US troops land in Poland for exercises: Ukraine crisis

[lovetotravel]

Russia had a lease for a military base in the Crimea. Much like many other countries have around the world. Doesn't mean you have the right to invade a sovereign nation due to this.

Only Russia did not. There was no use of military

Crimea autonomy-Republic of Crimea,

Hence you like wiki as a reference point,

Autonomous Republic of Crimea

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Crimea

Interesting history of Crimea. Very educational. But Russia did use force. There are many reports showing their elite paramilitary in action. Russia isn't innocent in this crisis.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_2014_Crimean_crisis

Early on there were Russian troops involved. Also look at how the voting was handled. Definitely not out in the open and according to the countries laws.

[danmarnj]

looks like a military confrontation between the US and Russia is brewing as the yanks are talking about going into Ukraine as well.

increased Russian bombers flying around the euro skies this week ..

It was quite surreal to watch the BBC world news bulletin a couple of days ago where the first story was about USA warning Russia.

Then the second story immediately after reported on Obama’s first stop off point on his Asian trip where he warned China that USA would have to engage in military action if there was any military conflict between Japan and China regarding the Senkaku/Diaoyu Islands.

So you would have the potential of USA being involved militarily with two superpowers simultaneously. It's almost like they're trying to deliberately start world War 3.

And the point is, can they afford it financially?

The US is a protectorate of Japan and had been since after WWII. It has no choice but to assist japan if China attacks it. China can go after its close neighbors, but their is little chance of WWIII because China has no allies (except N Korea and possibly Cambodia). There are no countries to assist with supply lines, etc. and it will be some years before China has the military capacity to match the West.

Russia is a one-trick pony with fossil fuel as its only source of income. Its military is no match for US military and its economy is weak. Putin is shrewd because he knows the EU are whores and the US is weak under the current administration. Putin believes there would be nothing but strong words and weak sanctions if it destabilized Ukraine, besides the fact that Russia is one of the Afghanistan supply routes for the US

[geriatrickid]

It is assumed by some people that the USA is the one pushing for the tough response. The truth is that Poland is the country which has been the most strident, most likely because of the pain, misery, destruction and death that it suffered due to the Russian invasion in 1939. The undeclared war that came 16 days after the Germans invaded, saw Russia stab Poland in its back while it struggled with the Nazi invasion. Poland has a long memory and has tasted the duplicity and brutality of Russia. The comments from the Polish minister Sikorski are rather tough.

Poland tried to convince the EU of the dangers of Russian expansionism months before Russia seized Crimea and the EU ignored Poland. It turned to its strategic ally Canada and asked for help, while at the same time it made representations to the USA. Poland has seen this before, It watched as the west allowed Germany to annex Czechkoslovakia and ignored the Nazis. It knows its history.

At the same time the first US ground forces were announced, Canada announced that it was deploying 6 CF-18s and their support crews to Poland. The Canadian foreign minister was in Poland this week to support his counterpart in Poland. He has echoed the same strong words that only Poland has had the courage to voice. Minister Baird made a point of laying roses in Poland's national colors of white and red at the Executions Wall of Auschwitz , where inmates, chiefly Polish resistance fighters, were executed. He also visited a memorial for Poles who were killed during the barbaric and cowardly invasion of Poland by the Russians. That was a very, very strong diplomatic message to Russia.

Russia is testing the waters in the Ukraine and Poland knows it. This time around, Poland will not rely on the empty promises of Europe for its defense.

[Asiantravel]

looks like a military confrontation between the US and Russia is brewing as the yanks are talking about going into Ukraine as well.

increased Russian bombers flying around the euro skies this week ..

It was quite surreal to watch the BBC world news bulletin a couple of days ago where the first story was about USA warning Russia.

Then the second story immediately after reported on Obama’s first stop off point on his Asian trip where he warned China that USA would have to engage in military action if there was any military conflict between Japan and China regarding the Senkaku/Diaoyu Islands.

