Almost all Thai labourers deep in debt

[slipperylobster]

really tugs at my leash to see 16 year old kids with no license driving brand new cars up here in Udon. The moms are even on the blacklist, but the headman's wife shows up to guarantee the loan (not that it ever gets paid).

I, by the way, am unable to get credit...even with 100,000 baht/per month income. (Not married and my gal is also blacklisted). Well, in truth, they will let me buy with 50 percent down (on a car)....but what good is that? I prefer to have leverage...for example....how about extending my visa for the length of a loan on a car? With 50 percent down, that is a good incentive to stay.

[sprq]

This article is meaningless without a definition of "labourers" and a statement of their numbers as a proportion of the work force. It seems to me that "workers" is really what it's about, especially given the figure of 15,000 baht a month being said to be low. I would think that all true "labourers" - building site workers, ditch-diggers, farm hands, sweepers, etc - earn much less than this.

Another example of a Thai news report where the writer has not thought to explain the subject properly.

[PatOngo]

There must be a strong buyers market for secondhand/as new Mo Cy's in relatively good conditions.

[pookiki]

From what i have seen in Chiang Mai. The labour is Burmese!

Right on, brother! This was my first reaction when i read the article.Thai businesses have been padding their profit margins for years by exploiting migrant labor. I had lunch in a small restaurant in Mahachai last Sunday. All the wait staff are Burmese. One young woman was new. I asked her how old she was. She was 13!

If Thai society is serious about raising the standard of living for its workers, stop exploiting migrant labor, stop the trafficking of women and children, and stop the pervasive practices of bonded labor in the Thai fishing industry.

[dude123]

My Wife's daughter is married to a construction worker and he works insane hours just to get by. I don't think some Westeners really know just how hard the average Thai laborer has to work just to make ends meet for themselves and their family.

[zyphodb]

What gets me is that their all in debt but do you think I can get one for very good wages & me supplying the equipment, to replace 7 tiles on my roof before the rainy season hits? Nope, the Falang will have to risk life & limb, ( I weigh at least 2 times as much as your average Thai which is why I want to pay someone else to do it) to get it done himself although this is technically illegal. There isn't a day's work in most Thai's, they'd rather sit in their hammocks drinking Lao Chow moaning about how little money they've got... <deleted> annoying... Thai Males I'm talking about, Thai Women work very hard & this Country would completely fall apart without them..

[pookiki]

Karl Marx says to Marie Antoinette, "Credit is the opiate of the masses."

Marie replies, "Let them eat cake at 24%."

I thought Marx said that religion was the opiate of the masses. Either way, it's a good quote. If you look at the struggle of workers in the first few decades or the 20th century, they all occurred before people were tied to credit debt. The workers engaged in meaningful struggles to improve their standard of living. They had nothing to lose. Now, workers are scared shi*less because they can lose their car, their house, etc. etc. My mother was a single parent with two young children during the Depression in the US. She was the most frugal person I ever knew. It took me a while to understand the way in which credit destroys people's lives. But it does and it is as much of a demon as drugs and alcohol. I don't keep any balance on my credit cards and I live within my means. However, if everyone did the same as me, capitalism would collapse. Maybe it's time to find a new system?

[wprime]

Minimum wage inadequate

That said it all, on 7,500 baht/month not considering daily living expenses, it'll take them 4 months to save up for a new iPhone - poor people really have it tough.

Yeah it's tough, but it's not the government's job to bail them out.

But tablets are starting to be fashionable, how are these farmers going to buy their much needed iPad so they can play angry bird or candy crush?

[useronthenet]

I think you will find a large proportion of Thais are already severely in debt, thanks largely to the government for lifting restrictions in borrowing. This has caused inflation to significantly rise, so much so, that Thailand is becoming too expensive already. If you raise the daily salary rate even further that will not solve the problem, as this would allow Thais to borrow more (unless there is a mechanism in place to prevent this from happening) .. so it will be just a vicious circle. Eventually at some point, the piper will have to be paid, and if as expected, the economy retracts even further, then financial institutions will undoubtedly bear the brunt or non-repayment of debt, and cause yet another financial crash as in 1997. The only reason foreign investment injects funds into the county is for this very reason that labour is currently cheap. If this was to end, then they will pullout for pastures new leaving a void of high unemployment. Exports would also suffer as they would have to compete with other Asian countries which are very competitive. Furthermore, tourism will also be affected as prices increase to such heights that it is no longer economical to visit Thailand. The consequences of allowing the status quo to remain the same would be catastrophic for the country. Therefore, the government must put a hold on borrowing to avoid a potential meltdown in the economy.

