Govt raises legal questions over election of new speaker

[wolf5370]

Surachai beat Jongrak Jutanont, who is supported by the pro-Pheu Thai camp, 96 to 51.

looks to me democratically chosen, but that goes of course against PT policies.

Yes they had a vote. However, when 1/2 the people participating were appointees who were not democratically chosen, the process can not be termed democratic. It becomes even more undemocratic when one takes into account that a large number of those appointed owe their jobs to a military coup which betrayed democracy. The 51 senators who voted for one candidate are mostly made up of senators who were elected. There were also senators who were appointed by the PTP. The unelected senators have far too much power and do not have a mandate from the people. They have a mandate for the ruling group who appointed them, whether it was the military dictatorship, the Democrats or the PTP.

So every country with an appointed upper house is not a democracy then? That is interesting.

[northernjohn]

Surachai beat Jongrak Jutanont, who is supported by the pro-Pheu Thai camp, 96 to 51.

looks to me democratically chosen, but that goes of course against PT policies.

Yes they had a vote. However, when 1/2 the people participating were appointees who were not democratically chosen, the process can not be termed democratic. It becomes even more undemocratic when one takes into account that a large number of those appointed owe their jobs to a military coup which betrayed democracy. The 51 senators who voted for one candidate are mostly made up of senators who were elected. There were also senators who were appointed by the PTP. The unelected senators have far too much power and do not have a mandate from the people. They have a mandate for the ruling group who appointed them, whether it was the military dictatorship, the Democrats or the PTP.

Using your figures it looks like all the appointed ones voted the same way and 24 of the elected ones voted the same as the elected. Some how I just don't think that you got it rite . We know for sure guaranteed money back that some of the elected crossed your invisible line and I would bet that some of the appointed ones also crossed your invisible line.

Would be nice to have Fab1 get in his time machine and go back and tell us when the appointed ones were appointed and when the elected ones were elected. I am not sure but I do believe the time line is staggered not all at once. Could be wrong on that.

[wolf5370]

No need to apologize to me. Just as long as we know that your implication that no democrat party canvassers could canvass in the north for fear of being murdered or beaten up was without foundation, that's fine.

Perhaps you don't understand; there is more foundation that democrat party canvassers cannot canvass in the north for fear of being murdered or beaten up than I care to list.

17 Feb, 2014 - PDRC Stage Near Wat Chet Yot Ripped Apart by Red Shirts

6 Jan, 2014 - Red Shirts Attack Anti-Government Protesters in Chiang Mai

15 Dec, 2013 - Reds surround Dem house, burn effigy in Ubon Ratchathani

And that's just in the span of a couple months (give or take a day or two).

This Red violence is quite distasteful, and really has no place in a modern world.

In the 2011 election alone, at least four canvassers were murdered. How many more were beaten or intimidated?

To argue that Thailand can have fair and free democratic elections under such circumstances is nonsensical.

We can go tit for tat if you like with me naming provinces in the south where it's unsafe to canvass and PDRC attacks in Bangkok but it will not detract from the fact that you stated that democratic party canvassers were murdered in the North with no foundation. It's a lie. End of.

So, you agree reforms are needed to allow for free and fair unhindered (other than by law) canvassing by ALL parties then?

[mikemac]

Does it matter where the Democrat canvassers are killed geographically ?

I just read this article about the killing in Bangkok in 2011 of a Democrat canvasser, a link for fabio, as he loves them so much -

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/PM-troubled-by-murder-of-Democrat-MPs-canvasser-30171702.html

The comments by Chalerm made me sick, what a low life little grub he is.

[Local Drunk]

Which government? There is no government in Thailand.

[millwall_fan]

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Interesting - the so-called PM calls the new speaker invalid as it was not timetabled; at the same time the acting PM is put under question as there ois no remit to appoint a PM other than via election or via the Senate.

...and an election has been called by the new caretaker PM. Given your post, Wolf, I'm sure you will be supporting the upcoming election and condemning those who will seek to disrupt it.

[millwall_fan]

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Considering the 96 to 51 victory of Surachai, the chances are pretty good that Yingluck will be convicted.

PTP could win points by acting contrite, but instead they bluster.

So shameful to watch.

winning points is - well - pointless as the unelected senators hold the balance of power. and they almost all support the elite.

[robblok]

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Considering the 96 to 51 victory of Surachai, the chances are pretty good that Yingluck will be convicted.

PTP could win points by acting contrite, but instead they bluster.

So shameful to watch.

winning points is - well - pointless as the unelected senators hold the balance of power. and they almost all support the elite.

