Condo Issues

[crazyfalang]

Hello People.

Now... I purchased a condo in Bang Saray i went there 3 years ago to look at a Barron field where it was going to be built. It said on my forms that Cash buyers( that is me as i have paid cash for it) will receive A Free queen size Bed.. Sofa.. One Air Condition.Wardrobe. etc. only the bare essentials..... Now the Condo is complete and i have visited it a few times when i was over in Thailand and i had no furniture and no kitchen sink, taps or cupboards.

I am now working away so i sent an E-Mail explaining if it is ready to move in (yet again) they said yes(again) and i mentioned about my so called Free furniture and they wrote back saying that after checking my documents and contract the have to inform me that there is no furniture included. !!!!

Now i have seen pictures of the condo with the so called free furniture inside as it was all white in some of the rooms and i am wondering do i have a leg to stand on. !!!!!

Much Appreciated.....

[KittenKong]

Welcome to the joys of buying off-plan in Thailand.

You should probably be thankful that you have 4 walls and a ceiling. (You do have 4 walls and a ceiling, don't you?)

[Soutpeel]

Welcome to the joys of buying off-plan in Thailand.

You should probably be thankful that you have 4 walls and a ceiling. (You do have 4 walls and a ceiling, don't you?)

Most likely, but the light switches, sockets and other fixture's will extra LOL

[balo]

Did you read the contract ? If the developer promised a fully furnished unit it will be in the documents that you signed. Seems like you didn't do your homework .

And no kitchen sink ? How cheap is your condo ?

Edited April 29, 2014 by balo

[Rooo]

Moved to real estate.

[LennyW]

i am wondering do i have a leg to stand on. !!!!!

Not a table leg obviously!

[KittenKong]

"Now i have seen pictures of the condo with the so called free furniture inside ...."

Pictures aren't contractual. If your contract doesn't say in black on white that you will be getting a bed, kitchen, air-con etc etc then they aren't included. Even then you have to watch out for clauses like "specification subject to change" which can mean that instead of the nice fitted granite and teak kitchen in the show room you actually get a plastic bucket and a bottle of water.

You have to remember that new-build sales in Thailand are entirely founded on lies and deceit. Barely one word in a hundred that you hear anywhere will be the truth and once you have signed on the dotted no one will give a flying xxxx about you. With an existing property you can at least see what you are getting before you pay (but still no one will give a flying xxxx about you).

"Caveat emptor" was invented for Thailand.

[Langsuan Man]

Once again rules for living in Thailand

1. Don't ship with FEDEX

2. Don't buy off plan

3. Don't fall in love with a bar girl

4. Don't invest more than you can afford to loose

5. Leave your preconceived notions of fair play on the baggage claim belt at the airport when you arrive

[chris2004]

Buying off plan - just asking for trouble.

[isawasnake]

I was supposed to get a, much less significant, microwave.... or something like that..... never heard about it.

I think once they get the money here, they stamp "sucker" on your forehead and could care less about any quibbles you have, contractual or not (farang won't fight us and win in Thailand).

I am sure if I would have mentioned my microwave, or demanded it, it would have been met with Thai running around looking worried for a few moments, followed by a sorry faced looking bird telling me at the end of it all "no include microwave", and that is supposed to be good enough for me.

I suppose the only way to deal with them is to hold back the large portion of the cash until you see the final product. If they are not ok with it, be ok with walking.

[Cosmo88]

Welcome to the joys of buying off-plan in Thailand.

You should probably be thankful that you have 4 walls and a ceiling. (You do have 4 walls and a ceiling, don't you?)

These kinds of comments are not helpful at all.

Just because some TV members or their friends have put money into cowboy developments, it has nothing to do with the concept of off-plan per se.

There are several excellent and reputable SET-listed developers in Thailand and in the region.

Relevant advise to people interested in Thai property is: select the developer very carefully.

[Langsuan Man]

If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, chances are it is duck, so if all our comments warn anyone on the dangers of buying off plan from any developer in Thailand we have done a public service

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[JeremyBowskill]

Once again rules for living in Thailand

1. Don't ship with FEDEX

2. Don't buy off plan

3. Don't fall in love with a bar girl

4. Don't invest more than you can afford to loose

5. Leave your preconceived notions of fair play on the baggage claim belt at the airport when you arrive

Agree with the FEDEX 1, the rest well just use yer brain as its the same the world over.

