Chiang Mai -vs- Ecuador

[HerbalEd]

BTW, now it's only a rumor, but recently I have read "chatter" that the leftist anti-American leader of Ecuador (Correa) is planning to significantly raise the financial requirements for retired expat residency

To call Correa "anti-American" is a bit of a stretch. He graduated from university in the U.S. and has ties to the country. He is certainly pro-Ecuadorian, much more so than past presidents of the country have been...most of them have been about propping up the wealthy oligarchy or have been totally incompetent. Ecuador has a long history of large-U.S. backed companies coming in and exploiting natural resources and Correa is attempting to stop it.

I never said he was the same as Chavez but yes he uses a lot of anti-American political rhetoric. It's not entirely off topic either, because the leftist government there seems well established and that means a lot of policies that aren't so great for expats, such as massive import taxes on things like peanut butter and electronics. Compared to Colombia, yes the government in Ecuador is anti-American. But American people are very welcome to live there and especially visit as tourists.

I see... yes, I can understand that. My experience is that Ecuador is much more welcoming to foreigners than Thailand in terms of integrating into the community and being accepted. I find Thailand to be rather xenophobic and the people to be superficially polite, status/class minded, and eager to look down on others. I think we are not looked at as much as people in Thailand but rather what's in our wallets and we are all farang.

I find Ecuadorians to be the opposite. I find that Ecuadorians were eager to separate the person from the nationality and are much more broader minded, genuine, and humble.

I know a lot of people disagree with my point of view and love Thai people and that's fine.

To be fair ... even though I overall prefer Thailand over Ecuador ... you have a point. Ecuadorians are for the most part very genuine, nice, and welcoming people. But, what can I say ... I very much love my Thai girlfriend and will be marrying her soon. And I love life in Asia.

[HerbalEd]

I've lived in Thailand a long time. I've visited Ecuador several times and only spent a total of about three months there all together. But, FWIW, I'd choose Thailand any day over Ecuador ... in fact, I already have. But that's me. Other people's experiences, taste, needs, etc. will vary.

And for those to whom it matters: Overall, the beauty and style of the Thai ladies is far superior.

Couldn't disagree more. Ecuadorian women are down to earth, not interested in money (in general) and laid back. But there's almost no pay for play, sugar daddy/little girl, etc... but I was a young man when I was living in Ecuador and continue to be here in Thailand, so it might not be the same for a different age group.

I would say Ecuadorian women's looks are not drop dead gorgeous but there are some cuties there as well.

For sure there are some beautiful women in Ecuador and throughout Latin America (esp. Colombia & Brazil). Also, different men have different criteria and needs women-wise. But can I ask ... and this is not meant as a challenge: Why are you living in Thailand and not in Ecuador with an Ecuadorian girlfriend/wife?

[DavidMavec]

I've lived in Thailand a long time. I've visited Ecuador several times and only spent a total of about three months there all together. But, FWIW, I'd choose Thailand any day over Ecuador ... in fact, I already have. But that's me. Other people's experiences, taste, needs, etc. will vary.

And for those to whom it matters: Overall, the beauty and style of the Thai ladies is far superior.

For sure there are some beautiful women in Ecuador and throughout Latin America (esp. Colombia & Brazil). Also, different men have different criteria and needs women-wise. But can I ask ... and this is not meant as a challenge: Why are you living in Thailand and not in Ecuador with an Ecuadorian girlfriend/wife?

Haha yeah that's a good question! Actually I ask myself this every day! It's a long story but actually I am thinking of moving to Ecuador at some point soon but I would be taking the Thai girlfriend with me. Her work contract goes for a little longer and it is an important job experience for her. Actually, she is quite excited to learn Spanish because she has a lot of friends from different countries in Latin America and Spain after doing a study abroad program in Japan, and we travelled to Spain together this past summer... Spain and Ecuador are two worlds apart but she got a feel for Latin culture being there.

So in a fairly short time I might be writing this from Ecuador instead of Thailand.

Edited April 1, 2014 by DavidMavec

[jaideeguy]

Cebu Philippines was always my plan B but still haven't made it there, yet!

I've been to Cebu many times over the last 30 years and can honestly say with no hesitation at all that it is a sh*#t hole and getting worse. Write that one off. The only good thing about Cebu is that it is a shipping hub to other much better islands in the Phil.

[Jingthing]

Cebu Philippines was always my plan B but still haven't made it there, yet!

