EEA FP and benefits

[r4b]

Hi, after doing some research on the EEA FP I was wondering if anybody knows or has any kind of knowledge in regards to the husband/wife/partner/parent who is living in the uk and being in receipt of benefits having any baring on the outcome of the EEA FP application.

Basically i am in the uk. I am on Disability and related benefits and hoping to find out if it would effect my wife from being able to join me on an EEA FP .

many thanks.

[beano2274]

Where are you from?

[r4b]

Where are you from?

N.Ireland.

[beano2274]

thought NI was part of the UK?

EEA permit is for people not from the UK for example, who are living there.

My wife used this means to stay in Germany with me, am from the UK.

[r4b]

thought NI was part of the UK?

EEA permit is for people not from the UK for example, who are living there.

My wife used this means to stay in Germany with me, am from the UK.

Being from N.Ireland and born here i have a right to an Irish passport so i will apply for it. Then i can always have the possiblity to renounce my British Citizenship and hand back my British passport.

[beano2274]

Aha then read this as if you are on disability allowance it seems you do not quality

Your EEA family member must be working, a jobseeker, self-employed, studying, self-sufficient or have a permanent right of residence.

taken from here

https://www.gov.uk/family-permit

Also if you give up your British Citizenship what happens to all those benefits you are on?

[r4b]

Aha then read this as if you are on disability allowance it seems you do not quality

Your EEA family member must be working, a jobseeker, self-employed, studying, self-sufficient or have a permanent right of residence.

taken from here

https://www.gov.uk/family-permit

Also if you give up your British Citizenship what happens to all those benefits you are on?

N.Ireland is different from any other place. I was born in N.ireland. My family where born here, My children born here so i would have exactly the same rights as anyone British. Nothing changes only the fact i no longer am a British subject i guess. Half our country hold Irish passports or both Irish and british. My guess would be i would fall under the permanent right of residence would it not im not sure but i will find out of course all i need to know before i make any choice. Also i dont think it is hard to become a student. ie open university, technical college etc.

Edited March 28, 2014 by r4b

[beano2274]

Same rights as British people so should have the same visa rights as British guys bringing their Thai wives to the UK. So no EEA Permit

These people are members of the EEA when applying for their wife to come to the UK

Members of the European Economic Area (EEA) include nationals from the following: Don't see Northern Ireland there!!

• Austria
• Belgium
• Bulgaria
• Cyprus
• Czech Republic
• Denmark
• Finland
• France
• Germany
• Greece
• Hungary
• Iceland
• Irish Republic
• Italy
• Latvia
• Liechtenstein
• Lithunania
• Luxembourg
• Netherlands
• Norway
• Poland
• Portugal
• Romania
• Slovakia
• Slovenia
• Spain
• Sweden
• Switzerland

[r4b]

Same rights as British people so should have the same visa rights as British guys bringing their Thai wives to the UK. So no EEA Permit

These people are members of the EEA when applying for their wife to come to the UK

Members of the European Economic Area (EEA) include nationals from the following: Don't see Northern Ireland there!!

• Austria
• Belgium
• Bulgaria
• Cyprus
• Czech Republic
• Denmark
• Finland
• France
• Germany
• Greece
• Hungary
• Iceland
• Irish Republic
• Italy
• Latvia
• Liechtenstein
• Lithunania
• Luxembourg
• Netherlands
• Norway
• Poland
• Portugal
• Romania
• Slovakia
• Slovenia
• Spain
• Sweden
• Switzerland

The Irish Republic is clearly there. Where exactly do you think Irish passport holders are seen to be from or which country do you think the are associated with ?. The answer is Republic Of Ireland/ Irish Republic/ Ireland. which ever u chose to say.

Edited March 28, 2014 by r4b

[beano2274]

you said you are from Northern Ireland, that is not the Republic of Ireland as far as my geography knowledge goes. I remember them being two different countries.

[r4b]

you said you are from Northern Ireland, that is not the Republic of Ireland as far as my geography knowledge goes. I remember them being two different countries.

I guess that depends on what way you look at it but this is not a place for politics. Any person born on the island of ireland, north or south and has a parent or grand parent born in the island of ireland is entitled to have an irish passport and irish citizenship.

[beano2274]

okay, then apply for the EEA Permit as an Irish citizen, but you have to have a job in the UK or have income not from benefits to apply as I posted at the top (Post number 6).

