What has Thailand become?

[Skeetjones]

^ remember this is the guy that beats up his wife/gf....

That's not nice. Stop with the cyber bullying please.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[anotheruser]

It is just you. Remember Black May? Thailand was just as screwy and corrupt 20 years ago - there was coup after coup and Thai citizens were attacked by the government. However, I loved the place then and I love it now, even if there are plenty of bad apples. There always has been.

Agreed, I have been coming to Thailand for 27 years and live here now more than 10 years.

Yes, countries/peoples attitudes changes somewhat,

but the major change is the technology, news infra-structure.

All is almost immediately out there.

People hear and see more (daily) things happening and see how the (civilized) western world lives (and upper class Thais).

People get more envy and want the same lifestyle.

Honest jobs will not give that for most, so some use other methods, which we hear daily in the news.

I also think that in the more farang area's in Thailand, many Thais are envy and angry.

Daily they see farangs spend money in bars and such 3000-5000-10.000 baht in one day/evening, which is their monthly salary.

Thailand is not the same of course from 20 years ago, but not as the OP says, all is more in the open.

20 years ago there was no ThaiVisa to report daily news/events or internet (worth while)

Pattaya used to be what you say now it is crawling with poor white tourists that buy food and drink at 7/11. I think the Thais feel sorry for the poor drunk white folk who swim in such bad water and can only afford to eat and drink at convenience stores.

In Bangkok the Thais look at the families dressed in black robes and the other ones with the colored turbans and thank their lucky stars they are Thai.

I do not think the Thais feel any great amount of sympathy for anybody but those in their immediate circle. They don't feel anymore sorry for the Farang at 7-11 than the limbless beggar on the street that they walk by without noticing.

[Showbags]

^ remember this is the guy that beats up his wife/gf....

That's not nice. Stop with the cyber bullying please.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

..... funny guy.

[10Yen]

Why I do not worry too much about what Thailand has or has not become:

Don't own property. Don't own a house. Not married. No children for whom I am legally responsible. Don't own a business. Not employed. Don't go to a shared work space and say I'm not working. Don't live in a tourist area. Don't much hang out with persons who speak or speak only English. Don't own a car. Don't frequent bars at 2 AM. ...

Keep your bag packed, Passport and plane ticket in your pocket, never leave the airport concourse, don't have a life. Yep I love Thailand!!!

I've been living in Thailand 10 years now for better or worse but I would say mostly better ... but now I get to read about all the people with great lives in Thailand in the 'Ask The Lawyer' Forum

And you still stay here, by choice....

[kannot]

It is just you. Remember Black May? Thailand was just as screwy and corrupt 20 years ago - there was coup after coup and Thai citizens were attacked by the government. However, I loved the place then and I love it now, even if there are plenty of bad apples. There always has been.

Agreed, I have been coming to Thailand for 27 years and live here now more than 10 years.

Yes, countries/peoples attitudes changes somewhat,

but the major change is the technology, news infra-structure.

All is almost immediately out there.

People hear and see more (daily) things happening and see how the (civilized) western world lives (and upper class Thais).

People get more envy and want the same lifestyle.

Honest jobs will not give that for most, so some use other methods, which we hear daily in the news.

I also think that in the more farang area's in Thailand, many Thais are envy and angry.

Daily they see farangs spend money in bars and such 3000-5000-10.000 baht in one day/evening, which is their monthly salary.

Thailand is not the same of course from 20 years ago, but not as the OP says, all is more in the open.

20 years ago there was no ThaiVisa to report daily news/events or internet (worth while)

I think you have a point about the envy and hatred of foreigners, but.....

They don't seem to be upset at the Thais driving Ferraris, killing cops with them and getting off scot free etc.

Nor do they seem to be upset at so many rich families with 10 cars who pay a team of servants 5k a month to clean and cook 12 hours a day......etc....etc

and the kicker.....most (except the elite anti govt protesters) don't seem to care about a fascist tyrant bilking the country for all its worth.....

5k a month??? blimey you need to get up to speed on "staff salaries" thats for sure

[JLCrab]

I don't stay here in Thailand by choice -- I held here under duress by multiple females.

[10Yen]

I don't stay here in Thailand by choice -- I held here under duress by multiple females.

Yeah right...........

[JLCrab]

I don't stay here in Thailand by choice -- I held here under duress by multiple females.

Yeah right...........

They are trained to kill any scumbag who enters my property.

[northernjohn]

The silence from some quarters is deafening. Change is sometimes painful, and sometimes slow. But for sure it's happening.

Bad as it looks it is changing for the better.

Now that it is as much in the open and the grass roots people who have been silent for years are starting to complain no government will be able to continue down the corruption path set by the Shinawatra's.

