Prayuth ready to act only as last resort

[Old Man River]

Seems easy enough, Suthep has only to escalate violence via his thugish guards against the red protest group, and presto, the coup he has always been dreaming about, how convinient

Killing of innocent children and other innocents hasn't brought them out yet so please explain your comment.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[Old Man River]

i think a coup may happen but only if a lot of reds turn up in bkk i dont know how many were at there rally yesterday...anyone..

Maybe 10,000.

Zydeco, have you heard a number or are you just tossing it out? I have no clue.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[Publicus]

still waiting for those ptp achievements anything yet surely google or wickileaks could help you..no nothing ok.. must have blocked my posts for fear of the blinding truth..

Your topic has been presented in and can continue to be found at other threads.

This thread is about democracy and freedom versus dictatorship and fascism.

You and I could always step outside to discuss either or both concerns.

[ginjag]

Seems easy enough, Suthep has only to escalate violence via his thugish guards against the red protest group, and presto, the coup he has always been dreaming about, how convinient

Killing of innocent children and other innocents hasn't brought them out yet so please explain your comment.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Moonie, I thought you were a coup supporter, you make it sound like it's Just a Suthep idea.

This is a ploy by Thaksin to create this atmosphere --he wants a coup to shout to the world coups are immoral. Without his red army there would be no coup.

Thaksin cannot get his way, that being a pardon and return to dictate/control, this has been successfully resisted. sorry the dung on your cornflakes thought you knew the score. So recap Thaksin is pressing for a coup, using the red army to fire for him as the coward always does. they will suffer as last time and if Thaksin loves his people why make them fight for him and suffer---there is only one loser Thailand, and you are condoning a so called dictator.

[zydeco]

i think a coup may happen but only if a lot of reds turn up in bkk i dont know how many were at there rally yesterday...anyone..

Maybe 10,000.

Zydeco, have you heard a number or are you just tossing it out? I have no clue.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

No, I haven't heard any official number. I'm only guestimating. According to security at the last rally on the road a month ago (as reported in the BP on the morning after) there were 35,000 attending. That crowds was larger than this one. Additionally, the Reds have left open one of the service lanes on the left side of the road, apparently (not sure, to be honest--but Friday I was able to get through this lane and last time it was closed off two days before). With one lane kept open for traffic that makes the crowd even smaller. At any rate, they promised 1 million. To me, it looks like they underachieved by 99 percent.

[ginjag]

still waiting for those ptp achievements anything yet surely google or wickileaks could help you..no nothing ok.. must have blocked my posts for fear of the blinding truth..

Your topic has been presented in and can continue to be found at other threads.

This thread is about democracy and freedom versus dictatorship and fascism.

You and I could always step outside to discuss either or both concerns.

You publicus type the list of Mega achievements by the PTP. To put you straight on this one final time --PTP won a democratic vote to govern.

They did NOT stick to the law and the promise to govern cleanly-on oath.

This thread is about A dictatorship run by Thaksin---and the democratic right to have them ousted because of their undemocratic governing.

So your second line is spot on.

Suthep had nothing to do with this governments governing problems.

Had they governed well there would be no Suthep and little from the opposition.

[winstonc]

still waiting for those ptp achievements anything yet surely google or wickileaks could help you..no nothing ok.. must have blocked my posts for fear of the blinding truth..

Your topic has been presented in and can continue to be found at other threads.

This thread is about democracy and freedom versus dictatorship and fascism.

You and I could always step outside to discuss either or both concerns.

yes please..i have to ask you here because you always fail to look at these other threads..

Edited May 11, 2014 by winstonc

[rreddin]

The military command relies on Special Operations forces to execute its coups - the military high command knows the mass of the conscripted regular army originates from a general population whose roots are opposite those of the Bangkok ammart and elites. Neither do most military commanders originate in the ammart or elites. Career military officers join the elites on their way up the ranks. Some however retain their original identity.

They rely on small groups of Special Operations forces because that is all that's needed to get the job done; how many people are needed to surround a building or three?

It should be noted that the watermelon soldiers had no problems chasing the Red Shirts out of Bangkok back in 2010.

A coup involves thorough and broad strategic planning and execution in every respect and it involves a great deal of tactical detail, sound judgement, force units coup leaders can rely on, perfect timing and, chief among all vital factors surprise (which is why generals are always denying on their mother's soul their imminent coups). The 2006 coup ticked just about every box.

