Australian man accused of sex abuse dies in Thailand prison

[fred007]

An elderly Australian man who allegedly raped four young sisters in Thailand has died in jail in Chiang Mai.

Karl Joseph Kraus, 94, was arrested in 2010 in one of the worst cases of child sexual abuse ever uncovered in Thailand.

German-born Kraus, a former railway worker from Sydney who lived for a time in Western Australia, was accused of abusing the four sisters for almost two years.

The youngest was aged five when the alleged abuse began.

At the time of his arrest, police said they found more than 100 photos of naked children on the hard drive of his computer.

Kraus pleaded not guilty to rape and sexual assault.

He had attempted to have the charges against him dropped because of ill health.

His lawyer had argued that he suffered from depression and advanced prostate cancer

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-05-02/elderly-australian-accused-of-sex-abuse-dies-in-thailand/5427894

Now Karl Kraus will have to answer to his maker .

[wooloomooloo]

Now Karl Kraus will have to answer to his maker.

Have you got some inside knowledge that we should know about, fred.

[speedtripler]

surprised he lasted 4 years in a thai prison at his age ............

[thaibeachlovers]

<Now Karl Kraus will have to answer to his maker .>

So he was actually guilty then, and it wasn't a fit up to extort money from him then? I guess you were there, to answer that question.

Anyone know if the pictures he allegedly had on his computer were of the girls he is accused over? It would be a simple matter for the police ( if they were in on a scam ) to add them to the computer.

Let's be realistic, how many 90 year olds do you know that still have an interest in sex? For myself, ZERO.

I find it fantastical that it could go on for 2 years without the parent's involvement.

In the very slim ( IMO ) chance that it did happen, I'd reckon that the parents were getting paid off by him, and when he no longer wanted to pay, they shopped him to the cops. Of course, nothing will ever happen to them, whether for pimping their daughters or being terrible parents.

[KhunBENQ]

So he was actually guilty then, and it wasn't a fit up to extort money from him then?

And how does the possible involment/guilt of the parents (your theory?) excuse his atrocious crimes?

You seem to have some deep insight of the case to invent such a scenario.

Good that he is gone!

[Som wat]

Very sad.

Many, many people believe the case to be a complete scam set up to relieve the innocent old man (almost 90 when accused) of his money before he died.

Which was apparently done quite successfully.

Far more believable, especially for those who followed the case from the start.

RiP.

[KhunBENQ]

Wish I'd knew the truth.

[Thaddeus]

Wish I'd knew the truth.

The truth is a rare commodity seldom shared by those that have it.

[Som wat]

Start of the case was reportedly that the girl's father was sending them to his house, then he began extorting him threatening charges of xxxxx, after payments were made and further ones were refused the police were made aware and the police extortion reportedly began. As it made the media at this stage the police then 'found' images of xxxxx (but not the girls in the original reported extortion) on his computer amid claims from him that he was being extorted by all and sundry for nothing.

90 year's old. No previous records. Money. Thais.....

I know which side I believe.

RIP

Edited May 3, 2014 by Som wat

[chooka]

They dragged this out for 4 yrs and he was never found guilty of any offence.

[Beetlejuice]

Very sad.

Many, many people believe the case to be a complete scam set up to relieve the innocent old man (almost 90 when accused) of his money before he died.

Which was apparently done quite successfully.

Far more believable, especially for those who followed the case from the start.

RiP.

I followed this case and completely agree with you.

I doubt if a 90 year old man would know how to use a computer, let alone know where to find indecent images of children. I also doubt that he could raise it and become sexually aroused at that age.

A total set up in my opinion, a sad state of affairs indeed and such a terrible tragedy for someone who has lived so long and approaching the end of his life.

RIP and my sincere sympathies go out for to the family of this man.

[LaraC]

If he was innocent, then it is indeed very sad.
However, should add that pedophillia is more complex than just sexual desire and arosal (and erection and intercourse).
Studies have show than even pedophile males who have had their testicals removed still maintain a desire to sexually abuse children.
It is a more complex brain and impulse issue than just the sexual act.

