Shocking use of violence and force on my Norwegian son and Thai students at Thai primary school

lucifer666 · March 29, 2014

If that was my child, then i'm afraid that the teacher in question would now be getting fed on drip, in hospital !

john fogerty · March 29, 2014

It's not only teachers who slap kids in Thai schools. My daughter has a monk who comes in from time to time to teach Thai and he also slaps the kids if they get things wrong. I thought Buddhism and monks were all about being good and peaceloving. But maybe I've just led a very sheltered life???

oneday · March 29, 2014

I haven't read all the responses here so I may be repeating what others have said, but this is my advice. First of all, you need to speak with the mother and really and truly understand where she stands on this issue. If she is perfectly OK with what is happening to your son then she is not going to take him out of that school and you have a very big decision to make. You could end up in a situation one day when your son is visiting his mother where they deny you access to your son FOREVER!

If you think this could happen then you need to see if your son is OK with him living with you in Norway until he is 18 and finished with school and never go back to Thailand. This is the only way you can protect him and give him a good education. Any legal battles that arise will take a long time to resolve and your son will be protected that much longer. Thailand is 100% biased in favor of its citizens as well as being a third world backward country when it comes to the "rule of law" and "what's right" and a falang can never expect justice. A Luk Krueng (half-Thai) is not Thai until they want him to be Thai for their own selfish purposes.

Once you are in Thailand and if the mother and family try to keep him from you I think your son will be lost to you. I seriously doubt any Thai court will award you custody of your son and while any battle is going on your son will still be in that school.

RBOP · March 29, 2014

For a short work stent in KL sent our daughter to a private Montessori school. Now they are strict and my daughter now 12 who was 7 at the time still tells me how cruel they were.

buck99 · March 29, 2014

So if I don't like your post, is it ok for me to come over and slap you around with a stick?? Of course not! Why then is it ok for a grown teacher to physically abuse a defenseless child? I don't understand your thinking.

mikemac · March 29, 2014

My boy has not started school yet but when he does all the teachers in that school will be told not to hit him unless they want to spend some time looking at a hospital room ceiling. If he does something wrong I want to be told about it, do not want him coming home black and blue and traumatized.

Congrats to the op in the way he is handling this situation and best wishes to him and his brave young son.

crazykopite · March 29, 2014

There are some cruel people in this world it sounds very much that you could be one of them there are many ways to chastise a child beating them is not one of them.

mikemac · March 29, 2014

100% pure redneck-speak ! Yee-Ha !

bekken · March 29, 2014

My wifes boy is now at his second public Thai school in Pattaya. In both teachers hit. Like someone wrote, you have to tell the teacher not to abuse/hit. The boy and I was home playing when he just started to talk about how he manage to fool the teacher not to hit him, I was shocked. Next day I took him to school and I told the teacher that if you hurt my boy then I'll hurt you, it still stays, no hitting.

Then I am sorry to say but Thai only know one way of correction, anger and violence, this you see everywhere on the Streets, markets, malls, beaches.

bekken · March 29, 2014

Which school, which city?

sirchai · March 29, 2014

I'm sorry, didn't have the time to read all the posts.

I'm pretty sure that this post took you hours to write. But you had no time to go and see the school's superiors.

I'm in my tenth year teaching and this is the way Thai teachers act here.

If I were you, I'd write a letter, translate it into three languages and show them that nobody hits my child. You don't need a freaking lawyer to do so.

Just tell them you'll hit the teacher(s) if that happens again. Believe me, it works well.

mikemac · March 29, 2014

I spent some time in Catholic schools in Australia, the worst years of my life. Will never forget the cruel ways of the teachers, especially the nuns.

Absolutely no excuse for this barbaric behavior.

Lostpack3t · March 29, 2014

Here in Pattaya last year a Thai girl about 5 years old was hit repeatedly with a metal ruler around her head by her teacher at a local thai school. She required hospital treatment for cuts to her scalp.

Her mother reported the incident with police who followed up with the teacher and the head of the school. It got some air time on tv here.

