Final crackdown for border runners - New strict Immigration regulation in force from today

[watso63]

I had a triple entry tourist visa issued in the UK because i was just coming over for a few months as i expected to back to the UK within that time for work, the work has not yet started, there fore i am having to 'Milk' the system until my job starts.

Now in that period of time i have bought a house and spent over 400,000 baht here in Thailand, does that sound to you like milking the system or Thailand milking me of my hard earned cash?

Enough said!

Then why not go back to the UK and wait for your job to start there? You don't have to stay in Thailand, but if you want to then go to the nearest consulate where you can get more tourist visas. Not accusing you of milking anything but your post sounds confusing (unless your job is in Thailand).

[hawker9000]

After 27 pages of moralizing, lecturing, bickering, some old & stale information along with the usual confusion over visas & visa exempt, repeated statement & restatement & rerestatement of the original announcement, translation & attempted translation & reattempted translation, interpretation, ego, and just plain meaningless argument, what WOULD REALLY HELP NOW is to NOT make readers wade thru 27 more pgs of the same thing just to find out (...wait for it...):

WHAT'S REALLY HAPPENING AT THE BORDER CROSSINGS!!

A very few (relative to the noise level) have posted to let us know that a couple of places are still handing out 30d stamps as before. That's very helpful and relevant. We shouldn't have to work so hard filtering thru all the rest just to find out what's actually taking place.

[4evermaat]

Visa-on-arrival is simply a misnomer referring to VISA EXEMPT entry.

Technically,there is a separate Visa-on-Arrival type of visa. Only certain countries are allowed VEs, again the same for VoAs, and then there are some countries that do not qualify for either must obtain a visa prior to entering thailand, usually at a specific embassy.

But similar to extensions vs visa, people usually confuse the terminology of VoA vs VE.

[samran]

Don't know why Thailand doesn't just charge $20-40 for 15/30 days, and cash in.

Yeah, a 30d visa for 40$ would likely solve a lot of issues. Make it an E-Visa and everybody ought to be happy.

Of course, too rational and modern, not going to happen.

Yep, can I go live in the us or uk too for $30 per month. Let's open that one up to everyone. Given that it is rational and modern and all that...

[stoneyboy]

Don't know why Thailand doesn't just charge $20-40 for 15/30 days, and cash in.

Yeah, a 30d visa for 40$ would likely solve a lot of issues. Make it an E-Visa and everybody ought to be happy.

Of course, too rational and modern, not going to happen.

Yep, can I go live in the us or uk too for $30 per month. Let's open that one up to everyone. Given that it is rational and modern and all that...

You can do it for free if your from the EU.

[DrTuner]

Don't know why Thailand doesn't just charge $20-40 for 15/30 days, and cash in.

Yeah, a 30d visa for 40$ would likely solve a lot of issues. Make it an E-Visa and everybody ought to be happy.

Of course, too rational and modern, not going to happen.

Yep, can I go live in the us or uk too for $30 per month. Let's open that one up to everyone. Given that it is rational and modern and all that...

Adjust it to an index, say 100$/month, why not ? Of course as a non national you're not entitled to any social benefits from a foreign country, just a paying customer, same as farangs in Thailand. Put a price on it and you have your method of control, an effective one. Edited May 11, 2014 by DrTuner

[ubonjoe]

I have removed a post bashing other members that contained a good deal of incorrect info along with some replies to it.

[John1thru10]

Well... that day has finally come.

One wonders if immigration, in their usual farsightedness, has increased the capacity of neighbouring Thai consulates to deal with the huge influx of proper visa-seekers. Of course, each consulate has the autonomy to refuse to issue visas if the crowds prove too inconvenient for them. Expect chaos on your next visa run.

You don't understand, apparently. They aren't giving tourist visas to most people now. That began about a year or more ago. If you have ever had tourist visas before - REGARDLESS or their date (could be from years ago) they are denying tourist visas. When one finally figures out all the runaround and catch-22's of this, what it really indicates, is that a faction in Thialand doesn't want anyone here who is regulaly here, any longer. From now on, it seems, tourists are to only be allowed 30 days, period.

