Thai 'Red Shirts' warn of civil war if government falls

[Asiantravel]

I hope there will be no civil war. Sadly it sounds like the red-shirts want one, based on the rhetoric of the red-shirts.

you see THIS is the problem - it's the 'red shirts' not the fake monk... Suthep and his thugs... it's those pesky 'red shirts'

you KNOW???... the ones who keep WINNING elections... terribly inconvenient to the yellow, elite ammart who want to keep raking in the cash

They win the election, but they don't rule justly.

Therein lies the problem.

As opposed to a People's Council, who will be able to totally ignore justice altogether because they won't be answerable to ANYONE .

I think that's an even bigger problem

[Smokemachine]

Btw, how many at the Aska road? 20k? 30k?

And yesterday I saw one farang on the red stage letting out many air from his @sS

New UDD leader??

What is his name? Someone told me is HAW MOO

Edited May 11, 2014 by Smokemachine

[Piichai]

You're half right. I saw the interview, and read the transcripts from it. He didn't say "he" bought votes, he said the Democratic party spent more on vote buying than the PTP, and they still lost, so, in his opinion "vote buying" had/has no bearing on the final vote count.

No, it's still a lie, he said they spent more in the electoral campaign, not in vote buying.

How is it a "lie" when the interviewer was specifically asking him about vote buying, not about overall spending?

You mean you are surprised when a politician doesn't answer a specific question directly? This is standard play - and every politician does it - change the question to safer ground and answer that instead. Only a fool would have answered such a loaded question - and he simply would not let himself walk into it.

Mis-quoting him later by adding in words that were not in his statement - or even intimated in his statements - is a lie. That is what you were caught out on - you stated above " I saw the interview, and read the transcripts from it. He didn't say "he" bought votes, he said the Democratic party spent more on vote buying than the PTP" - which was untrue. Simples

You know what's crazy about this is that although political parties may disclose what they spend on advertising and campaigning, it is quite simply ludicrous to think that Korn would actually know how much the Reds spend on vote buying.

Even Thaksin doesn't as he has no idea how much is skimmed off the top.

Edited May 11, 2014 by Piichai

[Smokemachine]

It's interesting that the media keeps indicating that getting rid of Taksin created a unstable political environment.

Would appreciate someone pointing out to me when Thailand has had a stable political environment.

I guess the red shirts opinion is that they would rather have Taksin as King of Thailand, and that terrorists will

form their back up enforcement.

And the worst part is the red shirts doesn't care what is Thaksin doing to their country. What have other people suffering at? The red shirts only care about themselves. They love Yingluck, Thaksin and no one else.

They are living in their own red world. They have forgotten other Thais. They forgotten their national flag. What does the national flag means, two stripes red, two stripes white and one stripe blue.

They forgotten who they are.

[Piichai]

You don't need a civil war, Just let the Red Shirts march to parliament and Government House and demand that the area be given back to the government than see what happens from there. It time both sides met and either discuss a solution to their problem or solve it by other means.

The Reds already tried that with the students, and it didn't work out so well for the Reds.

[Piichai]

I am the only person in the world watching the live feed - in the world !! (see view stats under the video on You Tube !)

Not surprising.

[Piichai]

I hope there will be no civil war. Sadly it sounds like the red-shirts want one, based on the rhetoric of the red-shirts.

you see THIS is the problem - it's the 'red shirts' not the fake monk... Suthep and his thugs... it's those pesky 'red shirts'

you KNOW???... the ones who keep WINNING elections... terribly inconvenient to the yellow, elite ammart who want to keep raking in the cash

They win the election, but they don't rule justly.

Therein lies the problem.

As opposed to a People's Council, who will be able to totally ignore justice altogether because they won't be answerable to ANYONE .

I think that's an even bigger problem

Only Suthep cares about the People's Council. Abhist's framework will gain traction.

[Morch]

There won't be a civil war, the army will step in ,all over in a very short time and Red leaders leaving the country

i hope so.

Someone have the time and inclination to create a database of the resident yellows slipping up and wishing for / condoning a military coup? I suggest it be called "the Mask Slips".

PS.

Yeah, I know, "military coup" is actually the 16:th Principle of Democracy. Or something.

Second time now that I see posters talk about making lists of posters supporting different opinions (the previous one was anti-government, btw). Now, not taking you boys literally, and not implying that you personally give it a sinister meaning, but it does echo of darker places and darker times.

I'd rather we don't go there, and that stands for other posts making these arguments and differences in opinion too personal.

