Cell Phone Usage Banned At Petrol Pumps

[corkscrew]

Why is cell phone usage prohibited at petrol pumps?

[Phil Conners]

It has been the case all over the world for years, the only surprise is why it hasn't happened in Thailand before.

Supposedly it is a matter of the radio waves and fire/explosion risk.

Anyway, there's a program on Discovery Channel, "Myth Busters" who decided to check if there is any way a cell phone could cause fire or explosions and though they tried everything, including leaving a cell phone in a small box full of gasolin fumes they were unable to cause any reaction.

[terdsak_12]

Apparenlty some bloke burst into flames quite a few years ago resulting in the ban. I ignore it always.

[taxexile]

http://

i would have thought that the risk would be greater with the static spark that is often generated when you get out of a car and touch the roof or door handle.

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toyota vigo 4 door 4wd ect 3.0d scratched metallic black with leather upholstery and dangly garland on the rear view mirror and cheap tesco steering wheel cover in black and beige in thailand. shanks pony in the united kingdom.

Edited June 7, 2006 by taxexile

[tigerbeer]

i thought there is more risk to smoking in the gas stations which seem to be ok in LOS. although banned.

[corkscrew]

The crossed out key probably means that the engine should be off....OR does it mean that you should not lock/unlock your car with your remote key while the gas is pumping?

The no-smoking one is obvious.

What about the no photo one? Flash camera?

[Tywais]

Apparenlty some bloke burst into flames quite a few years ago resulting in the ban. I ignore it always.

Actually the concern is with the battery and either a short or component failure (very small chance). The part in bold was a little peculiar though.

"No laughing matter, apparently, nor should we suppose Motorola is trying to pull our legs. Similar cautions have been issued by other mobile phone manufacturers, though industry spokesmen have more recently begun downplaying them, saying the actual risk is very slim, especially with newer and better-constructed models."

"Still, in accordance with the maxim "'Tis better to be safe than sorry," signs forbidding the use of cell phones near gas pumps are becoming increasingly common in various parts of the world. Shell International explains its new policy in Asian countries thus: "Although driving whilst using a cellular phone is perfectly safe, we do not allow them to be used on the forecourt [of a service station] in case an electronic fault in the phone causes a spark.""

"From 2000 to 2004, oil companies recommended placing cell phone warning signs at gas stations. The probable reason for the recommendation was due to safety instructions in cell phone manufacturer documentation. Typically the documentation contained a warning to turn off your cell phone in potentially explosive environments, such as gas stations and fuel or chemical storage facilities. Since 2004, when it became apparent that static discharge was the culprit, fire regulations for gas stations recommended signs warning against getting in and out of your car during fueling."

Edited June 7, 2006 by tywais

[britmaveric]

Total rubbish....mobile can't set off an explosion at a gas pump. However that being said they can enforce their own rules when its their petrol station.

[peterjackson]

Hey

Britmaveric, I don't like taking issue with anyone, but when it's a safety issue, I make an exception. Although the risk of an actual ignition from a cell 'phone whilst pumping gas, is very low, it does exist. The risk in increased is the 'phone starts to receive a call.

The 'fumes' are what ignites, in fact when I was a Safety Officer for an oil company, I used to do a demonstration where I extinguished a lighted match by immersing it into petrol. There is a way that this has to be done, to make it work, but thats down to knowing the characteristics of the mediums you are working with.

For this very reason, anything being taken into a mine where gases/fumes are present, have to be intrinsically safe, a standard cell 'phone is not intrinsically safe and by definition is a risk/liability, no matter how small.

To be totally safe, it should state that the 'phone should be turned off, whilst you are in the petrol station, but thats just not going to happen.

So, whilst the risk is exceptionally small, there is still a risk.

When I first came to the USA, it opened my eyes to see so many people smoking whilst on the petrol/gas station forecourt. Trying to get cell 'phone useage stopped whilst on a forecourt, is a very, very uphill battle.

Coincidentally, the chances of any ignited gas spreading to anyone else, other than the cell 'phone user and the passengers in that vehicle are also very small, so the risk is really limited to the user who wishes to 'run the gauntlet'.

There is a much greater and real risk from someone going back into their vehicle for something, whilst pumping gas. This kind of explosion happens on a regular basis. In the USA last year over 1000 times.

