thailiketoo Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 His premise “Maxim for the Conduct of Ladies” has been passed on from Mother to Daughter and taught to girls in Thai schools since the days of Rama V (the great King of Thailand in the 19th century that brought Siam into the modern world). All Thai women, whether they are an uneducated bar girl, a teacher, a lawyer or even the Prime Minister of Thailand continue to practice some of these maxims in their everyday life. I have no doubt that he is one of the reasons I enjoy Thailand so much and have such a high opinion of Thai women. We do agree that there are, "hundreds of people in your shoes." One can read them complain about everything Thai every day here. So don't read the books considered the pinnacle of Thai literature. Don't learn how to speak Thai. You can keep coming here and telling people how awful Thailand is. Now at least everyone knows why that is true for you. And speaking of Red Bull that was also invented in Thailand. Are you completely insane or deliberately trying to provoke me? Or maybe you can't read plain English? Or you are permanently under influence? First. Where did you see me 'telling people how awful Thailand is'? Appealing to 'anti-thai-bashing' brigade for help? Second. Where from did you bring in your beer brand Red Bull? I was talking about occasional bull seeing red. Now we can talk about mad stupid bull seeing red. Third. In your post # 130 you had a very clumsy attempt to allude to my name ABCer by writing Anti Thai BCer. This is extremely bad taste. I noticed this but decided to go easy on you. It was a mistake because you immediately attacked my culture level knowing nothing about me. I suggest you look into 'thailiketoo'. It may be fun putting various meanings into it. I can help. Fourth. I do not have to know Thai to see that 1 page of English is translated into minimum 2 pages of Thai text. This is verbosity. Fifth. If you think Siam is in modern world you are delusional. Sixth. Wherever you have come from there is probably more culture than wherever you are right now. Pity you didn't learn to appreciate it as much as 'Maxim for the Conduct of Ladies'. I'm sure as a man you have benefited from studying it. Seventh. Check your posts. Your one and only smile shows when you talk of 'Red Bull'. Does it help you to live? or to write this crap on TV as well? Going over seven points above I cannot decide whether you are a provocateur (?) a proverbial bull (?) a rude tasteless ignorant man (?) suffering delusions (?) a chronic alcoholic or a Thai lady(?). I offered to you a peace branch by agreeing on disagreement. But you insist on coming back for more. Your style, your rudeness, your vocabulary indicate you being an uneducated man living in the sticks in Thailand because at home you were, are and always be nothing much. You wrote a long flame. No response from me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eliot Rosewater Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Why would someone learn Thai if they are not going to use it? Are you sure you don't mean "learn Thai and speak up?" Or "Learn Thai OR shut up?" Before you tell others what to do with regard to learning a language; it might be prudent for you to get a grasp of your own language first Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrTuner Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Why would someone learn Thai if they are not going to use it? It's quite an advantage to understand what's being said around you, without those speaking knowing you understand their language. A supreme method of gaining knowledge of their true thoughts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StreetCowboy Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Why would someone learn Thai if they are not going to use it?It's quite an advantage to understand what's being said around you, without those speaking knowing you understand their language. A supreme method of gaining knowledge of their true thoughts. I think the OP's point was that there was no need to show off one's Thai ability. It is commendable that people learn Thai to whatever level that they can, but showing off is equally as insufferably irritating by an expert as by an incompetent. SC 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lomatopo Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Based on the OP's rant shouldn't the title be "Learn Thai, or Shut up"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neeranam Posted March 21, 2014 Author Share Posted March 21, 2014 Why would someone learn Thai if they are not going to use it? Are you sure you don't mean "learn Thai and speak up?" Or "Learn Thai OR shut up?" Before you tell others what to do with regard to learning a language; it might be prudent for you to get a grasp of your own language first:thumbsup: Yes, I'm sure - learn Thai AND shut up - quite simple really. I'm not telling anyone how to learn a language. Has noone every told you to shut up in your native tongue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StreetCowboy Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Based on the OP's rant shouldn't the title be "Learn Thai, or Shut up"? No. I thought that the OP was quite clear. Refer to my summary in the post immediately above yours. Perhaps it could've read "Learn Thai, but shut up". I think he was criticising people who feel obliged to show off their limited Thai abilities. We all should know our limitations, but there is no need to parade them in public. SC 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lomatopo Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 From the original post: I wonder why we do it - I have been guilty too. So do as I say, not as I do. The basic requirement for a rant. Oh if you could just take your own advice. Maybe the OP could "Think Globally, and Act Locally"; just walk right up to the offending parties and tell them to "Learn Thai, and Shut Up"". Please let us know how this more direct approach works out for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willyumiii Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 (edited) Most Thai conversation is about gossip or about food. Nothing of intellect or real interest is discussed in a country where