[aussiebebe]

If he was innocent, then it is indeed very sad.

However, should add that pedophillia is more complex than just sexual desire and arosal (and erection and intercourse).

Studies have show than even pedophile males who have had their testicals removed still maintain a desire to sexually abuse children.

It is a more complex brain and impulse issue than just the sexual act.

Really? I thought castration was a cure - don't they offer 'chemical castration' to offenders? I thought that worked.

I agree with you that the condition does appear to be complex, though.

[LaraC]

If he was innocent, then it is indeed very sad.

However, should add that pedophillia is more complex than just sexual desire and arosal (and erection and intercourse).

Studies have show than even pedophile males who have had their testicals removed still maintain a desire to sexually abuse children.

It is a more complex brain and impulse issue than just the sexual act.

Really? I thought castration was a cure - don't they offer 'chemical castration' to offenders? I thought that worked.

I agree with you that the condition does appear to be complex, though.

THere will be better sources on the net than the one i have posted below, but yes, sadly chemical (or actual) castration does not seem to be cure. One quote from the source below: "Sex-offending behavior is not solely driven by hormones. If you get rid of or reduce hormones, the problems aren't solved,"

http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/Expert-says-castration-no-cure-for-pedophilia-1913426.php

[chooka]

Very sad.

Many, many people believe the case to be a complete scam set up to relieve the innocent old man (almost 90 when accused) of his money before he died.

Which was apparently done quite successfully.

Far more believable, especially for those who followed the case from the start.

RiP.

I followed this case and completely agree with you.

I doubt if a 90 year old man would know how to use a computer, let alone know where to find indecent images of children. I also doubt that he could raise it and become sexually aroused at that age.

A total set up in my opinion, a sad state of affairs indeed and such a terrible tragedy for someone who has lived so long and approaching the end of his life.

RIP and my sincere sympathies go out for to the family of this man.

I agree. As a serving Police Officer, I hate Rock Spiders. This guy has never been convicted of any offence and died alone in a cockroach invested cell in Thailand at the age of 94. Locked up 2 years and never got his day in court. Probably didn't even know his own name.

P.S this story should be in the Thai News Forum as that is where the original story was and this is somewhat a conclusion to that story.

Edited May 3, 2014 by chooka

[Oscar2]

Very sad.

Many, many people believe the case to be a complete scam set up to relieve the innocent old man (almost 90 when accused) of his money before he died.

Which was apparently done quite successfully.

Far more believable, especially for those who followed the case from the start.

RiP.

i followed the case and have my doubts about his guilt. and i'm not one to have much sympathy for child molesters. but something wasn't right in this case.

[samran]

Very sad.

Many, many people believe the case to be a complete scam set up to relieve the innocent old man (almost 90 when accused) of his money before he died.

Which was apparently done quite successfully.

Far more believable, especially for those who followed the case from the start.

RiP.

I followed this case and completely agree with you.

I doubt if a 90 year old man would know how to use a computer, let alone know where to find indecent images of children. I also doubt that he could raise it and become sexually aroused at that age.

A total set up in my opinion, a sad state of affairs indeed and such a terrible tragedy for someone who has lived so long and approaching the end of his life.

RIP and my sincere sympathies go out for to the family of this man.

I agree. As a serving Police Officer, I hate Rock Spiders. This guy has never been convicted of any offence and died alone in a cockroach invested cell in Thailand at the age of 94. Locked up 2 years and never got his day in court. Probably didn't even know his own name.

P.S this story should be in the Thai News Forum as that is where the original story was and this is somewhat a conclusion to that story.

I wonder what, if any, role the AFP would have and in this. Usually with miscarriages of process, if not justice in this case, you can sometimes hear the jungle drums down on sathorn having something to say about it... Edited May 3, 2014 by samran

[thaibeachlovers]

So he was actually guilty then, and it wasn't a fit up to extort money from him then?

And how does the possible involment/guilt of the parents (your theory?) excuse his atrocious crimes?

You seem to have some deep insight of the case to invent such a scenario.

