Where to find tanned leather/cowhide for handicrafts

[properjob]

I am fairly certain that there must be a Chiang Mai street filled with shops that sell leather hides to shoe makers. I know where they are in Bangkok, but haven't found any leather dealers in Chiang Mai. What I need is tanned leather cowhide, already dyed. I use it to make musical instrument straps.

Can anyone point me to leather dealer stores?

Thanks,

pj

[INDI12]

Chang moi rd one way street) corner of old mikes burger. Down that rd on right side is a leather remnant shop. Don't know how big pc they have. Normally is all small bits. But they may know where to send u..

[properjob]

Thanks, Indi. Sounds like a good starting point for the search

[FolkGuitar]

That shop on Chiang Moi also has large, full-sized shoulder, sides, and backs, of different leathers, but most are chrome-tanned leather rather than vegetable tanned.

[properjob]

That shop on Chiang Moi also has large, full-sized shoulder, sides, and backs, of different leathers, but most are chrome-tanned leather rather than vegetable tanned.

I don't need very large pieces for what I do. In fact, in Bangkok I often end up with pieces about four feet long and a little over two feet wide, with two elongated holes in the middle. Yep, the hide from across the cow's face, eye holes and all.

What is chrome-tanned? Is it something to be avoided?

pj

Edited April 10, 2014 by properjob

[FolkGuitar]

That shop on Chiang Moi also has large, full-sized shoulder, sides, and backs, of different leathers, but most are chrome-tanned leather rather than vegetable tanned.

I don't need very large pieces for what I do. In fact, in Bangkok I often end up with pieces about four feet long and a little over two feet wide, with two elongated holes in the middle. Yep, the hide from across the cow's face, eye holes and all.

What is chrome-tanned? Is it something to be avoided?

pj

Four feet long and two feet wide? Not very large pieces? Hmmmmmm..... Did you perhaps mean inches? Most cows I've come across don't have faces four FEET wide! LOL! I'll assume you meant to write inches!

The shop on Chiang Moi has big boxes out front with nothing but smaller scraps of leather that should fit your needs well. 5"-8" long, a few inches wide, in a variety of colors.

Chrome-tanned leather is the typical product used for garment leather and upholstery use. Very durable. Usually much softer and more flexible than vegetable-tanned hides, but not a durable for hard use... for example, saddles, bridles, shoes and boots, leather that gets tooled with fancy designs, etc. Chrome-tanned would be for jackets, handbags, sofa and chair covers, etc. Not something to worry about unless you plan to try to mold it to shape or carve fancy designs into it.

[Puwa]

Try Charoen Sin just west of PRC on kaew nawarat road.

[properjob]

Four feet long and two feet wide? Not very large pieces? Hmmmmmm..... Did you perhaps mean inches? Most cows I've come across don't have faces four FEET wide! LOL! I'll assume you meant to write inches!

No, I meant feet. If you imagine a steer and cut the hide off the neck from above one shoulder, around the face to the other shoulder, you get a long, narrow piece with two eye holes in it.

Or, at least, that was MY interpretation of the pieces I bought

Edited April 10, 2014 by properjob

[properjob]

Try Charoen Sin just west of PRC on kaew nawarat road.

Can you expand on this for me please? Is Charoen Sin a business or a street? And what is PRC (I don't think it's People's Republic of China, unless we're talking near the Chinese embassy).

[I Like Thai]

This poster may be able to help

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/717963-looking-for-a-business-partner/

[FolkGuitar]

Four feet long and two feet wide? Not very large pieces? Hmmmmmm..... Did you perhaps mean inches? Most cows I've come across don't have faces four FEET wide! LOL! I'll assume you meant to write inches!

No, I meant feet. If you imagine a steer and cut the hide off the neck from above one shoulder, around the face to the other shoulder, you get a long, narrow piece with two eye holes in it.

Or, at least, that was MY interpretation of the pieces I bought

I can honestly say I've never seen leather sold like that. Very unusual. If you look at THIS diagram, these are the most commonly sold cuts for cowhide, while THIS is the diagram for the cuts sold from horsehide. Sheepskin, lambskin, goatskin and pig skin are generally sold as full hides. Snake skins and alligator skins can be had in various sized pieces. None that I've ever seen for sale have had heads attached.

