Learn Thai and Shut Up

[NoshowJones]

What does "bend my little finger" mean? Is that not being rude? Also, what does lip reading have to do with speaking Thai? If you were able to understand my posts, you would know that I accept TV members not agreeing with me. Now, if you would answer my first sentence.

It is not being rude at all. Sign language is done by fingers. I was trying to get across the point that there are no tones in sign language. No bending of a little finger or other movement to signify a high or low or no tone.

It is impossible to lip read tones. Hence a deaf lip reading Thai can understand a word by the shape or your mouth and don't need to hear a tone.

I hope this explains it.

OK, but you were still off topic, I am trying to learn some basic Thai, I mean speaking Thai, and I don't see what sign language and lip reading has got to do with it, it is hard enough learning to speak Thai without trying to learn sign language and lip reading as well.

[thailiketoo]

What does "bend my little finger" mean? Is that not being rude? Also, what does lip reading have to do with speaking Thai? If you were able to understand my posts, you would know that I accept TV members not agreeing with me. Now, if you would answer my first sentence.

It is not being rude at all. Sign language is done by fingers. I was trying to get across the point that there are no tones in sign language. No bending of a little finger or other movement to signify a high or low or no tone.

It is impossible to lip read tones. Hence a deaf lip reading Thai can understand a word by the shape or your mouth and don't need to hear a tone.

I hope this explains it.

OK, but you were still off topic, I am trying to learn some basic Thai, I mean speaking Thai, and I don't see what sign language and lip reading has got to do with it, it is hard enough learning to speak Thai without trying to learn sign language and lip reading as well.

I was and am still trying to tell you tones are not that important. My tones are awful. No problem. If you speak enough words in a sentence they can figure it out. Deaf Thais don't hear tones. That was my point. Not off topic in the least. Deaf Thais understand Thai but don't hear tones? On topic? Of course.

Edited March 22, 2014 by thailiketoo

[LaraC]

^ I disagree. In my experience tones matter a GREAT deal....

[Nautilus05]

It is not being rude at all. Sign language is done by fingers. I was trying to get across the point that there are no tones in sign language. No bending of a little finger or other movement to signify a high or low or no tone.

Thai and sign language are two COMPLETELY different languages though. It's the same as Thai vs. English. Sign language doesn't contain tones, just like English doesn't.

I do actually agree with you about the tones though. Granted, I'm by no means fluent, but I've never concentrated on the tones at all, and I seem to get around just fine for the most part. I can sit around having a beer and have a conversation completely in Thai for a good hour. Granted, it's quite choppy, but we manage to understand each other. Can't talk about anything too in-depth, but we get the basics across -- who we are, where we're from, kids, wife, where we live, job, whether boss is a good guy or not, where we've traveled, hobbies & interests, etc.

Seems to completely depend on the IQ level of the person you're talking to. People with some intelligence seem to understand me just fine. Others though can't understand me at all (ie. old ladies).

[thailiketoo]

^ I disagree. In my experience tones matter a GREAT deal....

If you can only speak a few words you are correct. But if you can say, "who sells chicken eggs" They will understand you with no problem. Go ahead and try it at the market in the morning.

[NoshowJones]

I believe you are sincere in what you are saying, but I do not believe that tones are not that important, I believe that tones are very important especially rising and falling tones, but as I said, you may get away with using a mid tone instead of a high tone, but I don't think a high tone instead of a low tone so much. I do not know about deaf Thais or deaf anybody as I have never been with any deaf person.

[namatjira]

tones are a big problem so they say, however that is not really true, the majority of thai is spoken

in a regular tone, so do not let it psyche you out...its a furphy...as for living here and not bothering to

learn Thai....that would make life difficult....coming from new zealand, we once had a chinese gentleman

about 50 years of age and he had been in new zealand for 10 years and could not speak a word, people used to

say, do not worry about him, he is just stupid.

That well may be the case for many farang living here......

[ZuluTango70]

I find the English words that have slipped into Thai sometimes hard to understand. I learned a new one yesterday. I knew that some Thais call 2 stroke oil autolube but I was asking my nephew why he couldn't use petrol in a plastic bottle (aka stic) and he said mai dai sy talube lao I finally worked it out. I took me ages to work out that yar para was actually paracetamol because I thought it was being pronounced with an l ie yar pala. I still learn new words nearly every day, trouble is if I don't use them often they go out the back door

I get sick of saying Australia the second time after they always say ahh Austria

It take it , you mean, when ever you go somewhere, someone always asks...."where you from"....I got so sick of them trying to pronounce Australia in many different ways, I just reply now...."up the road"...job done

It's "Ort taylia" mate .

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[LaraC]

^ I disagree. In my experience tones matter a GREAT deal....

