Youth Gangs Rampage In East Timor

[Jose]

I imagine that we've all seen footage of the angry/reckless/destructive behavior of "youth gangs" looting and burning houses in Dili over the last few weeks.

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/SP254092.htm

At the same time, there are reports that housebreakings and petty theft has increased lately in Samui & Pha-Ngan, mostly around school holiday periods.

I wonder - could youth gang violence sprout here someday?

And if so, what could be done now to create a social environment where this kind of destructive mass behaviour may be averted?

jose '-)

Edited June 6, 2006 by Jose

[Galong]

I am concerned that this could happen here. There are so many teenagers in Phuket that don't really have much in the way of a future. The Burmese workers take almost all of the low-paying jobs and I don't think that most of the teenagers here have the sort of education that would make them employable. Plus, a lot of workers from poorer parts of the country (Isan) are working here too.

It sounds like the recipe for disaster. My fingers are crossed.

[highdiver]

I am concerned that this could happen here. There are so many teenagers in Phuket that don't really have much in the way of a future. The Burmese workers take almost all of the low-paying jobs and I don't think that most of the teenagers here have the sort of education that would make them employable. Plus, a lot of workers from poorer parts of the country (Isan) are working here too.

It sounds like the recipe for disaster. My fingers are crossed.

Totaly agree.

The samui culture is changing rapidly along with the hyper development.

The young youth in samui are observing an easy money, get rich quick, life style.

In some families they have gone from poor coconut farmers to milioners in one day because they sold land to farrangs at very high prices.

I am happy for the local people for cashing in and securing the future but it send out a message to the youth that its not a big deal to get rich quickly.

The youth are growing up in an enviroment where money is literaly growing up on the coconut trees.

In Phuket and Samui most young people are not looking for a job they are looking to get rich and as quickly as possible.

The realisation of the dream is not that simple(in most cases you work very hard to get rich) thus they develop a growing resentment to farrangs and driving them to iligal activities.

When one teenager has been lucky in raiding or breaking in and gets away with it, he ususaly will boast to his friends about how easy it was to get cash..... Others will soon follow.

The only solution is education and law. education to prepare them to do business in a modern enviroment and Law inforcemnt by the police. if one kid gets send to jail and the punishment is severe then the others will think twice.

This has been implemented in Las Vegas. where they have one of the best education systems in the US.

[Jose]

The only solution is education and law. education to prepare them to do business in a modern enviroment and Law inforcemnt by the police. if one kid gets send to jail and the punishment is severe then the others will think twice.

This has been implemented in Las Vegas. where they have one of the best education systems in the US.

Yes indeed, America has an excellent education system:

American Gulag

jose '-)

[mosquitoman]

The only solution is education and law. education to prepare them to do business in a modern enviroment and Law inforcemnt by the police. if one kid gets send to jail and the punishment is severe then the others will think twice.

This has been implemented in Las Vegas. where they have one of the best education systems in the US.

I think the last place we shoulkd be looking for guidance in education, law and order, foreign policy etc etc etc... is America

AMERICA HAS FAILED MISERABLY ON ALL THESE ACCOUNTS - GET REAL

[highdiver]

The only solution is education and law. education to prepare them to do business in a modern enviroment and Law inforcemnt by the police. if one kid gets send to jail and the punishment is severe then the others will think twice.

This has been implemented in Las Vegas. where they have one of the best education systems in the US.

I think the last place we shoulkd be looking for guidance in education, law and order, foreign policy etc etc etc... is America

AMERICA HAS FAILED MISERABLY ON ALL THESE ACCOUNTS - GET REAL

I am sorry you are taking this discussion somewhere ellse... it is about the youth problem and not about the way you look at America's place in the world.

I gave an example of Las Vegas way of handling education and keeping youth out of trouble. in a city that is built on get rich quick and easy money. they have been able to lay out a very good education system and a very sron law enforcment that gives the kids a true perspective about life even with all the glow and sparkle and all the money flashing by.

The crime rate of youth in Las Vegas is very low.

In Samui today there is a similler situation. every one belives that its so easy to make money. many of the youth i spoke to think that life is very easy and they are confident that they can make a "hit" in no time....

The youth who look for a short cut go to a very quick way which is crime. The police have other priorities then to check out some minor cases of theft and roberry and soon many youngsters who want to join the high life are finding that crime pays off.

As i said the only solution is to educate and law controll. and if not.... then later on we will all be sorry.

[somchai jones]

I imagine that we've all seen footage of the angry/reckless/destructive behavior of "youth gangs" looting and burning houses in Dili over the last few weeks.

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/SP254092.htm

At the same time, there are reports that housebreakings and petty theft has increased lately in Samui & Pha-Ngan, mostly around school holiday periods.