I've been to Cebu many times over the last 30 years and can honestly say with no hesitation at all that it is a sh*#t hole and getting worse. Write that one off. The only good thing about Cebu is that it is a shipping hub to other much better islands in the Phil.

Interesting. I couldn't quite picture living there myself, but I didn't find it THAT bad.

[Loptr]

For anyone who has applied for a residency visa for Ecuador who lived in Thailand before then, can you explain (in detail if possible) how you got the fully apostled police clearance form from Thailand that was accepted by Ecuador immigration? This seems to me to be quite difficult. Some good news on that, the report can now be as old as 6 months (changed from 3 months). This specialized info is not readily available from Ecuador oriented sites as so few people come there after living in Thailand. There's plenty of clear info on doing this for the U.S., but these reports are required for any country you've lived in for FIVE YEARS before applying for residency in Ecuador.

How about getting the clearance form completed at the Royal Thai Police Headquarters in Bangkok and then taking it to the Ecuador Consulate in Bangkok.

The documents still need the Apostile stamp, which is similar to notarization in the US. This is not done at the embassy and must be done prior to submission of documents for visa application. The documents will need to be translated from Thai to Spanish also prior to the Apostile being applied.

[Loptr]

I graduated from college in Ecuador and lived there for about a year (this was about 10 years ago). I can tell you Ecuador is so much better than Thailand in terms of people and culture. They are genuine and welcoming there and I made good friends with the locals. After living in Thailand for around three years I have almost an opposite feeling about the locals here.

Thailand is better on a superficial level in the sense that it has more conveniences, restaurant variety, etc. But people in Ecuador are so much better, it's just a better climate overall.

I speak Spanish fluently. While I wouldn't call my Thai fluent, I can have a conversation and read and write.

Your language proficiency clearly explains your preference.

Leave it to the peanut gallery to throw stones at the first post from someone with actual experience in both countries. Congrats, you qualify for the grump old farang of the day award.

[Jingthing]

For anyone who has applied for a residency visa for Ecuador who lived in Thailand before then, can you explain (in detail if possible) how you got the fully apostled police clearance form from Thailand that was accepted by Ecuador immigration? This seems to me to be quite difficult. Some good news on that, the report can now be as old as 6 months (changed from 3 months). This specialized info is not readily available from Ecuador oriented sites as so few people come there after living in Thailand. There's plenty of clear info on doing this for the U.S., but these reports are required for any country you've lived in for FIVE YEARS before applying for residency in Ecuador.

How about getting the clearance form completed at the Royal Thai Police Headquarters in Bangkok and then taking it to the Ecuador Consulate in Bangkok.

The documents still need the Apostile stamp, which is similar to notarization in the US. This is not done at the embassy and must be done prior to submission of documents for visa application. The documents will need to be translated from Thai to Spanish also prior to the Apostile being applied.

Thailand is not an apostle treaty nation.

I'm actually looking for someone to report who has ACTUALLY done this for Thailand police report acceptable to Ecuador.

I know this one detail may seem trivial to some, but if you don't have it, you will NEVER be able to live in Ecuador, and Thailand is VERY FAR from Ecuador.

Edited April 1, 2014 by Jingthing

[BB1955]

Resident expats up to ages 60 or 65 can apparently sign up for Ecuador's excellent healthcare system for only $70/month. No need to be employed, no pre-existing condition clauses, no deductibles, transfer to private hospital if necessary (at no extra charge), lifetime coverage. There is even talk of removing the upper age limit. But like Chiang Mai's failed attempt at expat coverage, details are sketchy and may vary depending on who you ask.

Other advantages of Ecuador: moderate climate, cleaner air, easier language, official currency = USD. But I'm sure there are disadvantages as well.

It would be nice to get a report from someone who's lived in both Chiang Mai and Ecuador for at least a year. IMHO, Chiang Mai will still come up on top (unless the political situation explodes here). But it's good to have a plan "B." as things can change very quickly.

My older sister was looking into Ecudor and was advised they stopped the insurance for expats for the same reason they have stopped it here . She told me this just a few days ago ,,, so before making this an issue check further mmmm

[hugocnx]

What might be interesting too, is to see if Equador has a Tax treaty with your country to avoid double taxing.

So if mean cost of living is about 30% higher than Chiang Mai (see a post above) and there is no Tax treaty with your country of origin, you might end up with a cost of living higher than 50 - 60 % compared to Chiang Mai.

In that case there is another pro to stay in Chiang Mai.