So you would have the potential of USA being involved militarily with two superpowers simultaneously. It's almost like they're trying to deliberately start world War 3.

And the point is, can they afford it financially?

The US is a protectorate of Japan and had been since after WWII. It has no choice but to assist japan if China attacks it. China can go after its close neighbors, but their is little chance of WWIII because China has no allies (except N Korea and possibly Cambodia). There are no countries to assist with supply lines, etc. and it will be some years before China has the military capacity to match the West.

Russia is a one-trick pony with fossil fuel as its only source of income. Its military is no match for US military and its economy is weak. Putin is shrewd because he knows the EU are whores and the US is weak under the current administration. Putin believes there would be nothing but strong words and weak sanctions if it destabilized Ukraine, besides the fact that Russia is one of the Afghanistan supply routes for the US

As I read your post I am simultaneously watching a feature on the television entitled “ Stoned America “ suggests not many American people have an appetite for more fighting . 45 million people on food stamps and $17 trillion in debt suggests they don't have room for much more aggression.

Edited April 26, 2014 by Asiantravel

[Credo]

Americans generally haven't had much of an appetite for fighting. The gov't has to convince them to support a war and that takes a fair amount of time and effort and usually an act of provocation, something like Pearl Harbor, the Gulf of Tonkin or 9/11. Otherwise Americans would just as soon stay home.

What little foreign support capital that the US had was spent on the Iraq war and to a lesser extent in the Afghanistan war. The US takes its military agreements and alliances quite seriously and Poland will be protected. Obama is not a war president and he will go great extents to avoid it, but he is not a coward and if pushed hard enough, he will fight. He's not going to fight alone though, so the EU and the rest of the cheerleading squad had better step up and get in the game.

Obama isn't another Bush. If he ends up in a conflict it will because there is little choice in the matter.

[Scott]

Off-topic post deleted.

[lovetotravel]

Other than Iran the US has only Russia in its sights.

Anyone who thinks that Russia can win in Ukraine, isnt looking at the chess board correctly

The only sight US has is European Market to sell liquid gas.

Its still early days and need a few more years but US decided to get a head start and start meddling in EU affairs early.

Anyone who thinks Russia will allow US to meddle in its affair, will get a big surprise very shortly

The US has super weapons that the Russians will not want unveiled,

they will fight a 20th century war, against Sky Wars technology,

it will not be pretty

OK

PS. My 5 year old neighbor has a droid

The Russia wouldn't stand a chance against the US. Especially in the air:

http://www.therichest.com/rich-list/the-top-10-largest-combat-air-forces-in-the-world/10/

[Pakboong]

My opinion will again not be that popular but I am convinced that Putin has had his sights set for some time at toppling the International Monetary Fund based upon the belief that he can do what Hitler did in 1933. He is a patient guy and probably is very annoyed by having these side shows to deal with. IMO, he cares very little about Ukraine, he wants to get back to the big show where he can bring the big money to its knees. He does however have to deal with domestic issues and at least show that he is willing to protect Russian citizens.

Notice that the IMF holds the third largest gold reserves in the World. The Brics countries are buying up gold in record amounts. At some point there will be a return to a world standard based upon hard assets like gold. While BRICS grows in size, they will go after fiat currencies. These BRICS nations will nationalize their banks which is already being done and the IMF may collapse of its own weight and its debt simply because half of the world's money is no longer available to them. Putin believes he can take the IMF vigorish normally collected from the BRICS nations and use it to grow his country and his allies by returning those huge fees that fatten the oligarch coffers to defense and inhanced infastructure. It was done in 1933 and I am of the opinion that he will try it again but much more patiently.

IMO the European Union has had Russia figured out for quite some time and is creating significant side shows geared at stopping Putin in his tracks and could lead to a world war. The IMF doesn't fear war, that is their harvest. Putin wanted to weaken his enemies for another decade or more. The EU knows what he is up to and plan to stop him now.

