Guess how it's done!

[a99az]

I am English my wife Thai we arrived in England last October and my wife has just received her British Residents card back (affixed into her Thai passport) from the Home Office it took less than a month, but we was told it could take six months.

We decided to test it out and took a return trip to France from Dover to do a little shopping.

We went by car and our first stop was French immigration a warm welcome a look at our passports and he wished us a good trip and we was off. Our return trip was much the same we stopped at the French immigration showed out passports was wished a good trip and a few meters on we did the same with British immigration with the same result.

Now my question is how do you think we where able to do this with out a visa for my wife to visit France? I will give the answer when you have made a guess.

[RAZZELL]

Well, as a wife of UK national she is exercising her treaty rights by accompanying you.

You either got lucky (the IO's understood EU directives/law), or more likely they couldn't be bothered

But I wouldn't fancy trying to get on a plane without a Schengen!

RAZZ

Edited May 5, 2014 by RAZZELL

[matsky13]

I agree Razzell is probably close to the mark ,Or Was a bottle of pastis or 2 involved . Only joking the french border control guys would not do such a thing . I am very interested to know the excact answer though .Also how easy was it to get the residency card I am guessing thats something to do with the MR Singh route ?

[RAZZELL]

By "residency card" I'm assuming you mean the plastic FLR ?

RAZZ

[Donutz]

With "British Residents card" you mean a standard UK residence card (immigration, based on family/spouse), thus having long term ressident permit/rights in the UK? In that case there should be no problem accessing the Schengen area together with you (bordering a plane might be a problem as Razell says, they aren't familiar with 2004/38). If she went by herself she would need a (free!) Schengen visa.

If you did the SS/route traveling toghether there most certainly wouldn't be any need for a visa to any other EU country.

Returning to the UK should be straight forward:

- if she has ressidency there UK) she should be able to pass without any problems (show the card, be waived through)

- if her ressidency rights were not established yet and you did the EU/SS route she still shouldn't have any problems

- if her ressidency rights were not established yet an she returned with you (UK citizen to the UK), there might be a fuzz (you need a visa blablabla).

The answer I would expect would be "we were waived through, no hassle at all" but I guess this was not the case... So do enlighten us, what did they bring up to question/deny her entry back to the UK?

So where does you story/situation fit in here?

http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/entry-exit/non-eu-family/index_en.htm

Edited May 5, 2014 by Donutz

[a99az]

I agree Razzell is probably close to the mark ,Or Was a bottle of pastis or 2 involved . Only joking the french border control guys would not do such a thing . I am very interested to know the excact answer though .Also how easy was it to get the residency card I am guessing thats something to do with the MR Singh route ?

Well you are right we did do the free Mr Singh route into the UK, and as my wife holds a Spanish residence card it would be hard for them to refuse her entry into France.

She was issued a 5 year British: "Residence Card of a Family Member of an EEA National"

Remarks "Employment and Business Activities Allowed".

Even though I am British I am being treated as an EEA national Brussels Law has more clout. The card was easy to get if you qualify.

[a99az]

Well, as a wife of UK national she is exercising her treaty rights by accompanying you.

You either got lucky (the IO's understood EU directives/law), or more likely they couldn't be bothered

But I wouldn't fancy trying to get on a plane without a Schengen!

RAZZ

She has flown into Spain without a Schengen visa from Thailand, just shows her Spanish residents card and Thai passport. Nothing new in this.

[cornishcarlos]

Excuse my ignorance, what is the Mr Singh route into U.K

Plus what was reqd for your wife to apply for her residence card ?

[a99az]

With "British Residents card" you mean a standard UK residence card (immigration, based on family/spouse), thus having long term ressident permit/rights in the UK? In that case there should be no problem accessing the Schengen area together with you (bordering a plane might be a problem as Razell says, they aren't familiar with 2004/38). If she went by herself she would need a (free!) Schengen visa.

If you did the SS/route traveling toghether there most certainly wouldn't be any need for a visa to any other EU country.

Returning to the UK should be straight forward:

- if she has ressidency there UK) she should be able to pass without any problems (show the card, be waived through)

- if her ressidency rights were not established yet and you did the EU/SS route she still shouldn't have any problems

- if her ressidency rights were not established yet an she returned with you (UK citizen to the UK), there might be a fuzz (you need a visa blablabla).

The answer I would expect would be "we were waived through, no hassle at all" but I guess this was not the case... So do enlighten us, what did they bring up to question/deny her entry back to the UK?