Most of us do not vote, and therefore, there's no "your party", no "we won", no "you lost".

Bad enough the Thais are at each other throat.

[pxlgirl]

so lemme get this straight: The govt. while in power failed to grow some balls (pun intended, although the dudes around her seem to lack some as well), police hasn't been able to grab Suthep by the balls, and now the reds want to show they have balls and don't realize they came way too late to the party.

[TimCM]

If it takes a civil war for the majority of the population to retain their civil rights then so be it.

Yes, sadly you may be right. Pity Thailand is not a civilized country and was capable of resolving conflict through discussion. There needs to be a removal from power of the so called elites who are more corrupt and power greedy than Thaksin. I don't in any way want a lynching though, that is the domain of the fuhrer suthep.

[Bernard Flint]

so lemme get this straight: The govt. while in power failed to grow some balls (pun intended, although the dudes around her seem to lack some as well), police hasn't been able to grab Suthep by the balls, and now the reds want to show they have balls and don't realize they came way too late to the party.

Depe3nds who has the shaven ones or hairy ones

[Asiantravel]

you see THIS is the problem - it's the 'red shirts' not the fake monk... Suthep and his thugs... it's those pesky 'red shirts'

you KNOW???... the ones who keep WINNING elections... terribly inconvenient to the yellow, elite ammart who want to keep raking in the cash

They win the election, but they don't rule justly.

Therein lies the problem.

As opposed to a People's Council, who will be able to totally ignore justice altogether because they won't be answerable to ANYONE .

I think that's an even bigger problem

Only Suthep cares about the People's Council. Abhist's framework will gain traction.

Same script different actor

[Morch]

If it takes a civil war for the majority of the population to retain their civil rights then so be it.

Having been in a country where there was a military takeover (where I lost relatives) and having lost civilian relatives in a civil war in another SE Asian country I must admit that I am not keen to lose anymore relatives. In both of these SE Asian countries civil rights have not been restored to the level that currently exist in Thailand. So please excuse me for not sharing your enthusiasm.

I dont think anyone is enthusiastic about a war including the red shirts but what do you expect them to do when their rights are taken away by the elites? Should they try to arrange talks? Should they meekly go home and accept being enslaved again. Accept abysmal wages again? Accept no health insurance again?

This is what is coming sooner than later the elites will take away all the hard earned little progress that has been made in the past ten years. Suthep has declared war to wipe out the fledgling democracy of Thailand before it has a chance to grow strong and Jatuporn vows to defend it.

I hate to say it but the color of destiny is red.

I do not argue that the PTP voters feel cheated. Regardless of their leadership's many faults and obvious transgressions, the bottom line as far as ordinary fold go is that their votes were repeatedly put aside, ignored, trashed and so on and so forth.

It is also quite obvious that unless Thailand does an about turn, their voice will become more dominant in the future. Hard to argue with demographics. It may not necessarily be as PTP or UDD, and hopefully at some point free of Thaksin's shadow.

That said, I don't recall talk about cancelling health care, and doubtful that any future government could survive politically cancelling minimum wages as well. There are probably better ways to make the two sustainable, but scraping them outright isn't all that likely.

There's much to be said about the future of democracy on a global level, but that may be a bit off topic.

[Valentine]

If it takes a civil war for the majority of the population to retain their civil rights then so be it.

Yes, sadly you may be right. Pity Thailand is not a civilized country and was capable of resolving conflict through discussion. There needs to be a removal from power of the so called elites who are more corrupt and power greedy than Thaksin. I don't in any way want a lynching though, that is the domain of the fuhrer suthep.

I believe Germany was a fairly civilized country before handing Hitler absolute power which incidentally came about through elections & the actions of his brown shirts.

[Valentine]

I am continually astonished by red supporters who claim the elites are trying to take away their voting rights when in fact they themselves have another group of elites pulling their strings & getting their votes either by buying or coercion or both. Is this another one of the infamous double standards?

[Morch]

You don't need a civil war, Just let the Red Shirts march to parliament and Government House and demand that the area be given back to the government than see what happens from there. It time both sides met and either discuss a solution to their problem or solve it by other means.

Yeah...that would probably end well.

Just bring the two hot-heads together, have a shouting match, and see how it goes.

Didn't work all that well most times they met.

Most people that actually attend those rallies, especially on a regular basis, are probably

the last people able to compromise or reason with the other side.

Discussions and talk are needed, but probably on a more relaxed venue,

and by more relaxed participants.