As far as I'm aware the teacher was not charged even with all the media attention. A small campaign was organised to include handing out flyers to children and setting up a Facebook page however it never gained any traction. Thai's seem to acknowledge this behaviour is wrong however do not see an alternative or simply do not want to accept change.

As other posters have said I think you will have great difficulty seeking a meaningful response from the school. Such behaviour is ingrained into the Thai culture. Thank goodness my kids go to an international school. If my kids were abused in a Thai school all of you would be reading on TV the next news headline "Out of control farang goes crazy at Thai school and assaults teachers, headmaster. .."

sirchai · March 29, 2014

One of my hobbies is to brake the goddamned Bamboo sticks right in front of the kids. Then they look at me and think I'll be the next who gets hit.

But if someone did that to my son, I'd go and hit her/him. My old neighborhood consisted of some Kathoey/gay teachers. They usually brought some 14 year old to their house at lunch, abused them and they acted that nothing was wrong.

That gave me a hard time with my wife, as I wanted to make a movie and show it to the cops. But would they really listen to me?

P.S. The director of a well-known high school in Sisaket was gay and always abused some male students in his palace like office.

All people and I mean all knew that, but nobody made something.

Edited March 29, 2014 by sirchai

Loles · March 29, 2014

crazy dog

Amaxster · March 29, 2014

Take the ruler/stick off the <deleted> and beat them with it ....

When they are black and blue ask them if they have learned anything from the experience? Chances are they have not, but by their own reasoning that just means you should be hitting them harder.

For bonus points do it in the staff room where they are left exposed and crying in front of their peers - sounds horrid? But this is what they are willing to do to a child!

I know already I will need to take my child back to the UK for schooling when he's old enough, I doubt very much that he would get through from kindergarten to university over here without me killing some idiot on a power trip who has the audacity to call themselves a teacher!

Zodaka · March 29, 2014

I am wondering why after attending an international kindergarten,etc that the writer would then let his kid go to an upcountry Thai school? Even without the bullying by teachers and kids, I wouldn't have thought its a great idea for a half foreign looking kid. Thai children like elsewhere can be very cruel to a different looking children. I've heard of the stick hitting thing before in village schools. I think it used to be fairly common and perhaps I'm wrong after reading the above but thought that there had been an effort to stop it. You probably need a psychiatrists or psychologists report. Thail courts usually only recognizes for legal purposes the former as most psychologists are not properly qualified. If you had this perhaps you won't need to rely on the mother who may not care to participate for various reasons. You can also lodge a complaint with the child protection agencies, both government and private. I am not sure about the education system her. I've only heard of people complaining with the Ministry of Education but don't know if this is ever fruitful. A local MP was asked to help once but given how raciest Thais are and the current political situation they might not think it would help their popularity much if helping a foreign looking boy. I hope you succeed in getting something done. What would your aim be though? To fire the teachers? School bullying by teachers and kids can indeedn be highly traumatizing.

ThaiTbone · March 29, 2014

I think you will light a fire in the "Family and childrens" section if violent punishment seen in these videos is your choice of dicipline. Hard to believe someone having kids suporting this, so I assume you dont have any kids living with you.

connda · March 29, 2014

Advice? Keep him in Norway and find him a therapist (poor little fellow).

Edited March 29, 2014 by connda

SanukJoeII · March 29, 2014

I am struggling with the same issue in my rural Isan village school. To address the OP and some illiterate posters a few points:

1. It happens in all schools, government, private, catholic. Even private schools sometimes make a clause in the contract that parents leave it up to the teachers

2. Thai society does not care about it. Many times I complained to parents, they say: oh they did it to me too, so no problem

3. Hitting a child (causing pain) is CHILD ABUSE!!! That is the law. So it makes it a criminal act, teachers should be suspended during investigation by police and their license sould be revoked. Needless to say that this never happens in a society where even rapists get away with a 60K payment to the girl's family

4. In 2003 a Thai law was introduced against hitting students by teachers. It was not allowed anymore. Schools reacted by letting parents sign that they had no problem with it

5. In 2005 an extended law came into force to tackle the problem of 4. It says that NO TEACHER IS ALLOWED TO TOUCH A STUDENT!!