[r4b]

okay, then apply for the EEA Permit as an Irish citizen, but you have to have a job in the UK or have income not from benefits to apply as I posted at the top (Post number 6).

I read from top to bottom the link already before you sent it to me and again after and i never seen any mention of benefits. i found mention of like you say student, working etc and of course permanent resident which i would be. I think it does mention having money to cover the cost of essentals but it makes no reference as to where this money can come from how much it has to be or if it can come from benefits or not. benefits are not mentioned hence why i opened this post !

[beano2274]

Your EEA family member must be working, a jobseeker, self-employed, studying, self-sufficient or have a permanent right of residence.

You do not have permanent right of residence as you applied before as a British Citizen.

[r4b]

Your EEA family member must be working, a jobseeker, self-employed, studying, self-sufficient or have a permanent right of residence.

You do not have permanent right of residence as you applied before as a British Citizen.

We applied for spouse visa and under my British passport and got refused mainly because the rules for immigration changed on the 13 february. Before this date are application was sound and we quilified under the adequate maintenance. if i obtain and Irish passport and renounce my british citizenship how do you work out i do not have a right of residence ?. I have lived here all my life, i was born and raised here in N.ireland so of course i have the right of residence. As i said to you before many people born bread and raised here and who have never even left N.Ireland hold an Irish passport only and are classed as Irish. As i said before every child born in Northern Ireland is intitled and allowed to chose his nationality british or Irish.

Irish nationality law is contained in the provisions of the Irish Nationality and Citizenship Acts 1956 to 2004 and in the relevant provisions of the Irish Constitution. A person may be an Irish citizen^[1] through birth, descent, marriage to an Irish citizen or through naturalisation. The law grants citizenship to individuals born in Northern Ireland under the same conditions as those born in the Republic of Ireland.

[r4b]

A resident of the island of Irelandd is entitled to reside in either the republic or in Northern Ireland without any time limit on that residence

[beano2274]

Renounce your British citizenship if you want to try the EEA permit way, but like i said it is for workers or those listed above.

[r4b]

Renounce your British citizenship if you want to try the EEA permit way, but like i said it is for workers or those listed above.

OMG. permanent resident is what i am and always will be regardless i have Irish or British passport. Why is this so hard for you to understand ?.

Edited March 28, 2014 by r4b

[mark131v]

Not having a go but I am trying to work out what happens if you renounce your British Citizenship, if as you are saying people on the Island of Ireland can choose to be either Brit or Irish then if you choose to be a citizen of one and renounce the other surely you have no claim on tax and benefits from the country you have renounced. I am not talking of duel citizenship as you could conceivably hold both passports but of what happens if you choose to renounce something you have already held in order to get around a rule of that country, doesn't seem right that the UK taxpayer should have to pick up the tab for a person who has voluntarily revoked citizenship, would you have to be assessed for benefits through the Irish system...like I said certainly not having a go but it does seem like a potential minefield

[r4b]

Not having a go but I am trying to work out what happens if you renounce your British Citizenship, if as you are saying people on the Island of Ireland can choose to be either Brit or Irish then if you choose to be a citizen of one and renounce the other surely you have no claim on tax and benefits from the country you have renounced. I am not talking of duel citizenship as you could conceivably hold both passports but of what happens if you choose to renounce something you have already held in order to get around a rule of that country, doesn't seem right that the UK taxpayer should have to pick up the tab for a person who has voluntarily revoked citizenship, would you have to be assessed for benefits through the Irish system...like I said certainly not having a go but it does seem like a potential minefield

It is the fault of the british establishment that i am disabled. As i have previously posted anyone born on the island of ireland is entitled to choose british or irish. We in ireland are deemed a SPECIAL CASE. different from the rest of great britian. renouncing is no different to me not having an irish passport now. i chose to take british wen i had the choice to take irish before or both. if i do choose to renounce i am stating that i choose to not be of british nationality any longer. and if i choose to take irish passport it is my basic human right and that of anyone born on the island of ireland regardless under british rule or irish.

[colinthailand20005]

I used the EEA FP to bring my wife to the UK via the Surrinder Singh route. I had to live in Ireland for a couple of months and we succeeded in getting the FP. I'm a British Citizen

The UKBA will smell a rat and will almost certainly refuse the FP initially even if you qualify. I also think there are new rules on dual nationality, I don't think you can just decide to not be a British citizen.

Also you have not lived in Ireland and would been seen to trying to use a right you are not entitled to.