I don't think I've ever seen face hide being sold anywhere, and I've been a leather hobbyist for many years. Where did you find the hides with the eye holes in them?

[properjob]

I can honestly say I've never seen leather sold like that. Very unusual. If you look at THIS diagram, these are the most commonly sold cuts for cowhide, while THIS is the diagram for the cuts sold from horsehide. Sheepskin, lambskin, goatskin and pig skin are generally sold as full hides. Snake skins and alligator skins can be had in various sized pieces. None that I've ever seen for sale have had heads attached.

I don't think I've ever seen face hide being sold anywhere, and I've been a leather hobbyist for many years. Where did you find the hides with the eye holes in them?

I only have one piece here now. See the photograph, in which about 9 inches or more have been cut off the top, and maybe 18 inches off the right side of the piece. I recall other pieces in which the two long holes were much smaller - but these ones are so long and so far apart I'm now wondering if they're from where the ears might have been. You might be able to tell I'm no expert! But the two holes are a feature of several pieces I bought like this. Thanks for the chart; I really can't see where my pieces correspond to it!

I got them in Bangkok, on Rama IV, where there are leather dealers on both sides of the street where the street curves after passing Klong Toey market and before you get to the big BMW showroom (which is at the Rama IV end of Sukhumvit Soi 24).

[Puwa]

Try Charoen Sin just west of PRC on kaew nawarat road.

Can you expand on this for me please? Is Charoen Sin a business or a street? And what is PRC (I don't think it's People's Republic of China, unless we're talking near the Chinese embassy).

Sure, here you go

http://goo.gl/maps/YmOXk

Oh and PRC=Prince Royal's College

Edited April 10, 2014 by Puwa

[properjob]

Thanks, PUWA. I'm not very good with the acronyms

[FolkGuitar]

I can honestly say I've never seen leather sold like that. Very unusual. If you look at THIS diagram, these are the most commonly sold cuts for cowhide, while THIS is the diagram for the cuts sold from horsehide. Sheepskin, lambskin, goatskin and pig skin are generally sold as full hides. Snake skins and alligator skins can be had in various sized pieces. None that I've ever seen for sale have had heads attached.

I don't think I've ever seen face hide being sold anywhere, and I've been a leather hobbyist for many years. Where did you find the hides with the eye holes in them?

I only have one piece here now. See the photograph, in which about 9 inches or more have been cut off the top, and maybe 18 inches off the right side of the piece. I recall other pieces in which the two long holes were much smaller - but these ones are so long and so far apart I'm now wondering if they're from where the ears might have been. You might be able to tell I'm no expert! But the two holes are a feature of several pieces I bought like this. Thanks for the chart; I really can't see where my pieces correspond to it!

I got them in Bangkok, on Rama IV, where there are leather dealers on both sides of the street where the street curves after passing Klong Toey market and before you get to the big BMW showroom (which is at the Rama IV end of Sukhumvit Soi 24).

LOL! These are called 'range scars' in the leather trade. Not the face at all. Often you'll find old brands, actual scars, or holes (such as in your hide) where the animal was injured in the stock yards and they cut away diseased skin. This is a piece of 'belly' cut from a small animal. It's the least expensive cut of leather. Judging by the width of it, the leather is probably fairly thin too, and from a smaller low grade animal (which is why they had to cut away so much of the belly to get to the better, thicker leather of the 'side.' The Horween Leather Cut chart from the previous post is based on extremely high quality steer hide that the Horween Company purchases, hence they are able to use more of the 'back' in their cutting patterns, leaving less for the belly cut. The leather found in back and side cuts is much thicker than what is found in the belly cuts.

Edited April 10, 2014 by FolkGuitar

[properjob]

Maybe I should be embarrassed, but I'm just amused

However, your explanation doesn't explain why the pieces I have bought have ALL had precisely two cuts like those never one or three or four, and always in line with the long side of the leather cut. Nor is the leather thin. I'm perfectly comfortable learning I was wrong about the leather's source, but I'm not convinced of your take on it either.

But in any case, where it comes from isn't important to me. For my needs, its quality and size are perfect - and it's inexpensive.

