Local divorce based on bigamy

[Wooryum]

If this has been discussed before, I apologise.

I married a Thai woman 15 years ago in UK, where I'm from. We soon seperated, but never got divorced.

She then returned to Thailand to marry another man from Europe. She claimed she was single before the second wedding.

Then she moved back to Europe with her 'new husband', got residency based on marriage to him, and then divorced him.

So if I want to divorce her here in Thailand (where I live and work), can I do it locally on the grounds of bigamy? Can I get a copy of her 2nd marriage as proof?

I read (on another thread) that I could register our marriage here in Thailand, and then apply for a local divorce. She won't return to Thailand for this.

I'd rather do it locally. What's the best approach?

[RecklessRon]

Assuming this is legit...

Why don't you contact her second 'husband'? I'm certain he'll be interested in knowing that his marriage wasn't legal. If she got a cent from him he can probably get it back. Therefore he may be willing to work with you. If he needs you to testify or sign anything he will likely reciprocate and you can have all the documentation you need to prove infidelity, or abandonment, which you can use as grounds for divorce. He may also be willing to pay, or chip in on, your legal fees to do that (I think you should consider your options and then get a good Thai lawyer).

Also consider she broke a whole lot of laws - the main one being lying to immigration. She stated she was legally married, or single and able to get married (for real), to get permanent residency. That makes the whole thing immigration fraud. She also lied with respect to the marriage license so... she should be willing to bend over backwards to do whatever you like or you can just drop a dime! Then her best-case scenario is being deported, probably banned for life from returning, but she could easily do jail time first.

[sotsira]

Some good points there Ron, a Reckless post!

[Farma]

Without the OP knowing, would it be possible for her to obtain a divorce on grounds of abandonment through the Thai divorce court on her return to Thailand?

[asdecas]

ThaiVisa, better than the News of the Screws...and mercifully Murdoch-free.

[realenglish1]

You can get divorce from for abandonment but what i would do is contact her Tell her what you know and see how you can come to agreeable terms with her.

Mostly to your benefit I believe

You are not going to have any problems she will

[NanLaew]

Assuming this is legit...

Why don't you contact her second 'husband'? I'm certain he'll be interested in knowing that his marriage wasn't legal. If she got a cent from him he can probably get it back. Therefore he may be willing to work with you. If he needs you to testify or sign anything he will likely reciprocate and you can have all the documentation you need to prove infidelity, or abandonment, which you can use as grounds for divorce. He may also be willing to pay, or chip in on, your legal fees to do that (I think you should consider your options and then get a good Thai lawyer).

Also consider she broke a whole lot of laws - the main one being lying to immigration. She stated she was legally married, or single and able to get married (for real), to get permanent residency. That makes the whole thing immigration fraud. She also lied with respect to the marriage license so... she should be willing to bend over backwards to do whatever you like or you can just drop a dime! Then her best-case scenario is being deported, probably banned for life from returning, but she could easily do jail time first.

Why stop there? Short of murder, see if you can conjure up some other obscure laws she may have broken in either of the 3 countries she's involved in. Skipped rent, credit card fraud, even an unpaid store card? Parking tickets! Everyone has unpaid parking tickets! That must be a capital offence in some podunk jurisdiction no? Then maybe you get something at the International Court in the Hague. Get her totally banned from Earth,... forever!!!

Fifteen years and suddenly the OP wants a divorce. Why?

[atyclb]

Assuming this is legit...

Why don't you contact her second 'husband'? I'm certain he'll be interested in knowing that his marriage wasn't legal. If she got a cent from him he can probably get it back. Therefore he may be willing to work with you. If he needs you to testify or sign anything he will likely reciprocate and you can have all the documentation you need to prove infidelity, or abandonment, which you can use as grounds for divorce. He may also be willing to pay, or chip in on, your legal fees to do that (I think you should consider your options and then get a good Thai lawyer).

Also consider she broke a whole lot of laws - the main one being lying to immigration. She stated she was legally married, or single and able to get married (for real), to get permanent residency. That makes the whole thing immigration fraud. She also lied with respect to the marriage license so... she should be willing to bend over backwards to do whatever you like or you can just drop a dime! Then her best-case scenario is being deported, probably banned for life from returning, but she could easily do jail time first.

