Leaving Thailand for China, here is why

[MrHammer]

Yes, here comes another post about another nobody leaving Thailand and I am waiting for the 'don't let the door hit you' replies and that is fine. In any case, it's time to pack the bags and head for greener pastures in China.

I first came to Thailand more than ten years ago, spent a couple years in Europe and some years here, a lot has happened since then. Bangkok where I spent most of my time has grown economically and has changed a lot. I generally don't think it has been for the better for the foreigner. The cost of living has gone up a lot, rent is high, food prices have increased a lot, drinking and partying is now more expensive than many European cities. Attitudes have changed at not for the better.

Nightlife is crap now compared to years past. The cost in most clubs have risen a lot, particularly where foreigners often go. I pay the same for a whisky in Levels that I would in much better clubs in Japan or Europe and for what? The clientele on the lady side is still the same Isaan <deleted>, only now there are tons and tons more young guys who with the internet have been drawn to Bangkok with lures of easy <deleted>. I noticed this a couple weeks ago in Climax - where I only went because of a friend on vacation - the club is flooded by twenty something guys from the US and Europe. I'm only a couple of years older, but what the <deleted> is the point in having to compete for isaan prostitutes? Is that really the best we can do or that I can do? Nope it is not. Nightlife for the foreigner in Bangkok is saturated and even the gogo bars are severely lacking in quality for way to high prices. Yes, you can go to the Thai clubs, but standing around a table and absolutely having to know people to socialize isn't my idea of fun. In summary, Bangkok and Thailand is PLAYED OUT, it has became simply another stag party destination and the locals have adopted attitudes to match that.

Reputation of foreigners is at an all time low, don't fool yourself, there is ZERO positive rep to being a foreigner now, unless you want to meet the destitute farmer girl. There is always the implied idea that you're a <deleted>monger with the Thais. I find in general that Thai people are rude, dismissive and ignorant now towards foreigners. This has been much more obvious to me as I've met a lot of people from the rest of Asia recently from Taiwan, Singapore, China, Japan etc. After a while dealing with the Thais you begin to wonder if you're really that contemptuous a creature simply for being a 'farang'. Having met a lot of other asians recently, I can simply conclude that is not the case, but that the xenophobia and disdain for the farang is at an all time high. Do you really want to live in a place where you are constantly regarded with suspicion and ill will? I do not. I find the Thais to be among the least friendly and interesting people in south east and all of Asia.

Lack of quality is a real problem in Thailand. Both material, but equally much in people. Smart, open minded and capable people are simple few and far apart. Most of the people who fit that description that I've met and made friends with are foreigners. Western or asian. Thai's are herd animals with very little and I mean very little capacity for the slightest independence of action or thought. We can add the vast majority of foreigners living here to that. Most foreign expats are trash, simply put. Alcoholics, sexual degenerates, criminals and perverts. The kind of conversations found in many social expat settings are simply not normal. Addiction to either sex, alcohol, drugs or your own ego is the norm. This of course is a major reason our reputation is in the <deleted>. A former loose business associate recently tried to commit suicide after just a month ago having boasted of his great riches and investment opp. Turns out he was living a lie. Another acquaintance who recently moved here is trying to survive now on 30K a month most of which goes to <deleted>, then comes to me asking for biz help, all the while denying to lend me 1000 baht the last time I forgot my wallet. Stories like that are endless. QUALITY people. Not to say there aren't good people here because there are, but you really have to make an effort to befriend them, because they, like me, are also very wary with reason of other foreigners.

Business and career opportunities are sorely lacking here. I am a guy with an education, highly marketable skills, who have been hired for almost every job I have ever applied for and who has also been successfully self employed for a couple of years. Not more than 3 years ago, I was a senior manager in my field at under 30 years of age. Over here in Thailand, despite having sent several applications for jobs that I am more than qualified for, I receive no interest, in fact, no response back at all. In my country, we consider it at least common courtesy to send a standard mail to all applicants regardless. Not so here in nepotist Thailand. People get hired not on merit, but on connections and for that reason, Thailand will continue to lack behind the rest of Asia. Lets talk business shall we? Which business you could ask. There is zero opportunity for startups here and no real legal protection either. No access to a skilled workforce or investment capital. Thailand is a black hole that only takes but does not give.