So even in your simplicity you are accurate to say military commanders don't need the entirety of the armed forces, or even much of it, to design, plan, execute, a military mutiny. The military's select Special Operations forces do indeed fill the bill and moreover are specially trained for coup actions - uninitiated and untrained soldiers stumbling their way through a coup just doesn't cut it. And Thai military commanders have the do's and don'ts of the many prior coups to learn from besides.

Keyboard militarists around here need to recall April 10, 2010 when the reds routed the attacking army Special Forces in the same way Chief Sitting Bull and his 5000 warriors routed Col Custer and his two cohorts of expert troops at the Little Big Horn (230 army cavalry). The reds however had the assistance of expert sharpshooters and highly trained warriors who shared a dislike of other Special Forces troops.

That was the night the late colonel gathered all his senior commanders in a nice tight circle in the middle of the intersection where they were taken out by a barrage of grenades. Those army Special Forces.

Gen Prayuth at any rate is deliberately removing his most important card, surprise, from his strategy when he continually asserts "as a last resort." So it's not a question of will they. It's a question of when, under what specific circumstances and conditions. The general long ago removed surprise from his strategy because his principal prerequisite under present conditions and trends is the acceptance of the Thai people - their resigned acceptance of the necessity of a coup to restore peace and order.

As the last resort.

The keyboard militarists should however be careful what they wish for because Gen Prayuth has made clear that if he must act he'll put both sides under lock and key.

The head of the armed forces also knows the resigned acceptance of the necessity of a coup to restore peace and order will only be by a part of the population. He also knows from experience that it does not take many people to tie up tens of thousands of troops - and he might have the nightmare of opposing groups doing it at the same time.

[Publicus]

still didnt give him an answer on ptp achievements in 3 years...there are none..thats all you have to say...succumb to his request its easy..

Ahem, the thread topic is:

Prayuth ready to act only as last resort

Started by Lite Beer, Today, 07:55

You've had since 07:55 to deal with that, so deal with it now finally once and for all

.

[Publicus]

A coup involves thorough and broad strategic planning and execution in every respect and it involves a great deal of tactical detail, sound judgement, force units coup leaders can rely on, perfect timing and, chief among all vital factors surprise (which is why generals are always denying on their mother's soul their imminent coups). The 2006 coup ticked just about every box.

So even in your simplicity you are accurate to say military commanders don't need the entirety of the armed forces, or even much of it, to design, plan, execute, a military mutiny. The military's select Special Operations forces do indeed fill the bill and moreover are specially trained for coup actions - uninitiated and untrained soldiers stumbling their way through a coup just doesn't cut it. And Thai military commanders have the do's and don'ts of the many prior coups to learn from besides.

Keyboard militarists around here need to recall April 10, 2010 when the reds routed the attacking army Special Forces in the same way Chief Sitting Bull and his 5000 warriors routed Col Custer and his two cohorts of expert troops at the Little Big Horn (230 army cavalry). The reds however had the assistance of expert sharpshooters and highly trained warriors who shared a dislike of other Special Forces troops.

That was the night the late colonel gathered all his senior commanders in a nice tight circle in the middle of the intersection where they were taken out by a barrage of grenades. Those army Special Forces.

Gen Prayuth at any rate is deliberately removing his most important card, surprise, from his strategy when he continually asserts "as a last resort." So it's not a question of will they. It's a question of when, under what specific circumstances and conditions. The general long ago removed surprise from his strategy because his principal prerequisite under present conditions and trends is the acceptance of the Thai people - their resigned acceptance of a coup.\.

As the last resort.

The keyboard militarists should however be careful what they wish for because Gen Prayuth has made clear that if he must act he'll put both sides under lock and key.

The reds routed the attacking army? The reds however had the assistance of expert sharpshooters and highly trained warriors who shared a dislike of other Special Forces troops?

Are you sure? For many years now I've been told that

a. the reds were peaceful protesters

b. there are no MiB

c. the unarmed reds overwon the 'forces of evil'

d. only the army killed

Anyway the army might have a 'coup plan' in the drawer, the version from 2006. Maybe Gen Sonthi can provide details?

ADD: added publicus last minute last sentence.

comment: reforms only work when ALL sides have to abide.

Are you sure? For many years now I've been told that

Well no shucks then rubl cause you've been listening to the wrong people, people who wear a certain color - I've been advising you of that for years. You know you need to stop listening to the reds because you always get so confused by their legitimate issues.

"Reforms" are legitimate and can be accepted by all when all participate fully in writing and approving any suggested "reforms."

