a person who stupidly at the age of 19 convinced my 19 year old gf to abort our child. Have never gotten over it and still feel guilty to this day. I'm sure our unborn child would rather have been born into a humble home that torn to shreds before being given the chance. Now 30 years later, very financial...married and childless (not through choice!) I've had a long time to think about my selfish ways of the past.

If I could turn back the clock I would not have convinced my gf to abort our child.

[HooHaa]

As a young man I could see nothing wrong with abortions for women who wanted them, whatever the reason.

Now, in my twilight years, I have become much more 'pro-life' and strongly feel that abortions should only be carried out in certain, extreme circumstances - although if the woman lives in a country where abortions are legalised, then I would never dream of stopping her exercising her legal rights.

But as far as the OP's girlfriend is concerned, abortions are clearly illegal in Thailand, and I for one am amazed that we are discussing and advising someone to commit an illegal act in open forum.

Not the case. Abortion is legal in a variety of circumstances, including fetal abnormality and danger to the physical or mental health of the mother. See the pinned notice.

It seem to me that the reasons given by the OP for his GF wanting an abortion do not fit the "fetal abnormality and danger to the physical or mental health of the mother" categories and is therefore de facto illegal.

Anyway, I won't belabour the point. Presumably there are doctors who can be 'persuaded' to agree that the woman's mental health may be at risk.

In Thailand anything is available for a price, but I'm still surprised that a discussion on the 'circumvention of the law' is permitted on Thai Visa.

But so be it, and I will butt out....

and you can make a decision regarding the mental health of any woman from behind your keyboard let alone in person?

how is getting a leagally approved abortion circumventing the law?

im astonished at how males with a poor track record of controlling even their own impulses could still so strongly wish to have control of women they dont even know.

Edited March 17, 2014 by HooHaa

[HooHaa]

It never ceases to amaze me when the 'abortion' (infant murder) topic comes up how every man/woman and his/her dog tries to justify the logic behind it all.

1. Years of research have found that ripping an unborn baby apart (aka abortion) can cause serious injuries to it and probable death.

2. Nobody has the right to end another person's life. Not the mother, father, doctor...NOBODY. Would we allow a mother to clobber 'her' child to death because she couldn't afford to keep it...at 5 years old? Isn't it HER choice and HER child?

3. Everyones life carries value regardless of what stage it is at. The aborted baby was going to be a little girl/boy then a teen...adult.

4. We have no right to put logic into the reasons for aborting. These reasons are all selfish, and are not considering the rights of a helpless baby who is growing day by day ready for it's debut into the world. A debut that was granted to everyone reading this forum.

5. An unborn baby: is not inconvenient, is not responsible for bad timing, should not be killed because of the mother's financial situation, deserves a chance to enter the world, is unique...never to be duplcated, is not to be killed because the mother/father want to protect their reputation/status, cannot protect itself, is hoping for someone to reason in it's favour, is priceless.

Hi Sue...hi Mary! What did you do over the weekend? Oh, nothing out of the ordinary...just booked my ticket to Bali, went clubbing (spent $150), bought those new shoes, killed my unborn baby, went to the gym and had my nails done. Life is good. It's all about fun, fun, fun...me...me....me!!

Yes...I am a person who stupidly at the age of 19 convinced my 19 year old gf to abort our child. Have never gotten over it and still feel guilty to this day. I'm sure our unborn child would rather have been born into a humble home that torn to shreds before being given the chance. Now 30 years later, very financial...married and childless (not through choice!) I've had a long time to think about my selfish ways of the past.

If I could turn back the clock I would not have convinced my gf to abort our child.

what a load of utter <deleted>.

sanctimonious twaddle born of hypocrisy.

talk about me me me me.

[dotx]

It never ceases to amaze me when the 'abortion' (infant murder) topic comes up how every man/woman and his/her dog tries to justify the logic behind it all.

1. Years of research have found that ripping an unborn baby apart (aka abortion) can cause serious injuries to it and probable death.

2. Nobody has the right to end another person's life. Not the mother, father, doctor...NOBODY. Would we allow a mother to clobber 'her' child to death because she couldn't afford to keep it...at 5 years old? Isn't it HER choice and HER child?

3. Everyones life carries value regardless of what stage it is at. The aborted baby was going to be a little girl/boy then a teen...adult.

4. We have no right to put logic into the reasons for aborting. These reasons are all selfish, and are not considering the rights of a helpless baby who is growing day by day ready for it's debut into the world. A debut that was granted to everyone reading this forum.

5. An unborn baby: is not inconvenient, is not responsible for bad timing, should not be killed because of the mother's financial situation, deserves a chance to enter the world, is unique...never to be duplcated, is not to be killed because the mother/father want to protect their reputation/status, cannot protect itself, is hoping for someone to reason in it's favour, is priceless.