[PattayaPhom]

Sounds like either AD or Sirisa/Le Beach. Both have had problems as management companies changing and are trying to pass the buck by saying Somchai doesn't work here any more. If you bought through an agent consult them, we managed to obtain free air cons, TVs and kitchens from AD for our customers due to late completion

[KittenKong]

Welcome to the joys of buying off-plan in Thailand.

You should probably be thankful that you have 4 walls and a ceiling. (You do have 4 walls and a ceiling, don't you?)

These kinds of comments are not helpful at all.

Well, if they serve to make just one other person think twice before "investing" in off-plan Thai real estate then I think they are very helpful.

Just because some TV members or their friends have put money into cowboy developments, it has nothing to do with the concept of off-plan per se.

There are several excellent and reputable SET-listed developers in Thailand and in the region.

The concept of off-plan purchasing in Thailand is nothing but a vast Ponzi scheme that one day will probably turn round and bite everyone involved in it on the backside. But as long is it's not my backside I really dont care very much. Even so, I do feel a certain moral duty to point out the potential downsides of it to my fellow man, in the same way as I would advise against getting involved with Yaba addicts.

Whilst a handful of developers may be "excellent and reputable" the agents who work for them are still mostly just cheap liars and cheats looking for some quick commission. Anyone who trusts them is a fool.

[ezzra]

As it have been said here already, if what you were promised isn't inked down, than you

pretty much on your own with legal recourse to pursue, you can try and reason with the people

in charge there but I wouldn't hold my breath there for too long.... just chalk it (bad) experience...

[Thai Travel Bug]

Have purchased three condo's off plan in the last 5 years, a reputable company, and have dealt with the same company each time.

Have never had a problem, purchased in foreign name, and rented. Good build, good amenities, good location. Purchasing off

plan in Thailand is neither a Ponzi scheme, nor a bad investment, as long as you deal with a reputable company with a good track

record. As for any investment, due diligence, and a contract supporting anything that has verbally been said at the time of sale.

Edited May 1, 2014 by Thai Travel Bug

[Cosmo88]

Welcome to the joys of buying off-plan in Thailand.

You should probably be thankful that you have 4 walls and a ceiling. (You do have 4 walls and a ceiling, don't you?)

These kinds of comments are not helpful at all.

Well, if they serve to make just one other person think twice before "investing" in off-plan Thai real estate then I think they are very helpful.

Just because some TV members or their friends have put money into cowboy developments, it has nothing to do with the concept of off-plan per se.

There are several excellent and reputable SET-listed developers in Thailand and in the region.

The concept of off-plan purchasing in Thailand is nothing but a vast Ponzi scheme that one day will probably turn round and bite everyone involved in it on the backside. But as long is it's not my backside I really dont care very much. Even so, I do feel a certain moral duty to point out the potential downsides of it to my fellow man, in the same way as I would advise against getting involved with Yaba addicts.

Whilst a handful of developers may be "excellent and reputable" the agents who work for them are still mostly just cheap liars and cheats looking for some quick commission. Anyone who trusts them is a fool.

Well you may of course have your own opinions, that may be shaped by own experience and bitterness over bad decisions. But don't make negative generalized advice based on them.

There is no reason at all to suggest that the "off-plan" business model has any sinister motives, and moreover for such motives to exist particularly in Thailand and not in the rest of the world.

Finally, in dealing with reputable developers for an off-plan purchase, or even a re-sale, a clever person deals directly with the developers without middle men.

As others have said here, common sense prevails, in Thailand and elsewhere.

Edited May 1, 2014 by Cosmo88

[KittenKong]

Well you may of course have your own opinions, that may be shaped by own experience and bitterness over bad decisions. But don't make negative generalized advice based on them.

I have zero personal experience with Thai off-plan property. Nor do I want any. Why? Because I am not a fool. My investments are elsewhere, in countries in which I can own things outright, that have proper consumer protection and, above all, in which I have permanent right of abode. This may be why I have a lot of money, all in investments which have a definite value and belong to me outright, and why every year that amount increases.

I do own one Thai condo in which I live. It is nothing that I would call an investment and indeed I mentally wrote off the entire purchase price the day I bought it. I treat it as advance rental payment and in fact I would not have bought it at all had I been able to rent it, or something like it.

There is no reason at all to suggest that the "off-plan" business model has any sinister motives, and moreover for such motives to exist particularly in Thailand and not in the rest of the world.