If you can only speak a few words you are correct. But if you can say, "who sells chicken eggs" They will understand you with no problem. Go ahead and try it at the market in the morning.

I can have fairly indepth conversations in Thai. I was also once asked if i was born here (which was the biggest compliment to my Thai speaking i have ever received. Which does not mean that i speak fluently, it just means that what i do speak is ชัด/clear)

I would say that mispronouncations with Thai tones probably matter more if you speak Thai well (imo), for when the conversations are more complex or indepth, there are most certainly miscommunications that can happen. Or just sounds strange/odd.

I would say that when i made effort to speak with correct tones, the way Thai speak to you and what they speak to you about changes dramatically.

[LaraC]

tones are a big problem so they say, however that is not really true, the majority of thai is spoken

in a regular tone, so do not let it psyche you out...its a furphy...as for living here and not bothering to

learn Thai....that would make life difficult....coming from new zealand, we once had a chinese gentleman

about 50 years of age and he had been in new zealand for 10 years and could not speak a word, people used to

say, do not worry about him, he is just stupid.

That well may be the case for many farang living here......

Im not sure what you mean by "the majority of thai is spoken in a regular tone". Do you mean the majority of Thai is spoken in a middle tone?? You mean Central Thai or another dialect? I actually really do think tone does make a difference. Just my opinion of course. ..and anyway, i certainly wouldnt want to knock ANYONE learning to speak Thai! BUT i do think its best to learn the right tones and get into the habit of speaking correctly before bad habits etc become harder to fix later.

[FiftyTwo]

^ I disagree. In my experience tones matter a GREAT deal....

If you can only speak a few words you are correct. But if you can say, "who sells chicken eggs" They will understand you with no problem. Go ahead and try it at the market in the morning.

I can have fairly indepth conversations in Thai. I was also once asked if i was born here (which was the biggest compliment to my Thai speaking i have ever received. Which does not mean that i speak fluently, it just means that what i do speak is ชัด/clear)

I would say that mispronouncations with Thai tones probably matter more if you speak Thai well (imo), for when the conversations are more complex or indepth, there are most certainly miscommunications that can happen. Or just sounds strange/odd.

I would say that when i made effort to speak with correct tones, the way Thai speak to you and what they speak to you about changes dramatically.

Nope, still food, sex and how much money.

Cry kahy kai guy (first words long, second two short)

Thanks to this thread I've also mastered 'sow wow' pronounced as short words similar to bow-wow.

'ee he-ow' everyone got first time ..... where you learn talk bad they all asked?

Educational thread, who would figure?

Edited March 22, 2014 by FiftyTwo

[thailiketoo]

^ I disagree. In my experience tones matter a GREAT deal....

If you can only speak a few words you are correct. But if you can say, "who sells chicken eggs" They will understand you with no problem. Go ahead and try it at the market in the morning.

I can have fairly indepth conversations in Thai. I was also once asked if i was born here (which was the biggest compliment to my Thai speaking i have ever received. Which does not mean that i speak fluently, it just means that what i do speak is ชัด/clear)

I would say that mispronouncations with Thai tones probably matter more if you speak Thai well (imo), for when the conversations are more complex or indepth, there are most certainly miscommunications that can happen. Or just sounds strange/odd.

I would say that when i made effort to speak with correct tones, the way Thai speak to you and what they speak to you about changes dramatically.

You speak fluent Thai and made no comment on my suggestion "But if you can say, "who sells chicken eggs" They will understand you with no problem. Go ahead and try it at the market in the morning."

[namatjira]

i would say about 90 percent is middle tone, farangs have this big drama with the few words that are commonly

used that are tonal...check the thai text for tonal marks...not so much.

vocabulary and just talking is the key, they will understand you regardless of the tones,normally.

the tone will come naturally , I like to listen to Thai television ads as they really accentuate

the tones and also speak confident sets of words...great when you understand them..

learn thai on you tube works, it is free, if anybody wants to learn easy.

[Neeranam]

^ I disagree. In my experience tones matter a GREAT deal....

If you can only speak a few words you are correct. But if you can say, "who sells chicken eggs" They will understand you with no problem. Go ahead and try it at the market in the morning.

I can have fairly indepth conversations in Thai. I was also once asked if i was born here (which was the biggest compliment to my Thai speaking i have ever received. Which does not mean that i speak fluently, it just means that what i do speak is ชัด/clear)

I would say that mispronouncations with Thai tones probably matter more if you speak Thai well (imo), for when the conversations are more complex or indepth, there are most certainly miscommunications that can happen. Or just sounds strange/odd.

I would say that when i made effort to speak with correct tones, the way Thai speak to you and what they speak to you about changes dramatically.

