US troops land in Poland for exercises: Ukraine crisis

[craigt3365]

With Russia massing an estimated 40,000 to 50,000 troops under the guise of military exercises along its border with Ukraine, anxiety is running high among some of the newer members of NATO, themselves former states within the Soviet Union, regarding Russia's possible designs on territorial expansion.

Under the collective defense clause of the NATO charter, an attack on one member constitutes an attack on the entire alliance, thus obligating American involvement in any response to such an attack.

The exercises are a manifestation of that obligation.

"It sends a signal to (Russian President Vladimir) Putin his ambitions can't go as far as the NATO territory because we have this commitment to them," Nicholas Burns, a former U.S. ambassador to NATO, said in an interview with CNN on Wednesday.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/23/world/europe/us-ukraine-nato/?c=&page=2

Yes Russia has so many troops on the border under the guise of military exercise, so to de-escalate the situation US has decided to bring 450 soldiers to Russian border?

Has any of the EU countries felt threatened or asked for US help or protection?

So far, Germany, France, Bulgaria and a few others, have been in close contact with Russia to normalize the situation and rectify any misunderstandings.

Was Poland ever invaded by Russia or was under threat to be invaded?

Any reason why US does not run the drills in say Holland or other neighboring countries not so close to Russia?

I mean, common really, we are all grown ups and have access to all sorts of information to be able to sort through masquerade

Relying solely on Western media would be silly, because all you are getting is one way propaganda. You may not believe Russian press is free, but it is worth watching even if you do not understand, just to see and hear the other side and then make the judgement.

Here is one time Russia invaded Poland:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Poland

[Pralaad]

RT times is an extremely biased media source. Obviously.

And here we go again, no more biased than cnn or any other Western Media.

Just another side of the story which Western media does not report, because otherwise it would make US and some EU countries look pretty damn foolish

At least we can agree that RT is biased. Great stuff!

Sorry but i will not be wasting any more of my time as the facts simply get deleted for one reason or another.

[craigt3365]

With Russia massing an estimated 40,000 to 50,000 troops under the guise of military exercises along its border with Ukraine, anxiety is running high among some of the newer members of NATO, themselves former states within the Soviet Union, regarding Russia's possible designs on territorial expansion.

Under the collective defense clause of the NATO charter, an attack on one member constitutes an attack on the entire alliance, thus obligating American involvement in any response to such an attack.

The exercises are a manifestation of that obligation.

"It sends a signal to (Russian President Vladimir) Putin his ambitions can't go as far as the NATO territory because we have this commitment to them," Nicholas Burns, a former U.S. ambassador to NATO, said in an interview with CNN on Wednesday.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/23/world/europe/us-ukraine-nato/?c=&page=2

Yes Russia has so many troops on the border under the guise of military exercise, so to de-escalate the situation US has decided to bring 450 soldiers to Russian border?

Has any of the EU countries felt threatened or asked for US help or protection?

So far, Germany, France, Bulgaria and a few others, have been in close contact with Russia to normalize the situation and rectify any misunderstandings.

Was Poland ever invaded by Russia or was under threat to be invaded?

Any reason why US does not run the drills in say Holland or other neighboring countries not so close to Russia?

I mean, common really, we are all grown ups and have access to all sorts of information to be able to sort through masquerade

Relying solely on Western media would be silly, because all you are getting is one way propaganda. You may not believe Russian press is free, but it is worth watching even if you do not understand, just to see and hear the other side and then make the judgement.

Here is one time Russia invaded Poland:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Poland

How about when Poland invaded Russia and actually occupied it? Not interested in that part of history are you? Got anymore links to pieces written by fictional characters? LOL

Be polite and post correct information and your posts won't be removed. No references to non-English language items are allowed, per forum rules.

Do some research on that fictional character and you'll figure out it's purpose.

[3NUMBAS]

The US and all of NATO has a solemn commitment to protect Poland and several other nearby countries. Russia is signaling a desire to expand its territories again.

Rubbish. Like Poland is under threat from Russia.

most of the young citizens want to leave the country to go to the UK and elsewhere in europe so what are they going to protect ? the gherkins and sausages ?

[folium]

Be polite and post correct information and your posts won't be removed. No references to non-English language items are allowed, per forum rules.

Do some research on that fictional character and you'll figure out it's purpose.

Here is the thing, to be non biased one has to see both sides of the story, the other side happens to be non English speaking.

Posting ONLY English language information becomes 101% biased.