[salamat]

If anybody has personally experienced specific border crossings in northern Thailand that gave out 15 or 30 day stamps today (Sunday), could you please post these specific border crossing locations.

[mikebike]

Technically,there is a separate Visa-on-Arrival type of visa. Only certain countries are allowed VEs, again the same for VoAs, and then there are some countries that do not qualify for either must obtain a visa prior to entering thailand, usually at a specific embassy.

But similar to extensions vs visa, people usually confuse the terminology of VoA vs VE.

Which is why I preambled with 'most western nationals'...

To be more clear, there is VoA but it is not applicable to MOST of the posters and G7+ nationals.

[mikebike]

You are incorrect. Teachers at Bangkok University in recent times, have been required to make 15/30 land crossings, despite legitimate employment at established universities.

Why would they have to do 15/30s if they have a work permit and visa? If 'established universities' cannot provide legitimate work permits/visas annually to legitimate professors then the fault lies with the uni's system/administration. Teachers being exploited again. Its sad that there is so little respect for such an important profession.

Edited May 11, 2014 by mikebike

[ubonjoe]

Well... that day has finally come.

One wonders if immigration, in their usual farsightedness, has increased the capacity of neighbouring Thai consulates to deal with the huge influx of proper visa-seekers. Of course, each consulate has the autonomy to refuse to issue visas if the crowds prove too inconvenient for them. Expect chaos on your next visa run.

You don't understand, apparently. They aren't giving tourist visas to most people now. That began about a year or more ago. If you have ever had tourist visas before - REGARDLESS or their date (could be from years ago) they are denying tourist visas. When one finally figures out all the runaround and catch-22's of this, what it really indicates, is that a faction in Thialand doesn't want anyone here who is regulaly here, any longer. From now on, it seems, tourists are to only be allowed 30 days, period.

That is completely false information. There are people getting tourist visas with several tourist visas in their passports all the time at nearby locations.

[ubonjoe]

You are incorrect. Teachers at Bangkok University in recent times, have been required to make 15/30 land crossings, despite legitimate employment at established universities.

That is nonsense.

If they are working with work permits they can easily get extensions of stay.

The only ones making border runs are working illegally.

[Spoonman]

You are incorrect. Teachers at Bangkok University in recent times, have been required to make 15/30 land crossings, despite legitimate employment at established universities.

That is nonsense.

If they are working with work permits they can easily get extensions of stay.

The only ones making border runs are working illegally.

A minimum salary is needed to get the extension. I would think someone at a BKK university is on a salary that would meet the requirement though.

[BlueEasySleep]

I flew back into the country a few weeks ago on a re-entry permit after visiting Europe for 2 weeks.

I have a proper ED Visa from a Thai public university (I'm spending about 300,000/year on tuition).

The guy at the passport line at the airport told me I must be working and didn't want to let me in and sent me to his supervisor.

They get a little nutty sometimes.

I think the issue basically comes down to money.

You should be able to show your bank account, and if you have enough to support yourself, you can stay on a 1 year visa.

If you have about 2200 baht to your name and no work permit, you can't.

Age is irrelevant.

Problem solved.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

You are incorrect. Teachers at Bangkok University in recent times, have been required to make 15/30 land crossings, despite legitimate employment at established universities.

That is nonsense.

If they are working with work permits they can easily get extensions of stay.

The only ones making border runs are working illegally.

A minimum salary is needed to get the extension. I would think someone at a BKK university is on a salary that would meet the requirement though.

I believe teachers are excluded from the minimum salary requirements.

(PS. University lecturers are often paid less than schoolteachers all over the world)

[MikeandDow]

Well... that day has finally come.

One wonders if immigration, in their usual farsightedness, has increased the capacity of neighbouring Thai consulates to deal with the huge influx of proper visa-seekers. Of course, each consulate has the autonomy to refuse to issue visas if the crowds prove too inconvenient for them. Expect chaos on your next visa run.