Can you explain to me then why so many of the new laws and regulations went through senate without a problem even some that are real damaging to the democrats ? They might have even voted for Taksin his pardon if the populace had not risen to stop this.

[millwall_fan]

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Considering the 96 to 51 victory of Surachai, the chances are pretty good that Yingluck will be convicted.

PTP could win points by acting contrite, but instead they bluster.

So shameful to watch.

No, what is genuinely shameful to watch is the conga line of TV suckholes endorsing the illegitimate overthrow of democracy

No what really really is shemeful and never ending stink is your always boring red buffalo posts that's what shameful

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Good to see that we Farang can rise above the political impasse and engage in rational debate.

[wolf5370]

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Interesting - the so-called PM calls the new speaker invalid as it was not timetabled; at the same time the acting PM is put under question as there ois no remit to appoint a PM other than via election or via the Senate.

...and an election has been called by the new caretaker PM. Given your post, Wolf, I'm sure you will be supporting the upcoming election and condemning those who will seek to disrupt it.

Me personally? Yes - I would like a new free, fair and safe election. I would also like to see reforms to limit corruption and institutional destruction of safeguards of democracy too. What I would really love to see would be the Red/UDD split or change and throw away the Shin shackles, dump the popularist policies, and return to their origins of core values and policies the masses really need - including the reforms they originally sought, before Thaksin became the polarised focal point and popular policies the cover for mass corruption. Personally I was pro-the Feb elections too - if they could have been fair (i.e. free and safe canvassing - Dems north and PTP south). If the Reds did so (and I doubt the current leadership would allow this of course) they would be accepted by most, the troubles would cease (if they incorporated reforms in their manifesto), and the Dems would be dead int he water and also forced to reform or fade away.

Personally, I was against Suthep invading public offices - and have stated so several time. I was against blocking and disruption the election in Feb (although I am not against the Dems or anyone not standing - that is their choice right?). I am pro protest - it's a part of democracy - but against violence and armed militias (now, in 2010, in 1976 and even in 1973, though that one had some merit at the time). I think the PDRC has some noble aims, but that does not mean I agree that the ends justifies the means - it doesn't. I think the Reds have been thoroughly infiltrated, and destroyed by the rotten fruit festering inside - it needs to cut away the cancer and start again with a fresh batch.

All that is my personal view - which has no more, and no less, merit than anyone else's.

[wolf5370]

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Considering the 96 to 51 victory of Surachai, the chances are pretty good that Yingluck will be convicted.

PTP could win points by acting contrite, but instead they bluster.

So shameful to watch.

winning points is - well - pointless as the unelected senators hold the balance of power. and they almost all support the elite.

How many of the House of Lords are elected (note the House of Lords Reform Bill was dropped on 6 Aug 2012)? Does that make Britain not a democracy? What about a Unicameral System (such as Canada) - a democracy? The USA system a shining example then? Even when the Senate can cause mayhem like they did earlier this year?

[pkspeaker]

I wouldn't bet on them getting 3/5s for ; the only way thay can get that is if the Senate is totally corrupt and ignors international democratic standard.

Yingluck will win the next election by a landslide, it is only then that the Senate will start hearing the case.

Impeachments, especially when you have this woman sitting up there that just won by a landslide, are meant to be hard not easy.

a 'deriliction of duty' accusation is NOT an impeachable offence. It would be chaos in any democracy if general incompetence was allowed to be an impeachable offence. The opposition in every country would accuse the ruling party of incompetence and then sack them from office-it would be anarchy.

There is no evidence in the NACC indictment of Yingluck that she personally profited from this alleged corruption. AND the NaCC did not bring a previous case against rice subsidy corruption that Yingluck could be linked to. The entire case is a financial 'negligence' case and an opinion of a biased prosecutor who brought it in response to protesters.

Even with half the senate appointed, this case is a tough sell, some of the appointed sens are likely to turn on it.

Your comparing all that to the electing a pro-democrat senate speaker (which really doesn't have that much power anyways, despite Sutheps delusions.)

Considering the 96 to 51 victory of Surachai, the chances are pretty good that Yingluck will be convicted.

PTP could win points by acting contrite, but instead they bluster.

So shameful to watch.

[wolf5370]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Considering the 96 to 51 victory of Surachai, the chances are pretty good that Yingluck will be convicted.

PTP could win points by acting contrite, but instead they bluster.

So shameful to watch.

winning points is - well - pointless as the unelected senators hold the balance of power. and they almost all support the elite.