So where does you story/situation fit in here?

http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/entry-exit/non-eu-family/index_en.htm

Went the SS route and she holds a permanent Spanish RC and a British RC. So when she travels by plane into Europe she shows her card and passport and they must not stamp the passport. Just as they did not stamp her passport when going to or from France. Very handy, that does not mean that they don't track how long you are away for, say no more. Anyway hope this helps some.

[a99az]

Excuse my ignorance, what is the Mr Singh route into U.K

Plus what was reqd for your wife to apply for her residence card ?

Surinder Singh route - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As for residence card she needs to be here to apply.

[Donutz]

I dropped an E and a U there. Meant to write "SS/EU route" and perhaps it's known by more names (we Dutchies often call it "Belgium/Germany/French/Spain/... route"), all comes down to using directive 2004/38 (freedom of movement rights). by living in an other EU member state for a while (which oddly enough seems to differ from state to state, the EU high court ruled in a case vs the Netherlands that 3 months of actual ressidence in an other country is sufficient, but the UK seems to be more strict and hasn't been wrist slapped by the court yet -nobody in the UK dragged the immigration department to court yet?).

If a99z's wife has a ressidence card from Spain (never ever hand those in, some countries/municipalities ask for it back though once you unregister and move back to the orginal country of the EU family member) and a British ressidence card there shouldn't be any problems at all. And indeed since visa requirements are waived for those excersising the rights of a EU/EEA citizen under 2004/36 they shouldn't even place any kind of stamp either. Though some officiers seem unaware/unwilling of this and thus stamp the passport anyway. This might have happend to 199z's wife. Which would be a minor mistake with no consequenues, but I guess the officer in question made things more difficult to this (your wife has no visa/ressidence blablabla, can't let you in just like that. Family? Got to see some supporting documents blablabla superior officer blablabla you're wasting my time you should get your documents in order before you travel blablabla). Am I close or do I lack trust in border guards?

Edited May 5, 2014 by Donutz

[RAZZELL]

Well, as a wife of UK national she is exercising her treaty rights by accompanying you.

You either got lucky (the IO's understood EU directives/law), or more likely they couldn't be bothered

But I wouldn't fancy trying to get on a plane without a Schengen!

RAZZ

She has flown into Spain without a Schengen visa from Thailand, just shows her Spanish residents card and Thai passport. Nothing new in this.

If she has a residents card for Spain I can see why they wouldn't ask for a Schengen

I know of people with ILR who have tried to board a plane with their partners from the UK to another EU destination - refused! Doesn't matter how you argue - if they don't know the rules and don't listen you won't get on that plane.

RAZZ

[a99az]

Well, as a wife of UK national she is exercising her treaty rights by accompanying you.

You either got lucky (the IO's understood EU directives/law), or more likely they couldn't be bothered

But I wouldn't fancy trying to get on a plane without a Schengen!

RAZZ

She has flown into Spain without a Schengen visa from Thailand, just shows her Spanish residents card and Thai passport. Nothing new in this.

If she has a residents card for Spain I can see why they wouldn't ask for a Schengen

I know of people with ILR who have tried to board a plane with their partners from the UK to another EU destination - refused! Doesn't matter how you argue - if they don't know the rules and don't listen you won't get on that plane.

RAZZ

No real argument, if they cause you to miss your flight they will be the ones who will be picking up the costs. I have some where a document with the rules and it requires them to give a valid reason for refusing her to board her flight then they must sign it. Once they have done that you can then make a claim for your losses. I think most reasonable people would want to make sure that they have done the right thing before refusing her to take her flight. I would not want to push it in Thailand as they tend to make there own rules.

[RAZZELL]

Well, as a wife of UK national she is exercising her treaty rights by accompanying you.

You either got lucky (the IO's understood EU directives/law), or more likely they couldn't be bothered

But I wouldn't fancy trying to get on a plane without a Schengen!

RAZZ

She has flown into Spain without a Schengen visa from Thailand, just shows her Spanish residents card and Thai passport. Nothing new in this.

If she has a residents card for Spain I can see why they wouldn't ask for a Schengen

I know of people with ILR who have tried to board a plane with their partners from the UK to another EU destination - refused! Doesn't matter how you argue - if they don't know the rules and don't listen you won't get on that plane.

RAZZ

No real argument, if they cause you to miss your flight they will be the ones who will be picking up the costs. I have some where a document with the rules and it requires them to give a valid reason for refusing her to board her flight then they must sign it. Once they have done that you can then make a claim for your losses. I think most reasonable people would want to make sure that they have done the right thing before refusing her to take her flight. I would not want to push it in Thailand as they tend to make there own rules.

You've obviously never flown with a low-cost airline

RAZZ