Middle names on Thai birth certificates

[DangerfieldLives]

Hi everyone,

My son (farang father and Thai mother) was born a week ago Saturday. He was given a Farang First Name, a Thai middle name, a Farang middle name and my surname. All of his given names, first name and two middles, are "non-negotiable" from our perspective.

I was told by the hospital just now that he can only legally have one middle name on his Thai birth certificate. They are refusing to issue one with two names and said we will have to cut one.

I couldn't find any reference to this online, though I could find plenty of references of different rules being applied in different "khets".

Is anyone familiar with this? Is this an actual law? And, if so, will this prevent my son from having the full name he was given by his parents on his Western passport?

Thoughts/advice from those who familiar with the law or who have been through this themselves would be most welcome.

Thanks

[Mario2008]

Best to call the Department of Provincial Administration:

www.dopa.go.th

They have a hotline, or call 1111 the goevrnment hotline and they will connect you to the right person to answer your question.

Notice that if you are not married to the mother you are not the legal father and officially the child cannot bear your name as names must have a meaning in Thai.

[DangerfieldLives]

Thank you Mario for the helpful and quick response.

[FiftyTwo]

Thank you Mario for the helpful and quick response.

The hospital plays no part in issuing Birth Certificates, why are you discussing it with them.

Birth Certificates are issued by the Amphur Office, go there and get it yourself.

Up to the Amphur Office, and many are happy to bend the rules for foreigner parents.

Grab the doctors certificate declaring a child has been born, and visit the Amphur Office.

Make sure you also have Marriage cert., Mums ID and House Book, your passport, the kids name written down as you want it in Thai script.

You've also left it a bit late, there's a fine for failing to register the birth at Amphur Office within 14 days of birth. I did mine the day after the birth, all the other new dad's and I trooped down together, straight from the hospital.

Edited March 17, 2014 by FiftyTwo

[wolf5370]

My kids have two middle names each, all are on their Thai birth certs. This was 12 and 14 years ago, but doesn't seem likely they have reduced the amount of given names.

//Edit: Just checked their ID Cards (issued last year) and it also has both middle names.

Edited March 17, 2014 by wolf5370

[DangerfieldLives]

Thanks, solid suggestion. There is a go-between at the hospital who processes birth certificate applications with the local district office. I've been dealing with him just over the phone after providing the documents requested, however I agree that the chances of wiggle room are better if I go myself, and will do so.

[DangerfieldLives]

My kids have two middle names each, all are on their Thai birth certs. This was 12 and 14 years ago, but doesn't seem likely they have reduced the amount of given names.

Thanks, good to know. It does seem like a case of bureaucratic arbitrariness at work.

[FiftyTwo]

Thanks, solid suggestion. There is a go-between at the hospital who processes birth certificate applications with the local district office. I've been dealing with him just over the phone after providing the documents requested, however I agree that the chances of wiggle room are better if I go myself, and will do so.

In LoS, middle-men cause more problems than they solve, best get used to doing everything yourself.

PS. dealing over the phone will lead to spelling mistakes all over the place, some impossible to cure later.

Father name, mother name, child name must all be carefully checked by you before BC issued.

And they all need to exactly match!

Edited March 17, 2014 by FiftyTwo

[wolf5370]

My kids have two middle names each, all are on their Thai birth certs. This was 12 and 14 years ago, but doesn't seem likely they have reduced the amount of given names.

Thanks, good to know. It does seem like a case of bureaucratic arbitrariness at work.

Hi also see my edit wrt ID cards (edited as you replied - you were on the ball )

[Boo]

if you keep running against opposition just hyphanate the 2 middle names i.e somchai-james, then it's technically only one name.

[DangerfieldLives]

if you keep running against opposition just hyphanate the 2 middle names i.e somchai-james, then it's technically only one name.

Thanks, yes, I might do this as a last resort if they can show me the actual law that limits the number of middle names to two.

[eezergood]

if you keep running against opposition just hyphanate the 2 middle names i.e somchai-james, then it's technically only one name.

Thanks, yes, I might do this as a last resort if they can show me the actual law that limits the number of middle names to two.