Kind Regards

Peter

[wilko]

Hey

Britmaveric, I don't like taking issue with anyone, but when it's a safety issue, I make an exception. Although the risk of an actual ignition from a cell 'phone whilst pumping gas, is very low, it does exist. The risk in increased is the 'phone starts to receive a call.

Was there not also a problem in Europe where you pay in the shop, that the phones were interferring with the transmission of information from the pump to the till? (cash register)

[taxexile]

There is a much greater and real risk from someone going back into their vehicle for something, whilst pumping gas. This kind of explosion happens on a regular basis. In the USA last year over 1000 times.

how come ? could you elaborate on that , and i thought that , at least in the usa , pump nozzles and filler apertures on cars were designed so that there was minimal leakage of fumes and vapour.

can diesel fumes ignite so easily ? or is it just petrol/gasoline ?

Edited June 8, 2006 by taxexile

[wilko]

There is a much greater and real risk from someone going back into their vehicle for something, whilst pumping gas. This kind of explosion happens on a regular basis. In the USA last year over 1000 times.

how come ? could you elaborate on that , and i thought that , at least in the usa , pump nozzles and filler apertures on cars were designed so that there was minimal leakage of fumes and vapour.

can diesel fumes ignite so easily ? or is it just petrol/gasoline ?

minimal = some........

Petrol ignites best when mixed with lots of lovely oxygen of which there is a lot in air. D'you ever hear of people blowing themselves up with domestic bonfires? They douse with petrol and then leave it to soak.....it doesn't so much soak as turns into an invisible cloud of vapour around the fire which ignites much more efficiently than a pool of liquid petrol, thus turning a small amount of fuel into a powerful bomb.... reducing the ignitor etc to charcoal........Ever worked in a cotton mill - same problem?

Diesel is less flammable.....you could quite easily dunk a lit match in some diesel - NO PLEASE DON'T!!!! to make it explode in your car, it is fine sprayed, mixed with air mixed with air mixed with air into an engine and then compressed very quickly - BOOM!

Edited June 8, 2006 by wilko

[peterjackson]

Hey

Most vehicle interiors are made of materials which create static electricity easily. So, if you re-enter the vehicle, after discharging yourself, there is the opportunity to re-charge yourself and then on going back to the pump, if you then discharge, there is a high likelyhood of vapour being in that area, which could easily ignite.

In fact, I was just filling my car up tonight and after reading this thread this morning, made a note to read the signs on the petrol pump. In fact the BP station I used, says on it, Turn Off Cell Phones and leave them inside the vehicle. Although, this is the correct advice, I don't think anyone is going to do it, but it will stop any lawsuits, by 'ambulance chasers'.

Kind regards

Peter

[taxexile]

thanks PJ and wilko , lots of helpful info there.

[PeaceBlondie]

Does the above information raise any possibility that my motorcycle accident in Mae Taeng was caused not by a dog in the road, but some petrol fumes 300 meters back, or by Somchai being on the cell phone as we passed him?

[taxexile]

what was the nature of your accident?

[dvk1951]

Total rubbish....mobile can't set off an explosion at a gas pump. However that being said they can enforce their own rules when its their petrol station.

Brit,

Giving you the benefit of doubt , can only assume that someone neglected to don their thinking cap before typing , or, heaven forbid, it is latent 'trollistic' tendancies making an appearance.

[johnh101]

Total rubbish....mobile can't set off an explosion at a gas pump. However that being said they can enforce their own rules when its their petrol station.

Sorry Brit if I disagree with you.

I have seen the Safety Video which shows a woman in the states stepping out of her car, opening the petrol tank, she grabs the petrol pump handle, her phone rings she leans in the car and picks up her phone as she answer the phone she insterts the pump into the tank and................<deleted> BOOM. Luckily I belive she only suffered very minor burns to her hand.

Static Electricity and highly flamable gases do not mix.

[grahamb]

Total rubbish....mobile can't set off an explosion at a gas pump. However that being said they can enforce their own rules when its their petrol station.

Sorry Brit if I disagree with you.

I have seen the Safety Video which shows a woman in the states stepping out of her car, opening the petrol tank, she grabs the petrol pump handle, her phone rings she leans in the car and picks up her phone as she answer the phone she insterts the pump into the tank and................<deleted> BOOM. Luckily I belive she only suffered very minor burns to her hand.

Static Electricity and highly flamable gases do not mix.

