Plaa Gapong ปลากะพง

[Kanga Japan]

This fish is listed on many sites as both PLAA GAPONG and PLAA GRAPONG. Can someone tell me which is correct. I guess that Gapong is, but is Grapong also correct and there are 2 was of writing this? Thanks for your help.

[kriswillems]

ปลากะพง is correct. (ปลากระพง is not correct).

[AyG]

I think the confusion comes from the fact that gra- is a much more common prefix than ga-.

There also is a plaa grapong - ปลากระป๋อง

[Mole]

This is another example of "ka" which is hypercorrected to "kra".

Similar to กะเพรา ka-phrao -> kra-prhao and กะเทย ka-thoei -> kra-thoei

Many Thai words which starts with ka often gets hyper-corrected to kra.

Some words such as กะเพรา it's been going on for so long that the hypercorreced (incorrect) word กระเพรา has been accepted as an alternative spelling.

[Kanga Japan]

Thank you:

Kriswillems (note that only one is correct)

AyG (I will check up on the other reading)

Mole (I particularly liked your detailed explanation)

Best regards,

[DavidHouston]

[Redundant posting removed.]

Edited April 11, 2014 by DavidHouston

[Mole]

I believe the reason behind this type of hypercorrection by adding an "r" in the pronunciation is because it is seemed as more prestigious to be able to pronounce the rolling of the tongue in Thai speech.

So people are trying too hard to sound "educated" by pronouncing the ร correctly, thus introducing it to words where there are actually no ร.

For example กะเทย ka-thoey is the word that I very often hear pronounced as kra-thoey. This happens very often in movies and TV.

[Kanga Japan]

Dear Mole,

Thanks very much for your detailed explanation. I fully understand now the reason behind this. This will come in handy when I come up against similar words. I noticed sometime that basil is listed as 'gapao' and sometimes 'grapao'. I assume that this follows the same reasoning.

You have really helped me.

[Mole]

Yes, in the case of kra-phrao, this pronunciation is so rampant that it has been accepted as an alternative spelling.

I tends to automatically notice these things and it hits me right in the ears every time I hear this.

Edited April 11, 2014 by Mole

[Kanga Japan]

Dear Mole,

Thank you again. I live in Japan and am trying to put together a dictionary relating to Thai food (in English/Thai/Japanese). I am still in the process of trying to learn Thai, so I have to rely on the internet quite a bit and it is very confusing sometimes, trying to work out whether words (romanized Thai) are actually referring to the same thing, even though they are slightly different in their method of spelling.

In addition, when I finally finish it, I will have to decide what method of spelling I should use to spell out Thai words (Thai font will be included), so this is quite a problem. The dictionary will be for both those who speak Thai and those who don't, so the spelling will have to be close to the actual pronunciation. On top of that, many Thai cooking books use incorrect ways of representing the Thai words, but they are so widespread that I may have to also include these incorrectly spelt words, for those using these cooking books, if you know what I mean.

I only became a member of this forum a few days ago, but thanks to people such as yourself, it has already helped me so much.

[Johpa]

I believe the reason behind this type of hypercorrection by adding an "r" in the pronunciation is because it is seemed as more prestigious to be able to pronounce the rolling of the tongue in Thai speech.

So people are trying too hard to sound "educated" by pronouncing the ร correctly, thus introducing it to words where there are actually no ร.

For example กะเทย ka-thoey is the word that I very often hear pronounced as kra-thoey. This happens very often in movies and TV.

I have never heard a ร inserted into the word kathoey. I have heard the ร (rua) reduced to anywhere from barely audible to being absent, but I don't recall hearing it being inserted whgere it does not belong. But then again I spend my time in rural areas where such pretenses would go under appreciated at best.

[Mole]

As I said, I hear it on TV and films all the time.

Colloquially nobody really pronounce the ร with rolling of tongue or tend to skip if altogether. But on TV and films, people are trying to get a more clear pronunciation, and this is where you'll usually hear this type of hypercorrection.