Any "reforms" written only by an exclusive closed elite group of autocrats, oligarchs, aristocrats, ammart and imposed on the society as a whole are doomed to fail. Your arguments are doomed to fail because you and the others consider only the second half of any reform equation, i.e. "ALL sides have to abide." The front half of that equation is that all sides have to participate inclusively, substantively, significantly in producing "reforms" and to do so in the spirit of a commonality of purpose and motive.

Your "reforms" are half baked and thus guaranteed to fail because you focus on the apply and obey half while you ignore and exclude the input and participation half.

rubl rubl rubl you need to think big and in wholistic terms rather than in only one limited and half arsed dimension.

[ginjag]

The military command relies on Special Operations forces to execute its coups - the military high command knows the mass of the conscripted regular army originates from a general population whose roots are opposite those of the Bangkok ammart and elites. Neither do most military commanders originate in the ammart or elites. Career military officers join the elites on their way up the ranks. Some however retain their original identity.

They rely on small groups of Special Operations forces because that is all that's needed to get the job done; how many people are needed to surround a building or three?

It should be noted that the watermelon soldiers had no problems chasing the Red Shirts out of Bangkok back in 2010.

A coup involves thorough and broad strategic planning and execution in every respect and it involves a great deal of tactical detail, sound judgement, force units coup leaders can rely on, perfect timing and, chief among all vital factors surprise (which is why generals are always denying on their mother's soul their imminent coups). The 2006 coup ticked just about every box.

So even in your simplicity you are accurate to say military commanders don't need the entirety of the armed forces, or even much of it, to design, plan, execute, a military mutiny. The military's select Special Operations forces do indeed fill the bill and moreover are specially trained for coup actions - uninitiated and untrained soldiers stumbling their way through a coup just doesn't cut it. And Thai military commanders have the do's and don'ts of the many prior coups to learn from besides.

Keyboard militarists around here need to recall April 10, 2010 when the reds routed the attacking army Special Forces in the same way Chief Sitting Bull and his 5000 warriors routed Col Custer and his two cohorts of expert troops at the Little Big Horn (230 army cavalry). The reds however had the assistance of expert sharpshooters and highly trained warriors who shared a dislike of other Special Forces troops.

That was the night the late colonel gathered all his senior commanders in a nice tight circle in the middle of the intersection where they were taken out by a barrage of grenades. Those army Special Forces.

Gen Prayuth at any rate is deliberately removing his most important card, surprise, from his strategy when he continually asserts "as a last resort." So it's not a question of will they. It's a question of when, under what specific circumstances and conditions. The general long ago removed surprise from his strategy because his principal prerequisite under present conditions and trends is the acceptance of the Thai people - their resigned acceptance of the necessity of a coup to restore peace and order.

As the last resort.

The keyboard militarists should however be careful what they wish for because Gen Prayuth has made clear that if he must act he'll put both sides under lock and key.

Your last sentence, What effect would that have on posters ??? most favour the army knowing they can rely on them in THIS situ == not the Thaksin police.

I will also add if they lock up both sides I will not shed a drop of Yingluck eye moisture. GOOD IDEA then maybe we can have a clean fresh start.

[Rimbuman]

Seems easy enough, Suthep has only to escalate violence via his thugish guards against the red protest group, and presto, the coup he has always been dreaming about, how convinient

Another fantasy post. Not once in 6 months has the PDRC attacked the Reds. What makes you think they will begin now? If anything the REDS will attack the PDRC.

Suthep has done a pretty good job minimizing violence from his supporters. Even though his rallies and supporters have been attacked almost daily. Closr your eyes and go back to sleep so you can dream up more BS to post

Sent from my GT-S5310 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

So who was the pop corn bag shooter shooting at, who shot the Red leader in Udon Thani and whose guards routinely beat up anyone who they think may have red sympathies?

Who killed children and and publicly cheered and celebrated on a red stage that they killed those children?

[rubl]

The reds routed the attacking army? The reds however had the assistance of expert sharpshooters and highly trained warriors who shared a dislike of other Special Forces troops?

Are you sure? For many years now I've been told that

a. the reds were peaceful protesters

b. there are no MiB

c. the unarmed reds overwon the 'forces of evil'

d. only the army killed

Anyway the army might have a 'coup plan' in the drawer, the version from 2006. Maybe Gen Sonthi can provide details?

ADD: added publicus last minute last sentence.

comment: reforms only work when ALL sides have to abide.

Are you sure? For many years now I've been told that

Well no shucks then rubl cause you've been listening to the wrong people, people who wear a certain color - I've been advising you of that for years. You know you need to stop listening to the reds because you always get so confused by their legitimate issues.