I'll check out the store you mentioned, thanks.

[bamboozled]

There's another shop on Thaphae Rd almost at the gate on the right side. It has a green side that says "Gems" and a lot of bags and suitcases displayed. They sell a fair bit of supplies and leather though you wouldn't know from the outside.

[FolkGuitar]

Maybe I should be embarrassed, but I'm just amused

Don't be embarrassed! Most people know very little about leather. Your assumptions made sense.

However, your explanation doesn't explain why the pieces I have bought have ALL had precisely two cuts......

This being Thailand, it very well might be that they were removing ownership brandings because the cows were stolen. This isn't uncommon, even in the US when you buy hides from private sales.

Nor is the leather thin.

'Thin' is relative to the rest of the hide. On some larger hides the leather in the 'Double Bend' cut might get as thick as 1/2" while the 'Belly' cut from the same hide would be less than 1/8" thick. This is why different parts of the hide are used for different purposes. The leather is thicker, denser, stronger, etc. in the back hindquarters than the front shoulders, and weakest in the belly section. It's why the belly is the least expensive cut of cowhide. Leather is usually measured in 'ounces' though, rather than in inches. I'm using the inch conversions as I figured most folks wouldn't know that 6oz leather was about 1/8" thick. I've been working leather for the past 50 years as a hobby. I don't know everything about it, but I do know a bit.

[properjob]

Thanks, FG, for all the tips and the feedback and the education! Thanks, Bamboozled for the 'new' shop tip. I'll get into town after the water-throwing has subsided and have a good look.

I'm a little surprised that there isn't a neighbourhood cluster of shops selling leather hides. Maybe the Chiang Mai market for leather raw materials just isn't that big.

I appreciate all the help,

pj

[bamboozled]

You can order it from Bkk and get it shipped here for 60 baht...overnight. I've never actually called in an order (they told me I could do that and one guy does speak English) but I have sent a big roll of about 250/300 feet for that price after buying it in the shop. This is on Charoenrat Rd near Wongwienyai. I think you can also order it through Gems shop, almost sure of it. Of course the price will be a little higher.

[bamboozled]

...rereading my post "fair bit of supplies and leather" makes it sound like they don't have much. In fact, they have quite a bit of leather.

[properjob]

There's another shop on Thaphae Rd almost at the gate on the right side. It has a green side that says "Gems" and a lot of bags and suitcases displayed. They sell a fair bit of supplies and leather though you wouldn't know from the outside.

Found it on Google Earth street view, so I know exactly where you're talking about. Thanks

[Torrens54]

Interesting Posts!

Thanks to all, enjoyed reading all the comments, never thought about getting hold of leather but have now decided to see if I can get the Arms on an imported Leather Lounge and chairs recovered, I've had it for about 25 years and the arm rests are showing a bit of wear.

Thanks again!

[TheFox]

Anyone had any luck finding vegetable tanned leather either in CM or BKK? Would be nice for making cuirbouilli.

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[FolkGuitar]

As long as you aren't in need of full sides for complete armor, the leather shop on Sri Donchai road will sell it to you. There are now two of them, owned by the same fellow. He can be found in the shop on the south side of the street. If you do need quantity, he can order it for you. He usually has good quality vegetable tanned cowhide, as well as a good stock of exotics for inlays.

[TheFox]

FolkGuitar thanks, that sounds great. How can I locate the Sri Donchai shop more precisely please?

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[cheeryble]

Folkguitar

You seem to be best acquainted with leather and were speaking of the chart of cuts and how top quality they were..

I have found Timberland clothes and boots to be of excellent lasting quality.

I bought one of their belts in England, it must be 12 years ago.

It is fairly thick and fairly wide leather, like a jeans belt.

It was quite expensive, but here's the thing.

It still looks good and I have worn it well over 90% of the days for this 12 years.

It shows no sign of wearing out.

I compare this to a belt I bought in Paragon a couple years ago.

Before long it had absorbed a sort of sweat stain on the back, and had stiffened up.

I tried a good dose of Seal Oil but it just ain't the same.

Is it possible to get hold of leather like this in Thailand if one wanted to make up high quality items or perhaps use old buckles and replace the leather?