[Scott]

Your right. Your post isn't very popular, at least with me. It's interesting, but it's very off-topic. I'll leave it for food-for-thought, but let's stay a little closer to the topic. You could be right, but right now it's about troops in Poland.

[folium]

My opinion will again not be that popular but I am convinced that Putin has had his sights set for some time at toppling the International Monetary Fund based upon the belief that he can do what Hitler did in 1933. He is a patient guy and probably is very annoyed by having these side shows to deal with. IMO, he cares very little about Ukraine, he wants to get back to the big show where he can bring the big money to its knees. He does however have to deal with domestic issues and at least show that he is willing to protect Russian citizens.

Notice that the IMF holds the third largest gold reserves in the World. The Brics countries are buying up gold in record amounts. At some point there will be a return to a world standard based upon hard assets like gold. While BRICS grows in size, they will go after fiat currencies. These BRICS nations will nationalize their banks which is already being done and the IMF may collapse of its own weight and its debt simply because half of the world's money is no longer available to them. Putin believes he can take the IMF vigorish normally collected from the BRICS nations and use it to grow his country and his allies by returning those huge fees that fatten the oligarch coffers to defense and inhanced infastructure. It was done in 1933 and I am of the opinion that he will try it again but much more patiently.

IMO the European Union has had Russia figured out for quite some time and is creating significant side shows geared at stopping Putin in his tracks and could lead to a world war. The IMF doesn't fear war, that is their harvest. Putin wanted to weaken his enemies for another decade or more. The EU knows what he is up to and plan to stop him now.

Fascinating stuff...

Any chance of some supporting evidence to back up your claims?

[Scott]

Please don't. It's a topic for another thread. Not here.

[Pakboong]

My opinion will again not be that popular but I am convinced that Putin has had his sights set for some time at toppling the International Monetary Fund based upon the belief that he can do what Hitler did in 1933. He is a patient guy and probably is very annoyed by having these side shows to deal with. IMO, he cares very little about Ukraine, he wants to get back to the big show where he can bring the big money to its knees. He does however have to deal with domestic issues and at least show that he is willing to protect Russian citizens.

Notice that the IMF holds the third largest gold reserves in the World. The Brics countries are buying up gold in record amounts. At some point there will be a return to a world standard based upon hard assets like gold. While BRICS grows in size, they will go after fiat currencies. These BRICS nations will nationalize their banks which is already being done and the IMF may collapse of its own weight and its debt simply because half of the world's money is no longer available to them. Putin believes he can take the IMF vigorish normally collected from the BRICS nations and use it to grow his country and his allies by returning those huge fees that fatten the oligarch coffers to defense and inhanced infastructure. It was done in 1933 and I am of the opinion that he will try it again but much more patiently.

IMO the European Union has had Russia figured out for quite some time and is creating significant side shows geared at stopping Putin in his tracks and could lead to a world war. The IMF doesn't fear war, that is their harvest. Putin wanted to weaken his enemies for another decade or more. The EU knows what he is up to and plan to stop him now.

Fascinating stuff...

Any chance of some supporting evidence to back up your claims?

Merely one persons opinion.

[Pakboong]

My opinion will again not be that popular but I am convinced that Putin has had his sights set for some time at toppling the International Monetary Fund based upon the belief that he can do what Hitler did in 1933. He is a patient guy and probably is very annoyed by having these side shows to deal with. IMO, he cares very little about Ukraine, he wants to get back to the big show where he can bring the big money to its knees. He does however have to deal with domestic issues and at least show that he is willing to protect Russian citizens.

Notice that the IMF holds the third largest gold reserves in the World. The Brics countries are buying up gold in record amounts. At some point there will be a return to a world standard based upon hard assets like gold. While BRICS grows in size, they will go after fiat currencies. These BRICS nations will nationalize their banks which is already being done and the IMF may collapse of its own weight and its debt simply because half of the world's money is no longer available to them. Putin believes he can take the IMF vigorish normally collected from the BRICS nations and use it to grow his country and his allies by returning those huge fees that fatten the oligarch coffers to defense and inhanced infastructure. It was done in 1933 and I am of the opinion that he will try it again but much more patiently.