"Reforms" are legitimate and can be accepted by all when all participate fully in writing and approving any suggested "reforms."

Any "reforms" written only by an exclusive closed elite group of autocrats, oligarchs, aristocrats, ammart and imposed on the society as a whole are doomed to fail. Your arguments are doomed to fail because you and the others consider only the second half of any reform equation, i.e. "ALL sides have to abide." The front half of that equation is that all sides have to participate inclusively, substantively, significantly in producing "reforms" and to do so in the spirit of a commonality of purpose and motive.

Your "reforms" are half baked and thus guaranteed to fail because you focus on the apply and obey half while you ignore and exclude the input and participation half.

rubl rubl rubl you need to think big and in wholistic terms rather than in only one limited and half arsed dimension.

MY reforms?

Anyway as only the PDRC seems to have started on a base framework for reforms and is waiting for a broader participation by other groups and eventually even larger groups till we get a form which may even be put up in a referendum. With entrenched positions I fear a reform will need to be forced.

Now you right in that 'all sides must abide' should be preceded by 'all sides should participate in formulating reforms. Till now the PDRC seems to be the only organisation willing to get started though.

BTW a somewhat less condescending tone would be appreciated.

[Publicus]

still waiting for those ptp achievements anything yet surely google or wickileaks could help you..no nothing ok.. must have blocked my posts for fear of the blinding truth..

Your topic has been presented in and can continue to be found at other threads.

This thread is about democracy and freedom versus dictatorship and fascism.

You and I could always step outside to discuss either or both concerns.

yes please..i have to ask you here because you always fail to look at these other threads..

I know you're not stalking me. I'm not paranoid and you anyway are not the type.

You don't like the government's policies so let's have an election with reform platforms included. I thought I'd long ago made clear I'm not in this to necessarily defend the government's policies, personnel, priorities. If you think otherwise you'd be wandering about in a desert of shifting sands. My discrete concern is the nature of the fight.

This thread addresses my issues, which are democracy and freedom versus dictatorship and fascism.

Join the discussion and arguments at the thread or move on

.

Edited May 11, 2014 by Publicus

[Old Man River]

i think a coup may happen but only if a lot of reds turn up in bkk i dont know how many were at there rally yesterday...anyone..

Maybe 10,000.

Zydeco, have you heard a number or are you just tossing it out? I have no clue.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

No, I haven't heard any official number. I'm only guestimating. According to security at the last rally on the road a month ago (as reported in the BP on the morning after) there were 35,000 attending. That crowds was larger than this one. Additionally, the Reds have left open one of the service lanes on the left side of the road, apparently (not sure, to be honest--but Friday I was able to get through this lane and last time it was closed off two days before). With one lane kept open for traffic that makes the crowd even smaller. At any rate, they promised 1 million. To me, it looks like they underachieved by 99 percent.

It was reported that earlier in the day, yesterday, Spring News was using photos and communicating by phone. People gather at night when it is cooler, but I have yet to hear a number. I think both Suthep and Jatuporn are probably disappointed at their numbers this week. Nobody wants a civil war.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[rabas]

Gabruce, you are correct as usual. I didn't want to respond directly to an insult wrapped in a question.

I refer to Thaksin because that is what Sondhi himself said after the incident. He said he knew who had planned it and referred to him as the big man overseas, a commonly used reference reserved for Thaksin. Sondhi is also on record for profusely forgiving him, which I interpret to mean he is scared out of his wits.

There is also a conspiracy theory that emerged later, which suggests the army might have been involved. Having read what I could on that, I think it is likely to be just a smoke screen. But like you point out, who really knows exactly what goes on. We can only go on the pieces of information that drift out, mixed with a bit of logic.

I always enjoy your highly objective posts, but ran out of likes.

They are like a breath of fresh air in a wind tunnel.

Of course, many people at the time initially thought it was Thaksin, because at first glance that seemed the most logical explanation. But Sondhi was already criticizing the army and had begun his fall out with the Democrats, whereas why should Thaksin particularly have cared about him at that point? And why do you think Sondhi should have been any more afraid of Thaksin then, than say he was in 2005? Thaksin knowing Sondhi is a loose cannon and is more likely to cause trouble for the Democrats... well, Thaksin I'm sure, would've surely liked Sondhi out of the way in 06 and in late 08, but there's no particularly reason he'd want to have him hit in early 09. Quite the opposite. Sondhi's got a big mouth, and you only have to look at his relevations about the 06 coup for proof of that.