Total nonsense, we had the same issue when we went to register our little boy. I pointed out that the most revered man in this land (cant mention!) has many names, with lots of letters and we are sure he has a birth cert.

Basically just wanting to make life sabai.....we got our little boy with 2 farang names, 1 thai & 1 family name

[DangerfieldLives]

"Basically just wanting to make life sabai.....we got our little boy with 2 farang names, 1 thai & 1 family name"

Thanks, Eezer. Was it you mentioning that about the most revered man in the land that ended up convincing them to let you go ahead?

The person I spoke with at the hospital contacted the person he was dealing with at the district office. The district office bureaucrat then called up my wife and told her using a condescending tone that I did not understand the rules of Thailand and that she needed to explain them to me. The helpful posts here have convinced me of what I suspected -- that this is some bureaucrat's arbitrary decision and has no actual basis in law.

I'm going tomorrow morning to the district office to straighten this nonsense out.

if you keep running against opposition just hyphanate the 2 middle names i.e somchai-james, then it's technically only one name.

Thanks, yes, I might do this as a last resort if they can show me the actual law that limits the number of middle names to two.

Total nonsense, we had the same issue when we went to register our little boy. I pointed out that the most revered man in this land (cant mention!) has many names, with lots of letters and we are sure he has a birth cert.

Basically just wanting to make life sabai.....we got our little boy with 2 farang names, 1 thai & 1 family name

[eezergood]

Mate, I cant be sure THAT was the reason. My wife pointed out a few Thai superstars that had long mixed names also..... she was very insistent!

If you pm me I can take a pic of our birth cert to prove it can be done!

[GuyL]

if you keep running against opposition just hyphanate the 2 middle names i.e somchai-james, then it's technically only one name.

Thanks, yes, I might do this as a last resort if they can show me the actual law that limits the number of middle names to two.

Total nonsense, we had the same issue when we went to register our little boy. I pointed out that the most revered man in this land (cant mention!) has many names, with lots of letters and we are sure he has a birth cert.

Basically just wanting to make life sabai.....we got our little boy with 2 farang names, 1 thai & 1 family name

The most revered man in Thailand is not Bruce Springsteen, but he was born in the USA too. By the way, his full name, as registred on his birth certificate, is not that long.

[samran]

I've got two middle names on my Thai birth certificate..

[DangerfieldLives]

Thanks to everybody for their feedback on this and especially to Eezer_good who was kind enough to send along a pic of a birth certificate with two middle names, which came in very handy this morning. This is an update on what happened in case it's of use to anyone in a similar situation in the future.

The district official -- Klong Toei, be forewarned for those registering births there -- refused our hospital's request to provide a birth certificate with the names we wanted. After no progress yesterday, my wife and I went ourselves this morning. The same official continued to insist that this was against the rules in Thailand and that there was simply no way around this fact.

He was not expecting to me to pull out a pic of a birth cert proving that it CAN be done. That jarred him into picking up his phone and yammering on it endlessly. I couldn't hear him, but he was making it clear that he was the gateway to this simple thing happening and it was not going to come easy.

Finally he got off the phone and again insisted that it could not be done, that the cert in the pic I showed was issued by someone who did not have his expert grasp on the nuances of baby registration rules. For good measure, he also lectured me on this being Thailand and my son being a Thai citizen who needed to respect the country's rules. I was nearly apopleptic after bearing that xenophobia-tinged pablum and insisted I was not letting this pass, that it was a common enough practice, especially among foreigners, and that he personally was making this difficult.

He then had the nerve to try to bargain with me, suggesting I put the first and second names together (which presumably would mean in English an unnecessary and weird looking hyphen following my son around for the rest of his life). He even questioned the meaning of the farang middle name, asking me why it was so important!

Finally, after much posturing on his part, my wife had a word with him, saying, basically, don't make a mountain out of a molehill, that I was not going to let to this go and for him to "help her out" by letting this go. (She was just as angry as me but obviously knew the better approach to take in this situation). Being shown this face resulted in him "giving" us the birth certificate, with the names as we first requested.

So presumably this rule that he only had just said was inviolate was not exactly written in stone.