Good that he is gone!

You seem to be wilfully ignoring the point of my post which is that he may be innocent of the charges. Unless you were there you can't say that he is guilty, as this case is so full of doubt that it is likely he was fitted up.

[thaibeachlovers]

If there is anything to dislike about Thailand, the fact that a man that shoots a policeman dead in a night club can escape punishment, while a likely innocent and never convicted 90 year old man is left to rot and die in a jail cell for years would be high on my list.

[NeverSure]

If he was innocent, then it is indeed very sad.

However, should add that pedophillia is more complex than just sexual desire and arosal (and erection and intercourse).

Studies have show than even pedophile males who have had their testicals removed still maintain a desire to sexually abuse children.

It is a more complex brain and impulse issue than just the sexual act.

Really? I thought castration was a cure - don't they offer 'chemical castration' to offenders? I thought that worked.

I agree with you that the condition does appear to be complex, though.

For many sex offenders including those who rape adult women, it isn't about sex but about control. They have a sick need to dominate someone, and how much deeper into that could one get than sexual violation?

I have no idea if this guy was guilty, but one wouldn't need to be sexually able to commit a sex violation.

[Jessi]

I have followed this case for more than a year because I believe the man was being set up.

One time he was said to have raped the children he in fact was in Australia having surgery for prostrate cancer, this was stated in a news article some time ago.

I had him checked out by my contacts in Australia and also Interpol and he has no previous record of ANY crime.

Kraus said in an interview that he was offered a deal by the police, they would drop the charges for a payment of 500,000B

I know a lot more about this case but I cant put it on a open forum.

If he was a Pedo and guilty of these charges I hope he burns in hell.

If he was innocent (which I believe) I hope he can now RiP.

[Jessi]

<Now Karl Kraus will have to answer to his maker .>

So he was actually guilty then, and it wasn't a fit up to extort money from him then? I guess you were there, to answer that question.

Anyone know if the pictures he allegedly had on his computer were of the girls he is accused over? It would be a simple matter for the police ( if they were in on a scam ) to add them to the computer.

Let's be realistic, how many 90 year olds do you know that still have an interest in sex? For myself, ZERO.

I find it fantastical that it could go on for 2 years without the parent's involvement.

In the very slim ( IMO ) chance that it did happen, I'd reckon that the parents were getting paid off by him, and when he no longer wanted to pay, they shopped him to the cops. Of course, nothing will ever happen to them, whether for pimping their daughters or being terrible parents.

The pictures on his computer were police hearsay, no one has ever seen them....It sure makes one wonder.

[thaibeachlovers]

If he was innocent, then it is indeed very sad.

However, should add that pedophillia is more complex than just sexual desire and arosal (and erection and intercourse).

Studies have show than even pedophile males who have had their testicals removed still maintain a desire to sexually abuse children.

It is a more complex brain and impulse issue than just the sexual act.

Really? I thought castration was a cure - don't they offer 'chemical castration' to offenders? I thought that worked.

I agree with you that the condition does appear to be complex, though.

For many sex offenders including those who rape adult women, it isn't about sex but about control. They have a sick need to dominate someone, and how much deeper into that could one get than sexual violation?

I have no idea if this guy was guilty, but one wouldn't need to be sexually able to commit a sex violation.

In the western countries I have lived in, it has become more or less a sex violation merely to look at a woman if she is young or attractive. Thankfully, now that so many western women are overweight, and to me unattractive, the chance of being publicly branded a perve by aggressive, loud women is miniscule.

I have long been aware that merely being alone in a room with an unrelated female of any age is a passport to all sort of awful allegations, so I wouldn't do it myself, but I do know that the only way a man can be alone with young children in Thailand is with the parents collusion. So either they were in on it, or it didn't happen.

[Som wat]

<Now Karl Kraus will have to answer to his maker .>

So he was actually guilty then, and it wasn't a fit up to extort money from him then? I guess you were there, to answer that question.

Anyone know if the pictures he allegedly had on his computer were of the girls he is accused over? It would be a simple matter for the police ( if they were in on a scam ) to add them to the computer.