Hi Sue...hi Mary! What did you do over the weekend? Oh, nothing out of the ordinary...just booked my ticket to Bali, went clubbing (spent $150), bought those new shoes, killed my unborn baby, went to the gym and had my nails done. Life is good. It's all about fun, fun, fun...me...me....me!!

Yes...I am a person who stupidly at the age of 19 convinced my 19 year old gf to abort our child. Have never gotten over it and still feel guilty to this day. I'm sure our unborn child would rather have been born into a humble home that torn to shreds before being given the chance. Now 30 years later, very financial...married and childless (not through choice!) I've had a long time to think about my selfish ways of the past.

If I could turn back the clock I would not have convinced my gf to abort our child.

It's not a baby at that stage. It's a bunch of cells the size of a pinhead. NOT a baby. If your religion/beliefs tell you not to accept abortion, that's your choice, but the argument of "if you wouldn't kill a 5-year-old you can't kill a fetus either" doesn't work. There's no baby.

Also, what in the world does #1 mean? "Years of research have found that ripping an unborn baby apart (aka abortion) can cause serious injuries to it and probable death." Did you actually read that sentence?

Edited March 17, 2014 by dotx

[Sheryl]

Started to get heated here, folks. Please calm down.

And try to revert back to the OP.

OP is already opposed to abortion on religious grounds and unlikely to change his view no matter what is said here. It is, however, not his decision, either legally or practically. And the person whose decision it his (his gf) evidently holds different views, and given that she has not posted here at alli, s absolutely not going to be persuaded to the contrary by anything said here.

OP has asked about hte likelihood of fetal deformity as a result of the ingestion of an unsafe 'traditional poison". That has been answered, although the answer (no one can say at this point) is probably not of much help to him.

He has al;so expressed concerned about negative long-term physical effects from an abortion, this too has been answered (completely unfounded as long as the abortion is perfromed legally. In fact, abortion is vastly safer for a woman than continuing the pregnancy).

Lastly he expressed concerns for the effect n their relationsgip:

"I am worried that I will later resent her for this decision should she proceed and that it could cause our relationship to break up."

This is well founded and frankly the outlook for the relationship is not good. Although he does not mention it, it is also very possible that she will break up with him, in my experience women very often do after having an abortion. Contrary to what some peopel apparently think, women who undergo abortions do not do so lightly. The whole thing - from the initial unwanted pregnancy to the difficult decision to abort and then the abortion itslef - is a traumatic one and when it is over there tends to be a feeling that "he has caused me enough grief already" (even if the man was not in any way negligent in allowing the pregnancy to occur -- it is just that in her mind he is now indelibly associated with this whole unpleasant chapter of her life).

If she does not break up with him despite the above, he surely will have residual feelings about her decision to abort that will affect his feelings for her.

One way or the other, sorry to say, the outlook for the relationship is poor. Even without the pregnancy, it wouldn't be very good given the fact that she does not, according to the OP, reciprocate his feelings of love. The pregnancy has shone a spotlight on this fact, those cards are now on the table and there isn't likely to be any going back.

[hotrod4098]

had the op done the right thing this would not have been a issue..

condoms...

pill

jab..

all available in thailand easy..so why do the deed knowing you could get her pregnant,,and she is no better ,,,pill easy to buy 30 baht...jab in the bum...last 3 months..around 100 baht..

problem solved...

why get pregnant...if you dont wont to

[Sheryl]

An angry and argumentive post has been deleted, please see above.

If you want to have a theoretical debate on this topic, take it into Pub (though even there I suspect it won't last long -- people just get way too emotional on this topic).

Otherwise please try to stay focused o nthe specific concerns of the OP.

[MyFriend You]

abortions are illegal except for special reason.

why should she want to kill a baby..thais dont like to kill any thing..

and the question is..is it yours...as you said you have been away...and yes thai girls do sleep around...

It happened to a friend of mine years ago, he too was against abortion for religious reasons, she listened to him, had the baby,and it was not his, he is white as snow with red hair and the baby was definately African dissent.......sad part of the story is they hung on for awhile, but eventually got divorced - the girl gave the baby to the Grandmother to take care while she worked the bars, the grandmother wound up killing the kid as she was embarrased the kid was so black. Sad but true. In Thailand appearance is everything.

[David48]

It never ceases to amaze me when the 'abortion' (infant murder) topic comes up how every man/woman and his/her dog tries to justify the logic behind it all.

1. Years of research have found that ripping an unborn baby apart (aka abortion) can cause serious injuries to it and probable death.

1. Years of research have found that ... (an) abortion can cause serious injuries to it (the fetus) and probable death.

I stopped reading after that gem of a statement ...

.