schools do not teach you to think. Grunts, groans and chatter like a chipmunk.... Who cares? Why spend the the time and effort to learn Thai? Edited March 21, 2014 by willyumiii 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thailiketoo Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Most Thai conversation is about gossip or about food. Nothing of intellect or real interest is discussed in a country where schools do not teach you to think. Grunts, groans and chatter like a chipmunk.... Who cares? Why spend the the time and effort to learn Thai? Learn Thai and you can read, Phra Sunthorn Vohara. Phu left behind a legacy of poems that have become famous over time because of their description of Thai history. In 1986, the 200th anniversary of his birth, Phu was honored by UNESCO as a great world poet. His Phra Aphai Mani poems describe a fantastical world, where people of all races and religions live and interact together in harmony. Recently, his literary works have been adapted in various media such as comics, films and songs. Thai cinema's first and only cel-animated cartoon feature film, The Adventure of Sudsakorn (1979), was based on a character from Phra Aphai Mani. It was directed by Payut Ngaokrachang. A live-action version of the tale was made in 2006, titled Legend of Sudsakorn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neeranam Posted March 21, 2014 Author Share Posted March 21, 2014 Most Thai conversation is about gossip or about food. Nothing of intellect or real interest is discussed in a country where schools do not teach you to think. Grunts, groans and chatter like a chipmunk.... Who cares? Why spend the the time and effort to learn Thai? So you don't think it's worth it to learn Thai. How on earth would you know the subject matter of a conversation? Pray tell why you live here, if you are so superior.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Showbags Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 ^^....read Thai poetry....I have found my lifes goal now....thankyou Buddha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Showbags Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Most Thai conversation is about gossip or about food. Nothing of intellect or real interest is discussed in a country where schools do not teach you to think. Grunts, groans and chatter like a chipmunk.... Who cares? Why spend the the time and effort to learn Thai? So you don't think it's worth it to learn Thai. How on earth would you know the subject matter of a conversation? Pray tell why you live here, if you are so superior.. Because we can... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiftyTwo Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 So you don't think it's worth it to learn Thai. How on earth would you know the subject matter of a conversation? Not much interest in chatting about my lunch or how much I spent on xxxxx. Same for their lunch, zero interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
septimus Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Speech to text app does not understand any of my Thai. Sent from my LG-D802 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thailiketoo Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Most Thai conversation is about gossip or about food. Nothing of intellect or real interest is discussed in a country where schools do not teach you to think. Grunts, groans and chatter like a chipmunk.... Who cares? Why spend the the time and effort to learn Thai? I assume you are comparing grade schools in your past and ones currently in Thailand. Try evaluating your post with the critical eye of a cosmopolitan world traveler. The first thing that comes to my mind is how you would be qualified to make a decision about conversation in Thailand? You live on the farm right? You have very little education? The people you converse with daily are the lowest intellectual rank in Thailand. Imagine living in migrant farming camp in America. My wife is a rocket scientist and so are her friends. Last night we discussed; rocket science, politics in Thailand and the world, medicine and crab cooking. I don't think all Thais discuss those things daily but neither do I think Thai communication is limited to grunts, groans and chatter like a chipmunk. That is such a terrible thing to say. Do you realize what an insult it is? I would suggest taking some college courses in Thailand to get an idea what educated Thais talk about. Of course you would have to learn to speak Thai first. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoshowJones Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Anyone who has a go at learning is ok with me. And trying out words is a way to consolidate your learning. I make mistakes all the time and even when I don't I find 50% of Thais don't or won't understand. Last night in a restaurant I spoke to the waiter in Thai. He then looked at the girl who I was with. I said (in Thai), "Don't look at her look at me, I am the one speaking and I am speaking to you in Thai". He suddenly understood everything I said. It is a tough language and Thai's don't seem to be able to extrapolate what you mean unless you are word and tone perfect. So you have to keep making mistakes and it does get better. Especially now I can read and write (badly) the tones are getting better. When I speak Thai to someone, most times they do not understand me. I have a Farang friend who is very fluent in Thai, and when I speak what little Thai I know, he understands every word I say. As for tones, from what I experience, if you do not use the rising or falling tone properly, you will mostly not be understood. If you use a normal tone instead of a high or low tone, you may still be understood as a high tone is not much higher than a normal tone etc. Some people have higher and lower voices than others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thailiketoo Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 When I speak Thai to someone, most times they do not understand me. I have a Farang friend who is very fluent in Thai, and when I speak what little Thai I know, he understands every word I say. As for tones, from what I experience, if you do not use the rising or falling tone properly, you will mostly not be understood. If