Why China? Because it is the rising power and while the best wild west days are probably gone, there are still great opportunities there. What's more important is that chinese people are actually looking out, something that no thai has done in the last 30 years - and the chinese are actually very interested in what the rest of the world are doing, how we are living, what the world thinks of china etc. They want to learn from others, to work together. The white man is not seen merely as a despicable walking wallet to be fleeced in between <deleted>mongering activities. It's a huge county, massive differences in culture, nature and language. The opportunities there are endless. There are also jobs, there are business opportunities, possibilities to make things happen if you are a hardworking guy. Oh yeah, and their women are far more attractive than the isaan prostitutes or the weird looking halfbreeds adored by the Thai media.

I believe too many people have just stayed in Thailand because of the ease of status quo. I only went back because I knew the country, not for any real desire to live here. I think there are much better places to live now than Thailand, for a lot of people. More importantly, I think a lot of Thai expats could actually do a lot better for themselves outside Thailand, only they have incrementally accepted lower and lower opinions of themselves and expectations of life.

In any case, see you later Thailand, I won't be back except perhaps for a quick prostitution spree - the Thai way.

Edited March 31, 2014 by metisdead
Edited to remove inappropriate language and profanities.

[Seastallion]

You make many good points. Good luck in China, I hope it works out for you.

[robertthebruce]

Life is all about choices, and this is your choice, thats fine....

All the best in ''China'' and hope it works out..

[Totster]

Why do you feel the need to explain yourself here ? No one cares.

totster

[benalibina]

Why do you feel the need to explain yourself here ? No one cares.

totster

If everybody would follow ur comment.....bye bye thaivisa...

[Thai at Heart]

Wait for it.

If you dont like it, le....

Oh, you are. Good luck. Not entirely untrue any of it.

[Totster]

If everybody would follow ur comment.....bye bye thaivisa...

Not at all, the forum is a great place to find information and discuss different topics. However, no one has asked or cares whether the OP is leaving Thailand or the reasons behind his decision.

totster

[farang000999]

Besides the nightlife what were your other hobbies and interests in Thailand? You seem to only talk about the nightlife... you seem kind of obsessed with it.

[nickmanchester2]

yeah I agree I could do better in another country, but I have got so much stuff after 4 years! I can't be bothered moving as i'd have to buy it all again.

My car is full to the brim whenever I move house, and its all stuff I use every day - my possessions own me I think.

heh heh, i'm so lazy

[DP25]

I find in general that Thai people are rude, dismissive and ignorant now towards foreigners.

Good thing you're moving to China.

[wym]

Lots of good and true points here, but what's negative for guys in your situation are generally the result of developments good for the Kingdom and just the way the Thais want it.

Looking for "companionship" in the nightclubs was always a mistake IMO for too many reasons to bother listing, but it's great that the girls now have more young guys as options rather than the 99% fat old geezers in the past.

You talk about how bad our reputation is then immediately confirm how justified it is.

Part of the problem is limiting yourself to Bangkok and city folk, but maybe you're a city boy. IMO the best people and the real Thailand is out in the sticks, and the non-English speaking "destitute farmer girl" is much more attractive than any English-speaking TGs available in farang-infested areas.

TPTB here most definitely don't want us working or being entrepreneurial here - only the bare minimum required by established MNCs and the "pet farang" NES required for teaching and translating.editing for starvation wages.

They want us to make our money outside Thailand and just come here to spend it.

Best of luck!

[SickOfEm]

A change is as good as a rest and all that. Exciting times ahead the inquisitiveness and mysteriousness soon evaporates once you've been here a while then it becomes the norm, then the faults start to appear, then the frustration then the resentment. Best cure is to pack up and piss off somewhere else if you can be arsed, good luck with your new destination.

[Satcommlee]

Well thought out and constructive post, thanks for sharing..

[nottocus]

Bye.

[kimbathewhitelion]

Don't need to read the novel to know if you can then all the better. China has extensive international business, an absolutely beautiful country, excellent food & among the most beautiful women in the world. Forever love China...except their exported electronics, clothing, etc., exports asides, an excellent choice for life.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[JLCrab]

I spent time in PRChina 1988 to late 90's when you needed an invite from a Communist Party Official to get a multi-entry visa which is what I had. When I was in China, they were poor. No desire to go back.

[Scottythai]

Look at Myanmar as well. Now that its opened up their is a huge boom for skilled workers. The rest is the rest. Good luck in China

[vtjforyou]

555+ let's see how China is better !

What you wrote about Thailand is true but you seem to be dreaming about China.

Anyway you should decide what you want, be self employed or just employed, because if you just want to make easy money just as I do Thailand is far good enough, and not sure that I would become billionaire in China anyway... But maybe you will !