[WhizBang]

Thai 'Red Shirts' warn of civil war if government falls -

Bring it on, I say. It's going to happen sooner or later the way this mess is headed, so the sooner the better. Just get it over with. If it doesn't happen now, and the PTP get back in power, we will just have a repeat of this all over again in about 2 years.

The ONLY way to stop it, would be for Thaksin to tell his red shirts/UDD to accept defeat. Tell them he has and is now withdrawing from politics for life, as is the rest of his family. But we all know he won't. He will continue to fund the reds. The big question now is, will he go for broke and pull out all the stops funding a full on insurection?

[Morch]

Thai 'Red Shirts' warn of civil war if government falls -

Bring it on, I say. It's going to happen sooner or later the way this mess is headed, so the sooner the better. Just get it over with. If it doesn't happen now, and the PTP get back in power, we will just have a repeat of this all over again in about 2 years.

The ONLY way to stop it, would be for Thaksin to tell his red shirts/UDD to accept defeat. Tell them he has and is now withdrawing from politics for life, as is the rest of his family. But we all know he won't. He will continue to fund the reds. The big question now is, will he go for broke and pull out all the stops funding a full on insurection?

Somehow doubt most posters calling for a confrontations are actually planning on experiencing the violence first hand.

So easy to send others to play.

"Yeah, all this talk is boring, lets have a war".

There's no "winning" this.

You think an armed confrontation would what...? Make the PTP voters see the light? Convince them to vote Democrat?

On the other hand, it might do wonders to enhance long term feelings of animosity, disenfranchisement and division.

Maybe there are better ways of limiting flow of funds, rather than full scale violence?

[WhizBang]

I do not argue that the PTP voters feel cheated. Regardless of their leadership's many faults and obvious transgressions, the bottom line as far as ordinary fold go is that their votes were repeatedly put aside, ignored, trashed and so on and so forth.

It is also quite obvious that unless Thailand does an about turn, their voice will become more dominant in the future. Hard to argue with demographics. It may not necessarily be as PTP or UDD, and hopefully at some point free of Thaksin's shadow.

That said, I don't recall talk about cancelling health care, and doubtful that any future government could survive politically cancelling minimum wages as well. There are probably better ways to make the two sustainable, but scraping them outright isn't all that likely.

There's much to be said about the future of democracy on a global level, but that may be a bit off topic.

The real problem is education, or lack thereof. The next government must implement real educational reform, and it must extend the entire breadth of the system from kindergarten/pre-school all the way to university level PhD and post doc. The problem is that it will take at least a generation for it to bear fruit.

In the meantime, the red shirts/UDD can solve their own problems themselves. It is actually quite easy, but it willl not bring the instant solutions they want. They need to think of the long term goals and not of the immediate instant gratification.

1: Form their own political party

2: Abandon Thaksin (they do not need him) and the color red

3: Campaign on a platform that is meaningful to the people in the provinces.

4: Find some good honest people from within their own ranks, preferably with some charisma, who will work for the people and the country and not be there simply to line their own pockets.

5: Win an election (honestly, no vote buying) and form an honest government.

They can do it. They just need to get off their asses and work for it. If they have a good platform they can rule the roost easily as the rural folks far outnumber those in Bangkok.

All it will take is a few good people to come forward and start the process. The time is now.

[rebelplatoon]

Mmmmmmm peaceful Red Militia....

Can't imagine any of the posters that seem to be happy that it's going this way.

Reason and negotiations is what can help to cross the divide. Not silly red rhetoric or

Suthep blasting from his stage.

Put the two main political parties together. Decide for certain people not to join in elections

(Abhisit, Shins) agree on the changes that need to be made. Install a business Government

to run day to day affairs. Have elections as soon as the arrangements are made. ASAP.

[Mr Yim]

a lot of wishful thinking on a few newbies on here - use you brain, if suthep was ever gonna be arrested, it would have happened months ago.

The arrest of Suthep by the police will involve a blood bath. If the General came out and said enough is enough to Suthep, he would have no choice but to step down. Without the belief that he has the support of the armed forces, he is finished as he simply does not have the numbers to take on the pro government supporters. However, I very much doubt that the military has the full support of the military.

[Morch]

I do not argue that the PTP voters feel cheated. Regardless of their leadership's many faults and obvious transgressions, the bottom line as far as ordinary fold go is that their votes were repeatedly put aside, ignored, trashed and so on and so forth.

It is also quite obvious that unless Thailand does an about turn, their voice will become more dominant in the future. Hard to argue with demographics. It may not necessarily be as PTP or UDD, and hopefully at some point free of Thaksin's shadow.