IMO the European Union has had Russia figured out for quite some time and is creating significant side shows geared at stopping Putin in his tracks and could lead to a world war. The IMF doesn't fear war, that is their harvest. Putin wanted to weaken his enemies for another decade or more. The EU knows what he is up to and plan to stop him now.

Fascinating stuff...

Any chance of some supporting evidence to back up your claims?

Merely one persons opinion.

[Pakboong]

Your right. Your post isn't very popular, at least with me. It's interesting, but it's very off-topic. I'll leave it for food-for-thought, but let's stay a little closer to the topic. You could be right, but right now it's about troops in Poland.

Sorry, I was actually commenting on another topic.

[Asiantravel]

According to former US Ambassador to Poland Christopher R. Hill in his own article, the western elite is digging in for a new Cold War and the world may be entering the most dangerous period of history since the Cuban missile crisis.

http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/christopher-r--hill-calls-on-the-west-to-prepare-for-a-long-struggle-with-a-revanchist-russia

[slipperylobster]

l the yanks are talking about going into Ukraine as well.

What is the source of this information? I immediately turned on the news and checked several articles on the web, but came up with only possible sanctions. You are suggesting the unthinkable... Perhaps a direct military action???

This is not simply a problem where the US would act alone, against all NATO agreements. It would definitely include our dear, close Allies.

[Asiantravel]

l the yanks are talking about going into Ukraine as well.

What is the source of this information? I immediately turned on the news and checked several articles on the web, but came up with only possible sanctions. You are suggesting the unthinkable... Perhaps a direct military action???

This is not simply a problem where the US would act alone, against all NATO agreements. It would definitely include our dear, close Allies.

U.S Army Europe to hold exercise in July in Ukraine

Amid fears of a wider conflict between Russia and Ukraine, the Army still plans to conduct an exercise in Ukraine this July, a spokesman for U.S. European Command told Army Times.

http://www.armytimes.com/article/20140316/NEWS/303160016/U-S-Army-Europe-hold-exercise-July-Ukraine

Edited April 26, 2014 by Asiantravel

[slipperylobster]

l the yanks are talking about going into Ukraine as well.

What is the source of this information? I immediately turned on the news and checked several articles on the web, but came up with only possible sanctions. You are suggesting the unthinkable... Perhaps a direct military action???

This is not simply a problem where the US would act alone, against all NATO agreements. It would definitely include our dear, close Allies.

U.S Army Europe to hold exercise in July in Ukraine

Amid fears of a wider conflict between Russia and Ukraine, the Army still plans to conduct an exercise in Ukraine this July, a spokesman for U.S. European Command told Army Times.

http://www.armytimes.com/article/20140316/NEWS/303160016/U-S-Army-Europe-hold-exercise-July-Ukraine

ok...a joint NATO exercise. This was planned before Russia sent troops in.... not planned as a reaction. Understood.

Involves many countries...not just the US

from your link.."Notably, the exercise will focus on training for peacekeeping, not repelling an enemy invader."

Edited April 26, 2014 by slipperylobster

[I Like Thai]

What is the source of this information? I immediately turned on the news and checked several articles on the web, but came up with only possible sanctions. You are suggesting the unthinkable... Perhaps a direct military action???

This is not simply a problem where the US would act alone, against all NATO agreements. It would definitely include our dear, close Allies.

U.S Army Europe to hold exercise in July in Ukraine

Amid fears of a wider conflict between Russia and Ukraine, the Army still plans to conduct an exercise in Ukraine this July, a spokesman for U.S. European Command told Army Times.

http://www.armytimes.com/article/20140316/NEWS/303160016/U-S-Army-Europe-hold-exercise-July-Ukraine

ok...a joint NATO exercise. This was planned before Russia sent troops in.... not planned as a reaction. Understood.

Involves many countries...not just the US

from your link.."Notably, the exercise will focus on training for peacekeeping, not repelling an enemy invader."