Wondering how long you will need to come back here and say sorry i was stupid...

<3

[JLCrab]

A friend of mine last year spent 6 months working in Guangzhou. He said that the place was filled up with young unemployed persons from Spain.

[The stuttering parrot]

I am actually a long time reader of TV but over the years I have refrained from posting mainly because of the negative thai bashing people on here.

Then of Friday I was talking to a mate about this forum and I asked why do expats that live in Thailand just bag the the place and it's people and yet still stay there?

We'll he said those people with such attitudes will never be happy anywhere on earth it's just in their DNA basically they are just narks and lead a miserable life and want other people to come down to their level.

You and I won't call you sir are a typical example of the negative farangs that should have never stayed in the first place.

So go and take your negative thai bashing views and go and inflict your racist negative views on the Chinese .

Their loss thai lands gain.

And I hope the doors hits you on the way out!

[MrHammer]

I am actually a long time reader of TV but over the years I have refrained from posting mainly because of the negative thai bashing people on here.

Then of Friday I was talking to a mate about this forum and I asked why do expats that live in Thailand just bag the the place and it's people and yet still stay there?

We'll he said those people with such attitudes will never be happy anywhere on earth it's just in their DNA basically they are just narks and lead a miserable life and want other people to come down to their level.

You and I won't call you sir are a typical example of the negative farangs that should have never stayed in the first place.

So go and take your negative thai bashing views and go and inflict your racist negative views on the Chinese .

Their loss thai lands gain.

And I hope the doors hits you on the way out!

And you sir is a perfect example of the other side of the coin, the hopeless naive who will be back here in a couple of years moaning over having lost their house or having been scammed.

If you read the post at all, you would have noticed that I do not really blame the Thai, nor could what I wrote in any way be construed as 'racist' or 'Thai bashing'.

There is always another side to the coin. One man's trash is another man's treasure and reverse. What appeals to many about Thailand: the corruption and freedom associated with it, the low education levels and therefore low incomes and low cost of living, is also the reason for many of its problems. For me, the positives do no longer outweigh the negatives and so, I have chosen to leave. That is a personal decision and one which you don't have to agree with. Maybe your requirements for a happy life are different than mine?

I might be a miserable nark, but I'll be slightly less miserable once I leave Thailand.

[Nautilus05]

It sounds as though you didn't really give Thailand much of a chance. Almost sounds as if you moved into a farang ghetto somewhere, have now partied yourself out, are bored of the scene, and want to checkout somewhere new. Basically, you got bored of Nana and the sexpats, so time for something new.

That's fine and all, and hope you have good travels. Don't bash Thailand over it though, as it has nothing to do with Thailand. It's due to you living in a farang ghetto, wanting to party every night.

[benalibina]

It sounds as though you didn't really give Thailand much of a chance. Almost sounds as if you moved into a farang ghetto somewhere, have now partied yourself out, are bored of the scene, and want to checkout somewhere new. Basically, you got bored of Nana and the sexpats, so time for something new.

That's fine and all, and hope you have good travels. Don't bash Thailand over it though, as it has nothing to do with Thailand. It's due to you living in a farang ghetto, wanting to party every night.

You know the OP ?

[MrHammer]

It sounds as though you didn't really give Thailand much of a chance. Almost sounds as if you moved into a farang ghetto somewhere, have now partied yourself out, are bored of the scene, and want to checkout somewhere new. Basically, you got bored of Nana and the sexpats, so time for something new.

That's fine and all, and hope you have good travels. Don't bash Thailand over it though, as it has nothing to do with Thailand. It's due to you living in a farang ghetto, wanting to party every night.

I still don't see where the 'bashing' element comes into play?

You're right that I've lived in an expat ghetto, though more japanese here than farang, and that I've grown tired of the partying and that's when I discovered that once I took away the party scene, there wasn't much else to interest me. I do not generally find Thai culture and Bangkok leisure activities particularly interesting after the novelty wore off. That's just for me personally. A lot of what would make Bangkok interesting again has high barrier to entry in the form of connections or high language ability and even then, as foreigner you're not invited a lot of places. Again, I am not willing to make that kind of investment, when I think that time and money would be better spent elsewhere.

[The stuttering parrot]

Yeah mate I'm real naive!

34 years married to my thai wife three children two grand children extensive investments in Thailand a great bunch of expat mates from all over the world and a great bunch of thai friends and family.

Oh hang on maybe she got me on the long term scam plan.

Try getting out of the bars and the gutter and see the positive side of life.