You don't understand, apparently. They aren't giving tourist visas to most people now. That began about a year or more ago. If you have ever had tourist visas before - REGARDLESS or their date (could be from years ago) they are denying tourist visas. When one finally figures out all the runaround and catch-22's of this, what it really indicates, is that a faction in Thialand doesn't want anyone here who is regulaly here, any longer. From now on, it seems, tourists are to only be allowed 30 days, period.

what a crock totally false info, don't post if you can not substantiate this

[Mario2008]

A minimum salary is needed to get the extension. I would think someone at a BKK university is on a salary that would meet the requirement though.

If a minimum salary is needed depends on the job. For a teacher for instance there is no minimum income requirement, that includes teachers at a university.

[BlueEasySleep]

Can someone explain to me how to milk the country as a foreigner?

It sounds like a lot of people must be doing it.

But I've been here a few years and haven't seen any udders.

If you know where they're located, PM me.

[hawker9000]

The whole thing does sort of have the ring of some official who's just been chewed out or denied an expected promotion pitching a massive xenophobic hissy fit.

[TallPalm]

IMHO the consistent problem IS NOT with the laws, rules, interpretation or enforcement. It is with the communication of said laws, rules, interpretation or enforcement. Proper communication and a suitable transition period are totally absent for most of these dictums and THAT is unreasonable and unprofessional.

Also having a hard time understanding the undertones of entitlement of many posters. It is not the job of Thai Immigration and/or Foreign Ministry to make your life easier, it is your responsibility to fit into the pidgin-holes they create, or lobby to the appropriate authorities for change. It has ever been so for tourists, immigrants and expats worldwide.

Reasonable? Professional? TIT!

[retell]

For years reading complaints about officials ,police not enforcing the laws they made ,they make a serious effort to start doing things by their book it gets even more complaining , love tv .

[bangkoklasse]

In case you need an ED visa Walen School provides most reliable service. Thousands of satisfied customers.

I think your business will pick up considerably soon.

Probably, and then everybody here complains, the ED-Visa is abused.

What's the correct Visa for someone, who lives on his Savings, is not yet 50 (retirement visa), does none business, volunteering, study, is there any????

Don't come now up, with the investment visa (requires 10 million, right). Who want to invest 10 million, in a country where the gov. changes twice a year

Why should there be a special visa for such a person? It's not like all people on the globe have a right to live in Thailand just because they like that. Try telling the Immigration in USA, UK, Norway or Germany if you are a foreigner, that you like to live in their country. But you don't like to work, invest, study or do anything. And you don't like to bring any big money because you don't like their Gov.

[Gumballl]

Looks like visa on arrival could soon be history.

People have to get a visa which makes more money for the bent officials.

Does anyone know how much a visa is these days?

People such as oil and gas and mining guys wont want to waste their valuable time off travelling to an embassy in another country then waiting for a visa just so they can have their month off. These blokes will be lost to other countries such as Cambodia and The PI who still have sane and workable visa policies. Their departure will be an enormous financial blow to Phuket.

As one of those O&G guys, I totally agree with u.

Yep...but it is not just oil and gas, Phuket, and other parts of Thailand have a good many miners also who are fly in fly out. These guys earn big money and spend heavily on their time off. Unfortunately for Thailand's economy many will now move to other countries such as the PI and Cambodia.

So what? Should I cry if they choose to go elsewhere? How does their decision to remain in Thailand or any other country my concern, or even yours?

[Spoonman]

A minimum salary is needed to get the extension. I would think someone at a BKK university is on a salary that would meet the requirement though.

If a minimum salary is needed depends on the job. For a teacher for instance there is no minimum income requirement, that includes teachers at a university.

Interesting.

A close relative of mine was (he went home last year) teaching English at a government school for 30k per month. Had the work permit and a non B visa (multi). he could not get an extension as the salary was deemed to be not satisfactory to meet the requirement so he was doing a border run every 90 days for a new stamp. this was not a burden though as the border was close by and there was a golf course on the way.

[Soutpeel]

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Tanis, on 10 May 2014 - 18:34, said:Quote

Soutpeel, on 10 May 2014 - 16:44, said:Quote

nothing to do with being evil......the visa wavier system is intended for tourists from certain countries, not for living and working in Thailand, one suspects the 'English professors" have had a good run, now its time to pay the piper....

if you are living/working here long term do it properly and don't take the p*ss out the system and get some sort of visa...