The funny part is not even they can continue with it at the pace they have set. It has just been to much in your face you don't count so shut up and hand over your money.

[northernjohn]

'thailiketoo' ... we've had a bit of a run in before; you've challenged someone else (re formalin on food) and retracted ...

So just how is a comparative done?

Do you have *empirical data that supports any of the nonsense you espouse?

*[ research methodologies containing qualitative and quantitative data? ]

In one forum you defend Thailand and here you condemn me for making a comparative to other countries and someone else provided a link to the UK ... is is just that you are a Yank and can't stand seeing anyone point out one of the multitude of many wrongs with the US of A?

Daniel Boon wrote, "well I can't comment about Thailand, but the rot in the USA and Australia has well and truly set in."

That is a comparative or comment about Australia and/or America not Thailand. This is a Thai forum if you want to compare two things one of them should be about Thailand.

Compare them to no one. This is Thailand and idiotic comparisons are just that idiotic.

Deal with Thailand here. Right or wrong. It is what it is no matter what other countries are.

Or better yet start another thread comparing Thailand to Somalia or Afghanistan.

[northernjohn]

I was in Thailand in 1985 when a reporter was killed during a coup attempt. It seemed there were monks injured then too, no? When I flew back and forth for work in the 80's it was common knowledge that you would bring bribes, usually in the form of goods of some sort, for the station manager so you wouldn't get bumped on full flights. Bribes were common in a lot of other transactions as well, but were called gifts. Is the idea that greed/corruption is present really new, or has the honeymoon period just worn off for you?

Are you trying to say Thailand is much better now.

Your opinion only of course.

[ABCer]

I don't think Thailand 'has become' what it is.

I'm sure it always 'was what it is'.

The only things that changed might be Media (des)information or your perception. Maybe both?

[Scarpolo]

Why I do not worry too much about what Thailand has or has not become:

Don't own property. Don't own a house. Not married. No children for whom I am legally responsible. Don't own a business. Not employed. Don't go to a shared work space and say I'm not working. Don't live in a tourist area. Don't much hang out with persons who speak or speak only English. Don't own a car. Don't frequent bars at 2 AM. ...

thats the life I was striving for

[jacksam]

Who cares SCARPOLO your in USA . look above at all these posts. <deleted> writing 2000word essays to massage their egos. Fact is I'm on the beach on 3G drinking piss and your missing the Thai squize while you contemplate your next self indulgent info to members about your next trip. Go to work tomorrow and get a DVD on way home. Just give zillion posts to forums a break

[Scarpolo]

Who cares SCARPOLO your in USA . look above at all these posts. <deleted> writing 2000word essays to massage their egos. Fact is I'm on the beach on 3G drinking piss and your missing the Thai squize while you contemplate your next self indulgent info to members about your next trip. Go to work tomorrow and get a DVD on way home. Just give zillion posts to forums a break

was building up my post count for street cred on other more serious boards where I may actually learn things of value and interest,

and I am looking for reasons to return,

having a browser open whilst doing other things makes it appear heavier to some.

I like your idea of spending the day,

if this is at Hua Hin, it will surely be a place to get to know,

if it is just a "decent" spot in thailand, but still has all the downside, it may sound great, but not

Edited April 10, 2014 by Scarpolo

[Gumballl]

Why I do not worry too much about what Thailand has or has not become:

Don't own property. Don't own a house. Not married. No children for whom I am legally responsible. Don't own a business. Not employed. Don't go to a shared work space and say I'm not working. Don't live in a tourist area. Don't much hang out with persons who speak or speak only English. Don't own a car. Don't frequent bars at 2 AM. ...

Keep your bag packed, Passport and plane ticket in your pocket, never leave the airport concourse, don't have a life. Yep I love Thailand!!!

I've been living in Thailand 10 years now for better or worse but I would say mostly better ... but now I get to read about all the people with great lives in Thailand in the 'Ask The Lawyer' Forum

One has to wonder what the heck are you doing in Thailand... especially considering you've been here 10 years, and you don't seem to have any motivational factor that keeps you here. What do you do all day... chase tail?

[JLCrab]

What do I do all day? Plenty .. just none of the above.