[Scarpolo]

OP,

have you been to china?

I am interested to hear of your future, and hope you update your thread.

I would have been interested in golf but it appears physically defeating here,

the one poster who has been married 34 years is an exception,

but I would like to know how people prosper in thailand

[meatboy]

I find in general that Thai people are rude, dismissive and ignorant now towards foreigners.

Good thing you're moving to China.

and foreigners are trash,alcies,criminals,perverts,like the saying goes it takes one to know one.

I bet the boys and girls love you.

[strikingsunset]

Well as the saying goes " be careful what you wish for".

I have lived in China,mainly in Shanghai,but also in Yunnan province for the last 10 years.

It has been a fantastic experience,and I had 2 wonderful long term girlfriends.

I am now in the process of leaving China,I want a change,and it's becoming crushingly expensive.

Inflation in Shanghai must be running at 8 per cent per annum,the GBP has declined from 14 yuan to about 10 over the period.

Although I have had some work there,interest on my savings has,at least,halved.

When I analyze the situation my spending power is down at least 70 per cent in 10 years.

I also contest that jobs are plentiful,it is a hugely competitive market and even with excellent connections it is a huge challenge to get anything,10,s of millions of graduates every year flood the market.There is also an influx of young educated westerners who speak fluent mandarin to compete with.

If you don't speak fluent Mandarin,your opportunities are hugely restricted.

The visa situation also gets ever tighter,unless you have special expertise ( eg Architect),it will be very very difficult to get a work visa.10 years ago I could secure a 1 year visa easily.

Last July the visa rules were once again tightened.The best visa I could secure was a 1 year multi entry visa,but I have to exit China every 60 days,and I only secured this as I had a recently expired ,previous,business visa in my passport.

Regarding Chinese women,yes the are,broadly speaking ( and talking from my experience) among the best in the world,They seem to have a natural sophistication,they are very proud,loyal,and ambitious.They are also in the driving seat in a country where there are 117 men to every 100 women.A Chinese woman has a clear idea of what she wants,mainly marriage children,financial security,not unlike most women,but I suggest these ideals are pursued more confidently.

If you are going to live in the first tier cities eg Shanghai or Beijing,you will need at least 2000 US dollars a month to have a half reasonable life.

So that's my half pence worth.

Good Luck.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

[David48]

I actually enjoyed reading the OP.

His thoughts and perceptions, while some of us may not agree with his are well presented and I can walk a mile in shoes.

Why I liked the OP was because, if nothing else, it makes you evaluate your own reasons for living and continuing to remain in Thailand.

So, I will walk against the herd and that say ... thanks OP for sharing.

[Scarpolo]

Well as the saying goes " be careful what you wish for".

I have lived in China,mainly in Shanghai,but also in Yunnan province for the last 10 years.

It has been a fantastic experience,and I had 2 wonderful long term girlfriends.

I am now in the process of leaving China,I want a change,and it's becoming crushingly expensive.

Inflation in Shanghai must be running at 8 per cent per annum,the GBP has declined from 14 yuan to about 10 over the period.

Although I have had some work there,interest on my savings has,at least,halved.

When I analyze the situation my spending power is down at least 70 per cent in 10 years.

I also contest that jobs are plentiful,it is a hugely competitive market and even with excellent connections it is a huge challenge to get anything,10,s of millions of graduates every year flood the market.There is also an influx of young educated westerners who speak fluent mandarin to compete with.

If you don't speak fluent Mandarin,your opportunities are hugely restricted.

The visa situation also gets ever tighter,unless you have special expertise ( eg Architect),it will be very very difficult to get a work visa.10 years ago I could secure a 1 year visa easily.

Last July the visa rules were once again tightened.The best visa I could secure was a 1 year multi entry visa,but I have to exit China every 60 days,and I only secured this as I had a recently expired ,previous,business visa in my passport.

Regarding Chinese women,yes the are,broadly speaking ( and talking from my experience) among the best in the world,They seem to have a natural sophistication,they are very proud,loyal,and ambitious.They are also in the driving seat in a country where there are 117 men to every 100 women.A Chinese woman has a clear idea of what she wants,mainly marriage children,financial security,not unlike most women,but I suggest these ideals are pursued more confidently.

If you are going to live in the first tier cities eg Shanghai or Beijing,you will need at least 2000 US dollars a month to have a half reasonable life.

So that's my half pence worth.

Good Luck.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

$2,000 a month,

thats half of what you would think for cosmopolitan and sofisticated