I wonder - could youth gang violence sprout here someday?

And if so, what could be done now to create a social environment where this kind of destructive mass behaviour may be averted?

jose '-)

Whilst you may be concerned with the youth of Koh Samui, to compare KS with East Timor, as well as putting forward arguments based on what you think could happen in KS, you also have to look at why this is happening in East Timor. Particularly as this is directly linked to its traumatic history.

Without wishing to sound glib, your comparison is naiive to say the least.

[Farma]

I think gang violence is a possibility not just down on the islands but up country as well.

Last night I witnessed 30 of the local lads milling around outside my home. My better half pointed out they were one of the local gangs of unemployed teens. As they moved off baseball bats and other lumps of wood were being held discretely by the pillion riders. One wonders what else was hidden from view.

In some ways this gang violence is already present; it just hasn’t reached the Dili level.

[Jose]

Somchai Jones, open your eyes - the deterioration of societies is happening worldwide, and is not just a failed-state phenomena.

It is even happening in one of the arguably most stable societies: Australia.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200606/s1657069.htm

And as environmental and economic conditions deteriorate in the long run, expect more of this.

jose '-)

[The Dan Sai Kid]

There has been gang violence in Thailand for years and years. It tends to stay within it's own areas and is usually down to territorial differences with other gangs.

I imagine that if things did escalate then the Governemnt would adopt that zero tolerance policy that works so well in the South...

[somchai jones]

I think gang violence is a possibility not just down on the islands but up country as well.

Last night I witnessed 30 of the local lads milling around outside my home. My better half pointed out they were one of the local gangs of unemployed teens. As they moved off baseball bats and other lumps of wood were being held discretely by the pillion riders. One wonders what else was hidden from view.

In some ways this gang violence is already present; it just hasn’t reached the Dili level.

Gang violence is and always has been present in every country.

When I first lived in Bangkok as long as 15 years ago, buses were often disrupted as gangs of teenagers from rival schools fought with baseball bats, etc.

Again, to compare standard youth violence with whats happening in East Timor is misguided and naiive.

Edited June 7, 2006 by somchai jones

[somchai jones]

Somchai Jones, open your eyes - the deterioration of societies is happening worldwide, and is not just a failed-state phenomena.

It is even happening in one of the arguably most stable societies: Australia.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200606/s1657069.htm

And as environmental and economic conditions deteriorate in the long run, expect more of this.

jose '-)

My dear Jose, you're doing it again. You're making sweeping statements and linking events to other events without researching what the cause of each event is.

I couldn't open your links but if it's the recent race riot in Sydney you're referring too, then again it's not a new phenomenom. The Middle Eastern ethnic Australians that were initially attacked and then retaliated echoes what has happened in Australia in the past.

when the Greeks and Italians first arrived in Australia they were called '<deleted>', there was racial discord and gang fights.

When the East/SE Asians were first arriving in Australia, certain youths caused trouble, stirred up to some extent by a certain politician.

These immigrants have now integrated and the racial resentment has now moved onto the newer immigrants.

50 years ago in my own country England there was havoc every bank holiday as rival gangs of youths (Modfs and Rockers) fought on the beach. We then had the moronic football hooligans and we now have young boys (and girls!) whop can't hold their drink causing trouble.

Sorry, I still brand your comparison of East Timor and Koh Samui as at best unresearched and not fully considered and at worst as ridiculous.

[somchai jones]

Somchai Jones, open your eyes - the deterioration of societies is happening worldwide, and is not just a failed-state phenomena.

It is even happening in one of the arguably most stable societies: Australia.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200606/s1657069.htm

And as environmental and economic conditions deteriorate in the long run, expect more of this.

jose '-)

My dear Jose, you're doing it again. You're making sweeping statements and linking events to other events without researching what the cause of each event is.

I couldn't open your links but if it's the recent race riot in Sydney you're referring too, then again it's not a new phenomenom. The Middle Eastern ethnic Australians that were initially attacked and then retaliated echoes what has happened in Australia in the past.

when the Greeks and Italians first arrived in Australia they were called '<deleted>', there was racial discord and gang fights.

When the East/SE Asians were first arriving in Australia, certain youths caused trouble, stirred up to some extent by a certain politician.

These immigrants have now integrated and the racial resentment has now moved onto the newer immigrants.

50 years ago in my own country England there was havoc every bank holiday as rival gangs of youths (Modfs and Rockers) fought on the beach. We then had the moronic football hooligans and we now have young boys (and girls!) whop can't hold their drink causing trouble.

Sorry, I still brand your comparison of East Timor and Koh Samui as at best unresearched and not fully considered and at worst as ridiculous.