Read that please, no touching! That would end hitting, but also sexually related touchings by teachers, not to speak of 25% of all sexual assaults on female students come from teachers.... The law also forbid to have agreements with parents that go against the law.

So to the OP: I'm afraid there is not a lot to do here, complaining to the school, to the police, to the amphoe or provincial education authorities makes no sense. One thing would give a tiny little hope: write to the MInistry (by a lawyer as you stated) plus to the OBEC (Office of Basic Education Commission), the latter being the office involved in improvement of education in rural areas.

I quote from the Ministry/OBEC an assessment of schools:

Quote: Furthermore, the second phase of external quality assessment (2006-2008) of 20,373 schools under the jurisdiction of the Office of Basic Education Commission (OBEC) revealed that 4,566 schools (22.41%) failed to meet recognized standards. For the most part these were smaller schools located in the remote rural areas. The main reasons cited were:

· Academic performance in all subject groups was low (Standard 5).

· Learners had not developed adequate critical thinking skills and had poor analytical skills (Standard 4).

· Learners had low motivation to acquire knowledge and had not developed a good reading habit (Standard 6).

· Teacher ability and overall quality of teachers (Standard 9).

· Teacher qualifications and knowledge areas unrelated to actual subjects taught (Standard 8) and teachers spend too much time performing administrative tasks which impacts on overall learning quality. /quote

No critical thinking due to being hit when not knowing an answer. They learn to remember answers, not how to find them.

Low motivation. It has been proven that punished students lose more motivation than others.

Teacher ability, quality, knowledge..... here lies the problem of the schools. And as those teachers cannot teach properly they use punishments to intimidate students.

It is sick, this way of education, I fight alone in my village, nobody cares, my daughter of 11 is told by me to report any abuse, as in that case I will follow the second instinct after talking: hit the teacher the way they hit my daughter. It might help but is not in the interest of my daughter, so up until now I have accepted things and just grinding my teeth.

OP, if you need more info, PM me, also if you manage to do some steps into higher euthorities, please let me know.

Edited March 29, 2014 by SanukJoeII

ThaiTbone · March 29, 2014

I have no issues with her mother or his family trying to keep him away from me. Its rather the opposite. And we are not going to Khamphaeng Phet. He is happy to go back on a two weeks holiday. I just had to assure him we will not go where he lived. Only Bangkok and Phuket to see all of our other freinds who he loves.

Edited March 29, 2014 by ThaiTbone

zoroastra999 · March 29, 2014

There is an important lesson to be drawn from this experience. Don't look at the particular school, or the individual teachers - they are just extreme cases within a corrupt institution. Read this book before you do anything:

http://www.2shared.com/document/UqMvgGob/27806948-Dumbing-Us-Down-by-Jo.html

I hope this helps.

ThaiTbone · March 29, 2014

That is exactly what my kid has asked me why they dont dont do as this is how he and other kids was diciplined in the kindergarden in Phuket and Norway.

kennypowers · March 29, 2014

There's a feature here on TV that allows you to ask a lawyer questions. I would ask what your grounds are to take action and how much this would cost. If you are well-off you will win and get the necessary media exposure to send a stark warning to any school carrying out such cruel punishment. I wish your son all the best and hope he can get past this horrible experience.

Krataiboy · March 29, 2014

Corporal punishment was banned in ALL Thai schools, by law, years ago. I learned this from a Web search after my stepson had been thrashed by a teacher at his Cha Am secondary school. The boy hadn't actually don't anything wrong, but took the blame for a friend who threw a scrap of lighted paper in class.

My Thai wife backed me in deciding to take action. She accompanied me to the school, where we confronted the male teacher concerned and the headmaster in his study. I don't speak much Thai, so my wife tried to explain why we upset. Both the offending teacher and the headmaster seemed to think it was a bit of a joke.

After putting up with smirking and constant scornful interruptions for a while, I broke in and showed them a copy of the actual law ending corporal punishment. "Read this," I said.