What I learned about Equador is about what posters said and there is another benefit, which is that in fact the second or even first language today is American English.

[Braddockrd]

Manta is a great city on the coast. Life is cheap. People are friendly (unlike Thais) and curious (unlike Thais) and have interesting conversations (unlike Thais). Quito is a good city for a capital, with a lot of foreigners (better breed than in Thailsnd). That said, expect more crime, so be more wary. Learn Spanish, otherwise don't go

[Braddockrd]

What might be interesting too, is to see if Equador has a Tax treaty with your country to avoid double taxing.

So if mean cost of living is about 30% higher than Chiang Mai (see a post above) and there is no Tax treaty with your country of origin, you might end up with a cost of living higher than 50 - 60 % compared to Chiang Mai.

In that case there is another pro to stay in Chiang Mai.

What I learned about Equador is about what posters said and there is another benefit, which is that in fact the second or even first language today is American English.

What are you talking about???? Evidently you know nothing about Ecuador and understand even less about taxes

[nithisa78]

How about the ladies, Cuenca vs CM?

I believe they are human beings, like they are in Chiang Mai, although, given what's on your mind, you may not perceive them to be so.

~o:37;

Thank you.

[mr chow]

Mesquite has been in thailand way too long. Not EVERY great looking girl in a kateoy!

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[Dannyboy6]

Ecuadorians are good looking and polite, unfortunately haven't been there.

[hugocnx]

What might be interesting too, is to see if Equador has a Tax treaty with your country to avoid double taxing.

So if mean cost of living is about 30% higher than Chiang Mai (see a post above) and there is no Tax treaty with your country of origin, you might end up with a cost of living higher than 50 - 60 % compared to Chiang Mai.

In that case there is another pro to stay in Chiang Mai.

What I learned about Equador is about what posters said and there is another benefit, which is that in fact the second or even first language today is American English.

What are you talking about???? Evidently you know nothing about Ecuador and understand even less about taxes

So what do you know, big shot?!

Edited April 1, 2014 by hugocnx

[Andre0720]

Cebu Philippines was always my plan B but still haven't made it there, yet!

If you are happy with just one woman , and looking for a trustworthy girl to marry,

Go for it...

[santaf]

I've been living in Cuenca Ecuador for well over a year now. We are on our way to Thailand later in the year. I've been all over Thailand and have spent some time there so know exactly what to expect. I'm also a seasoned traveller (have been to almost 40 countries and still counting), citizen of the world and 4th time expat. Have lived in the US and the UK mostly. I don't agree with all the innuendoes on this thread that Ecuador is "better than" Thailand. Smacks of "grass is greener on the other side" to me. Ecuador isn't for everyone, nor is Thailand. Which country you like better really depends on your priorities. Ecuadorian people are very nice and hospitable but they are also more conservative than most S. Americans I've met from other countries. Yes, Spanish is easier to learn than Thai but most Gringos here don't even bother learning or speaking Spanish. And yes, they do use the USD, but to me, those are minor considerations. I decided that I don't want to stay in Ecuador for a few reasons:

1. I really feel culinarily deprived here. My taste buds long for more variety. Other than the abundance of fruits and produce which both Ecuador and Thailand have, there is no comparison to the food availability between the 2 countries. I'm not just talking about what you can get in the grocery, but options for eating out on a budget. It's mostly chicken, rice and potatoes here.

2. I feel isolated here. Travelling is kind of 3rd world in the region. You can't get around easily unless you have a car. (cars are twice as expensive to buy comparing to the US though gas is cheap here. They are expensive to rent also). It takes hours to get anywhere by bus. There are not a lot of places you can fly to easily (from Cuenca you can only fly to Quito direct). Most of all, it's expensive to travel in the region. Flights to Peru, the next country, cost an arm and a leg (something like $500-$700 to Lima for a return from Quito or Guayaquil) the last time I looked, you can fly to the next country from Thailand for a 10th of that. Travelling by bus in the region is just not an option - it takes way too long. I don't have the time or patience for that. That's why I prefer being in Asia - it's so cheap to travel by air in the region, and there are trains too.

3. You can't get anything other than basic staples here easily. I mean if you want any electronic gadget, computer peripherals, cameras and such. The choice is severely limited and if available you get the older models and they cost more. Most of the consumer goods you find here are of the cheap and cheesy variety from China. Yes, there is Club Correo, but do you want to wait 2-4 weeks and spend 30-50 dollars on shipping every time you order something from Amazon? I shop in the US whenever I go back for stuff like that so I manage.