Can you explain to me then why so many of the new laws and regulations went through senate without a problem even some that are real damaging to the democrats ? They might have even voted for Taksin his pardon if the populace had not risen to stop this.

Nothing to do with the ex-speak of course

[wolf5370]

I wouldn't bet on them getting 3/5s for ; the only way thay can get that is if the Senate is totally corrupt and ignors international democratic standard.

Yingluck will win the next election by a landslide, it is only then that the Senate will start hearing the case.

Impeachments, especially when you have this woman sitting up there that just won by a landslide, are meant to be hard not easy.

a 'deriliction of duty' accusation is NOT an impeachable offence. It would be chaos in any democracy if general incompetence was allowed to be an impeachable offence. The opposition in every country would accuse the ruling party of incompetence and then sack them from office-it would be anarchy.

There is no evidence in the NACC indictment of Yingluck that she personally profited from this alleged corruption. AND the NaCC did not bring a previous case against rice subsidy corruption that Yingluck could be linked to. The entire case is a financial 'negligence' case and an opinion of a biased prosecutor who brought it in response to protesters.

Even with half the senate appointed, this case is a tough sell, some of the appointed sens are likely to turn on it.

Your comparing all that to the electing a pro-democrat senate speaker (which really doesn't have that much power anyways, despite Sutheps delusions.)

Considering the 96 to 51 victory of Surachai, the chances are pretty good that Yingluck will be convicted.

PTP could win points by acting contrite, but instead they bluster.

So shameful to watch.

Come now - do you honestly believe if the election goes ahead PTP will win with a landslide - the landslide they didn't get in 2011. Rather than base it on Senatorial speak elections, how about base it on the turn out of the Feb election in unhampered election booths. Apathy - and a time when there was call for the opposite from the Gov. Do you not think base support has taken a severe blow with the failed policies and losses? Really? Do you want to buy a bridge?

[manstr23]

Considering the 96 to 51 victory of Surachai, the chances are pretty good that Yingluck will be convicted.

PTP could win points by acting contrite, but instead they bluster.

So shameful to watch.

No, what is genuinely shameful to watch is the conga line of TV suckholes endorsing the illegitimate overthrow of democracry

Which democracy you are referring to ? Not those shameful incompetent thief's, lying & drunken clowns of PTP that were calling themselves a Government. Perhaps they would be perfect in the country that you are from, for Thailand we hope for something better.

[pkspeaker]

In 2011 they got a landslide considering they got nearly 50% vs the Democrats and more than 50 other smaller partys; that's a huge victory since they were so far ahead of everyone else and some of those minor parties they can include in the govt giving it broad support. making them the only possible choice for the PM and most of the cabnet. In other words Thailands people in 2011 voted for Yingluck Shinawatra to be their PM, not the Dems Abhisit or other Dem. Even if they don't win by that big of a margin everyone knows they will win because the DeMs chose to self destruct instead of honestly competing for the PM and cabnet by running in the election instead of sabotaging it.

I wouldn't bet on them getting 3/5s for ; the only way thay can get that is if the Senate is totally corrupt and ignors international democratic standard.

Yingluck will win the next election by a landslide, it is only then that the Senate will start hearing the case.

Impeachments, especially when you have this woman sitting up there that just won by a landslide, are meant to be hard not easy.

a 'deriliction of duty' accusation is NOT an impeachable offence. It would be chaos in any democracy if general incompetence was allowed to be an impeachable offence. The opposition in every country would accuse the ruling party of incompetence and then sack them from office-it would be anarchy.

There is no evidence in the NACC indictment of Yingluck that she personally profited from this alleged corruption. AND the NaCC did not bring a previous case against rice subsidy corruption that Yingluck could be linked to. The entire case is a financial 'negligence' case and an opinion of a biased prosecutor who brought it in response to protesters.

Even with half the senate appointed, this case is a tough sell, some of the appointed sens are likely to turn on it.

Your comparing all that to the electing a pro-democrat senate speaker (which really doesn't have that much power anyways, despite Sutheps delusions.)

Considering the 96 to 51 victory of Surachai, the chances are pretty good that Yingluck will be convicted.

PTP could win points by acting contrite, but instead they bluster.

So shameful to watch.

Come now - do you honestly believe if the election goes ahead PTP will win with a landslide - the landslide they didn't get in 2011. Rather than base it on Senatorial speak elections, how about base it on the turn out of the Feb election in unhampered election booths. Apathy - and a time when there was call for the opposite from the Gov. Do you not think base support has taken a severe blow with the failed policies and losses? Really? Do you want to buy a bridge?