[Thaddeus]

"I want new mo bye"

"But, do you need it?"

"Wha"

First world aspirations on third world wages.

Btw, I don't know of any Thai labourer who gets even close to 15k Baht a month, unless they are a new Graduate. (sarc)

[bigbamboo]

At least one government policy is working.

[Gunna]

Can anyone say they are really surprised, Thais are very much like children ..must have must have must have…

Well, you just try yourself to get by with wife + 2 kids on less than 15000 Baht per month.

That's nearly impossible! But the worst thing to do in such a scenario is to borrow expensive money. Enter the poverty cycle.

How about they cut back on the 2 large Changs after work every night, and then getting drunk on your days off , and buying those dodgy lottery tickets.

[stickylies]

"I want new mo bye"

"But, do you need it?"

"Wha"

First world aspirations on third world wages.

recently my Nokia 1110 broke down after 9 years. over the years many thai friends asked me why i didn't have a newer "smart" phone. i always said i will buy new phone when the old one dies.

... "no understand farang"

[Local Drunk]

Karl Marx says to Marie Antoinette, "Credit is the opiate of the masses."

Marie replies, "Let them eat cake at 24%."

I thought Marx said that religion was the opiate of the masses. Either way, it's a good quote. If you look at the struggle of workers in the first few decades or the 20th century, they all occurred before people were tied to credit debt. The workers engaged in meaningful struggles to improve their standard of living. They had nothing to lose. Now, workers are scared shi*less because they can lose their car, their house, etc. etc. My mother was a single parent with two young children during the Depression in the US. She was the most frugal person I ever knew. It took me a while to understand the way in which credit destroys people's lives. But it does and it is as much of a demon as drugs and alcohol. I don't keep any balance on my credit cards and I live within my means. However, if everyone did the same as me, capitalism would collapse. Maybe it's time to find a new system?

That was just something off the top of my head this morning... Marx did indeed say religion... I twisted his quote a bit to suit me.

[Chupup]

That's what you get for not letting Thaksin come back.

If he was here everyone would have been rich in 6 months.

He said so.

Love the Satire, nice one Robby

[BillyBobThai]

Wants, Needs, Got to haves

[Chupup]

When i first moved to Esan the rice was all labour intensive,then i noticed a couple of machines doing the work but basicly it was still labour intensive, Then YL promised all workers a 300bht minimum wage which started the price rises, Now i see mostly machines working the paddys and very much higher prices in the stores

The Moral is " be careful what you wish for..... you just might grt it"

[Eli1]

The debt problems of the Thai labourers are only going to get worse over the coming years. In the Thai social ladder unskilled workers are about the lowest of the low. Most have terrible accommodation, tin sheds and such, no sign ever of an improvement in their daily living standards, all their costs going up never down, nothing to offer their children for the child's future, their woes just continue to mount and not one political party wants to help them.

The current turmoil in the streets of Bangkok has nothing to do with "rich vs poor", it's all about getting control of the system to make the leaders and hangers of a group on get into the extremely rich pickings of Goverment money. The Reds never talk about how they will improve the lives of the less well off, they prattle on for hours about defending Democracy, the evil strengths of the "Elite" etc etc. The other side yabbas away about corruption and how it is wrong but never have said how they will eliminate it from Thailand. They talk of reforms but again what and how are not supplied. It's all about me and bugger all others. How many law suites have been promised because one person said something to upset another from the opposing side.

One day soon the great mass of Thais will awake and say "What about me?" " Who is going to look after my interests and improve the miserable life I lead" The nations of the West over the last 200 years were most fortunate to have inspired people to push for the rights of the less well off and the political parties of the day either accepted that or disappeared from the system. Never have I seen a political party in Thailand stand up and promise to help the people of Thailand go forward so all reap the benefit of good, honest , practical and sound decisions. It's all about ,"Thainess" which is another way of saying "up you mate"

The damage of the last 10/12 years can all be laid at the feet of the most self centered people who lead both factions of the divide. May they one day wake up to their folly as the mass of people here will rise and take over.

BAYBOY.

