Whiteraven Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 I realize that this subject has been spoken about many times however I am totally confused. My Brother is Australian and His Girlfriend Thai. Their first child was born 6 days ago. She has told him the only way the baby can have his surname is if he marries her and changes the babys name. He is over in Thailand at the moment. He has been told that he needs to have forms completed, statements from her father and a friend of hers to declare he is the biological Father of the child however the baby will still not be able to carry his surname unless he marrys her. I am wondering how much of this is true and if there is a way the baby can carry his surname without getting married. This is his 1st born son and for obvious reasons would like him to have his surname. He does intend on marrying her just not yet. They have applied for the partner visa some time back and he wants to wait until she and the baby are in Australia before they marry. She has been pushing him to marry for the past 2 years so I am wondering if what she is telling him is just to have him marry her now or if there is truth in it. Any advice would be greatly appreciated also if anyone knows how the baby can have his surname now any information would be great. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mario2008 Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 If he is on the birth certificate, many amphurs will allow the child to be registered with the fathers last name. But legally that is not right. Under Thai law a name must have a meaning in Thai. Execeptions are made when at least of of the parents is a foreigner. Your brothers problem is that he is not the legal father of the child. To become that he would indeed need to marry the mother, but there are two other options to become the legal father. 1. both mother and child confirm that he is the father at the amphur (child must be around 7 years old to do so). 2. go to court and asked to be recognised as the legal father of the child. This can take a few months. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whiteraven Posted March 17, 2014 Author Share Posted March 17, 2014 Thanks Mario2008. It's certainly different over in Thailand to Australia. He has told that the statements from her father and her friend are all that is required to prove he is the Biological Father of the child. That in itself makes no sense to me as how would they know really. I thought if that is all that is required to prove he is the Biological Father then why can't the child carry his surname? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mario2008 Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 Those statements might support a claim that he is the father, but it is the court that will decide on that and if the court agrees the court decision is entered into the register at the amphur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whiteraven Posted March 17, 2014 Author Share Posted March 17, 2014 Thanks Mario. In your 1st response you mentioned that some amphurs may allow the child to carry the Fathers surname as my Brother is a foreigner. There are many reasons why he wants his son to have his surname one being that our Father is elderly and would like him to know that the family surname is being passed down. So it would be up to the Amphur? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whiteraven Posted March 17, 2014 Author Share Posted March 17, 2014 Sorry for all the questions I have read so much that my brain feels pickled. Really appreciate your responses and so appreciate the way your explaining it. Nice and easy to understand. Had a migraine for days trying to get my head around what I have been reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mario2008 Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 Thanks Mario. In your 1st response you mentioned that some amphurs may allow the child to carry the Fathers surname as my Brother is a foreigner. There are many reasons why he wants his son to have his surname one being that our Father is elderly and would like him to know that the family surname is being passed down. So it would be up to the Amphur? Yes, it would be up to the amphur and strictly speaking they should not allow it. It is an act of kindness if they do. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whiteraven Posted March 17, 2014 Author Share Posted March 17, 2014 Thank You so much Mario2008 I really appreciate it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post woodside30 Posted March 18, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted March 18, 2014 My daughter was born in Chon Buri province. The mother and I are not married. However, the birth certificate gives my daughter my surname and shows me as the father. I have taken a DNA test and after some hard work have obtained UK nationality for her. We are now working on her UK passport. So yes, it can be done 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satcommlee Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Absolutely no problem for me either and the hospital dealt with everything.. However the mother may be reluctant because the child may face some discrimination in later life if he/she has a foreign surname. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berg1666 Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 I call bullshit by his partner. My first born 2012 in BKK, my Thai partner and I aren't married. Child has my family name on passport and birth certificate (took a bit of twisting and turning to get the Thai characters right though!). Was never once queried or questioned at any stage by anyone at the hospital registration or at the city office when applying for the passport. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Water Buffalo Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 My daughter was born out of marriage and she has my surname. No problem. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