I'm with Brit on this one. I've not seen that safety video but all the evidence I've seen is that it is static electricity that causes the explosions.

If the risk of a spark from a phone is that high, why do petrol stations not ban all electronic devices?

[Pink Mist]

it's not static, it's the battery connection that's the risk, miniscule but still a risk.

receiving a call in reality cant really cause a problem unless it increases current flow between battery (due to LCD screen ) and phone and the connection is iffy and a spark could possibly occur and if the petrol vapour oxygen mixture was right then boom, me I reckon the odds of winning lotto are shorter than that scenario

[raro]

Hey

Britmaveric, I don't like taking issue with anyone, but when it's a safety issue, I make an exception. Although the risk of an actual ignition from a cell 'phone whilst pumping gas, is very low, it does exist. The risk in increased is the 'phone starts to receive a call.

in other words....to enforce the ban efficiently and to ban the maximum risk of receiving a phone call, phones must be switched off before entering the gas statin, right?

Good luck on that one and accept that life has a certain risk. No offense, but there are so many far more dangerous scenarious around operating a car that this one is quite on the bottom of my priority list...

[corkscrew]

Hey

Britmaveric, I don't like taking issue with anyone, but when it's a safety issue, I make an exception. Although the risk of an actual ignition from a cell 'phone whilst pumping gas, is very low, it does exist. The risk in increased is the 'phone starts to receive a call.

in other words....to enforce the ban efficiently and to ban the maximum risk of receiving a phone call, phones must be switched off before entering the gas statin, right?

Good luck on that one and accept that life has a certain risk. No offense, but there are so many far more dangerous scenarious around operating a car that this one is quite on the bottom of my priority list...

I think that the actual process of switching off the phone while driving into a station would be a million times more dangerous than risking an explosion.

[Pink Mist]

here in Oz the phone is considered safe while in the car, it's only the act of refuelling with a mobile in the claw that's a problem

[peterjackson]

Hey

The risk of explosion is localised and relative to the amount of vapour that has mixed with oxygen in the air.

So, if you drove into a petrol station, stopped your vehicle and then turned off your 'phone before exiting your vehicle, the risk is removed.

The basic worry, is not that a ringing 'phone inside the vehicle could ignite the ambient vapour, it is the theory that if the 'phone rings, the user would enter the vehicle and answer the call, thereby increasing the possibility of a static induced charge on their person or answering the call in proximity to the vapour near the filler area.

Similarly, carrying the 'phone on your person and having it ring, whilst filling and in proximity to the filler area, could again in certain circumstances cause ignition.

As I have said previously, the actual chances are small, but do exist.

I personally don't turn off my cell whilst filling, but always leave it in the vehicle and would never re-enter the vehicle whilst filling the vehicle.

It's a free world, you make your own choices.

Regards

Peter

[Phil Conners]

You guys must obviously have missed my prevoius post!

"Myth Busters" from Discovery Channel recently tried everything they could to ignite gasolin gasses using a cell phone. Phones were put into a box full of gasoline fumes and the phone called from another phone. Different models and setups were tried, even very old and partly disassembled phones, and they had to give up in the end.

It's a MYTH and it's BUSTED.

Edited June 8, 2006 by madsere

[peterjackson]

Hey

Only busted in their experiment. The risk is there and I have personally demonstrated it for a Safety Video produced by the oil company I worked for, albeit in 1990.

Furthermore, the area of Mine Safety is much more strict than petrol forecourts and cell 'phones are banned, purely for the fact they are not intrinsically safe.

Regards

Peter

[Tywais]

You guys must obviously have missed my prevoius post!

"Myth Busters"

I don't think anyone missed it but "Myth Busters" and "Scientific Method" just don't go together. The issue is not under normal circumstances but the abnormal instance of sparks generated from failed battery, connection or components or even the plastic case picking up a static charge. A good example of an unusual incident was the case of a cell phone catching fire due to faulty batteries. That could certainly create a problem at a fuel pump. These are all extremely low possibilities but one can not say impossible.

[britmaveric]

Funny enough from what I see most yank petrol stations don't have this ban in effect.

[stumonster]

concerning static hazards at fuel stations

http://www.snopes.com/autos/hazards/static.asp

[corkscrew]

Funny enough from what I see most yank petrol stations don't have this ban in effect.

I agree, when I am in America I have never seen this 'stroke/cellphone' sign in a petrol station.