Sorry mate.... but you are just ranting on about how Thailand has a social underclass which is struggling.

But hey... I got news for you... Every country in the world also have their very own struggling social underclass.

I am sure if there was a solution to the problem, political parties would be falling over themselves to bring in such policy fit for a veritable Utopia.

I think the fact that not a single nation has been able to form a Utopia where everyone is rich and nobody has financial problems screams out to me that Thailand is actually NOT unique.

On the one hand you criticize others for not coming up with reform plans that you seem to think will fix this problem, and on the other hand you offer up none of your own solutions..... Countries and their struggling social underclasses around the globe await your words of wisdom.

Unless you can find the alchemy to fix it.... your rant is therefore just useless rhetoric.

What you call rants, are commonly called opinions...

I can't understand why in each of your post you have to make personal attacks.

An opinion doesn't make someone right, My kid's seem too have a lot of opinions ...

[AnotherOneAmerican]

From what i have seen in Chiang Mai. The labour is Burmese!

On my Moobaan in CM, all the laborers are Burmese and get paid 150bht/day with utils and a shack thrown in.

[newcomer71]

The debt problems of the Thai labourers are only going to get worse over the coming years. In the Thai social ladder unskilled workers are about the lowest of the low. Most have terrible accommodation, tin sheds and such, no sign ever of an improvement in their daily living standards, all their costs going up never down, nothing to offer their children for the child's future, their woes just continue to mount and not one political party wants to help them.

The current turmoil in the streets of Bangkok has nothing to do with "rich vs poor", it's all about getting control of the system to make the leaders and hangers of a group on get into the extremely rich pickings of Goverment money. The Reds never talk about how they will improve the lives of the less well off, they prattle on for hours about defending Democracy, the evil strengths of the "Elite" etc etc. The other side yabbas away about corruption and how it is wrong but never have said how they will eliminate it from Thailand. They talk of reforms but again what and how are not supplied. It's all about me and bugger all others. How many law suites have been promised because one person said something to upset another from the opposing side.

One day soon the great mass of Thais will awake and say "What about me?" " Who is going to look after my interests and improve the miserable life I lead" The nations of the West over the last 200 years were most fortunate to have inspired people to push for the rights of the less well off and the political parties of the day either accepted that or disappeared from the system. Never have I seen a political party in Thailand stand up and promise to help the people of Thailand go forward so all reap the benefit of good, honest , practical and sound decisions. It's all about ,"Thainess" which is another way of saying "up you mate"

The damage of the last 10/12 years can all be laid at the feet of the most self centered people who lead both factions of the divide. May they one day wake up to their folly as the mass of people here will rise and take over.

BAYBOY.

Sorry mate.... but you are just ranting on about how Thailand has a social underclass which is struggling.

But hey... I got news for you... Every country in the world also have their very own struggling social underclass.

I am sure if there was a solution to the problem, political parties would be falling over themselves to bring in such policy fit for a veritable Utopia.

I think the fact that not a single nation has been able to form a Utopia where everyone is rich and nobody has financial problems screams out to me that Thailand is actually NOT unique.

On the one hand you criticize others for not coming up with reform plans that you seem to think will fix this problem, and on the other hand you offer up none of your own solutions..... Countries and their struggling social underclasses around the globe await your words of wisdom.

Unless you can find the alchemy to fix it.... your rant is therefore just useless rhetoric.

What you call rants, are commonly called opinions...

I can't understand why in each of your post you have to make personal attacks.

An opinion doesn't make someone right, My kid's seem too have a lot of opinions ...

I did not write BAYBOY is right. I just feel it's childish for WoppyDoo to attack anyone has an opinion different from him. It's frankly annoying.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Why get married when you cannot even feed yourself?

Two can live cheaper than one.

Share accomodation, cook food for two at the same time, share appliances and transport.

Not that I think marriage is a good idea.

[how241]

From what i have seen in Chiang Mai. The labour is Burmese!

Indeed. And they really get the short end of the stick. Grossly underpaid and over worked.

+1...That's a big part of the problem...Underpaid.