So, it has been the US and NATO intention all along to send it's troops into the Ukraine. That was it's intention long before current events ?

How surprising.

[slipperylobster]

What is the source of this information? I immediately turned on the news and checked several articles on the web, but came up with only possible sanctions. You are suggesting the unthinkable... Perhaps a direct military action???

This is not simply a problem where the US would act alone, against all NATO agreements. It would definitely include our dear, close Allies.

U.S Army Europe to hold exercise in July in Ukraine

Amid fears of a wider conflict between Russia and Ukraine, the Army still plans to conduct an exercise in Ukraine this July, a spokesman for U.S. European Command told Army Times.

http://www.armytimes.com/article/20140316/NEWS/303160016/U-S-Army-Europe-hold-exercise-July-Ukraine

ok...a joint NATO exercise. This was planned before Russia sent troops in.... not planned as a reaction. Understood.

Involves many countries...not just the US

from your link.."Notably, the exercise will focus on training for peacekeeping, not repelling an enemy invader."

So, it has been the US and NATO intention all along to send it's troops into the Ukraine. That was it's intention long before current events ?

How surprising.

umm...these exercise happen every year, in many areas, in support of NATO.

[slipperylobster]

Nobody has a crystal ball. Ukraine and many other neighboring countries have been requesting joint training long before the current situation. I do not believe that anybody forced their hand to write up the invitation.

[Pralaad]

Nobody has a crystal ball. Ukraine and many other neighboring countries have been requesting joint training long before the current situation. I do not believe that anybody forced their hand to write up the invitation.

Ukrainian army does not have mattresses for soldiers to sleep or food to feed them and they requested training exercise?

[watcharacters]

Russia has no intentions of invading Poland.

Russia has no intentions of invading Ukraine.

Russia had no particular interest in Crimea.

Russia does not give a damn about Russian speaking people in any former USSR parts (countries).

BUT

Russia does not want NATO troops, or radars, or any kind of rockets on its borders.

Russia will never give up its Sevastopol base on Black Sea.

People who are great sticklers for Legitimacy, written documents, agreements, human rights, etc. should look back into history.

- When, why and how did Crimea become Ukrainian?

- When and how did USA react to Soviet rockets on Cuban soil?

- When, why and how did NATO break its promises not to advance East, towards Russian borders?

- When, why and how did Poland play its games against USSR and Czechs before WWII?

- If Russia is an aggressor what does it make USA?

I am not for Russia. I am not for Putin. I am not for USA. I am not for Obama.

I just have my own opinion and hate West and East propaganda.

Because sooner or later we all will be paying for this madness.

.

Why don't you take a few moments to answer your rhetorical questions?

[watcharacters]

Please don't. It's a topic for another thread. Not here.

.

I agree. Sounds a bit like a gold bugs promo.

[Asiantravel]

ok...a joint NATO exercise. This was planned before Russia sent troops in.... not planned as a reaction. Understood.

Involves many countries...not just the US

from your link.."Notably, the exercise will focus on training for peacekeeping, not repelling an enemy invader."

So, it has been the US and NATO intention all along to send it's troops into the Ukraine. That was it's intention long before current events ?

How surprising.

umm...these exercise happen every year, in many areas, in support of NATO.

yeah , but not necessarily when the host country is totally broke financially and where the invitee is even providing a $1 billion loan guarantee to the host country

[ABCer]

Dear friends,

I Like Thai, Scarpolo, folium, Asiantravel et al.

I wish you all to be right. And God knows how I wish to be wrong.

However I cannot share your confidence in USA super weapons 'unveiled'. And I do not believe this to be a new 'cold war' revival.

And although I agree with the mention of Poland's bad memories and long sufferings, I also see that it has always got herself in troubles with its neighbours on both sides.

There is no argument about USA having better technologies and industries. Unfortunately these things do not win wars.

Somebody mentioned that history repeats itself. I agree with this. But can't see the point made. Which way will it go this time?