I have many more reasons but those will suffice. Frankly, i think both Cuenca and Ecuador have been overrated as "the best place to retire". This suits the agenda of the people who profit from attracting retirees to Ecuador. Cuenca is very pleasant and we live very comfortably here in a nice apartment with all mod cons and we are enjoying our time here. But I'm noticing more of the 3rd world traits about Ecuador that's wearing on me - like having to go to the bank and stand in line (to pay rent and school fees. I never had to do that in the US. You do everything online and there's drive in); broken and dirty pavements/sidewalks, trash and dog poop on the streets. Not to mention that postal service is almost non-existent here. Mail takes something like 3-7 weeks to get here. I've had friends sent stuff here by Express airmail from Europe and it still takes almost 3 weeks to get here, same with mail from Chile and Argentina. You can't rely on the postal service here. Nobody seems to get any mail here (at least for Cuenca, it's better in Quito) and there is only one shabby little post office in the whole town of Cuenca with a population of half a million.

That said, you live with the quirks of the country you are in. We do like it here but are looking forward to moving to Thailand. BTW, my perspective is that of a digital nomad, not a retiree. I suppose retirees have a different lifestyle and priorities.

I've also seriously looked into Malaysia as well. I think it is a very attractive option also and could be our next destination (to live) after Thailand. I think Malaysia may be a bit more Westerner friendly as English is much more widely spoken, and there are a lot of similarities between Thailand and Malaysia.

Edited April 1, 2014 by santaf

[chiangmaicondo]

Thanks for the comments from people have actually lived in Ecuador.

Great info Santaf.

Will give my reports and thoughts after spending some time there.

[DavidMavec]

Great post Santaf, thanks for your information. I think it's like you said, that different people have different priorities. I agree that Ecuador is more third world than Thailand and one of the reasons that Thailand is so easy to live in, at least on a superficial level, is how convenient it is and how Thai people are obsessed with first world convenience. Also, it's true that the food in Thailand is better and there is a wider variety of international cuisine.

[connda]

Got the funds...

Leaving Thailand on Thursday 3 April...

Heading to Central and South America looking for Plan B.

Will check out Cuenca when we get to Ecuador.

Planning on staying at least one month to check things out.

Thanks for your input.

chiangmaicondo. Keep the TV community up-to-date on your impressions while your on your trip. I really have the same questions. If anything happened to my marriage, I'd consider pulling up stakes and heading that direction, although I need to work on my Spanish. Darn easier than Thai though! I'd be interested on visa information for the country too. Have a good trip!

[connda]

For anyone who has applied for a residency visa for Ecuador who lived in Thailand before then, can you explain (in detail if possible) how you got the fully apostled police clearance form from Thailand that was accepted by Ecuador immigration? This seems to me to be quite difficult. Some good news on that, the report can now be as old as 6 months (changed from 3 months). This specialized info is not readily available from Ecuador oriented sites as so few people come there after living in Thailand. There's plenty of clear info on doing this for the U.S., but these reports are required for any country you've lived in for FIVE YEARS before applying for residency in Ecuador.

I wonder if the apostle needs to originate from Thailand if you've maintained a residential address in your home country while living here.

[Jingthing]

Santaf,

I haven't even been yet (and maybe never will) but I gathered a lot of the same impressions just reading Ecuador websites.

The only surprise was the airfare situation to Peru, didn't know that.

Basically I want a third country backup option other than Thailand and the USA. Ecuador is probably still one of them Colombia even possibly. Panama probably not. Costa Rica and Mexico, definitely not.

[purushanti]

"Airfare situation to Peru"? What is the situation? Any other details on Peru welcome. Thanks

Edited April 1, 2014 by purushanti

[santaf]

I should add that Ecuador is probably one of the easiest countries I know of to get residency. If you want back up residency, Ecuador is a great option and you don't have to commit to living there except in the first year. I haven't been through the process yet because I don't intend to stay though I have thoroughly looked into it. Here are 3 of the options available, most people will qualify for one of them:

1. Retirement/pension income of $800 per month (or something in that region). Not sure about retirement age.

2. $25,000 investment, this could be in real estate or cash deposit in a bank.