That said, I don't recall talk about cancelling health care, and doubtful that any future government could survive politically cancelling minimum wages as well. There are probably better ways to make the two sustainable, but scraping them outright isn't all that likely.

There's much to be said about the future of democracy on a global level, but that may be a bit off topic.

The real problem is education, or lack thereof. The next government must implement real educational reform, and it must extend the entire breadth of the system from kindergarten/pre-school all the way to university level PhD and post doc. The problem is that it will take at least a generation for it to bear fruit.

In the meantime, the red shirts/UDD can solve their own problems themselves. It is actually quite easy, but it willl not bring the instant solutions they want. They need to think of the long term goals and not of the immediate instant gratification.

1: Form their own political party

2: Abandon Thaksin (they do not need him) and the color red

3: Campaign on a platform that is meaningful to the people in the provinces.

4: Find some good honest people from within their own ranks, preferably with some charisma, who will work for the people and the country and not be there simply to line their own pockets.

5: Win an election (honestly, no vote buying) and form an honest government.

They can do it. They just need to get off their asses and work for it. If they have a good platform they can rule the roost easily as the rural folks far outnumber those in Bangkok.

All it will take is a few good people to come forward and start the process. The time is now.

For pretty much the same reasons, non of the political leaderships are awfully keen on people getting better education.

Hard to see a monumental change in the making on this front, as interests remain in place.

Laying it all on the Red-shirts, or PTP voters is an easy way out.

The Democrat Party ought to do some soul searching and reform itself and the way it related to the electorate.

Maybe abandon the backing of old school elites, maybe expanding their appeal to areas beyond Bangkok and the South.

Corruption, vote buying, respecting opinion and rights of other side....both got a lot to improve.

Yet a long way to go, for Thailand.

[fab4]

I am continually astonished by red supporters who claim the elites are trying to take away their voting rights when in fact they themselves have another group of elites pulling their strings & getting their votes either by buying or coercion or both. Is this another one of the infamous double standards?

Regardless of what you think "happens" to those votes at least they have the choice to vote.

[zydeco]

Has Thaksin phoned in to address the UDDers? What about Yingluck? She going over there or not?

[gabruce]

"The Red Shirts cannot accept the undemocratic and unconstitutional appointment of a prime minister," said chairman Jatuporn Prompan

-----------------------

Does this mean that they will be marching on Bangkok to oust the unconstitutionaly appointed acting caretaker prime minister currently in power?

Probably not.

[Alwyn]

If thermy dont get involved with either side, there is going to be only 1 winner

thermys make the World go around

[NoBrainer]

"Thai 'Red Shirts' warn of civil war if government falls"

Seems to me that the Government fell some time ago. Even before it Fell it was dysfunctional & and only interested in consolidating power & self preservation.

[northernjohn]

If it takes a civil war for the majority of the population to retain their civil rights then so be it.

Having been in a country where there was a military takeover (where I lost relatives) and having lost civilian relatives in a civil war in another SE Asian country I must admit that I am not keen to lose anymore relatives. In both of these SE Asian countries civil rights have not been restored to the level that currently exist in Thailand. So please excuse me for not sharing your enthusiasm.

Having lived in a country where a world war was fought and millions died to protect freedoms so that you and I could travel, live and have freedom let me state that democracy has been FOUGHT for... yet they fight AGAINST it here

go figure...

Well I was not raised in your country but in my country they also fought for Democracy. They got it and have kept it ever since. I might add they even helped your country to attain it.

Now mind you they have not had a character like Thaksin come along and try to turn it into a dictatorship. If they had he would have been slapped in Irons.

Yet as you say here in Thailand we have a government made up of PTP red shirts trying desperately to turn it into a Dictatorship. The grass roots people have arisen and will not allow it. They want a reform of the Government so as it will never happen again and then an election to carry on with the principals of Democracy.

You have to understand that Democracy is not receiving a bunch of money from a criminal to do what he wants.

[AYJAYDEE]

If it takes a civil war for the majority of the population to retain their civil rights then so be it.

easy for you to say, i dont see you putting your life on the line

[spermwhale]

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a lot of wishful thinking on a few newbies on here - use you brain, if suthep was ever gonna be arrested, it would have happened months ago.

The number of posts does not mean they don't understand what's going on in Thailand. Some people have a life and don't have time to post 15,000 times like you and some may have just joined and lived here longer than you. And just because you post often doesn't mean you understand anything.