But who knows the FP is free to apply for so can't hurt I guess.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[r4b]

I used the EEA FP to bring my wife to the UK via the Surrinder Singh route. I had to live in Ireland for a couple of months and we succeeded in getting the FP. I'm a British Citizen

The UKBA will smell a rat and will almost certainly refuse the FP initially even if you qualify. I also think there are new rules on dual nationality, I don't think you can just decide to not be a British citizen.

Also you have not lived in Ireland and would been seen to trying to use a right you are not entitled to.

But who knows the FP is free to apply for so can't hurt I guess.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Hi thanks for you reply. I have lived in republic of Ireland before but i am not looking to go the same route you took its the opposite way with me. i would be using my option of getting an irish passport and renouncing my british citizenship and using irish citizenship solely for my wife to join me here in N.Ireland (uk). Having dual citizenship is not allowed and will not work so if going the way i wish i would hve to renounce my britishness. .It is perfectly with the law to renounce your citizenship and take sole of another. In doing so this would deem me exactly the same as if i had always had irish citizenship. Smelling a rat and seeing exactly what i have done i would assume it would be clear but the law would say i am perfect able to do this am i not. Many people have by my reading from other sites tried and succeeded and are in the process of doing this also. But my original question is about the fact the i am disabled and in receipt of D.L.A and related benefits and will this effect my wifes EEAFP. Does anyone have any information on this because nowhere can i find a single thing on it. Its clear i have permanent residence as i have lived her all my life.

[beano2274]

just seems like abusing the system for your personal gain.

But that is what most people in the UK do.

If you want to be Irish then claim from the Irish Government.

A mate of mine (British) went back months ago to try and claim disability allowance and could not get it, as he was not considered a resident of his own country, as he had been abroad for many years, so why should you, if you give up British Nationality be able to claim it. And then try to get more money as your wife will be living with you, as am sure a married person gets more benefits than a single one.

[7by7]

I asked the basic questions in another topic before I saw this one, namely:

• Would renouncing your British citizenship mean you would still be able to claim all the state benefits which are your sole source of income?
• If you were able to continue claiming, would this income count as being 'self sufficient' under the EEA regulations?

To which you have prompted another one:

• Does renouncing your British citizenship mean you would no longer be counted as a permanent UK resident?

To be frank, I don't know the answer to any of the above; maybe you should seek some professional advice on this.

BTW, quoting the Irish nationality laws is no use; you will be dealing with British authorities using the EEA regulations!

I'm also intrigued; how is it the fault of the British establishment that you are disabled?

Edited March 29, 2014 by 7by7

[r4b]

just seems like abusing the system for your personal gain.

But that is what most people in the UK do.

If you want to be Irish then claim from the Irish Government.

A mate of mine (British) went back months ago to try and claim disability allowance and could not get it, as he was not considered a resident of his own country, as he had been abroad for many years, so why should you, if you give up British Nationality be able to claim it. And then try to get more money as your wife will be living with you, as am sure a married person gets more benefits than a single one.

Ahh see the simple answer to this would be for me to say that the british establishment shouldnt be in Ireland at all, But this is not the place for politics. I think in your response your have missed the whole political situation of the North of Ireland and the Good Friday Agreement. Any person Born North or South of Ireland is free to live and chose which state they live and which citizenship they chose Irish or British. As i have said before Ireland is a special case. The deputy First Minister for Northern Ireland Mr Martain McGuinness is indeed an Irish citizen and renounces all things british as does half of Northern Ireland. I didnt make the terms of the Good Friday Agreement and for me to use them is lawful and under the terms agreeed with the british/irish governments.For further reference for me to claim benefits as a married couple i would be worse off than i am. As i said before it is not my fault i am disabled and cannot work. if i was able do u not think i would get a job and be done with any issues on the eeafp ?. Thanks for your reply.

[r4b]

I asked the basic questions in another topic before I saw this one, namely:

• Would renouncing your British citizenship mean you would still be able to claim all the state benefits which are your sole source of income?
• If you were able to continue claiming, would this income count as being 'self sufficient' under the EEA regulations?

To which you have prompted another one:

• Does renouncing your British citizenship mean you would no longer be counted as a permanent UK resident?

To be frank, I don't know the answer to any of the above; maybe you should seek some professional advice on this.

BTW, quoting the Irish nationality laws is no use; you will be dealing with British authorities using the EEA regulations!

I'm also intrigued; how is it the fault of the British establishment that you are disabled?