I've worked here in Thailand for nearly seven years and these border runs have saved my bacon several times due to the incompetence of agencies and schools trying to process work permits and teacher's license. The ones that will be most affected by this dumb rule enforcement are those who are trying to work here legit. What about those who are fired by their school for whatever reason? What recourse do these teachers have other than packing up their bags and going back to their home country? I just love the double standards that Thais employ against foreigners and I love their apologists. Fortunately, I am going back to America next week.

The ones who have had their work permits cancelled still have the option of leaving the country and getting a tourist visa or, simply fly out/fly in to tide them over for an extra 30 days.

The same as they would have to do before the new rules if on an extension of stay based on their work permit. If they have a multi-entry non-O, then they have no problems.

If said teachers were working, having to do border runs to remain in the country, then they ain't doing it right in the first place.........

You are incorrect. Teachers at Bangkok University in recent times, have been required to make 15/30 land crossings, despite legitimate employment at established universities.

If said teachers are jumping 15/30 land crossings then they are working illegally and not legitimately employed, and have no work permits...fact

You are incorrect...

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

For years reading complaints about officials ,police not enforcing the laws they made ,they make a serious effort to start doing things by their book it gets even more complaining , love tv .

Right now, it's NOT that Immigration is enforcing a "new" rule.

Right now, it's mostly that no one's quite sure what the new rule is going to mean, and how it's going to be interpreted on the ground.

Add to that, Immigration isn't thus far doing much public talking on the subject, in addition to springing the new policy on everyone with zero advance notice.

[larsjohnsson]

The other day, I experienced Thai bureaucracy, as described:

Making things difficult, and then withholding crucial info:

I needed to renew my drivers license. It requires 'tabian ban' (proof of residence). I have a yellow 'tabian ban' which has worked for two prior renewals and several other things. Lady at the desk said 'can't use it.' I protested. She turned away, and none of the other workers (heaven forbid) did or said anything to assist me. I had her talk to my Thai attorney on the phone. She didn't budge. Made a 2nd phone call. She didn't budge. The 3rd phone call, she mentioned an option: I could go to the Imm. office and get a signed piece of paper from them. WHY HADN'T SHE OR ANYONE ELSE IN THAT OFFICE MENTIONED THAT OPTION PRIOR?!?! It's a window on to Thai bureaucracy: THEY WANT TO MAKE THINGS DIFFICULT FOR FARANG.

I got the signed paper, and then was charged 400 baht more than Thais, because I have hairy arms and a prominent nose.

I don't see the relevance to this thread with your post but I must ask. the 400b extra you were charged. was this for the licence or the residency certificate ?

It is very relevant because it gives perspective on (at lest part of) the reason the sages at Thai Imm are making things more difficult for tourists to come and enjoy Thailand. Re; the added Bt.400. When it came time to pay for the license renewal, the lady said 105 baht. A second later she grinned and said, "sorry, 505 baht." Normal cost is 105.

A normal tourist never do any renew of a drivers license. Only people who live in Thailand do that. It's not at all about making it more difficult for tourists

[Mister Fixit]

Someone requested a translation of the Thai text include in the article. My (unofficial) translation follows as a public service.

แนวทางปฏิบัติของ สตม.ในการตรวจคนเข้าเมืองของบุคคลสัญชาติเป้าหมาย เช่น เกาหลี ฯลฯ มีดังนี้

In practice, the Office of Immigration, in checking persons entering the country, for persons nationalities such as Korean, etc., shall be thus:

1.ห้ามมิให้ด่านชายแดนมีการอนุญาต Out-In ในลักษณะของ Visa run เพื่อให้ได้รับสิทธิในการอยู่ในราชอาณาจักรต่อเนื่องที่มิใช่เหตุผลเพื่อการ ท่องเที่ยว

1. Immigration stations are not allowed to permit Visa run-type Out-Ins that are intended to get the right to live in the Kingdom continuously, that are not for purposes of tourism.