Why stop there? Short of murder, see if you can conjure up some other obscure laws she may have broken in either of the 3 countries she's involved in. Skipped rent, credit card fraud, even an unpaid store card? Parking tickets! Everyone has unpaid parking tickets! That must be a capital offence in some podunk jurisdiction no? Then maybe you get something at the International Court in the Hague. Get her totally banned from Earth,... forever!!!

Fifteen years and suddenly the OP wants a divorce. Why?

The OP did it purposely to get you all wound up. Some people are actually capable of analyzing a situation and understanding its elements and structure. Its the kind of thing a lawyer would do also, analyze it.

[jimbeam1]

I don't know, but as you were married in England I would Imagine you would have to divorce there.

As NanLaew said after 15yrs, why seek a divorce now. Unless of course you want to remarry.

jb1

[Phoenix1312]

I would think it would be illegal in the UK. I would report her there as well.

[msealey]

Assuming this is legit...

Why don't you contact her second 'husband'? I'm certain he'll be interested in knowing that his marriage wasn't legal. If she got a cent from him he can probably get it back. Therefore he may be willing to work with you. If he needs you to testify or sign anything he will likely reciprocate and you can have all the documentation you need to prove infidelity, or abandonment, which you can use as grounds for divorce. He may also be willing to pay, or chip in on, your legal fees to do that (I think you should consider your options and then get a good Thai lawyer).

Also consider she broke a whole lot of laws - the main one being lying to immigration. She stated she was legally married, or single and able to get married (for real), to get permanent residency. That makes the whole thing immigration fraud. She also lied with respect to the marriage license so... she should be willing to bend over backwards to do whatever you like or you can just drop a dime! Then her best-case scenario is being deported, probably banned for life from returning, but she could easily do jail time first.

Why stop there? Short of murder, see if you can conjure up some other obscure laws she may have broken in either of the 3 countries she's involved in. Skipped rent, credit card fraud, even an unpaid store card? Parking tickets! Everyone has unpaid parking tickets! That must be a capital offence in some podunk jurisdiction no? Then maybe you get something at the International Court in the Hague. Get her totally banned from Earth,... forever!!!

Fifteen years and suddenly the OP wants a divorce. Why?

It came up as a part of the "ask a lawyer" brainstorming session.

[Carrerakiss]

I'm not sure anyone has helped the OP much so far, but I think that what I would do is to first consult a Thai lawyer to find out my options here in Thailand. I'm sorry, I don't know what they are myself.

Secondly, I think the place where this lady is in the most trouble is in the country where she undertook her bigamist marriage, lied to immigration etc. Assuming she is still in that country and wants to remain there, I think I would tell her she needs to co operate with me in every way possible or else I would inform the authorities of what I know.

Whether I would use the second option, which is obviously fairly confrontational, depends on what the thai lawyer tells me. It may be that a simple thai divorce on abandonment grounds could be completed without any fuss or bother.

[fiercesnake]

Thais don't tend to have the same view to marriage as Farangs gravitate to. In Thai society the general feeling is that if you have been separated for longer than 6 months then you are divorced already so some don't even bother with the formalities of going to the Amphur office. She may have felt that she was already divorced as separation is adequate. Though in this case it sounds like a visa to make money, as many Thais want the big money from overseas though unlike Filipinos don't necessarily want to leave their beloved homeland!

A lot of foreigners from developed countries have a strong tendency to take the law as an absolute as seen by RecklessRon's post above. In Thailand the law is a lot more "fluid", much more open to interpretation and certainly "adjustable" depending on who and how much.

This should be not too difficult in Thailand as divorces are usually easily obtained without a great need to prove too much. Best place to start is the Amphur office in Bang Rak as they specialise in foreigners in Bangkok. Although you could go through any other local Amphur the local staff are often not clued up to foreigners and will actively work to get rid of you and most times give you completely wrong information or advice. Failing this, see a local lawyer.

Overall it should not be your problem, rather as realenglish1 suggests she may have a problem in time, as developed world authorities do take a stronger view on compliance with the law. Good luck, I'm sure you will be fine to sort it!

[liddelljohn]

Bigamy is a very serious offence in UK and usually carries a 12-18 months prison sentence ,multiple bigamists can get a longer sentence ..she may also be prosecuted for fraud and immigration offences .

[rotary]

Contact her, tell her you are ready to bring everything out in the open, then ask her what it is worth to her to have you stay quiet and give you a simple divorce. You could wreck her life if you played your cards just right

[Wooryum]

Great response, thanks to all.

A few points : yes this is legit, yes I want to remarry (hence the urgency), no she never divorced me, and she refuses to return to Thailand.