[dighambara]

"All 3 reasons are legitimate but abortion is hard for me to deal with due to my religion and the fact that I’m in my early 40’s in love with a girl aged in her late 20’s who clearly does not have the same loving feelings – and according is not ready for a family. I am worried that I will later resent her for this decision should she proceed and that it could cause our relationship to break up."

Sorry to say BUT i'm with her on this. You should have discussed it with her earlier to see if babies were in the plan. If not YOU should have ensured adequate protection..

Think about it IF your relationship DID break up SHE would have a baby to bring up and a devastated life. You have to stop being selfish.

LIFE DOES NOT FOLLOW LOGIC.

People i casual relationships rarely plan for such events.

[Daniel Boon]

here is my take on it ...

religion is a pyramid system, it herds humans ... when one more is born and branded, that's another income stream (small as it may be, but multiplied by subservient others like OP, it adds up); the fetus could have been a female ... and borne many more children ... consider the exponential growth of income generation ...

Fate decides who survives and for how long ... call me a cynic.

[LaraC]

It never ceases to amaze me when the 'abortion' (infant murder) topic comes up how every man/woman and his/her dog tries to justify the logic behind it all.

1. Years of research have found that ripping an unborn baby apart (aka abortion) can cause serious injuries to it and probable death.

2. Nobody has the right to end another person's life. Not the mother, father, doctor...NOBODY. Would we allow a mother to clobber 'her' child to death because she couldn't afford to keep it...at 5 years old? Isn't it HER choice and HER child?

3. Everyones life carries value regardless of what stage it is at. The aborted baby was going to be a little girl/boy then a teen...adult.

4. We have no right to put logic into the reasons for aborting. These reasons are all selfish, and are not considering the rights of a helpless baby who is growing day by day ready for it's debut into the world. A debut that was granted to everyone reading this forum.

5. An unborn baby: is not inconvenient, is not responsible for bad timing, should not be killed because of the mother's financial situation, deserves a chance to enter the world, is unique...never to be duplcated, is not to be killed because the mother/father want to protect their reputation/status, cannot protect itself, is hoping for someone to reason in it's favour, is priceless.

Hi Sue...hi Mary! What did you do over the weekend? Oh, nothing out of the ordinary...just booked my ticket to Bali, went clubbing (spent $150), bought those new shoes, killed my unborn baby, went to the gym and had my nails done. Life is good. It's all about fun, fun, fun...me...me....me!!

Yes...I am a person who stupidly at the age of 19 convinced my 19 year old gf to abort our child. Have never gotten over it and still feel guilty to this day. I'm sure our unborn child would rather have been born into a humble home that torn to shreds before being given the chance. Now 30 years later, very financial...married and childless (not through choice!) I've had a long time to think about my selfish ways of the past.

If I could turn back the clock I would not have convinced my gf to abort our child.

Seeing as you are so passionate about babies being born into the world, let me ask you if your sentiment stretches to help out all those kids that are dumped into adoption homes or brought up in miserable conditions.

What are you doing to back up your strong sentiments to help out all the children brought into the world living in terrible and unhappy conditions?

[LaraC]

had the op done the right thing this would not have been a issue..

condoms...

pill

jab..

all available in thailand easy..so why do the deed knowing you could get her pregnant,,and she is no better ,,,pill easy to buy 30 baht...jab in the bum...last 3 months..around 100 baht..

problem solved...

why get pregnant...if you dont wont to

You would imagine that if it is against someones religion to abort an embryo, it would also be against their religion to use barrier methods.

Funny how so many religious people pick and choose what is ok for them within their religion as they please.

I dont know the OP's circumstance, and not suggesting thats the case, its just a general observation.

[advancebooking]

Im the OP who wrote this thread.

As one would expect the opinions have been wide ranging and I respect that everyone has their own on this sensitive topic. I thought that Sheryle the moderator wrote some really sensible, balanced and respectful words and I think thaivisa made a fine decision giving her a job as a moderator of this forum

I had a long chat with my gf last night and this morning. Ultimately she is worried about her reputation and that of her high status parents. She fears divorce... i.e. if I am to meet the parents, they will insist that we get married and then she later fears our relationship might not last the test of time. She said that we have only known each other a short time. She is totally correct with her thoughts and I understand where she is coming from being a beautiful and intelligent 27 year old with her life ahead of her full of opportunities.

I asked her about the possibility of moving away from this city where we live (away from her parents) and having the baby without getting married and without knowledge of her parents. I'm financially sound and can support a child. She told me that she is not interested in this situation.

The worry is that the herbal poision that she drank for 12 days might cause defects / abnormalities and that this can only be determined at 16 to 20 weeks with the scans. It that stage of the babies growth its just too cruel to proceed with an abortion

This is one of the hardest things Ive ever had to deal with and probably the same for her. Its another one of life's lessons to be learnt the hard way.