recycler Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Weird that many Thais never legally marry and never have this problem. If you are present at birth and your name is on the birth certificate it should not be a problem in Thailand. Other wise you may need to acknowledge the child at the amphur. This is the English translation that the NL Embassy sent me: "When a man has registered the legitimation of a child born out of wedlock, the child will become a legitimate child of the man and the man will become the lawful father of the child.Section 1547 of the Thai Civil and Commercial Code (C&C Code) provides that a child born of parents who are not married to each other is legitimate by:1. the subsequent marriage of the parents or2. by registration made on application by the father or3. by a judgement of the court". To obtain a Dutch passport it was by far the easiest way if we married before birth, so we did. My daughter has a Dutch passport already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bantex Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Before marrying my Thai GF, we had a daughter who has a non Thai name with my last name. No problem at local ampur who were more than helpful with the paperwork. After getting married (not as a result of daughter) my wife took my last name & again the local ampur were great in changing all documents. It can be done easily but we were lucky with the ampur staff. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MobileContent Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 If not married they might not allow it and will follow the mother name. Our amphur in Sakon didn't allowed it so we married and I took the name of the wife. Now we all have the same name Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken The Goat Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Hi, Last September I had a child with my Thai girlfriend. my daughter took my surname. We registered her birth at the local Amphur. Obviously you need your passport and the paper from the hospital with your surname on it. Hopefully he will have been present at the hospital when the child was born and presented his passport to them so that the child was registered with his surname with the hospital. If all that is OK then no problem. I also recommend registering the birth with the Australian Embassy as soon as possible. This helps later should you want to apply for an Australian passport. I am actually British but I think that should be the case with Australia too. If he wants to apply for the child to have a Thai passport then he will need to go along with the child and the mother. Hope this helps. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonmarleesco Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Well, we're not married - though that might change - and my 14yr old son has my surname as well as western christian names. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claude Balls Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 My daughter was born out of marriage and she has my surname. No problem. yes I agree. At the time my daughter was born we were not married and she has my surname. I seem to remember I had to sign yet another piece of paper, at the amphur, that gave my permission for her to have my surname. The rules may vary from amphur to amphur but in my situation it created no problems at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaizbkk Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 (edited) I, myself am not married and my sons name on the birth certificate is Clinton Kennedy Kaiser, nothing Thai about that name......would also add that he is registered on his grandparents house book. Edited March 18, 2014 by kaizbkk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phuketrichard Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 (edited) My daughter was born out of marriage and she has my surname. No problem. as aboive, My daughter born 1994 in Phuket , has my surmane, my nma eon BC, no middle name, no thai name and i was not married at the time, aslo got her a thai an US passport Edited March 18, 2014 by phuketrichard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khunPer Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 »Can a child born outside of marriage have the Fathers surname?« The procedure may be different from amphor to amphor. When my daughter was born some 8 years ago – I the father a foreigner and the mother my Thai GF, we are not married – it was no problem for the child to have my family name. My name is listed as father on the birth certificate and both my GF and I was present when registering the birth at the amphor; which I later learned, that according to the law did not make me the legal father, however it seemed normal procedure at that amphor that the child should carry the father’s family name. The amphor required an approved Thai translation of my family name – approved by my embassy; or a Thai law firm holding the right certificate and stamps to make an official translation; or any approved official document with my name translated to Thai, which for example could be a limited company registration document as board member (director). The first name was subject to be approved by the authorities, as foreign names could not be used; they had a big file to check with not allowed names. The first name, which is a bit unusual, was approved when they could not find it in the file. Birth and registration was in a smaller Isaan town, but as mentioned above, procedures in Thailand seems often to be a little different from province to province. Hope my information may help and wish the OP’s brother good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiangraiTony Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 If he is on the birth certificate, many amphurs will allow the child to be registered with the fathers last name. But legally that is not right. Under Thai law a name must have a meaning in Thai. Execeptions are made when at least of of the parents is a foreigner. Your brothers problem is that he is not the legal father of the child. To become that he would indeed need to marry the mother, but there are two other options to become the legal father. 