[Donnie Brasco]

_{I believe that Thailand has become victimized by images of lollipops and sugarcanes in NeverNeverland, victim to the siren call of democracies, beckoning as did the ancient sirens to the Greek mythological figures, calling them to abandon their core beliefs and swim to the promises of unlimited prosperity. The truth is somewhere hidden from the view of everyone: politicians, businessmen and the general public; that these dreams are dreams projected on your society by governments with political motivations, who use trade and free markets as a political tool. Yet while so much is know, it becomes even more disconcerting to see such a society as Thailand attempt to imitate, inaccurately, democratic institutions and beliefs which took hundreds of years to develop and refine. It wasn't just the laws--it was an acquiescent people, it was an age of industrialization, it was the call for wider civil rights and social welfare which finally resulted in an economy with little future in the way of expansion.}

_{Likewise, it is the overburdening of the state and the expectations of a people, already deluded by the siren calls of democracies around the world, to adopt a form of government which sounds like a panacea for all social ills, but actually is in the process of delivering a knock-out blow to the entire country in a way that few enemies could, by creating a consumption oriented economy rather than a savings oriented economy. In this environment, what is the future of Buddhism? There is no future for Buddhism because the THai people ultimately reject}

_{non-materialism and the respect for people that the Buddhist customs engendered.}

_{It is very dangerous for the THai people to stray past their core belief systems; they are not easily replaced in a day or a week or a year or 20 years--ultimately there will be a huge price to pay as farmers abandon their land in desperation and greed, looking for a wealth which only people in the cities enjoy. And in the end they will have neither farm not wealth, but become, inexorably, the "urban prolectariat".}

Let this pack of narcissistic group activity addicts play around in their sandbox for a few more years.

China (that's CHINA . . . . as in Han Chinese guys from Beijing) will give these core beliefs a sweet little your around the dance floor soon enough. The four-lane highway from Luang Nam Tha (on the China/Lao) border down to the Mekong (whose water levels the Han control with three massive "power projects".

The Thais have already had a go with the Panda

There's food here.

China needs food.

China will help out. ;-)

Listen for complaints about farm efficiency first.

It's an efficiency" that Thais do not really need.

Thailand's built-in food distribution network serves the Thais well.

Time will come (and soon) when local distribution will not be so important.

Tibet never even got a Panda.

CHINA

Twenty years is nothing.

CHINA

"Sometimes, 'fuggedabowdit' just means fuggedabowdit. . . . "

[laolover88]

This is an odd question. Thailand is what it; its history, its people its present its future. It is by far and away not the only country trying to manage changes in the global structure of trade, finance, greed, unemployment.

It seems that your perspective depends very much on where you live or where you go. I suppose if you live in Pattaya, Phuket, Samui, Chiang Mai you will have seen some quite striking changes in the composition of the tourist industry; at least in terms of the origins of tourists. However I live and have lived in places where most people do not depend on the tourist industry, have no interest in it. They have been able to raise their standard of living quite substantially over 20 years. There are considerable numbers of aspirant and socially mobile people whose concern is no longer to get to Bangkok to get work, but to build lives in provincial cities and the countryside. They are buying houses and cars; they want their kids education improved; and many of them have built strong local family businesses. They are not even much interested in the Shinawatra/Suthep conflict: a Bangkok problem. Unlike the UK, where the neglect by London of huge swathes of the country, there are strong regional economies. The tourist centres are ghettoes. Thais I know like to go to Chiang Mai for the products, the countryside, the mountains, the temples. Suggesting a visit to Pattaya is like suggesting a trip to Margate or Skegness. No-one I know has any desire to go.

I find most encounters with offialdom, nowadays, are civilised, computerised, easy and efficient; hardly like the UK, France or the US, where capriciousness, bureaucracy and an aggressive obstinacy appear the preferred attitudes.

[coconutbar]

Thailand has changed a lot but you are obviously a newbie if you think Political violence in bkk a new thing

[laolover88]

Thailand has changed a lot but you are obviously a newbie if you think Political violence in bkk a new thing

What's that supposed to mean? Politically and economically inspired violence has been a major factor in the development of all countries and civilisations. Thailand has an unpleasant history of violence by the military, the police and 'plutocrats' against minorities, dissidents, democrats, foreigners and particularly poor Thai residents. But it hardly stands out from the crowd!

[Wan123]

Thailand might be a country that is misunderstood from a Western perspective. While the Thais attempt to become Western in attitude, the materialism which is part of economic growth, it in fact, spiritual poison. Old countries which gave birth to modern religions such as Rome, Bangkok, etc., all see the same phenomenon with their ethnic genus: the people stray from religious lives and become materialists, as the US government wants. They want a culture in which productivity is rewarded with the opportunity to make life better, by supplying the needs and wants of the public. As the suppliers of goods and services grow in wealth, they become politically powerful. That is modern civilization.

As for the military, I'm sure they have shortcomings, but they keep Thailand together! They keep it moving forward, as it must, because if everyone throws their hands in the air and wants "democracy" so to speak, in fact the country will fail! The country must move forward economically to create better lives for its people, which are already pretty good by the way; otherwise, what in fact happens is that people who are complaining have even less, and then they don't care about politics, they just want food, clothing and shelter.