I see nothing elsewhere that is similar to the practice here of selling units at a large discount at launch to off-plan buyers who will then "flip" the units in a few months by which time the developer price may have risen by 30% or more. This is precisely how Ponzi schemes work.

Finally, in dealing with reputable developers for an off-plan purchase, or even a re-sale, a clever person deals directly with the developers without middle men.

I wont argue with that. But how many buyers here are clever? Not many, I suspect.

[healthbkkbkk]

About 10 years ago I paid 14 million for a house.

The house still isn't finished and the project has been abandoned.

I also paid 1.5 million to have furniture custome made.

The furniture arrived but in such poor condition it can't be used.

I'm not saying there is nothing you can do but I have learned to never pay for anything in advance.

Edited May 1, 2014 by healthbkkbkk

[Cosmo88]

About 10 years ago I paid 14 million for a house.

The house still isn't finished and the project has been abandoned.

I also paid 1.5 million to have furniture custome made.

The furniture arrived but in such poor condition it can't be used.

I'm not saying there is nothing you can do but I have learned to never pay for anything in advance.

Apples and oranges again.

Foreigners can not own land in Thailand, hence trying to buy houses in Thailand can never be recommended, UNLESS you are in the happy minority in a stable marriage with a Thai spouse.

In case you missed the title of the post, the discussion is about condos, which foreigners can legally own freehold (up to 49% of any development).

Edited May 1, 2014 by Cosmo88

[rayongchelsea]

"Now i have seen pictures of the condo with the so called free furniture inside ...."

Pictures aren't contractual. If your contract doesn't say in black on white that you will be getting a bed, kitchen, air-con etc etc then they aren't included. Even then you have to watch out for clauses like "specification subject to change" which can mean that instead of the nice fitted granite and teak kitchen in the show room you actually get a plastic bucket and a bottle of water.

You have to remember that new-build sales in Thailand are entirely founded on lies and deceit. Barely one word in a hundred that you hear anywhere will be the truth and once you have signed on the dotted no one will give a flying xxxx about you. With an existing property you can at least see what you are getting before you pay (but still no one will give a flying xxxx about you).

"Caveat emptor" was invented for Thailand.

The 2008 Condominium Act Amendments provide the following additional protections for buyers:

1. The advertisements and brochures used by a condominium developer to sell condominium units are deemed to be part of the contract of sale of the condominium units, and any inconsistencies between those marketing materials and the contract of sale will be interpreted in favor of the buyer or prospective buyer. Those marketing materials are required to be consistent with the application for registration of the condominium filed by the developer with the Land Department, and the developer is required to maintain copies of those marketing materials until all the units have been sold. The condominium is also required to maintain a copy of those marketing materials.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Cosmo88]

There is no reason at all to suggest that the "off-plan" business model has any sinister motives, and moreover for such motives to exist particularly in Thailand and not in the rest of the world.

I see nothing elsewhere that is similar to the practice here of selling units at a large discount at launch to off-plan buyers who will then "flip" the units in a few months by which time the developer price may have risen by 30% or more. This is precisely how Ponzi schemes work.

This is an interesting point. Since the off-plan business model itself does "encourage" early bulk sales due to the desire of risk reduction, and hence subsequent "flipping", it is not strange that it happens.

But just because you don't "see it elsewhere", doesn't actually mean that it doesn't occur elsewhere.

I would be very surprised if it didn't occur outside Thailand, including the US and Europe.

[PattayaPhom]

Well you may of course have your own opinions, that may be shaped by own experience and bitterness over bad decisions. But don't make negative generalized advice based on them.

I have zero personal experience with Thai off-plan property. Nor do I want any. Why? Because I am not a fool. My investments are elsewhere, in countries in which I can own things outright, that have proper consumer protection and, above all, in which I have permanent right of abode. This may be why I have a lot of money, all in investments which have a definite value and belong to me outright, and why every year that amount increases.

I do own one Thai condo in which I live. It is nothing that I would call an investment and indeed I mentally wrote off the entire purchase price the day I bought it. I treat it as advance rental payment and in fact I would not have bought it at all had I been able to rent it, or something like it.

There is no reason at all to suggest that the "off-plan" business model has any sinister motives, and moreover for such motives to exist particularly in Thailand and not in the rest of the world.

I see nothing elsewhere that is similar to the practice here of selling units at a large discount at launch to off-plan buyers who will then "flip" the units in a few months by which time the developer price may have risen by 30% or more. This is precisely how Ponzi schemes work.

Finally, in dealing with reputable developers for an off-plan purchase, or even a re-sale, a clever person deals directly with the developers without middle men.