As i previously said Northern Ireland is deemed a special case and anyone born north or south is free to choose which nationality he chooses irish or british and which state he lives north or south. Any person from the the island of ireland can move freely between the 2 states and can claim benefits, housing and all things provided by both government as if they reside in them. ( I can just pack everything i own head of to dublin, walk into a government office claim my disability benefit and put in for a government house, Infact if i take the kids they have to put my in temp accom the same as the british state would do ). The rules i quoted are the rules for the whole of Ireland North and south if the eco should know this or they simply should not be doing the job they are doing. As self sufficient i dont know about that the same as you this is why i ask here. but being an unreasonable burden on the state i dont think so. I am resident of the state. Anyone born in north or south of ireland is deemed a resident the island of ireland as a whole. As for the british establishment being the reason for my disability. My disability is due to the war in N.Ireland and caused by members/past members of the British state. Not something i like to talk about.

[r4b]

Gerry Adams born belfast leader of (sinn fien) former mp. Now he sits in the Irish republics government. Sinn fien is an all island of ireland political party. They represent in both governents. although they refuse to take their seats inside british government they do have their office inside. As i say Northern Ireland is a special case.

[r4b]

People born in Northern Ireland are, with some exceptions, deemed by UK law to be citizens of the United Kingdom. They are also, with similar exceptions, entitled to be citizens of Ireland. This entitlement was reaffirmed in the 1998 Good Friday Agreement between the British and Irish governments, which provides that:

"...it is the birthright of all the people of Northern Ireland to identify themselves and be accepted as Irish or British, or both, as they may so choose, and accordingly [the two governments] confirm that their right to hold both British and Irish citizenship is accepted by both Governments and would not be affected by any future change in the status of Northern Ireland.

As a result of the Agreement, the Constitution of the Republic of Ireland was amended. The current wording provides that people born in Northern Ireland are entitled to be Irish citizens on the same basis as people from any other part of the island of Ireland.^[54]

Neither government, however, extends its citizenship to all persons born in Northern Ireland. Both governments exclude some people born in Northern Ireland, in particular persons born without one parent who is a British or Irish citizen. The Irish restriction was given effect by the Twenty-seventh amendment to the Irish Constitution in 2004. The position in UK nationality law is that most of those born in Northern Ireland are UK nationals, whether or not they so choose. Renunciation of British citizenship requires the payment of a fee, currently £229.^[55]

In the 2011 census in Northern Ireland respondents stated that they held the following passports.^[56]

Passport All usual residents Religion or religion brought up in Catholic Protestant and other Christian Other Religions None No passport 18.9% 19.2% 18.5% 9.9% 20.2% United Kingdom 59.1% 38.4% 77.8% 56.0% 65.2% Ireland 20.8% 40.5% 4.1% 10.0% 7.2% Other 3.4% 4.5% 1.1% 29.2% 9.4%

[7by7]

People born in Northern Ireland are, with some exceptions, deemed by UK law to be citizens of the United Kingdom.

Indeed; but you are talking about renouncing that citizenship. Therefore you will no longer be a citizen of the UK!

How that will effect your UK state benefits, whether or not you will lose your permanent residence in the UK and have to live in Northern Ireland for a further 5 years to regain it under the EEA regulations and whether or not you would be classed as a qualified person to enable you to use the EEA regulations to bring your wife to live with you in the UK; as I said, I don't know.

You don't, either. Which is why I think that you should seek professional advice on these matters.

I don't know why you keep quoting Irish nationality and immigration law. As said this is a matter of British law regarding your rights to state benefits if you renounce your British citizenship and EU law regarding whether or not you would be able to use the EEA regulations to bring you wife to the UK were you to do so when your only source of income is UK state benefits; assuming you would still be entitled to receive those benefits.

The ex terrorists McGuiness and Adams are irrelevant to your situation.

Edit:

It is poor netiquette (and against the forum rules?) to quote from another site, in your case Wikipedia, without linking to that site or at least saying where the quote comes from.

Edited March 29, 2014 by 7by7

[mark131v]

Sounds to me like you have your answer, the British system has said that you fall outside the regulations on being able to support your wife due to your only income being drawn purely from UK Government Benefits, doesn't matter when the rules changed or how often the rules and guidance change they appear to be the rules right now

Like you said you now have the option to renounce your British Passport with all its benefits and get yourself over the border and use the EEA method with your Irish citizenship, it will be very interesting to see if the Irish Benefits system is quite so generous with the money they give out especially to someone who has voluntarily chosen to become homeless.........