(Would also like a well made phone pouch to fit on a belt)

ps how does one specify high quality hide like this?

I've heard do bridle leather.....is that it?

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Edited April 13, 2014 by cheeryble

[FolkGuitar]

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FolkGuitar thanks, that sounds great. How can I locate the Sri Donchai shop more precisely please?

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The 'main' shop with the older brother is located on the south side of Sri Donchai Rd, about two blocks down from the corner of the moat, facing the 7-Eleven on the north side. There 'may' be a Bangkok Bank branch right next to the 7-Eleven. The 7-Eleven and the bank face the leather shop. He now owns a second shop further down Sri Donchai on the north side of the street that his brother runs. I haven't spent much time in that shop so I don't know what his stock of leather is like.

Folkguitar
You seem to be best acquainted with leather and were speaking of the chart of curs and how high quality they were..

I have found Timberland clothes and boots to be of excellent lasting quality.
I bought one of their belts in England, it must be 12 years ago.
It is fairly thick and fairly wide leather, like a jeans belt.
It was quite expensive, but here's the thing.
It still looks good and I have worn it well over 90% of the days for this 12 years.
It shows no sign of wearing out.

I compare this to a belt I bought in Paragon a couple years ago.
Before long it had absorbed a sort of sweat stain on the back, and had stiffened up.
I tried a good dose of Seal Oil but it just ain't the same.

Is it possible to get hold of leather like this in Thailand if one wanted to make up high quality items or perhaps use old buckles and replace the leather?
(Would also like a well made phone pouch to fit on a belt)

ps how does one specify high quality hide like this?
I've heard do bridle leather.....is that it?

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The chances are good that the Timberland belt was made of English Bridle Leather. This is a tanning process that impregnates the leather with oils so that the leather remains supple even under hard use. Using a slightly different tanning process, impregnating with grease instead of oil, and you have 'latigo' leather... a bit stronger than bridle leather and stands up better to really harsh use.

The Paragon belt was probably made from vegetable tanned cowhide (or in this country, water buffalo hide that hasn't been very well tanned...) Snow-Seal won't bring it back to life. That stuff is great for waterproofing. It's a mix of bee's wax and silicone. Neither will penetrate the leather. To soften it, and bring it back to being usable it needs to have leather conditioners penetrate the fibers. "Lexol," "Neatsfoot Oil," or ordinary shoe cream (NOT wax shoe polish!!!) applied and rubbed into the leather will work, but the real easy way is to spray that sucker with "ArmorAll!" You'd be amazed at how well that stuff can bring old, dry leather back to life! Spray it on well to both sides of the leather, let it soak in for a few minutes, then wipe off the excess. Then 'work' the belt over a chair leg, back and forth for a few minutes. Spray again, let it soak in, wipe off all the excess, let it sit for a couple of days, and your belt will (maybe) be as good as new.

High quality cowhide is hard to just 'find.' There are several companies that sell it, and will ship to Thailand, but they sell larger cuts, with a bend or belly being the smallest. It's sold by the square foot, and ordered by cut and weight (thickness.)

For the very highest quality leather, you can't beat www.hermannoakleather.com It's simply the very best.

For the easiest, for leather and supplies, it's www.tandyleatherfactory.com

And here are a couple of other good leather suppliers that have shipped in the past.

www.leathersupply.com

www.waterhouseleather.com

www.claytonleather.com

But... if you just want a belt to replace what you had, you can buy a length of leather from the shop on Sri Donchai. Ask for vegetable tanned cowhide, and be prepared to really work some sort of leather conditioner into it. Otherwise it will absorb sweat, dry out, crack, etc....

It's skin. It needs to be treated like skin. Moisturizers-R-Us...

He will also make a nice phone case for you to your design, do very good work, and charge a very fair price. You'll probably want the case to be made of Chrome-tanned leather. It's much softer. As him to show you some different leathers. He's a hell of a nice guy, and easy to do business with.

Edited April 13, 2014 by FolkGuitar

[TheFox]

Thanks for the indications. I'll poke my head in next week.

[BngkkB]

Where do you get the leather in Bangkok? Thank you.

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