I don't know what Sondhi said at first, but I know what he said after. From what I've read and heard, the hit was either Prawit (incidentally, one of the main backers of the PDRC and possibly the most powerful man in Thailand right now) or Anupong, together with Viraya. Don't forget, the hit took place during the SOE and the assassins had to drive through army lines to get away. Basically, easier for army backed figures to get to him at that point than at any other time, and much more difficult for Thaksin associated hitmen... anyway, I should apologize for my overly harsh previous response to your initial post. I thought you had just decided to get in points scoring remark about Thaksin without bothering to look into the details - and there are a lot of posts like that. Now I can see you have looked at it, and do believe it was Thaksin. I'm sure it wasn't (not because I believe Thaksin is incapable - I'm pretty near convinced that Thaksin had Ekkayuth whacked for instance) but because I've looked at the details and none of the evidence points towards Thaksin. Either way, I generally try to avoid one or two line put down responses so I apologize for that.

Well, my fault too. Actually I made a 3rd post right after to give my understands, right or wrong, but the post didn't post! I only realized something was wrong when gabruce commented, knowing he never errs. Of course, I spend some time scrounging for old references and couldn't find the original where Sondhi referred to the big man overseas, it had been on the nationmultimedia site. Even found some of US Ambassador John's leaked cables from that time. What was clear from that refresher is the truth has been well Thaified under layers innuendo and well designed Thai speak, as are so many things. At least I learned something today.

[Greg Nixon]

Seems easy enough, Suthep has only to escalate violence via his thugish guards against the red protest group, and presto, the coup he has always been dreaming about, how convinient

PDRC is not meeting in Mukdahan but the Red Shirts are. As my daughter said there are only 30 redshirts. Perhaps Thaksin has stopped paying his thugs and perhaps he really has directed Yingluck to abandon ship. It is still possible she will end up in jail.

Although Ido not trust the PDRC they have not committed blatant violent acts such as burning down government buildings. That is a violent act and everyone knows what I am talking about.

Perhaps the PDR are the middle ground. No one is happy with a compromise but that is what adults do. Children insist on getting their own way.

[Greg Nixon]

The reluctance of the army to participate in a coup spurred on by politicians could mean that the army is terribly divided over this issue and that the involvement of one segment of the armed forces may result in civil war. The armed forces continues to insist on a negotiated settlement between all parties - compromise.

[ginjag]

still waiting for those ptp achievements anything yet surely google or wickileaks could help you..no nothing ok.. must have blocked my posts for fear of the blinding truth..

Your topic has been presented in and can continue to be found at other threads.

This thread is about democracy and freedom versus dictatorship and fascism.

You and I could always step outside to discuss either or both concerns.

yes please..i have to ask you here because you always fail to look at these other threads..

I know you're not stalking me. I'm not paranoid and you anyway are not the type.

You don't like the government's policies so let's have an election with reform platforms included. I thought I'd long ago made clear I'm not in this to necessarily defend the government's policies, personnel, priorities. If you think otherwise you'd be wandering about in a desert of shifting sands. My discrete concern is the nature of the fight.

This thread addresses my issues, which are democracy and freedom versus dictatorship and fascism.

Join the discussion and arguments at the thread or move on

.

Do not BS the guy, When someone bogs you down about bad governing you fade away.

I answered you and turned your thread issues around to the truth.

This is, as you put it the former democracy and freedom stands for ousting Thaksin/ family foremost. who are the dictators.

The charges ongoing/pending you have to look at, including those of Thaksin awaiting his overdue return. The fascism is a story usually told by your clan of pro gov posters.

Sorry mods this is not a post on topic it is an answer to a post that says an undemocratic government is democratic---Silly really.

Hopefully the reds do not start their =I want my way" or else. if they do not, good we just press for much needed reforms, everything in order---elections--with a bit of luck a new police force to ensure elections are fair under the new reform laws.

Edited May 11, 2014 by ginjag

[Publicus]

The reds routed the attacking army? The reds however had the assistance of expert sharpshooters and highly trained warriors who shared a dislike of other Special Forces troops?

Are you sure? For many years now I've been told that

a. the reds were peaceful protesters

b. there are no MiB

c. the unarmed reds overwon the 'forces of evil'

d. only the army killed

Anyway the army might have a 'coup plan' in the drawer, the version from 2006. Maybe Gen Sonthi can provide details?

ADD: added publicus last minute last sentence.

comment: reforms only work when ALL sides have to abide.