She may be reading this forum, so excuse the lack of further details. We have been in touch by email, and she wants me to arrange the divorce, but I think she should arrange it, and pay for it.

I could give her an ultimatum: get the divorce done in the UK, or face the music.

But if I did arrange it in Thailand myself, would I have to register my marriage to her here first to start the divorce process? And would she need to show up for that?

Just looking at my options. Appreciate all the help.

Get her totally banned from Earth forever!? hopefully it won't come to that...

[atyclb]

Contact her, tell her you are ready to bring everything out in the open, then ask her what it is worth to her to have you stay quiet and give you a simple divorce. You could wreck her life if you played your cards just right

It depends on whether or not he has any animosity and how much. He could just insist she cover in advance all costs involved.

She did things the according to thai traditional values, overlooked, forgot, lied. distorted and omitted truth/reality.

Would be careful because there is another concept known as blackmail.

[HerbalEd]

You can get divorce from for abandonment but what i would do is contact her Tell her what you know and see how you can come to agreeable terms with her.

Mostly to your benefit I believe

You are not going to have any problems she will

But watch your back.

[ABCer]

If, repeat IF, both marriages were Legal (not the crappy village ceremony) and she got her EU residency on the basis of second marriage - she might be in trouble.

Would be nice to co-operate with her second husband. You both could get her in real hot water.

I know I would. With great pleasure.

And no need to watch your back. Let her watch hers. She may be deported or even jailed for tricks like this.

[iamariva1957]

Assuming this is legit...

Why don't you contact her second 'husband'? I'm certain he'll be interested in knowing that his marriage wasn't legal. If she got a cent from him he can probably get it back. Therefore he may be willing to work with you. If he needs you to testify or sign anything he will likely reciprocate and you can have all the documentation you need to prove infidelity, or abandonment, which you can use as grounds for divorce. He may also be willing to pay, or chip in on, your legal fees to do that (I think you should consider your options and then get a good Thai lawyer).

Also consider she broke a whole lot of laws - the main one being lying to immigration. She stated she was legally married, or single and able to get married (for real), to get permanent residency. That makes the whole thing immigration fraud. She also lied with respect to the marriage license so... she should be willing to bend over backwards to do whatever you like or you can just drop a dime! Then her best-case scenario is being deported, probably banned for life from returning, but she could easily do jail time first.

This post is absolutely right! You should try and get a hold of the second husband! That is the first step and then you both can nail her to the wall!

[Pinot]

Getting her to do it and getting her to pay for it are two different things.

I would get it done ASAP and send her a bill. Legal help is available.

[Wooryum]

If, repeat IF, both marriages were Legal (not the crappy village ceremony) and she got her EU residency on the basis of second marriage - she might be in trouble.

Would be nice to co-operate with her second husband. You both could get her in real hot water.

I know I would. With great pleasure.

And no need to watch your back. Let her watch hers. She may be deported or even jailed for tricks like this.

Both marriages are lega/formal. I know mine is as I have the UK certificate, and she couldn't get a phony Thai marriage certificate verified and translated into English to present to an EU embassy for residency, I'm sure. Too risky.

And what if the second husband was in on it? He could have done anything to help get his lovely back to his home country..

[tiffanystoyz]

kill two birds one stone write immigration in the UK explain what's up She goes to jail on conviction then divorce her here she comes back and jailed here too .

[smotherb]

Assuming this is legit...

Why don't you contact her second 'husband'? I'm certain he'll be interested in knowing that his marriage wasn't legal. If she got a cent from him he can probably get it back. Therefore he may be willing to work with you. If he needs you to testify or sign anything he will likely reciprocate and you can have all the documentation you need to prove infidelity, or abandonment, which you can use as grounds for divorce. He may also be willing to pay, or chip in on, your legal fees to do that (I think you should consider your options and then get a good Thai lawyer).

Also consider she broke a whole lot of laws - the main one being lying to immigration. She stated she was legally married, or single and able to get married (for real), to get permanent residency. That makes the whole thing immigration fraud. She also lied with respect to the marriage license so... she should be willing to bend over backwards to do whatever you like or you can just drop a dime! Then her best-case scenario is being deported, probably banned for life from returning, but she could easily do jail time first.