You speak fluent Thai and made no comment on my suggestion "But if you can say, "who sells chicken eggs" They will understand you with no problem. Go ahead and try it at the market in the morning."

There are no rising or falling tones in these simple words. I could say try "mai mai mai mai mai" - 'new wood doesn't burn, does it?' They won't have a clue what you're saying.

Learning tones is very important if you want to speak Thai properly of course as it is a tonal language.

Edited March 22, 2014 by Neeranam

[thailiketoo]

You speak fluent Thai and made no comment on my suggestion "But if you can say, "who sells chicken eggs" They will understand you with no problem. Go ahead and try it at the market in the morning."

There are no rising or falling tones in these simple words. I could say try "mai mai mai mai mai" - 'new wood doesn't burn, does it?' They won't have a clue what you're saying.

Learning tones is very important if you want to speak Thai properly of course as it is a tonal language.

Is your post related to my post?

[Neeranam]

i would say about 90 percent is middle tone, farangs have this big drama with the few words that are commonly

used that are tonal...check the thai text for tonal marks...not so much.

vocabulary and just talking is the key, they will understand you regardless of the tones,normally.

the tone will come naturally , I like to listen to Thai television ads as they really accentuate

the tones and also speak confident sets of words...great when you understand them..

learn thai on you tube works, it is free, if anybody wants to learn easy.

Can you read Thai text? If a letter/word doesn't have a tonal mark, it still has a tone, either mid, high, falling, low, or rising.

Edited March 22, 2014 by Neeranam

[Neeranam]

You speak fluent Thai and made no comment on my suggestion "But if you can say, "who sells chicken eggs" They will understand you with no problem. Go ahead and try it at the market in the morning."

There are no rising or falling tones in these simple words. I could say try "mai mai mai mai mai" - 'new wood doesn't burn, does it?' They won't have a clue what you're saying.

Learning tones is very important if you want to speak Thai properly of course as it is a tonal language.

Is your post related to my post?

the following was ommitted -

LaraC, on 22 Mar 2014 - 20:31, said:

^ I disagree. In my experience tones matter a GREAT deal....

If you can only speak a few words you are correct. But if you can say, "who sells chicken eggs" They will understand you with no problem. Go ahead and try it at the market in the morning.

[thailiketoo]

I agree and try and learn tones. If you forget try different ones till you see a look of understanding cross their eyes.

If you have a choice learn to write Thai first. Speak second. If not just keep learning vocabulary eventually the tones will come.

Edited March 22, 2014 by thailiketoo

[namatjira]

just learn to say ' mai mee sa-mawng' works a treat

[FiftyTwo]

just learn to say ' mai mee sa-mawng' works a treat

'Bpan-yaa Qwai', works much better.

Edited March 22, 2014 by FiftyTwo

[geriatrickid]

Well, I am useless in the Thai language. When I was in love with a fair maiden, I would sometimes go to visit here at the "office".

I learnt some important phrases, particularly, hawng dap jit yu thee nai krap which was basically where to find her in the chop shop.

And then I got by with Thinglish, such as saang ok because I didn't want to complain.

Some of the words were rather easy to remember such as huut. I could point and say, ohhhhhh huut rue-a. It would result in looks of, what the heck is that twit saying, but it allowed me to stand around and nod as if I belonged, even when I wasn't as educated or qualified as everyone else.

Thais can be very tolerant of foreigners.

[namatjira]

hear hear, pity the poor thais learning english, here for example, 5 very different meanings,

and no tones at all....how can anybody possibly understand that, walk up to a farang and say hear, hair, heir,

here, hare....they will think you are speaking gibberish, but in context we hear and understand very well,

all the way to the hair on our chiney, chin, chins..right here right now,in context language is understood.

[Skeetjones]

You got to start somewhere.

Even my mom said she sounded stupid when learning English, but didn't get discouraged when people laughed at her so she would laugh too.

35 years later in America, she is able to speak fluently in English. Something her brothers and sisters who have lived here for 30+ years can not do at all and gets very frustrating.

For me as an American looking at them, like "you had 30 something years to learn English and you can't even figure out if the car title is yours or the banks at the DMV, smh"

It's sad really. My uncles, wife has been in America 4 years and speaks better English than him (living here 30+ years), because she TRYS.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[wym]

I'm very surprised with the whole conversation about tones, which I will re-phrase:

It's not so important (or it is) to speak clearly in Thai, in order for people to understand you.

That no one pointed out the fact that this greatly depends on who is listening.

On poster pointed out his fellow farang Thai-speaker had no problem understanding him. That is because his friend's ear is tuned to the sound of a NES speaking (trying to speak) Thai.