[Showbags]

Don't Thai to me.

It has become a legend

[benalibina]

From a foreign point of view.......people had, or still have, high hopes that the military take over would really bring a, quick??, change to Thailand.

However of what i have read about it, it will happen far from quickly. The choice has to be made between these 2.

I question if the present in power are already that far or, to state it more positive, if they see the thai populace ready for it at present.

[Thai at Heart]

Pattaya used to be what you say now it is crawling with poor white tourists that buy food and drink at 7/11. I think the Thais feel sorry for the poor drunk white folk who swim in such bad water and can only afford to eat and drink at convenience stores.

Pretty silly for such poor foreigners to think that convenience stores are a cheap way to eat. For myself, I find them completely unaffordable.

I just don't see a future for my kids if they had gone through the Thai system even if they had had international school.

Too much nepotism and corruption. Sad really

The true international schools (maybe a dozen?) have nothing at all to do with any "Thai system" other than a few window-dressing MoE requirements.

And there is no reason for your kids to have much contact at all with Thai society at the level you're complaining about unless you choose to structure your/their lives that way.

But since such a lifestyle is far more expensive here than it would be back home, I certainly agree that parents of young children should head back home to raise them there.

But there are fundamental values that have to be learnt which I fear will be passed over in Thailand.

Fundamental honesty and fair play is important to me and I want my kids to have it. My sons best friend father is absolutely loaded. He's a nice kid.

His old man has the contract to supply equipment and labour to do maintenance for tessaban. Nice guy, but his business is so dirty its beyond.

I have seen and dealt with too many dirty deals and people over the yearsz.god forbid what it could be like for a kid growing up 100% in Thailand.

[geronimo]

As you so rightly point out, every country is in the process of change. Indeed the entire universe is constantly changing. Corruption has grown to become a huge beast here and up until the last coup, I would have said there is nothing to change that. I now believe that the new PM has the ability (and the know how) to put LOS back on track. It will take time but the signs are that this is a serious attempt to right many wrongs here.

[n210mp]

Why I do not worry too much about what Thailand has or has not become:

Edited October 5, 2014 by n210mp

[Thai at Heart]

Thailand is no doubt better in many ways than it used to be, and in some ways worse. I think this is part of the development process of a country. It is still regarded, technically I believe, as a Third World country, but I would dispute this. It is a 'Second World' country. I don't think it ever had Third World status actually, in the way that some African and other nations do, but it has yet to pass fully into the economic and governmental realms of those that we generally class as 'First World',. Sadly, as it does, it will become a victim of some of the bad things that most of Europe and the U.S.A suffer from.... a different kind of corruptness, less consideration for each other, material greed. Most of the so-called developed countries have suffered from a decline in morality, religion has lost sway and the rich get richer while the poor get poorer. I am heartened though, by the work ethic I have seen among many Thais. Most work hard because they have to, but I have found them, generally, to be a cheerful and friendly race. I have met wealthy and poor and been treated well by all. Of course, I have met spiv taxi drivers in Bangkok, just as I have in London. I have met pushy traders - I ignore them. As a race, the Thais are as good as any on earth and better than many. It will be a few years yet before corruption is reduced and before democracy, as it should be, is fully understood and properly wielded. Until then, as a farang, I will continue to try to treat them as I would my own countrymen; with patience, kindness, fairness and, as far as I can, understanding. I ask everyone to do the same, then Thailand can be a great country for both the Thais and farang..

There is a strange point about Thailand. Where some countries in the last 20 years roared into first world status like S Korea. There appears an element in Thailand who actually seem to like it the way it is.

These are the apologists, the rose tinted glasses, the TITers, the yellow shirts, the resistors to change. The thainess advocates.

What they fail to see is that if Thailand doesn't go forward, it will go backwards. If things like corruption don't actively reduce, they inevitably increase.

This is the issue in Thailand today. Does it really want progress, or is it happy sitting in a second world limbo? Because if it doesn't jump to 1st, its likely to slip to 3rd world.

[Digitalnomade]

Problem is not corruption, main problem is capitalism coming from Europe & USA. This infection is infecting all new generations thinking they can get what they want immediately.

This is why millions of iPhone 6 have been sold in 2 days.

It s this consumerism attitude that bring everybody down and pushes corruption up.

Edited October 5, 2014 by Digitalnomade

[Thai at Heart]

Problem is not corruption, main problem is capitalism coming from Europe & USA. This infection is infecting all new generations thinking they can get what they want immediately.

This is why millions of iPhone 6 have been sold in 2 days.

It s this consumerism attitude that bring everybody down and pushes corruption up.

Oh my lord. A digital nomad possibly making a living from all the wonderful tech developed by the evil capitalist machine. Moaning abput it