Furthermore, posted facts were video clips, one does not need to speak Russian to understand mob trying to kill someone. and in some if one unable to understand, there are always subtitles in English

But it is what it is and US is always right in its foreign policies

Don't worry there are plenty of siloviki/oligarch controlled media outlets in Russia that have English versions. Try RT, RIA-Novosti, or even VK now that it has been acquired by two of Putin's chosen oligarchs.

Loved your earlier claim that Russia had never invaded Poland. Perhaps the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact to carve up Poland between Stalin and his Nazi allies escapes your notice, especially as the Russiand then insisted on murdering some 30,000 Poles in the Katyn Forest ( which they then tried to blame on their Nazi allies). And of course Poland could never be regarded as a Russian colony having been invaded in 1945 ( though of course that invasion went on a go slow long enough to allow the Nazis to murder the inhabitants of the Warsaw Ghetto) and remained a colony until 1989 and the collapse of the Soviet Empire. There are several other historical examples of Russia invading, occupying and carving up Poland but I would hate to tax your intellect further.

[Scarpolo]

The US and all of NATO has a solemn commitment to protect Poland and several other nearby countries. Russia is signaling a desire to expand its territories again.

Putting some US troops on the ground is merely a good chess move. Russia might mess with Poland, but if it messes with even a couple of hundred US troops it's a game changer.

Other than having nukes, Russia is a paper tiger. Russia spends just 10% of what the US spends on military, and is far behind in technology. LINK

44e4c.png

\do you suggest Russia was the aggressor here, and not the EU?

[rhythmworx]

The US and all of NATO has a solemn commitment to protect Poland and several other nearby countries. Russia is signaling a desire to expand its territories again.

Rubbish. Like Poland is under threat from Russia.

They're all here in England anyway it doesn't matter.

[folium]

The US and all of NATO has a solemn commitment to protect Poland and several other nearby countries. Russia is signaling a desire to expand its territories again.

Putting some US troops on the ground is merely a good chess move. Russia might mess with Poland, but if it messes with even a couple of hundred US troops it's a game changer.

Other than having nukes, Russia is a paper tiger. Russia spends just 10% of what the US spends on military, and is far behind in technology. LINK

44e4c.png

\do you suggest Russia was the aggressor here, and not the EU?

Just remind us who has invaded and subsequently annexed part of a neighbouring sovereign country, and who signed up to defend the sovereignty of the same country in 1994?

[pbay]

The US and all of NATO has a solemn commitment to protect Poland and several other nearby countries. Russia is signaling a desire to expand its territories again.

Putting some US troops on the ground is merely a good chess move. Russia might mess with Poland, but if it messes with even a couple of hundred US troops it's a game changer.

Other than having nukes, Russia is a paper tiger. Russia spends just 10% of what the US spends on military, and is far behind in technology. LINK

44e4c.png

\do you suggest Russia was the aggressor here, and not the EU?

Just remind us who has invaded and subsequently annexed part of a neighbouring sovereign country, and who signed up to defend the sovereignty of the same country in 1994?

In another version of events, no country was invaded because Russian troops were already stationed there at their base and the people of Crimea who are mostly Russian speaking voted in a referendum to become a part of Russia. Of course Crimea was a part of Russia for hundreds of years anyway before Ukraine even existed.

[Scott]

Posts deleted and one poster has been given a suspension. If you have questions about moderation, please contact the moderator directly.

Commenting on the sources of information is generally off-topic and results in senseless arguments. The sources need to be in English, because that is a forum rule. If you wish to respond to information about a source the post needs to be in the context of the topic and remark, not simply a dismissal of the source.

Further off-topic, personal remarks directed at posters will earn warnings.

Please stay on topic. You are free to disagree with one another, but keep it civil.

[3NUMBAS]

looks like a military confrontation between the US and Russia is brewing as the yanks are talking about going into Ukraine as well.

increased Russian bombers flying around the euro skies this week ..

[Scarpolo]

looks like a military confrontation between the US and Russia is brewing as the yanks are talking about going into Ukraine as well.

increased Russian bombers flying around the euro skies this week ..

They want to keep the Russians busy so they can go into Iran without opposition and without the Russian being able to rearm them

[Pralaad]

looks like a military confrontation between the US and Russia is brewing as the yanks are talking about going into Ukraine as well.

increased Russian bombers flying around the euro skies this week ..

They want to keep the Russians busy so they can go into Iran without opposition and without the Russian being able to rearm them

Whoever is calling the shots in US, its almost certain its not Obama.