you use a normal tone instead of a high or low tone, you may still be understood as a high tone is not much higher than a normal tone etc. Some people have higher and lower voices than others. Have you ever seen Thais use sign language and lip reading for the deaf? Do they use tones in sign language? What does one do? Bend your little finger or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoshowJones Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 When I speak Thai to someone, most times they do not understand me. I have a Farang friend who is very fluent in Thai, and when I speak what little Thai I know, he understands every word I say. As for tones, from what I experience, if you do not use the rising or falling tone properly, you will mostly not be understood. If you use a normal tone instead of a high or low tone, you may still be understood as a high tone is not much higher than a normal tone etc. Some people have higher and lower voices than others. Have you ever seen Thais use sign language and lip reading for the deaf? Do they use tones in sign language? What does one do? Bend your little finger or something? Are you not a bit off topic here? I have found out that in previous debates with you, you do not seem to understand what I say to you, I have noticed this in your debates with other posters also. If you are Thai, then I am glad to have you on Thaivisa, and I understand you may have difficulty sometimes in understanding English. If you were a bit more sociable and not so rude at times, then I would be happy to help you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thailiketoo Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 (edited) When I speak Thai to someone, most times they do not understand me. I have a Farang friend who is very fluent in Thai, and when I speak what little Thai I know, he understands every word I say. As for tones, from what I experience, if you do not use the rising or falling tone properly, you will mostly not be understood. If you use a normal tone instead of a high or low tone, you may still be understood as a high tone is not much higher than a normal tone etc. Some people have higher and lower voices than others. Have you ever seen Thais use sign language and lip reading for the deaf? Do they use tones in sign language? What does one do? Bend your little finger or something? Are you not a bit off topic here? I have found out that in previous debates with you, you do not seem to understand what I say to you, I have noticed this in your debates with other posters also. If you are Thai, then I am glad to have you on Thaivisa, and I understand you may have difficulty sometimes in understanding English. If you were a bit more sociable and not so rude at times, then I would be happy to help you. You wrote, "As for tones, from what I experience, if you do not use the rising or falling tone properly, you will mostly not be understood." There are no tones in sign language or lip reading. Thais don't have a problem understanding reading lips or understanding sign language. So why do they have a problem understanding you? Edited March 22, 2014 by thailiketoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat ji Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 (edited) Most Thai conversation is about gossip or about food. Nothing of intellect or real interest is discussed in a country where schools do not teach you to think. Grunts, groans and chatter like a chipmunk.... Who cares? Why spend the the time and effort to learn Thai? Aside from what was already pointed out,... "Nothing of intellect or real interest is discussed in a country where schools do not teach you to think." Do schools in UK or USA teach you to think? I assume your home language is English, and the reference to 'chipmunk' suggests American, but it's somewhat unusual to find persons from UK or USA on internet forums who can spell correctly and who know grammar as well as you do. Perhaps you went to school more than about 20 years ago. Most chat conversation in England seems to be about the weather (how many minutes or hours until it rains again) and football but what is most American conversation about? Football? Politics? Edited March 22, 2014 by Cat ji Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat ji Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Most Thai conversation is about gossip or about food. Nothing of intellect or real interest is discussed in a country where schools do not teach you to think. Grunts, groans and chatter like a chipmunk.... Who cares? Why spend the the time and effort to learn Thai? I don't think all Thais discuss those things daily but neither do I think Thai communication is limited to grunts, groans and chatter like a chipmunk. That is such a terrible thing to say. Do you realize what an insult it is? It's not unusual for English-speaking people to think that non-European languages are "grunts, groans and chatter." Similar to the well-known tendency to think that shouting in English would help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nautilus05 Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 When I speak Thai to someone, most times they do not understand me. I have a Farang friend who is very fluent in Thai, and when I speak what little Thai I know, he understands every word I say. As for tones, from what I experience, if you do not use the rising or falling tone properly, you will mostly not be understood. If you use a normal tone instead of a high or low tone, you may still be understood as a high tone is not much higher than a normal tone etc. Some people have higher and lower voices than others. Have you ever seen Thais use sign language and lip reading for the deaf? Do they use tones in sign language? What does one do? Bend your little finger or something? Huh? That doesn't make any sense. Do you think Thai people sign in Thai, and German people sign in German, or something? Sign language is an internationally recognized language of its own -- there are no tones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thailiketoo Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 When I speak Thai to someone, most times they do not understand me. I have a Farang friend who is very fluent in Thai, and when I speak what little Thai I know, he understands every word I say. As for tones, from what I experience, if you do not use the rising or falling tone properly, you will mostly not be understood. If you use a normal tone instead of a high or low tone, you may still be understood as a high tone is not much higher than a normal tone etc. Some people have higher and lower voices than others. Have you ever seen Thais use sign language and lip reading for the deaf? Do they use tones in sign language? What does one do? Bend your little finger or something? Huh? That doesn't make any sense. Do you think Thai people sign in Thai, and German people sign in German, or something? Sign language is an internationally recognized language of its own -- there are no tones. Lip reading? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoshowJones Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 When I speak Thai to someone, most times they do not understand me. I have a Farang friend who is very fluent in Thai, and when I speak what little Thai I know, he understands every word I say. As for tones, from what I experience, if you do not use the rising or falling tone properly, you will mostly not be understood. If you use a normal tone instead of a high or low tone, you may still be understood as a high tone is not much higher than a normal tone etc. Some people have higher and lower voices than others. Have you ever seen Thais use sign language and lip reading for the deaf? Do they use tones in sign language? What does one do? Bend your little finger or something? Huh? That doesn't make any sense. Do you think Thai people sign in Thai, and German people sign in German, or something? Sign language is an internationally recognized language of its own -- there are no tones. Lip reading? Nautilus05. He does not understand, I am not even going to try with him anymore, it is a waste of time, and there is no excuse for his rudeness. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neeranam Posted March 22, 2014 Author Share Posted March 22, 2014 Anyone who has a go at learning is ok with me. And trying out words is a way to consolidate your learning. I make mistakes all the time and even when I don't I find 50% of Thais don't or won't understand. Last night in a restaurant I spoke to the waiter in Thai. He then looked at the girl who I was with. I said (in Thai), "Don't look at her look at me, I am the one speaking and I am speaking to you in Thai". He suddenly understood everything I said. It is a tough language and Thai's don't seem to be able to extrapolate what you mean unless you are word and tone perfect. So you have to keep making mistakes and it does get better. Especially now I can read and write (badly) the tones are getting better. When I speak Thai to someone, most times they do not understand me. I have a Farang friend who is very fluent in Thai, and when I speak what little Thai I know, he understands every word I say. As for tones, from what I experience, if you do not use the rising or falling tone properly, you will mostly not be understood. If you use a normal tone instead of a high or low tone, you may still be understood as a high tone is not much higher than a normal tone etc. Some people have higher and lower voices than others. The high tone is actually rising too. As for lip reading, I think tones can be worked out. Try saying khao, khao, khao, khao and khao - rice, news, her, white. enter. Sorry but warned for writing Thai. The shape of the lips is different for each word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses G. Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 When I speak Thai to someone, most times they do not understand me. I have a Farang friend who is very fluent in Thai, and when I speak what little Thai I know, he understands every word I say. It is a lot easier for someone who speaks the same language that you do to understand mangled Thai. They probably made the same mistakes as you do before they studied and practiced the language enough to make themselves understood by native speakers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thailiketoo Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Have you ever seen Thais use sign language and lip reading for the deaf? Do they use tones in sign language? What does one do? Bend your little finger or something? Huh? That doesn't make any sense. Do you think Thai people sign in Thai, and German people sign in German, or something? Sign language is an internationally recognized language of its own -- there are no tones. Lip reading? Nautilus05. He does not understand, I am not even going to try with him anymore, it is a waste of time, and there is no excuse for his rudeness. One example of me being rude? Just one? Tones are not that important. You must be doing something else wrong that they don't understand you. That was my point. If you can speak enough Thai they will figure out what you mean by the context. Back to the rude remark. Quote one please. Not agreeing with you is not rudeness BTW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoshowJones Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 What does "bend my little finger" mean? Is that not being rude? Also, what does lip reading have to do with speaking Thai? If you were able to understand my posts, you would know that I accept TV members not agreeing with me. Now, if you would answer my first sentence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thailiketoo Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 What does "bend my little finger" mean? Is that not being rude? Also, what does lip reading have to do with speaking Thai? If you were able to understand my posts, you would know that I accept TV members not agreeing with me. Now, if you would answer my first sentence. It is not being rude at all. Sign language is done by fingers. I was trying to get across the point that there are no tones in sign language. No bending of a little finger or other movement to signify a high or low or no tone. It is impossible to lip read tones. Hence a deaf lip reading Thai can understand a word by the shape or your mouth and don't need to hear a tone. I hope this explains it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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