3. a university degree will get you a professional visa which gives you residency

I would go with option 3 if I were to stay. Residency is good for 10 years, renewable thereafter. I think you also qualify to apply for citizenship after 7 years - which will give you a second passport. The paperwork can be somewhat of a nightmare though, practically everything has to be apostilled, certified, notarized and all that (can be a horrendous hassle if you are not in the country where the paperwork originates, especially with the abysmal postal service in Ecuador), though getting 10 year residency can be well worth it.

All facts and figures are from memory and from my research about a year ago or so, do double check them if you are seriously looking into this.

Check out this blog post on how to get a professional residency visa for Ecuador:

http://cuencacultureshock.com/201302how-to-get-a-professional-residency-visa-9-v-in-ecuador-html/

Edited April 1, 2014 by santaf

[Jingthing]

I have never heard of this thing that just having a university degree is the only qualification for Ecuador residency. Sorry, I don't believe it. Cheeky of me to say that to someone who lives there, but really, I would have heard about that.

I do agree it is one of the easiest (of places you might want to live in anyway) nations in the world to get residency. WAY easier than Thailand, that's for sure.

As I mentioned before, the real estate option is tricky. You might have to spend 100,000 dollars to get the paper for 25,000 because it's based on the amount in the tax books, not the sales price.

Edited April 1, 2014 by Jingthing

[muchogra]

I might move there if I don't speak pretty good Thai. I guess it's kind of late for me to learn Spanish now.

Wow, some knockout pic someone has posted!

[puukao]

This may have been covered before, but, to me, I would worry about rain in Ecuador more than Thailand. CM has about 4 months of very little rain, but Cuenca seems to experience rain all year at a steady pace. Also, I do think CM is too hot most of the time; however, the average high in Cuenca seems to be about 65F all year. that is too cold for me, but if retired it might feel great. I am sure the air quality is better in Cuenca.

I have heard traveling in south america is 100x harder than Asia, and the people might not try to speak English.

My 2 cents: spend 2 weeks in Ecuador, 2 weeks in Columbia, head down to Argentina (their currency and political climate is a mess), and then consider Taiwan. And, no matter what, go with your gut feeling. CM is the only city outside of USA i considered "home". Yes, i complain about the heat and air quality; however, i complain in the USA about other things. enjoy

[HerbalEd]

This may have been covered before, but, to me, I would worry about rain in Ecuador more than Thailand. CM has about 4 months of very little rain, but Cuenca seems to experience rain all year at a steady pace. Also, I do think CM is too hot most of the time; however, the average high in Cuenca seems to be about 65F all year. that is too cold for me, but if retired it might feel great. I am sure the air quality is better in Cuenca.

I have heard traveling in south america is 100x harder than Asia, and the people might not try to speak English.

My 2 cents: spend 2 weeks in Ecuador, 2 weeks in Columbia, head down to Argentina (their currency and political climate is a mess), and then consider Taiwan. And, no matter what, go with your gut feeling. CM is the only city outside of USA i considered "home". Yes, i complain about the heat and air quality; however, i complain in the USA about other things. enjoy

Colombia is probably the most misspelled country in the world ... even in newspapers and magazines that should know better. There is no country spelled Columbia. Don't mean to be the spelling police ... it's just a pet peeve.

[northernjohn]

I have never heard of this thing that just having a university degree is the only qualification for Ecuador residency. Sorry, I don't believe it. Cheeky of me to say that to someone who lives there, but really, I would have heard about that.

I do agree it is one of the easiest (of places you might want to live in anyway) nations in the world to get residency. WAY easier than Thailand, that's for sure.

As I mentioned before, the real estate option is tricky. You might have to spend 100,000 dollars to get the paper for 25,000 because it's based on the amount in the tax books, not the sales price.

Depends what kind of visa you have. I have a retirement visa no problem. I am quite sure there is a requirement some where in the paper work for more than just a permanent residency never check in one in Ecuador. Not that the check in process is that big a deal here in Thailand.

Ecuador sounds like a nice place to have a guided tour in if you have no intention of owning a vehicle. We here in Chiang Mai are indeed fortunate to have relatively cheap and easy public transportation. Also the destinations are very flexible.

I don't think are air fares are one tenth of the prices as Ecuador but they defiantly are cheaper particularly in the country. Not sure about the train. Going to see how long they can keep them from derailing.

Not that good with my Geography but I would imagine that there is more mountains in Ecuador. I always liked the view of mountains.

At any rate I don't have a back up plan. If worst comes to worst I can go some place else. But I for one think that every thing will be OK politics is the national sport with a few loose canons carrying guns and hand grenades. It is a big country they are not all over it.