[Eloelo]

Put yourself in a working class mans shoes in Thailand, your born poor, your repressed by the system that hardly allows you to advance, your family constantly makes demands on your time and resources, as there is always a useless family member that needs care. your left with a diet of rice plus. you watch Thai soap operas with all the Actors rich handsome and showing off stuff, on comes the ad saying you can have a new car and instantly you are transported out of your misery. even if only temporarily you feel rich...I guess if I was in their shoes I would be drinking whisky, playing up, gambling, and borrowing to the hilt. Because your life is a prison and any escape is worth it...And The ad makers know this..

[BAYBOY]

WoopyDoo, thanks for the kind comments.......

The opening OP of this thread was about how Thai labourers are getting deeper into debt and the problems that that causes to society.

My "rant" as you called it was actually my opinion of how I see the situation as written.

First .. The number of poor debt ridden people hare in Thailand in relation to the richer and better off people would show a huge imbalance in favour of the poor. My complaint is that NONE of the current political parties here has formulated policies to help improve the life of millions of their Thai constituents. Remember also that the poor labourers are only part of the problem. Rural Thailand has a huge number of poor who struggle to live from day to day. But no Thai is offering any solutions to THEIR problems.

Second.. We both know Utopia can not be found ...man is not that perfect.

Third... You and I live here and again we both know that whatever our opinions are about Thailand there is notthing either of us can do to change the suiitation.....we can just venture our opinions as we do here on Thai Visa, as we see it and LEARN to accept that my opinion is mine and I am entitled to have it. Also 12 others liked my opinion

BAYBOY?

[godden]

Having the tastes of a millionaire and the pocket of a pauper doesn't help.

[xminator]

Can anyone say they are really surprised, Thais are very much like children ..must have must have must have…without thinking of consequences like REPAYING the Loans etc..ESP the Shark loans

Plus lets not forget on top of personal loans etc Inflation is affecting millions just on food purchase and daily school costs for children

This is going to create massive civil unrest far worse than what is being seen now

Or you can turn that to the fact that everyone get bombarded by the lakorn dream and luxury advertisements. 24/7 bombardment by materialism in every media outlet. And when the thai economy is driven by a large amount of people on minimum wages - or even commission - this is the result.

The debt is just a symptom, the cause is a system that is slavery of the low paid to support the luxury life of the 1% and the materialistic needs of the 10%.

[DrTuner]

Not surprising, seeing as there has been a sudden boom of new cars, houses, etc in the last five years, I suspect the middle classes are also up to their necks in it. Debt has been pumped into the system and inflation is the result, leading to more credit being taken and so on. It'll burst one day. The banks really can't be blamed, they are just doing what they are meant to do, converting debt into money with the fractional reserve system.

It's the people who take the loans to get a sudden upgrade in lifestyle who are responsible and they're also the ones that'll eventually get shafted.

[attrayant]

Is there a credit tracking system in Thailand such as most countries have (e.g. TRansunion, Experia, Equifax)? How are low income people qualifying for loans that they can't afford? Banks here are not stupid. There has to be some way to assess credit worthiness here.

[DrTuner]

How are low income people qualifying for loans that they can't afford? Banks here are not stupid. There has to be some way to assess credit worthiness here.

I've witnessed a couple of Thais getting a loan with falsified statements of income from an "trusted agent" they paid to vouch for them. Same "service" was offered to my wife when they heard we were shopping for a house a couple of years back. I have no idea if this "agent" is affiliated with the bank, probably yes.

Another one is what my sister-in-law did, when she bought a condo, the price on paper was higher than the actual price paid, that way she could get enough to buy the furniture as well. Seems to be a common practice.

[zyphodb]

Consumerism has gone mad here, & it's successive government's fault,& the Banks,& the media. As someone else said it's hard to blame the poor uneducated Thai's for it, they've just been brainwashed by the media & government, how can you explain the consequences of debt to people who find it hard to think beyond the end of the week? I'm afraid that they've been royally screwed by the rich & it's all going to come crashing down on them sooner or later..

I ride the 20 km into my nearest town in Isaan to do my shopping on a 20 year old, falling apart Honda Wave with a rusty Thai style sidecar & I'm looked at,(by the ones who aren't laughing at me) as though Iv'e just landed from Mars,What's Falang doing on that? why hasn't he got a new pick up? When I bother to explain to some of them that I don't actually need a pick up Iv'e yet to find one who doesn't think I'm completely Ting Tong for not having a new car/pick up as I can afford one. In their minds if they haven't got one they lose "face" with everyone else & I'm afraid that I can't see this mindset ever changing...