It still galls me to think that we had to treat this almost like this guy was doing us a personal favor by completing a task that in the West would have been a few stamps, check a few boxes, and out affair. I've lived here a long time, that type of entitlement from someone whose freight is being paid by taxpayers still raises the blood pressure.

Good result in the end and the baby slept through it all, oblivious to the drama surrounding his name.

Thanks again for all the help and advice.

[eezergood]

Good man & congrats again on the birth

[JayB]

Thanks to everybody for their feedback on this and especially to Eezer_good who was kind enough to send along a pic of a birth certificate with two middle names, which came in very handy this morning. This is an update on what happened in case it's of use to anyone in a similar situation in the future.

The district official -- Klong Toei, be forewarned for those registering births there -- refused our hospital's request to provide a birth certificate with the names we wanted. After no progress yesterday, my wife and I went ourselves this morning. The same official continued to insist that this was against the rules in Thailand and that there was simply no way around this fact.

He was not expecting to me to pull out a pic of a birth cert proving that it CAN be done. That jarred him into picking up his phone and yammering on it endlessly. I couldn't hear him, but he was making it clear that he was the gateway to this simple thing happening and it was not going to come easy.

Finally he got off the phone and again insisted that it could not be done, that the cert in the pic I showed was issued by someone who did not have his expert grasp on the nuances of baby registration rules. For good measure, he also lectured me on this being Thailand and my son being a Thai citizen who needed to respect the country's rules. I was nearly apopleptic after bearing that xenophobia-tinged pablum and insisted I was not letting this pass, that it was a common enough practice, especially among foreigners, and that he personally was making this difficult.

He then had the nerve to try to bargain with me, suggesting I put the first and second names together (which presumably would mean in English an unnecessary and weird looking hyphen following my son around for the rest of his life). He even questioned the meaning of the farang middle name, asking me why it was so important!

Finally, after much posturing on his part, my wife had a word with him, saying, basically, don't make a mountain out of a molehill, that I was not going to let to this go and for him to "help her out" by letting this go. (She was just as angry as me but obviously knew the better approach to take in this situation). Being shown this face resulted in him "giving" us the birth certificate, with the names as we first requested.

So presumably this rule that he only had just said was inviolate was not exactly written in stone.

It still galls me to think that we had to treat this almost like this guy was doing us a personal favor by completing a task that in the West would have been a few stamps, check a few boxes, and out affair. I've lived here a long time, that type of entitlement from someone whose freight is being paid by taxpayers still raises the blood pressure.

Good result in the end and the baby slept through it all, oblivious to the drama surrounding his name.

Thanks again for all the help and advice.

Congratulations and well done on the Birth Certificate.

I’ve just been facing the same problem and so far it’s unresolved.

Our birth certificate was arranged by the hospital as part of the birthing package.

We wanted my son to have two middle names but Vadhana District said this wasn’t possible and the only option was to combine the two middle names (one surname and one first name)

This week we applied for Australian Citizenship and provided a translated birth certificate certified by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Bangkok which has the two middle names separated.

The Embassy has referred to the original birth certificate in Thai and can only accept an application with the combined middle name.

Today we tried to have the birth certificate amended at Vadhana District and they are not willing to do it and have referenced the attached document as their guidance.

As this document is dated last year, other districts may either not be aware of it or are willing to bend the rules.

We’re going back to Vadhana District on Sunday for an appeal.

If anyone is willing to provide a pic of a birth certificate with more than one middle name, it might help our case. I guess they might only look at any issued after the date of the attached ‘directive’.

Just to complete the picture, I’m Australian, my wife is Thai and my son’s name doesn’t include and Thai given or family names.

Let’s hope I’m pleasantly surprised and we get a special case exception.

I’ll post an update next week

Vadhana guidance.pdf

[samran]

I've got two middle names, but registered via the Thai embassy in OZ many years ago, and based off my OZ birth certificate.

The system sure can handle it (my house registration, ID card, Passport and DL all have the two middle names, plus my kids birth certificates), but does raise eyebrows.

I scanned the letter you posted and it is clear they won't allow a space between the two middle names as per the decision.

Might have to blame the case study they used in this letter. The parents named their child 'Destiny Angelena Udomkhunatham.....(no surname given)'.

If they had chosen a less trendy name...who knows, none of this would happen.