For the sake of US military i can only hope US does not find itself isolated in regards to Russia once again as it did with Syria

[lovetotravel]

looks like a military confrontation between the US and Russia is brewing as the yanks are talking about going into Ukraine as well.

increased Russian bombers flying around the euro skies this week ..

They want to keep the Russians busy so they can go into Iran without opposition and without the Russian being able to rearm them

Whoever is calling the shots in US, its almost certain its not Obama.

For the sake of US military i can only hope US does not find itself isolated in regards to Russia once again as it did with Syria

Yes, heaven forbid the US try to answer the Ukraine's plea for help:

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304788404579521724215166660

WASHINGTON—Ukraine's interim government on Thursday called for the U.S. and European Union to impose broad sectorial sanctions on Russia "as quickly as possible" in response to what Kiev says are the Kremlin's escalating efforts to destabilize eastern Ukraine.

Ukraine's deputy foreign minister, Danylo Lubkivsky, also said his government needs increased military support from the West, including arms, to defend itself against Moscow's aggression.

And of course there are many countries deploring Russia's invasion of Ukraine:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_reactions_to_the_2014_Crimean_crisis

[lovetotravel]

The US and all of NATO has a solemn commitment to protect Poland and several other nearby countries. Russia is signaling a desire to expand its territories again.

Putting some US troops on the ground is merely a good chess move. Russia might mess with Poland, but if it messes with even a couple of hundred US troops it's a game changer.

Other than having nukes, Russia is a paper tiger. Russia spends just 10% of what the US spends on military, and is far behind in technology. LINK

44e4c.png

\do you suggest Russia was the aggressor here, and not the EU?

Just remind us who has invaded and subsequently annexed part of a neighbouring sovereign country, and who signed up to defend the sovereignty of the same country in 1994?

In another version of events, no country was invaded because Russian troops were already stationed there at their base and the people of Crimea who are mostly Russian speaking voted in a referendum to become a part of Russia. Of course Crimea was a part of Russia for hundreds of years anyway before Ukraine even existed.

Russia had a lease for a military base in the Crimea. Much like many other countries have around the world. Doesn't mean you have the right to invade a sovereign nation due to this.

[Asiantravel]

looks like a military confrontation between the US and Russia is brewing as the yanks are talking about going into Ukraine as well.

increased Russian bombers flying around the euro skies this week ..

It was quite surreal to watch the BBC world news bulletin a couple of days ago where the first story was about USA warning Russia.

Then the second story immediately after reported on Obama’s first stop off point on his Asian trip where he warned China that USA would have to engage in military action if there was any military conflict between Japan and China regarding the Senkaku/Diaoyu Islands.

So you would have the potential of USA being involved militarily with two superpowers simultaneously. It's almost like they're trying to deliberately start world War 3.

And the point is, can they afford it financially?

[Pralaad]

Yes, heaven forbid the US try to answer the Ukraine's plea for help:

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304788404579521724215166660

WASHINGTONUkraine's interim government on Thursday called for the U.S. and European Union to impose broad sectorial sanctions on Russia "as quickly as possible" in response to what Kiev says are the Kremlin's escalating efforts to destabilize eastern Ukraine.

Ukraine's deputy foreign minister, Danylo Lubkivsky, also said his government needs increased military support from the West

And of course there are many countries deploring Russia's invasion of Ukraine:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_reactions_to_the_2014_Crimean_crisis

I thought US already did.

US offered $1 billion guarantee to any bank that lends money to Ukraine:w00t:

Still waiting for the banks to come forward i guess.

EU also promised, the cheque is in the mail:thumbsup:

Now, lets look at interim government, was there an election that the world has missed or was the government overthrown by the neo nazi's?

and now neo nazis need weapons to defend itself? Sort of like Taliban needing weapons to defend itself against bad Russians, that worked out well for US, has it not

[Pralaad]

looks like a military confrontation between the US and Russia is brewing as the yanks are talking about going into Ukraine as well.

increased Russian bombers flying around the euro skies this week ..

It was quite surreal to watch the BBC world news bulletin a couple of days ago where the first story was about USA warning Russia.

Then the second story immediately after reported on Obama’s first stop off point on his Asian trip where he warned China that USA would have to engage in military action if there was any military conflict between Japan and China regarding the Senkaku/Diaoyu Islands.

So you would have the potential of USA being involved militarily with two superpowers simultaneously. It's almost like they're trying to deliberately start world War 3.

And the point is, can they afford it financially?

Considering the miserable failures and the costs of last 2 wars with really inferior nations, i doubt US could last an hour with one of the super powers, let alone both.