Are you sure? For many years now I've been told that

Well no shucks then rubl cause you've been listening to the wrong people, people who wear a certain color - I've been advising you of that for years. You know you need to stop listening to the reds because you always get so confused by their legitimate issues.

"Reforms" are legitimate and can be accepted by all when all participate fully in writing and approving any suggested "reforms."

Any "reforms" written only by an exclusive closed elite group of autocrats, oligarchs, aristocrats, ammart and imposed on the society as a whole are doomed to fail. Your arguments are doomed to fail because you and the others consider only the second half of any reform equation, i.e. "ALL sides have to abide." The front half of that equation is that all sides have to participate inclusively, substantively, significantly in producing "reforms" and to do so in the spirit of a commonality of purpose and motive.

Your "reforms" are half baked and thus guaranteed to fail because you focus on the apply and obey half while you ignore and exclude the input and participation half.

rubl rubl rubl you need to think big and in wholistic terms rather than in only one limited and half arsed dimension.

MY reforms?

Anyway as only the PDRC seems to have started on a base framework for reforms and is waiting for a broader participation by other groups and eventually even larger groups till we get a form which may even be put up in a referendum. With entrenched positions I fear a reform will need to be forced.

Now you right in that 'all sides must abide' should be preceded by 'all sides should participate in formulating reforms. Till now the PDRC seems to be the only organisation willing to get started though.

BTW a somewhat less condescending tone would be appreciated.

"With entrenched positions I fear a reform will need to be forced."

It's been true for thousands of years we catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. Setting out to "seize power" is the vinegar approach by the ship load and I like vinegar only on my French fries (an England tradition still alive and well where I come from except for on "chips").

"BTW a somewhat less condescending tone would be appreciated."

Thank you for raising the point. The many on the other side would need to consider ceasing their condescendingly contemptuous, snide, scolding approach to posting that occurs all day every day. Nobody ever got anywhere that way.

Cheers.

[Greg Nixon]

i think a coup may happen but only if a lot of reds turn up in bkk i dont know how many were at there rally yesterday...anyone..

Millions

In Mukdahan only 30 red shirts showed up yesterday and today the number of chairs were greatly reduced. Is Thaksin still paying the red shirts as he paid voters ? I have witnessed that. They say Thaksins wealth has been greatly diminished. His return to Thailand would be marked by violence and he has finally realised that. The Shinawatras are abandoning the sinking ship.The big question is will Yingluck end up in jail for corruption and lying about being directed by her brother ? The Thai people are greatly upset at that big lie. No one likes to be deceived.

[Piichai]

The reluctance of the army to participate in a coup spurred on by politicians could mean that the army is terribly divided over this issue and that the involvement of one segment of the armed forces may result in civil war. The armed forces continues to insist on a negotiated settlement between all parties - compromise.

I think the odds are low that the military is terribly divided.

A military coup has always been the easy way out.

Maybe they realize the system is broken and want the politicians to work things out.

Abhisit discussed his reform framework with the military. Maybe the military believes it has some merit.

[monkeycountry]

Seems easy enough, Suthep has only to escalate violence via his thugish guards against the red protest group, and presto, the coup he has always been dreaming about, how convinient

Having said that, you must be asking yourself, why isn't he doing as you suggest?

Most attacks seem to come from the red shirt side, which is quite ironic, as the red side does not want a coup.

[Publicus]

The military command relies on Special Operations forces to execute its coups - the military high command knows the mass of the conscripted regular army originates from a general population whose roots are opposite those of the Bangkok ammart and elites. Neither do most military commanders originate in the ammart or elites. Career military officers join the elites on their way up the ranks. Some however retain their original identity.

They rely on small groups of Special Operations forces because that is all that's needed to get the job done; how many people are needed to surround a building or three?

It should be noted that the watermelon soldiers had no problems chasing the Red Shirts out of Bangkok back in 2010.

A coup involves thorough and broad strategic planning and execution in every respect and it involves a great deal of tactical detail, sound judgement, force units coup leaders can rely on, perfect timing and, chief among all vital factors surprise (which is why generals are always denying on their mother's soul their imminent coups). The 2006 coup ticked just about every box.

So even in your simplicity you are accurate to say military commanders don't need the entirety of the armed forces, or even much of it, to design, plan, execute, a military mutiny. The military's select Special Operations forces do indeed fill the bill and moreover are specially trained for coup actions - uninitiated and untrained soldiers stumbling their way through a coup just doesn't cut it. And Thai military commanders have the do's and don'ts of the many prior coups to learn from besides.