2.กรณีเดินทางโดยอากาศยานหากตรวจพบว่าอาจเป็นการ Out-In ในลักษณะของ Visa run ให้ว่ากล่าวและแนะนำให้ผู้นั้นดำเนินการขอ Visa ให้ถูกต้องตามวัตถุประสงค์ของการเข้ามาในราชอาณาจักร แล้วอนุโลมให้เข้า ตั้งแต่บัดนี้จนถึงวันที่ 12 ส.ค.57 โดยทำเครื่องหมาย O-I ไว้บริเวณรอยตราประทับ และหลังจากวันที่ 12 ส.ค.57 เป็นต้นไป หากเจ้าหน้าที่ตรวจพบเป็นการ Out-In ให้ปฏิเสธการเข้าเมืองผู้นั้น

2. In the case of travel through airports, if the agent discovers that it might be a Visa run-type Out-In, the agent shall comment and advise the traveler to request a visa by the proper procedure to enter the Kingdom, then allow the traveler to enter. From the present until 12 Aug 2557, issue seal type O-I in the traveler's passport. After 12 Aug 2557, if the agent discovers Out-In, deny entry to the traveler.

หมายเหตุ หากผู้ปฏิบัติมีข้อสงสัยหรือพบปัญหาติดต่อ พล.ต.ต.ชิษณุพงศ์ ยุกตะทัต หรือ พล.ต.ต.ณัฐธร เพราะสุนทร รอง ผบช.สตม. แล้วแต่กรณี

Comment: If the practicing agent has questions or encounters problems, contact Police General Chisanuphong Yooktatat or Police General Natatorn Phrawsoonthorn, commanders of Immigration, depending on the case.

Unfortunately this pretty well means nothing.

1 It seems to assume that back to back ('Out-in')15 or 30 dayers by road are banned with immediate effect but it does not specifically say so.

2 If a person comes in via an airport without a visa then until 11 Aug, if an Immi office thinks the person is trying to do a back to back ('Out-in') they'll be allowed in with an O-I visa (what's that?) and told to come in with a proper visa next time, but for how long will this O-I last? A year? Ninety days? Until 11 August? And can they explain what a visa O-I is?

3 If a visitor feels they have a problem, they should contact the two top people in Immigration for a resolution, but how? No phone number, no email address nothing. Typical Thai style - won't be available, and don't want to be encumbranced by actually doing some work ...

Edited May 11, 2014 by Mister Fixit

[MikeandDow]

The other day, I experienced Thai bureaucracy, as described:

Making things difficult, and then withholding crucial info:

I needed to renew my drivers license. It requires 'tabian ban' (proof of residence). I have a yellow 'tabian ban' which has worked for two prior renewals and several other things. Lady at the desk said 'can't use it.' I protested. She turned away, and none of the other workers (heaven forbid) did or said anything to assist me. I had her talk to my Thai attorney on the phone. She didn't budge. Made a 2nd phone call. She didn't budge. The 3rd phone call, she mentioned an option: I could go to the Imm. office and get a signed piece of paper from them. WHY HADN'T SHE OR ANYONE ELSE IN THAT OFFICE MENTIONED THAT OPTION PRIOR?!?! It's a window on to Thai bureaucracy: THEY WANT TO MAKE THINGS DIFFICULT FOR FARANG.

I got the signed paper, and then was charged 400 baht more than Thais, because I have hairy arms and a prominent nose.

I don't see the relevance to this thread with your post but I must ask. the 400b extra you were charged. was this for the licence or the residency certificate ?

It is very relevant because it gives perspective on (at lest part of) the reason the sages at Thai Imm are making things more difficult for tourists to come and enjoy Thailand. Re; the added Bt.400. When it came time to pay for the license renewal, the lady said 105 baht. A second later she grinned and said, "sorry, 505 baht." Normal cost is 105.

A normal tourist never do any renew of a drivers license. Only people who live in Thailand do that. It's not at all about making it more difficult for tourists

(A normal tourist never do any renew of a drivers license. ) this is a bad assumption, lots of Tourist I know have thai DL and renew if need next time they come on holiday, you need to post correctly (Facts)and not just assumptions.