Somebody writes offhandedly Russia as a fossil fuel merchant - full stop. Please, do not even think this way let alone act on such a nonsense.

A very rude awakening is waiting at the end of such a road. And poor sods Poles are risking to 'taste it' again. Not that it is my wish they will...

Stupid irresponsible Governments and their commanding interests start wars. People are doing the fighting, dying and eventually paying for their mistakes.

And if any one of you think that American soldiers will beat Russian soldiers - it is lunacy...

And if anybody is willing to put our arguments to test - it isn't me...

Edited April 26, 2014 by ABCer

[lovetotravel]

yeah , but not necessarily when the host country is totally broke financially and where the invitee is even providing a $1 billion loan guarantee to the host country:giggle:

Hmmm....which country could you be talking about? I think that describes many countries today!

[ABCer]

Rhetorical questions do not need answering.

The questions I pointed out are for those who are interested in history.

The answers are on the Internet.

I do not answer challengers (refuse to be provoked) and do not believe in free education.

Go, dig yourself.

[Richard W]

Rubbish. Like Poland is under threat from Russia.

The two don't even share a border...

Actually, they do - the northern part of old East Prussia is now Russian, and that part of Russia borders Lithuania and Poland.

[geriatrickid]

Dear friends,

I Like Thai, Scarpolo, folium, Asiantravel et al.

I wish you all to be right. And God knows how I wish to be wrong.

However I cannot share your confidence in USA super weapons 'unveiled'. And I do not believe this to be a new 'cold war' revival.

And although I agree with the mention of Poland's bad memories and long sufferings, I also see that it has always got herself in troubles with its neighbours on both sides.

There is no argument about USA having better technologies and industries. Unfortunately these things do not win wars.

Somebody mentioned that history repeats itself. I agree with this. But can't see the point made. Which way will it go this time?

Somebody writes offhandedly Russia as a fossil fuel merchant - full stop. Please, do not even think this way let alone act on such a nonsense.

A very rude awakening is waiting at the end of such a road. And poor sods Poles are risking to 'taste it' again. Not that it is my wish they will...

Stupid irresponsible Governments and their commanding interests start wars. People are doing the fighting, dying and eventually paying for their mistakes.

And if any one of you think that American soldiers will beat Russian soldiers - it is lunacy...

And if anybody is willing to put our arguments to test - it isn't me...

Would you prefer that the Poles allow their country to be invaded and sacked again? The Russians did it in 1939 and then left the Poles to their cruel fate at the hands of the Germans, only to return and impose the cruel yoke of totalitarian rule on a once proud and free nation. The Poles are the only European nation to have suffered such savagery and the insult of having death camps put on their soil and then to have seen its own people massacred by the Russians as the west stood by, whistling in the wind. This is why Poland is the most vocal in regard to the Russian aggression. The Russian advances have implications for the perilous freedom of the Baltic states and the former puppet states of Poland, Hungary and Romania. The Poles know that they have to take a tough stand now and that they cannot rely on the guarantees of the EU. The EU economy would collapse without Russian energy imports and Putin knows that. The only reason he hasn't reduced the energy flow despite the crippling sanctions is that Russia needs that hard currency to finance its military.

The Crimean crisis may also be a lifeline to the struggling Canadian energy sector which is suffering from low prices in its largest market, the USA.

The CBC had this report;

The Russian invasion of Crimea is making Alberta's oil and gas more attractive in European capitals, says Poland's ambassador to Canada.

Poland supports the idea of importing Canadian oil and gas, envoy Marcin Bosacki said Wednesday prior to the start of a two-day visit to his country by Foreign Affairs Minister John Baird. "This point of view is being shared in a growing number of European capitals in the last two months since the Crimea invasion," Bosacki said. "Of course, we are absolutely in favour of increasing the abilities of ... western Canada oil and gas to be exported also to Europe."Earlier this week, Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk argued in an article in the Financial Times that the European Union should become less dependent on Russian energy sources