China will not even need to use weapons, just dump US$ and recall all loans-welcome stone age

[Pralaad]

Russia had a lease for a military base in the Crimea. Much like many other countries have around the world. Doesn't mean you have the right to invade a sovereign nation due to this.

Only Russia did not. There was no use of military

Crimea autonomy-Republic of Crimea,

Hence you like wiki as a reference point,

Autonomous Republic of Crimea

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Crimea

[ABCer]

Russia has no intentions of invading Poland.

Russia has no intentions of invading Ukraine.

Russia had no particular interest in Crimea.

Russia does not give a damn about Russian speaking people in any former USSR parts (countries).

BUT

Russia does not want NATO troops, or radars, or any kind of rockets on its borders.

Russia will never give up its Sevastopol base on Black Sea.

People who are great sticklers for Legitimacy, written documents, agreements, human rights, etc. should look back into history.

- When, why and how did Crimea become Ukrainian?

- When and how did USA react to Soviet rockets on Cuban soil?

- When, why and how did NATO break its promises not to advance East, towards Russian borders?

- When, why and how did Poland play its games against USSR and Czechs before WWII?

- If Russia is an aggressor what does it make USA?

I am not for Russia. I am not for Putin. I am not for USA. I am not for Obama.

I just have my own opinion and hate West and East propaganda.

Because sooner or later we all will be paying for this madness.

[F430murci]

looks like a military confrontation between the US and Russia is brewing as the yanks are talking about going into Ukraine as well.

increased Russian bombers flying around the euro skies this week ..

It was quite surreal to watch the BBC world news bulletin a couple of days ago where the first story was about USA warning Russia.

Then the second story immediately after reported on Obamas first stop off point on his Asian trip where he warned China that USA would have to engage in military action if there was any military conflict between Japan and China regarding the Senkaku/Diaoyu Islands.

So you would have the potential of USA being involved militarily with two superpowers simultaneously. It's almost like they're trying to deliberately start world War 3.

And the point is, can they afford it financially?

Considering the miserable failures and the costs of last 2 wars with really inferior nations, i doubt US could last an hour with one of the super powers, let alone both.

China will not even need to use weapons, just dump US$ and recall all loans-welcome stone age

We have China's money, they will then hold worthless paper, the Yuan will appreciate, China exports will no longer be affordable hence desirable and anyone holding Yuans will have an appreciating currency. Appreciating Yuan is good for anyone holding Yuan and devastating to China who has to keep Yuan artificially devalued from a going forward perspective.

The downside to US is a potential downgrade, but other nations have have so demand may keep increase in interest due to downgrade in check. Net impact to US, negligible. Net impact to China, loss of trade, loss of GDP and loss of control of the value of its currency = devastating.

[F430murci]

Russia has no intentions of invading Poland.

Russia has no intentions of invading Ukraine.

Russia had no particular interest in Crimea.

Russia does not give a damn about Russian speaking people in any former USSR parts (countries).

BUT

Russia does not want NATO troops, or radars, or any kind of rockets on its borders.

Russia will never give up its Sevastopol base on Black Sea.

People who are great sticklers for Legitimacy, written documents, agreements, human rights, etc. should look back into history.

- When, why and how did Crimea become Ukrainian?

- When and how did USA react to Soviet rockets on Cuban soil?

- When, why and how did NATO break its promises not to advance East, towards Russian borders?

- When, why and how did Poland play its games against USSR and Czechs before WWII?

- If Russia is an aggressor what does it make USA?

I am not for Russia. I am not for Putin. I am not for USA. I am not for Obama.

I just have my own opinion and hate West and East propaganda.

Because sooner or later we all will be paying for this madness.

Yes, but I doubt your correct on what Putin wants.

We are clearly in a chest thumping chess match that has a dangerous check mate potential. Obama is so weak and has been shown up so many times, I am afraid he is overreacting to try and save face.

[Scarpolo]

Other than Iran the US has only Russia in its sights.

Anyone who thinks that Russia can win in Ukraine, isnt looking at the chess board correctly

[Scott]

An off-topic post has been deleted.

[ABCer]

Russia has no intentions of invading Poland.

Russia has no intentions of invading Ukraine.

Russia had no particular interest in Crimea.

Russia does not give a damn about Russian speaking people in any former USSR parts (countries).

BUT

Russia does not want NATO troops, or radars, or any kind of rockets on its borders.

Russia will never give up its Sevastopol base on Black Sea.

People who are great sticklers for Legitimacy, written documents, agreements, human rights, etc. should look back into history.