Keyboard militarists around here need to recall April 10, 2010 when the reds routed the attacking army Special Forces in the same way Chief Sitting Bull and his 5000 warriors routed Col Custer and his two cohorts of expert troops at the Little Big Horn (230 army cavalry). The reds however had the assistance of expert sharpshooters and highly trained warriors who shared a dislike of other Special Forces troops.

That was the night the late colonel gathered all his senior commanders in a nice tight circle in the middle of the intersection where they were taken out by a barrage of grenades. Those army Special Forces.

Gen Prayuth at any rate is deliberately removing his most important card, surprise, from his strategy when he continually asserts "as a last resort." So it's not a question of will they. It's a question of when, under what specific circumstances and conditions. The general long ago removed surprise from his strategy because his principal prerequisite under present conditions and trends is the acceptance of the Thai people - their resigned acceptance of the necessity of a coup to restore peace and order.

As the last resort.

The keyboard militarists should however be careful what they wish for because Gen Prayuth has made clear that if he must act he'll put both sides under lock and key.

The head of the armed forces also knows the resigned acceptance of the necessity of a coup to restore peace and order will only be by a part of the population. He also knows from experience that it does not take many people to tie up tens of thousands of troops - and he might have the nightmare of opposing groups doing it at the same time.

It's absolutely true Gen Prayuth recognizes the 2006 coup was the most divisive event in Thai history. It turned the North against the military, the northern arc of Thailand from Myanmar and Laos to Cambodia. The 2010 targeted and also indiscriminate killing of Thais aggravated and intensified the hostility of people in the North and additionally turned the stomachs of a significant number of Thais in all parts of the country, Thais who are neither red nor yellow in particular, to of course include in Bangkok.

Consequently. the military high command does not want a repeat of 2006 because that was awful enough for them and for their patrons. It certainly does not want to create or contribute to a 2010 circumstance multiplied or magnified now or in the immediate future by a factor of anywhere from perhaps 5 to 7 or 8 Further, they certainly don't want smaller scale but widespread hit and run or disruptive actions occurring everywhere and anywhere because those would be an Iraq whack a mole for the armed forces.

The reds keep talking big time because they don't want to play into Suthep's hands, which also would mean putting their nuts into the hands of the PDRC. The reds and the PDRC know red-PDRC clashes would be the factor to force Prayuth's hand. The intensity and extent of Red-PDRC clashes would be determining to Prayuth, and there's no question Prayuth is the guy who'd call the shots - not Suthep, not the PDRC, not the ammart. Prayuth continues to follow one single person and absolutely would yield to only one single person and we know it ain't Thaksin.

Both Prayuth and the one single person know the negative state of mind of the Thai people concerning the army and each knows military action must have widespread and understandable justification to the population. I'd bet the ranch however that neither of the two knows exactly yet what that might mean or require, when, where, specifically why, or how.

So the reds have stayed home because they absolutely will not give Suthep and the PDRC what that gang so desperately need and are working so hard to provoke. The reds will continue to stay out of Bangkok to keep on barking menacingly from a distance unless the government in one way or another suddenly finds itself portfolio in hand standing out on the street.

Fracturing the government by means of judicial coup while Suthep forces the remainder of the government out onto the street is the sudden bum's rush strategy of the ammart to reverse their failing fortunes and thereby to win the day. The ammart have always needed a quick and decisive victory but their campaign has floundered and become much much too dragged out. So the PDRC types here need to sober up to realize and recognize the Red's bark is only the hint of their awful bite.

[FangFerang]

Seems easy enough, Suthep has only to escalate violence via his thugish guards against the red protest group, and presto, the coup he has always been dreaming about, how convinient

Another fantasy post. Not once in 6 months has the PDRC attacked the Reds. What makes you think they will begin now? If anything the REDS will attack the PDRC.

Suthep has done a pretty good job minimizing violence from his supporters. Even though his rallies and supporters have been attacked almost daily. Closr your eyes and go back to sleep so you can dream up more BS to post

Sent from my GT-S5310 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

"Not once in 6 months has the PDRC attacked the Reds" What happened to the burnt bus and dead kids inside? What happened to the the guy that was kidnapped, deprived of water and food and then thrown in a river?

You, sir, are a liar.

[rubl]

... ...

So the reds have stayed home because they absolutely will not give Suthep and the PDRC what that gang so desperately need and are working so hard to provoke. The reds will continue to stay out of Bangkok to keep on barking menacingly from a distance unless the government in one way or another suddenly finds itself portfolio in hand standing out on the street.