I wont argue with that. But how many buyers here are clever? Not many, I suspect.

Thats not strictly true....12 customers we sold to have received 2 air cons, free television and a fitted kitchen whereby the "clever ones" that went direct to the developer have received nothing ...and befor saying they got a cheaper price,in fact they paid more as we recinded part commission as a cashback.The clever ones are waitingon electrics to be repaired and an assortment ofother issues whereas our customers have already moved in or secured tenants,

[healthbkkbkk]

About 10 years ago I paid 14 million for a house.

The house still isn't finished and the project has been abandoned.

I also paid 1.5 million to have furniture custome made.

The furniture arrived but in such poor condition it can't be used.

I'm not saying there is nothing you can do but I have learned to never pay for anything in advance.

Apples and oranges again.

Foreigners can not own land in Thailand, hence trying to buy houses in Thailand can never be recommended, UNLESS you are in the happy minority in a stable marriage with a Thai spouse.

In case you missed the title of the post, the discussion is about condos, which foreigners can legally own freehold (up to 49% of any development).

Well Gee, I guess you told me, didn't you?

Now can you tell me the purpose of your comment as I see nothing constructive in it other than to add to your comment count?

The point being that once the money is paid it is very difficult to recuperate it as a general rule ergo the same holds for a condo or house.

Since you don't know me your silly remark about foreigners owning land is frivalous.

Many companies building housing projects or condos will form a new company for each construction site. If this company changes hands, goes broke or is dissolved it is next to impossible to obtain any money from them.

Now woukld you like to comment on the weather or the price of tea in China?

[KittenKong]

About 10 years ago I paid 14 million for a house.

The house still isn't finished and the project has been abandoned.

I also paid 1.5 million to have furniture custome made.

The furniture arrived but in such poor condition it can't be used.

[KittenKong]

Foreigners can not own land in Thailand, hence trying to buy houses in Thailand can never be recommended, UNLESS you are in the happy minority in a stable marriage with a Thai spouse.

In case you missed the title of the post, the discussion is about condos, which foreigners can legally own freehold (up to 49% of any development).

Yes, farang name condos are a much safer bet than houses are. But even so you (a farang) still only own a minority interest in a building in a country from which you could be ejected at a moment's notice, on the whim of some new government perhaps. This bothers me. Also the existing law could be changed, or varied in some way so as to make the ownership less desirable or more expensive. This bothers me too.

And of course even the precarious 49% condo ownership rules dont help the many farangs who are talked into buying Thai-name units for "investment" via some company structure.

[KittenKong]

The 2008 Condominium Act Amendments provide the following additional protections for buyers:

Interesting. I didn't know that.

But presumably one would still have to sue (or at least threaten to sue with legal backing) to get satisfaction? And even if you go to court and win, what happens if the developer lacks (apparently) the ability to pay compensation or provide the missing items?

[Cosmo88]

Foreigners can not own land in Thailand, hence trying to buy houses in Thailand can never be recommended, UNLESS you are in the happy minority in a stable marriage with a Thai spouse.

In case you missed the title of the post, the discussion is about condos, which foreigners can legally own freehold (up to 49% of any development).

Yes, farang name condos are a much safer bet than houses are. But even so you (a farang) still only own a minority interest in a building in a country from which you could be ejected at a moment's notice, on the whim of some new government perhaps. This bothers me. Also the existing law could be changed, or varied in some way so as to make the ownership less desirable or more expensive. This bothers me too.

And of course even the precarious 49% condo ownership rules dont help the many farangs who are talked into buying Thai-name units for "investment" via some company structure.

Well, nothing is totally risk free except (possibly) US government bonds. Most experienced investors accept the very minor condo ownership risk in Thailand.

On the second point, people don't suddenly become stupid once they arrive in Thailand. It is most likely a pre-existing condition.

Edited May 1, 2014 by Cosmo88

[healthbkkbkk]

The 2008 Condominium Act Amendments provide the following additional protections for buyers:

Interesting. I didn't know that.

But presumably one would still have to sue (or at least threaten to sue with legal backing) to get satisfaction? And even if you go to court and win, what happens if the developer lacks (apparently) the ability to pay compensation or provide the missing items?

That's why many set up a new company for each construction project. I have also found that going to court can take many years, is very expensive; one must render a certain sum at the court and should one lose the case that sum is forfeited. One can also lose because of a simple oversight in filing paperwork.