- When, why and how did Crimea become Ukrainian?

- When and how did USA react to Soviet rockets on Cuban soil?

- When, why and how did NATO break its promises not to advance East, towards Russian borders?

- When, why and how did Poland play its games against USSR and Czechs before WWII?

- If Russia is an aggressor what does it make USA?

I am not for Russia. I am not for Putin. I am not for USA. I am not for Obama.

I just have my own opinion and hate West and East propaganda.

Because sooner or later we all will be paying for this madness.

Yes, but I doubt your correct on what Putin wants.

We are clearly in a chest thumping chess match that has a dangerous check mate potential. Obama is so weak and has been shown up so many times, I am afraid he is overreacting to try and save face.

I never even indicated I know what Putin wants. I do not know.

I do not believe what Putin wants is important. He is not Russia. He belongs to his owners. Obama belongs to his owners.

And Obama's face is not my concern. Just as Putin's.

All I said and repeat it - "we all will be paying for this madness".

Obama's face might cost Poland its arse. And once again Russia will be the Demon, whilst USA will be the Saint.

Both perceptions are wrong.

The simple fact is: USA is actively playing its dirty games closer and closer to Russian borders - in the recent past clearly Russian spheres of interests (Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Baltic States, Ukraine, Georgia, etc.)

Russia may prove them wrong.

One does not have to be pro-Russian to see this.

[Pralaad]

Other than Iran the US has only Russia in its sights.

Anyone who thinks that Russia can win in Ukraine, isnt looking at the chess board correctly

The only sight US has is European Market to sell liquid gas.

Its still early days and need a few more years but US decided to get a head start and start meddling in EU affairs early.

Anyone who thinks Russia will allow US to meddle in its affair, will get a big surprise very shortly

[I Like Thai]

History always repeats, the tactics have changed

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichskommissariat_Ukraine

Germany launched its invasion of the Soviet Union on June 22, 1941, seeking to destroy its ideological opponent. In the mind ofAdolf Hitler and other German expansionists, the destruction of the "Judeo-Bolshevist" state would remove a threat from Germany's eastern borders and allow Germany to use the vast spaces of the western Soviet Union, which included the fertile Ukraine, as a source for the fulfillment of the material needs of the German people. The region would also provide "living space" for future German colonists.

Statements about the Germans having a right to expand their territory especially in the East since they represented a Herrenvolk(master race) was widely spread among the German public and Nazi officials of various ranks. In particular when Reichskommissar Ukraine Erich Koch said:

The German invasion resulted in the collapse of the western elements of the Soviet Red Army, and Nazi plans for Ukraine became reality. On July 16, 1941, Hitler appointed the fervent Nazi Erich Koch as Reichskommissar for the planned Reichskommissariat Ukraine, created by aFührer decree on August 20, 1941

[Scarpolo]

Other than Iran the US has only Russia in its sights.

Anyone who thinks that Russia can win in Ukraine, isnt looking at the chess board correctly

The only sight US has is European Market to sell liquid gas.

Its still early days and need a few more years but US decided to get a head start and start meddling in EU affairs early.

Anyone who thinks Russia will allow US to meddle in its affair, will get a big surprise very shortly

The US has super weapons that the Russians will not want unveiled,

they will fight a 20th century war, against Sky Wars technology,

it will not be pretty

[Pralaad]

Other than Iran the US has only Russia in its sights.

Anyone who thinks that Russia can win in Ukraine, isnt looking at the chess board correctly

The only sight US has is European Market to sell liquid gas.

Its still early days and need a few more years but US decided to get a head start and start meddling in EU affairs early.

Anyone who thinks Russia will allow US to meddle in its affair, will get a big surprise very shortly

The US has super weapons that the Russians will not want unveiled,

they will fight a 20th century war, against Sky Wars technology,

it will not be pretty

OK

PS. My 5 year old neighbor has a droid

[Asiantravel]

Other than Iran the US has only Russia in its sights.

Anyone who thinks that Russia can win in Ukraine, isnt looking at the chess board correctly

The only sight US has is European Market to sell liquid gas.

Its still early days and need a few more years but US decided to get a head start and start meddling in EU affairs early.

Anyone who thinks Russia will allow US to meddle in its affair, will get a big surprise very shortly

The US has super weapons that the Russians will not want unveiled,

they will fight a 20th century war, against Sky Wars technology,

it will not be pretty

http://gizmodo.com/this-russian-doomsday-plane-is-president-putins-person-1555424146

Edited April 26, 2014 by Asiantravel