Their attitude changed dramatically thereafter and, at my insistence, the teacher grudgingly apologised and undertook not repeat the offence. I felt the point needed underlining.. On a shelf under the table where we sat I noticed a bamboo cane. I picked it up and brandished it in the teacher's direction.

"If you lay so much as a finger on our boy again, I shall come the school and thrash you with this cane in front of your pupils," I told him. I meant it, old and relatively frail as I am - and I think he knew it.

We had no problems from then on, although I must admit I spent a few weeks looking apprehensively over my shoulder for possible retribution. I have been in Thailand long enough to know how dangerous it can be to cause a Thai person to lose face, but I felt we had to make a stand. If only more falang and Thai parents would do the same.

I suggest you do worse than follow our example, confront the headteacher, make it clear that you will not tolerate bullying either by the staff or other pupils, Show them you know the law and that, if necessary, you will invoke it in a Thai court and invite the media to publicise your grievances.

Your wife, I fear, has been conditioned by Thai culture to accept bullying by teachers and other pupils as normal behavior. Her understandable reluctance to become involved should not inhibit you from pursuing the priority of saving your son from further abuse.

gamini · March 29, 2014

Your kids treatment at school is nothing compared what I suffered at a boarding school just after the war in England. Five years of terrible beatings and bullying plus unedible food and no heating in winter. I still have nightmares about it. But it made strong and able to stand up for myself and did me a lot of good.

Thai at Heart · March 29, 2014

What the OP describes is abuse. A world of difference from.disciplining a child. I see these upstanding kids hanging out on street corners and causing problems every day in schools.

There is a place for punishment in children's upbringing. What the OP describes here is abuse.

ThaiTbone · March 29, 2014

Thanks for a very informative post. Living in Norway and I have no hope to get these teachers fired or expect something to be done quickly at this school. And really living here or there and I think I would fight this matter all alone without any support in the village.

To others who wonder why he was not put in an international school like he was attending before is a another story. This was a temporary solution and not about economy. He is back living with me now in Norway.

Why I want to write a letter to higher educational authorities is because a 1000 letters is better than none. There is a reason for why new laws was implicated in 2003 and 2005 as SanukJoel says... I guess this matter was constantly brought up and they had to do something about it for various reasons. So if the work continues, then one day violent dicipline could belong to the past in Thailand

Edited March 29, 2014 by ThaiTbone

im fine and you · March 29, 2014

you're wasting your time.

corporal punishment is common in gov schools,

seen it firsthand, thai kids know and expect it, sometimes its at an acceptable level, sometimes brutal.

whether you agree or want to call in the hague

wont change a thing

paulrobertlane · March 29, 2014

The law is relatively simple and it is actually quite strong (in its wording, not in implementation).

Corporal punishment of ANY form is illegal in ALL Thai schools.

The parental opt in, where parents could give writen permission to allow it was removed in 2005.

The problems are three fold.

1. Few teachers and directors know the law, especially that the parental opt in was removed. We constantly see these clauses given as excuse despite the fact they have NO legal basis.

2. Thai parents turn a blind eye and when they do complain get bought off so it goes no further.

3. The law is simply not administered. Even complains to the police rarely produce any action. The law states "any school employee who hits a student should be immediately dismissed and their teaching license reviewed". This NEVER seems to happen even after police intervention.

What to do if it happens

Go to the school and point out that they are committing a criminal offence (the law states it is the criminal act of assault). If they laugh it off show them a copy of the law. If that does not work either threaten to, or actually do, take the case to the local Education Court (there is one in each Amphur i believe). Providing there is evidence the courts usually impose a fine of six months salary on the teacher - that hurts them. On the odd occasion we have seen jail sentences imposed but these are almost always suspended. Unfortunately they cannot take action against the schools or school principals due to it being an criminal assault charge and that charge can only be made against the person directly responsible for the assault. Many school directors are aware of this so seem happy for teachers to carry on regardless as they know they cannot be touched.

Edited March 29, 2014 by paulrobertlane

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