1. both mother and child confirm that he is the father at the amphur (child must be around 7 years old to do so). 2. go to court and asked to be recognised as the legal father of the child. This can take a few months. What about a 3rd option? I am not married but my THAI girlfriend had a baby and my last name in on the baby's birth certificate. The baby is now 3 years old. We all went to the American consulate office in Choang Mai last week and I completed all the forms to claim the baby's birth abroad (which is Thailand) I sign a couple of papers and my girlfriend signed her name in one place on the document. Now the documents have all been sent to Manila Philippines. I applied for US Passport and Social Security card. I do not see any reason for all this to be approved by USA. That means that my daughter is legally my daughter. So I don't understand all the other comments. Are you saying that my daughter is legally my daughter reconized by USA but not reconized by Thailand because I didn't register at the Amphur? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leoman Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 I think your gf is telling you porky pies. My first daughter was born when we were not married and no problems with birth certificates etc as a previous poster said all paperwork done buy the hospital then taken to the amphur for the certificate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wym Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Yes, each jurisdiction has its own requirements. And note that just because your own country recognizes your paternity and issues a home-country passport for your child, doesn't mean you will be allowed to leave the country with him/her, unless the mother goes along or gives you written permission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbeam1 Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Surely the best way to prove that he is the Biological father is as mentioned, a DNA test. People, Courts can not determine who the rightful father is without tests being carried out? jb1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HooHaa Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 just need to be on the birth certificate. i know from experience. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amaxster Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 If he is on the birth certificate, many amphurs will allow the child to be registered with the fathers last name. But legally that is not right. Under Thai law a name must have a meaning in Thai. Execeptions are made when at least of of the parents is a foreigner. Your brothers problem is that he is not the legal father of the child. To become that he would indeed need to marry the mother, but there are two other options to become the legal father. 1. both mother and child confirm that he is the father at the amphur (child must be around 7 years old to do so). 2. go to court and asked to be recognised as the legal father of the child. This can take a few months. What about a 3rd option? I am not married but my THAI girlfriend had a baby and my last name in on the baby's birth certificate. The baby is now 3 years old. We all went to the American consulate office in Choang Mai last week and I completed all the forms to claim the baby's birth abroad (which is Thailand) I sign a couple of papers and my girlfriend signed her name in one place on the document. Now the documents have all been sent to Manila Philippines. I applied for US Passport and Social Security card. I do not see any reason for all this to be approved by USA. That means that my daughter is legally my daughter. So I don't understand all the other comments. Are you saying that my daughter is legally my daughter reconized by USA but not reconized by Thailand because I didn't register at the Amphur? If you, your girlfriend and your child are living in America - then you have paternal rights to your daughter and you and your girlfriend have joint custody of her (I'm presuming - UK myself). Now if you are all living in Thailand and you do not have domestic paternity rights (from the Amphur / Family Courts) - should anything happen to the mother, custody will go (most likely) to the grand parents ... you have no automatic right to become sole guardian of the child, you also have no right to take the child out of Thailand without written consent from her (domestic) guardians. Meaning the child could be here with the grand parents and without their written approval you couldn't even get your daughter to the country (USA) where you are recognized as her father (have you noticed Thai grandparents tend to be a bit clingy? ...). Additionally if you and the mrs should ever split up and she marry's another person, then that man has assumed automatic paternal rights and responsibilities for your child (if you have left them unclaimed) to the point where you could potentially never get access to her again here in Thailand ... These are all worst case scenarios, and generally speaking it seems like it's only these kinds of scenarios that domestic paternal rights will help with (apart from visas) - but then again people buy house insurance not because they expect their home to burn down ... they buy it because you don't want to be up sh*t creek if it unfortunately does! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherrylee2512 Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 i am foreign had a child with a thai man and she took his name outside of marriage was allowed to because he was on birth certificate otherwise not allowed all was very easy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiangraiTony Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 If he is on the birth certificate, many amphurs will allow the child to be registered with the fathers last name. But legally that is not right. Under Thai law a name must have a meaning in Thai. Execeptions are made when at least of of the parents is a foreigner. Your brothers problem is that he is not the legal father of the child. To become that he would indeed need to marry the mother, but there are two other options to become the legal father. 1. both mother and child confirm that he is the father at the amphur (child must be around 7 years old to do so). 2. go to court and asked to be recognised as the legal father of the child. This can take a few months. What about a 3rd option? I am not married but my THAI girlfriend had a baby and my last name in on the baby's birth certificate. The baby is now 3 years old. We all went to the American consulate office in Choang Mai last week and I completed all the forms to claim the baby's birth abroad (which is Thailand) I sign a couple of papers and my girlfriend signed her name in one place on the document. Now the documents have all been sent to Manila Philippines. I applied for US Passport and Social Security card. I do not see any reason for all this to be approved by USA. That means that my daughter is legally my daughter. So I don't understand all the other comments. Are you saying that my daughter is legally my daughter reconized by USA but not reconized by Thailand because I didn't register at the Amphur? If you, your girlfriend and your child are living in America - then you have paternal rights to your daughter and you and your girlfriend have joint custody of her (I'm presuming - UK myself). Now if you are all living in Thailand and you do not have domestic paternity rights (from the Amphur / Family Courts) - should anything happen to the mother, custody will go (most likely) to the grand parents ... you have no automatic right to become sole guardian of the child, you also have no right to take the child out of Thailand without written consent from her (domestic) guardians. Meaning the child could be here with the grand parents and without their written approval you couldn't even get your daughter to the country (USA) where you are recognized as her father (have you noticed Thai grandparents tend to be a bit clingy? ...). Additionally if you and the mrs should ever split up and she marry's another person, then that man has assumed automatic paternal rights and responsibilities for your child (if you have left them unclaimed) to the point where you could potentially never get access to her again here in Thailand ... These are all worst case scenarios, and generally speaking it seems like it's only these kinds of scenarios that domestic paternal rights will help with (apart from visas) - but then again people buy house insurance not because they expect their home to burn down ... they buy it because you don't want to be up sh*t creek if it unfortunately does! This certainly doesn't make sense in your different senero. If I do not register with the Amphur in Thailand and something happens to my GF and as you suggest, the grandparents have domestic rights etc.,.. I have applied for a U.S. Passport. That means that my daughter can fly out of Thailand. The grandparent of the Thai government cannot hold her if she has a US passport and is registered as a US citizen even though she was born in Thailand. Additionally, if my GF leaves me and gets married to another person they do not automatically become the legal parent. As I originally stated, my child has my surname on the birth certificate, I've already been to the US Consulate in Chiang Mai and register my baby's birth, applied for a Social Security Card and a US passport. If I never register my daughter at the Amphur, I don't see how the grandparent have automatic rights if something happens to my GF. I realize that your not a lawyer and each case is different but I think you are not fully understanding the legal aspect of what I have already put in place by registering everything with the US government . Once she is legally my daughter and has my surname on her passport and social security card, the grandparents or the Thailand government cannot change that fact and prevent the legal parent less rights just because I didn't register with the Amphur. Hope you understand whatI am trying to convey to you. And thanks for your input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mario2008 Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 According to Thai law she is not your daughter, so you cannot take her out of the country. US passport or not. What you would need to do is to legalize the child by petitioning the court to be awarded parental rights, which you would in all probability get (unless someone proofs you are totally unfit as a parent). If you don't, the grandparents would probably be awarded with custody over the child or an aunt as being relatives of the child. (A will from he mother asking for you to be awarded custody in case of her death could also go far). But you have to understand this is Thailand and you need to legalize the child under Thai law, not US law. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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