I've just managed to open your link and to my amazement your arguement is even more flawed than I considered it to be in assuming that you were referring to the recent race riot.

I see you are in fact referring to a story about aborigonal youths sniffing glue!

This has been going on for years so how you can use it to support your arguement baffles me.

[mosquitoman]

Somchai Jones, open your eyes - the deterioration of societies is happening worldwide, and is not just a failed-state phenomena.

It is even happening in one of the arguably most stable societies: Australia.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200606/s1657069.htm

And as environmental and economic conditions deteriorate in the long run, expect more of this.

jose '-)

My dear Jose, you're doing it again. You're making sweeping statements and linking events to other events without researching what the cause of each event is.

I couldn't open your links but if it's the recent race riot in Sydney you're referring too, then again it's not a new phenomenom. The Middle Eastern ethnic Australians that were initially attacked and then retaliated echoes what has happened in Australia in the past.

when the Greeks and Italians first arrived in Australia they were called '<deleted>', there was racial discord and gang fights.

When the East/SE Asians were first arriving in Australia, certain youths caused trouble, stirred up to some extent by a certain politician.

These immigrants have now integrated and the racial resentment has now moved onto the newer immigrants.

50 years ago in my own country England there was havoc every bank holiday as rival gangs of youths (Modfs and Rockers) fought on the beach. We then had the moronic football hooligans and we now have young boys (and girls!) whop can't hold their drink causing trouble.

Sorry, I still brand your comparison of East Timor and Koh Samui as at best unresearched and not fully considered and at worst as ridiculous.

Hear Hear (or is it here here) Somchai Jones Im 100% with you, on this East Timor and Koh Samui as a comparison are complete and utter nonsense.

Edited June 7, 2006 by mosquitoman

[Jose]

For those with their heads still buried in the sand:

Youth gang violence in the USA, Canada, Australia.

If governments in these prosperous Western nations can't protect their own citizens from crumbling local communities, what chance if it ever happened here?

jose

[somchai jones]

For those with their heads still buried in the sand:

Youth gang violence in the USA, Canada, Australia.

If governments in these prosperous Western nations can't protect their own citizens from crumbling local communities, what chance if it ever happened here?

jose

You've gone from using a war torn state (one of the poorest nations in the world) i.e. East Timor to support your arguement that it's only a matter of time before Koh Samui suffers the same fate to using selected news clips from 3 of the worlds wealthiest nations.

What is your point? You're now saying 'what if it happened here?' .....and?

What if my aunt grew a pair of b#llocks?...... She'd be my uncle.

Edited June 9, 2006 by somchai jones

[Jose]

... it's only a matter of time before Koh Samui suffers the same fate

These are your words, not mine.

Perhaps it would be better if you took another look at my original post - I'm interested in resident opinions on whether gang violence could happen here, as it is happening around the world, and as may be happening in other parts of Thailand.

As for your attempts to engage with me on a personal level, in case you haven't noticed, it definitely does not interest me the least.

jose '-)

[somchai jones]

... it's only a matter of time before Koh Samui suffers the same fate

These are your words, not mine.

Perhaps it would be better if you took another look at my original post - I'm interested in resident opinions on whether gang violence could happen here, as it is happening around the world, and as may be happening in other parts of Thailand.

As for your attempts to engage with me on a personal level, in case you haven't noticed, it definitely does not interest me the least.

jose '-)

I accept that you were looking for opinions as to whether gang violence could happen in Koh Samui/Thailand.

Gang violence is not new to Thailand, it has been happening in Bangkok for years.

Sadly, with the ever increasing development that is taking place in Koh Samui, it is inevitable that crime (including violence) and the many forms it takes will increase.

Whilst the question you pose may be one to be considered, I still think that your initial reference to East Timor is unsuitable and irrelevant to the topic.

In trying to engage you on a personal level, that was not my intention, however, having given considered posts in reply to an original post that I found contentious only to be told to open my eyes and take my head out of the sand may have had some bearing on my language.

Oh well. I guess it's one of those situations where we can agree to disagree.

[Jose]

My apologies if you perceive my comments as personal attacks - that is not my intention.

I have drawn attention to the dramatic East Timor disaster because the violent breakdown of society perhaps should be a major concern to all here, specially long-term expats.

In any case, I am fishing for possible solutions to avert a problem of this magnitude, that as unlikely as it may now seem, would have disastrous consequences for all if it ever occurred here.

My feeling is that the social fabric that allows us to live in harmony, is both strong and fragile.

It is human nature to bond into social groups, but at the same time, fear/greed/ignorance/poverty/hunger can be quite destructive to any society.

With some tangential evidence that all is not well in Samui & Pha-Ngan, what could be done to avert any potential problem?

jose '-)