Fracturing the government by means of judicial coup while Suthep forces the remainder of the government out onto the street is the sudden bum's rush strategy of the ammart to reverse their failing fortunes and thereby to win the day. The ammart have always needed a quick and decisive victory but their campaign has floundered and become much much too dragged out. So the PDRC types here need to sober up to realize and recognize the Red's bark is only the hint of their awful bite.

I knew there was a reason why k, Jatuporn only got about a handful red-shirts to help him protect the government. K, Nattawut may be really disappointed when on the 14th numbers will be counted, recounted and presented.

AS for the bark and bite, well the bark is shoutcasted frequently enough and the bite seems those cowardly nightly attack on anti-government protesters.Allegedly that is.

[Publicus]

Your topic has been presented in and can continue to be found at other threads.

This thread is about democracy and freedom versus dictatorship and fascism.

You and I could always step outside to discuss either or both concerns.

yes please..i have to ask you here because you always fail to look at these other threads..

I know you're not stalking me. I'm not paranoid and you anyway are not the type.

You don't like the government's policies so let's have an election with reform platforms included. I thought I'd long ago made clear I'm not in this to necessarily defend the government's policies, personnel, priorities. If you think otherwise you'd be wandering about in a desert of shifting sands. My discrete concern is the nature of the fight.

This thread addresses my issues, which are democracy and freedom versus dictatorship and fascism.

Join the discussion and arguments at the thread or move on

.

Do not BS the guy, When someone bogs you down about bad governing you fade away.

I answered you and turned your thread issues around to the truth.

This is, as you put it the former democracy and freedom stands for ousting Thaksin/ family foremost. who are the dictators.

The charges ongoing/pending you have to look at, including those of Thaksin awaiting his overdue return. The fascism is a story usually told by your clan of pro gov posters.

Sorry mods this is not a post on topic it is an answer to a post that says an undemocratic government is democratic---Silly really.

Hopefully the reds do not start their =I want my way" or else. if they do not, good we just press for much needed reforms, everything in order---elections--with a bit of luck a new police force to ensure elections are fair under the new reform laws.

You are off topic at this thread but you don't care because you guys are hell bent to pursue your own selfish political agenda for your own nefarious socio-economic purposes and goals.

My concern is not to defend specific policies, programs, personnel or the priorities of a given government.

My discrete concern is the nature of the fight. The nature of the fight pits democracy and freedom against dictatorship and fascism.

This thread addresses the exact nature of my discrete concern.

Your concern is purely ideological and takes us militantly in the wrong direction, i.e., military coups, judicial coups, overthrowing the democratically elected government to install Suthep and his fascist "People's Council" and his fascist National Assembly. You support the fascist PDRC which the vast majority of Thais reject in the absolute.

Argue on the topic and terms of the thread or be gone. You haven't any limits or bounds so it's time to be taken to task for the fact.

[Publicus]

Prayuth ready to act only as last resort..........

Bolllox he aint going to do anything as he only has a few weeks until he retires and does not want to have a troubled retirement, it will be the guy who replaces him that will get tough and then it will be full on

Prayuth has hinted in the past that he didn't want to make waves before his retirement which would explain why he's opted for the 'Swiss position' for so long. But what he says is true..... if there are still enough Thais on both sides who can be arsed to get involved any more and trouble does kick off then the military is the only option to maintain law and order.

The military, maintain law and order?!

Military justice is to justice as military music is to music.

The 2007 constitution drafting assembly appointed by the generals put on their tin foil hats to give Thailand the crisis emergency it presently has, which is a disaster looking to become a catastrophe.

You like the Thai logic, reasoning, principles of law and ethics that two wrongs make a right and that five wrongs make it even more right.

People advocating yet another military mutiny seem not to notice the looks they get in those tin foil hats they wear.

[londonthai]

there is a new development.

from today's bangkok post article "Top brass reject section 7 step: Source":

"They said the option was not appropriate as it could disturb His Majesty, who, they said, is the King for all Thais, according to the source.

Supreme Commander Gen Tanasak Patimaprakorn, army chief Gen Prayuth Chan-ocha, navy leader Adm Narong Pipattanasai and air force commander ACM Prajin Juntong and permanent secretary for defence Gen Nipat Thonglek were involved in the talks as they gathered for an audience granted by His Royal Highness Crown Prince Maha Vajiralongkorn at Amporn Garden for newly promoted generals."

[doctorproc156]

It's sad to see how quick the courts were to pass judgement on the PTP leaders but still nowhere to be seen in prosecuting the people responsible for the 1971, 1992 and 2010 massacres.