Why stop there? Short of murder, see if you can conjure up some other obscure laws she may have broken in either of the 3 countries she's involved in. Skipped rent, credit card fraud, even an unpaid store card? Parking tickets! Everyone has unpaid parking tickets! That must be a capital offence in some podunk jurisdiction no? Then maybe you get something at the International Court in the Hague. Get her totally banned from Earth,... forever!!!

Fifteen years and suddenly the OP wants a divorce. Why?

NanLaew are you the OP's wife?

[NanLaew]

The OP has responded and wants to get married so needs to be 'free and clear' to do that.

The 'Earth ban' was a jibe at some earlier 'advice' that appeared to assume that the OP had some serious axe grinding in mind which was never stated in the OP. The OP simply wants to clear the decks and move on with his life.

Since the OP;s marriage is in the UK and assuming the ex- is also living (mostly) in Europe, then a divorce in the UK would be best. Of course, she probably no longer has a visa to allow her to enter the UK to do that. Maybe a UK lawyer can advise on an uncontested divorce where one of the party's is unable to personally attend due to UK immigration laws.

However, if the OP and the ex- are both MOSTLY living in Thailand, then maybe registration of the UK marriage in Thailand FIRST, Followed by the divorce. Neither has to be done at the same Amphur if that makes things more convenient but both parties should attend, along with a local lawyer to ensure that the Amphur's don't think there's something totally fishy going on.

Good luck to the OP on sorting it out and please post how it gets resolved.

Now we can expect the more bitter and twisted and anal politically correct members to chime in with opinions on the OP aiding and abetting...?

Nanya bizniz. The OP just wants to move on with his life.

[Wooryum]

The OP has responded and wants to get married so needs to be 'free and clear' to do that.

The 'Earth ban' was a jibe at some earlier 'advice' that appeared to assume that the OP had some serious axe grinding in mind which was never stated in the OP. The OP simply wants to clear the decks and move on with his life.

Since the OP;s marriage is in the UK and assuming the ex- is also living (mostly) in Europe, then a divorce in the UK would be best. Of course, she probably no longer has a visa to allow her to enter the UK to do that. Maybe a UK lawyer can advise on an uncontested divorce where one of the party's is unable to personally attend due to UK immigration laws.

However, if the OP and the ex- are both MOSTLY living in Thailand, then maybe registration of the UK marriage in Thailand FIRST, Followed by the divorce. Neither has to be done at the same Amphur if that makes things more convenient but both parties should attend, along with a local lawyer to ensure that the Amphur's don't think there's something totally fishy going on.

Good luck to the OP on sorting it out and please post how it gets resolved.

Now we can expect the more bitter and twisted and anal politically correct members to chime in with opinions on the OP aiding and abetting...?

Nanya bizniz. The OP just wants to move on with his life.

I'm gonna stick with the ultimatum I gave her to get the divorce done in UK, or else! No animosity from me, I haven't lost anything of any value at all to her (except my freedom to marry).

From the replies, I sense there are a few members here who would love to have such an opportunity to stick it to their ex's ...

Will post the outcome, plain or sordid, when I know it.

[Mario2008]

Are you sure she didn't divorce you abroad?

Living in Thailand you can divorce her in Thailand, based on adultery. (Her other marriage, if indeed the case, is void). But would probably need to register the UK marriage first.

[inthepink]

kill two birds one stone write immigration in the UK explain what's up She goes to jail on conviction then divorce her here she comes back and jailed here too .

She won't get jailed here but she might get time in the UK if the second (illegal marriage) was intended to deceive immigration. On the other hand, the second marriage took place in Thailand so I can't see how she could be prosecuted for bigamy in the UK.

[Wooryum]

Are you sure she didn't divorce you abroad?

Living in Thailand you can divorce her in Thailand, based on adultery. (Her other marriage, if indeed the case, is void). But would probably need to register the UK marriage first.

She has said she didn't divorce me, which I believe. Anyway, I can prove I'm her wife, so doesn't she need to prove otherwise with a divorce certificate (which can be verified if it exists)?

It seems her current residency in EU is based on a falsification. She's not legally married to the second husband she got residency through.

I'll ask the Amphur office if they can check her marriage record for any divorce from me.

[Mario2008]

Based on what you tell it is not likely that she divorced you, but it is possible and you should check. However If she specifically said she didn't divorce you there is little doubt about that. In all likelihood she took the easy way out with her marriage to you not registered in Thailand, with now serious consequences for her.

I hope she doesn't have children with her other spouse, which will complicate things in an already complicated situation.

I would get a divorce as soon as possible.