Let's be realistic, how many 90 year olds do you know that still have an interest in sex? For myself, ZERO.

I find it fantastical that it could go on for 2 years without the parent's involvement.

In the very slim ( IMO ) chance that it did happen, I'd reckon that the parents were getting paid off by him, and when he no longer wanted to pay, they shopped him to the cops. Of course, nothing will ever happen to them, whether for pimping their daughters or being terrible parents.

The pictures on his computer were police hearsay, no one has ever seen them....It sure makes one wonder.

IIRC they were also only declared to exist after claims of police extortion were made.

There's nothing local powers like to do more than teach someone a lesson for daring to speak out against them. Just look at the cases of Simon Burrowes and Annice Smoel in Phuket.

Both sent to jail, one for calling an officer an idiot while flying home, one for 'stealing' a bar mat as a joke with a friend (while being a mother of four).

Make public claims against Thais with power, you're going to be taught a painful lesson in appropriate behaviour, no matter how ttue your claims are.

Edited May 7, 2014 by Som wat

[Thaiberius]

Ms Smoel broght that whole thing upon herself by being a beligerent drunk farang who deserved everything she got. The beer mat is a smokescreen in order to try and trivialise what was disgusting behaviour.

[healthbkkbkk]

I was once donating to an NPO that cared for adused children.

There was a girl, around 13, whose farrang step father was in prison for having relations with her.

I thought that was horrible of course but one day this girl came to me and tried to seduce me.

I now ponder at the true guilt of the step father.

before those with big imaginations post their insults: even if the girl was willing and seduced the man it is still a crime and I do not condone it but did he really do it?

[samran]

I was once donating to an NPO that cared for adused children.

There was a girl, around 13, whose farrang step father was in prison for having relations with her.

I thought that was horrible of course but one day this girl came to me and tried to seduce me.

I now ponder at the true guilt of the step father.

before those with big imaginations post their insults: even if the girl was willing and seduced the man it is still a crime and I do not condone it but did he really do it?

ummm...you're the adult in the equation. Brain being engaged is all that is needed - as clearly you understood. But the step dad didn't. His role should have been to guide, not exploit.

No need for insults needed on this one.

Edited May 7, 2014 by samran

[thaibeachlovers]

I was once donating to an NPO that cared for adused children.

There was a girl, around 13, whose farrang step father was in prison for having relations with her.

I thought that was horrible of course but one day this girl came to me and tried to seduce me.

I now ponder at the true guilt of the step father.

before those with big imaginations post their insults: even if the girl was willing and seduced the man it is still a crime and I do not condone it but did he really do it?

While it was a crime in Thailand, it would not be in other countries in which it is lawful to marry a 13 year old. Jerry Lee Lewis legally married a 13 year old in the USA, so why "horrible"?

Back home, it would probably be a rare girl to still be a virgin at 16 ( age of consent ).

[KissMyAxe]

Well i suppose no one will ever know now... but all these conspiracy theories make a lot of sense and are highly possible over here when money is concerned..

Sent from my SM-N900 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[donniereadit]

<Now Karl Kraus will have to answer to his maker .>

So he was actually guilty then, and it wasn't a fit up to extort money from him then? I guess you were there, to answer that question.

Anyone know if the pictures he allegedly had on his computer were of the girls he is accused over? It would be a simple matter for the police ( if they were in on a scam ) to add them to the computer.

Let's be realistic, how many 90 year olds do you know that still have an interest in sex? For myself, ZERO.

I find it fantastical that it could go on for 2 years without the parent's involvement.

In the very slim ( IMO ) chance that it did happen, I'd reckon that the parents were getting paid off by him, and when he no longer wanted to pay, they shopped him to the cops. Of course, nothing will ever happen to them, whether for pimping their daughters or being terrible parents.

Actually, corrupt police would likely do the opposite and not let the problem come into the public spotlight.

Were talking sexual abuse here, not necessarily intercourse, which does not subside with age. Not at all unrealistic that many dudes here may have these sorts of inclinations.