In tourist areas, people working in jobs where they interact with foreigners are much more adept at figuring out 1 that we're even trying to speak Thai and 2 what the heck we're trying to say. This is facilitated by the fact that there is a very limited range of phrases/vocabulary and topics foreigners even attempt.

But once you get out of those farang ghetto bubbles, especially out with common-folk poor rural Thais that have had no or very little contact with foreigners, a lot of the time they won't even have any idea a beginner is even trying to speak Thai. Once they do realise that, if they have a lot of motivation to communicate with you, they may or may not be able to make the effort to understand what you're saying, but for those with little experience hearing the way foreigners mangle their language, it's very difficult and most give up pretty quickly.

Obviously context, gestures and body language etc can help a lot with basic market/survival situations, and sometimes that's all you have to fall back on.

In those situations clear pronunciation - of which tones are VERY important - is vital.

Trying to buy stuff around tourist areas, not so much.

[thailiketoo]

You want to hear Thai pronounced clearly and without accent; easy to learn and speakers anxious to teach you?

Teach Prathom in Thailand. At least for me, kids are 100% easier to understand and more than willing to help me with my Thai.

Edited March 23, 2014 by thailiketoo

[Nautilus05]

On poster pointed out his fellow farang Thai-speaker had no problem understanding him. That is because his friend's ear is tuned to the sound of a NES speaking (trying to speak) Thai.

In tourist areas, people working in jobs where they interact with foreigners are much more adept at figuring out 1 that we're even trying to speak Thai and 2 what the heck we're trying to say.

Add educated Thais to the list. From my experience, if they have a decent amount of even basic schooling in them, they most likely have a decent number of English classes under their belt. Due to that, they understand things like the difficulties of learning a new language, that there's no tones in English, there's sounds in English that don't exist in Thai and vice versa, etc. So they have an idea of where you're coming from, and know to give leeway when it comes to pronunciation.

Same as listening to a Thai speak English. They completely murder the language, just as I'm sure I do to the Thai language.

[LaraC]

I'm very surprised with the whole conversation about tones, which I will re-phrase:

It's not so important (or it is) to speak clearly in Thai, in order for people to understand you.

That no one pointed out the fact that this greatly depends on who is listening.

On poster pointed out his fellow farang Thai-speaker had no problem understanding him. That is because his friend's ear is tuned to the sound of a NES speaking (trying to speak) Thai.

In tourist areas, people working in jobs where they interact with foreigners are much more adept at figuring out 1 that we're even trying to speak Thai and 2 what the heck we're trying to say. This is facilitated by the fact that there is a very limited range of phrases/vocabulary and topics foreigners even attempt.

But once you get out of those farang ghetto bubbles, especially out with common-folk poor rural Thais that have had no or very little contact with foreigners, a lot of the time they won't even have any idea a beginner is even trying to speak Thai. Once they do realise that, if they have a lot of motivation to communicate with you, they may or may not be able to make the effort to understand what you're saying, but for those with little experience hearing the way foreigners mangle their language, it's very difficult and most give up pretty quickly.

Obviously context, gestures and body language etc can help a lot with basic market/survival situations, and sometimes that's all you have to fall back on.

In those situations clear pronunciation - of which tones are VERY important - is vital.

Trying to buy stuff around tourist areas, not so much.

..but also, once you get out to more rural areas, depending on where the rural area is, some do not understand central thai. Its a whole other dialect and slang. So even if you speak clear central Thai, you cannot always be sure you will be understood in outlying areas. My ex (Thai) was from Bkk. We took a trip in the north. He saw an old lady selling fruit by the roadside. Stopped to buy some and chat with her. I couldnt follow. They seemed to understand each other well enough. When my ex started driving again, i asked him what she had said to him. He replied "No idea!!". lol

Edited March 23, 2014 by LaraC

[FiftyTwo]

..but also, once you get out to more rural areas, depending on where the rural area is, some do not speak central thai. Its a whole other dialect and slang. So even if you speak clear central Thai, you cannot always be sure you will be understood in outlying areas. My ex (Thai) was from Bkk. We took a trip in the north. He saw an old lady selling fruit by the roadside. Stopped to buy some and chat with her. I couldnt follow. They seemed to understand each other well enough. When my ex started driving again, i asked him what she had said to him. He replied "No idea!!". lol

If you watch Thai news, they often have central Thai subtitles, cos nobody can understand the regional talk.

When two Thais meet for the first time, they exchange names and ages and negotiate a common language to be used.

My wife speaks

Laos (used nationwide by rural farmers), Lanna (in the North), Southern and Central Thai, all totally different. I can understand a bit of each.

Most Thais can switch to a different version to cut you out of a conversation, at will.

Edited March 23, 2014 by FiftyTwo