work permit denied

[trav111]

Hi all,

have been informed by the school today that my application for a work permit has been denied, because I am not a qualified teacher, enough though it's a private primary school and I'm from England.

The school have asked me if I can still come to work for them, which would be illegal, I am now wondering is there no route for them to appeal the decision or do we have any grounds to appeal the decision.

Also if I was to work illegally and was caught doing so what would be the consequences

[aidenai]

have been informed by the school today that my application for a work permit has been denied, because I am not a qualified teacher, enough though it's a private primary school and I'm from England.

Not qualified?

• Do you hold a university degree?
• Did you submit a TCT provisional teaching permit?
• Did you provide a medical certificate showing that you are not insane or mentally sick, suffer from Leprosy, Tuberculosis, Drug Addiction, Alcoholism, Elephantitus and Tertiary Syphilis?

[schondie]

It all depends on your circumstances.

Do you have a degree and or TEFL?

If yes, have you worked at more than two schools already? Meaning that you've had two teaching licence waivers already. You can't have a third waiver unless you take a really useless course as a B.Ed from a non accredited university in Thailand. Either way, lose / lose situation.

If that's the case you've got to persuade the school to change your job title from "teacher" to something like "curriculum consultant" in order to avoid the teaching licence requirements but enough to obtain a work permit.

I'm able to get a work permit but I'm throwing in the towel and going back to England for a few months to decide where to go next. Although I've been teaching here for around ten years on and off I've just had enough of these 5h1tty regulations.

I had a few offers from reputable companies in and around London for £25+ an hour (a couple are offering cash in hand). I'm no hotshot TEFL teacher but there's a world of opportunities out there. I'll miss the weather, food and people for the most part but I won't miss the 5h1tty working conditions and super low wages offered here although the NES situation is looking pretty bleak.

I always persuaded myself that the quality of life was more important than the money. I was fooling myself and allowing schools to take advantage of my carefree attitude. Move on and wait for this country to catch on to their mistakes before returning here. It may be a long wait but but Malaysia and Burma are offering pretty decent packages compared to here.

[Utley]

This could be the school's way of telling you to go away rather than an immigration decision. Just saying.......how many visible tattoos do you have; are you clean cut; do you own a pair of dress slacks, shoes, a tie and a dress shirt?

[paul zodiac]

Trav 111,

I suspect the school does not want you for reasons only known to them! I know many foreigners many English that work in rural schools and the school owners have gone to great lengths to assist in work permits for them.

DO NOT WORK WITHOUT A WORK PERMIT! once found out you WILL be deported.

Many schools are happy to have a native speaking English teacher helping their students to learn English, however, a lot do not hold any Degree Qualifications.

Therefore, many schools recognise this and use their influence at the Ministry of Labour to obtain work permits not for Teacher but assisting in the daily coordination for the education of Thai students.

Hope this helps and good luck!

[SDM0712]

You could do one of these accelerated TEFL courses in only a few weeks, pass the relatively simple exam and voila you are qualified. The course will cost around 50,000.

SDM

[AndyGG]

The consequences of working illegally or rather working without a work permit can vary to blind eye tactics (for a period anyway) to being thrown out the country with no return, a hefty fine or even jail. In some cases all three. How important is your piece of mind?

[LeeBonner]

I was just at Krusapa on Monday to enrol for the Thai Culture Course. If you have already taught at two schools and already finished the second year or tried to move on to a third school, this is what I learned:

• You can still get a work permit if
  • you have a non-B and
  • are enrolled in a Master's degree program at a university.

This will allow you to work for an extra two years, at only one school, without a teaching license. Hopefully you would have finished your master's the second year and then you will be eligible to take the exam.

• Make sure your degree is a M. Ed. If your degree is a M.A. teaching TEFL then
  • you can still take the Thai Culture Course if you haven't already
  • you will not be eligible to sit for the exam for the Thai teaching license
  • But you will still be able to teach legally with work permit for two years. After that, who knows how the rules may change.

That is what I was told. Hopefully others can verify this.

[Suradit69]

Didn't know the main qualification to be teacher is " ....and I'm from England."

This is the second one recently to suggest that alone should put him at the front of the queue. The other one felt qualified to teach English on that basis while he pondered the difficulties of making "boarder" runs.

[donmuang37]

This could be a simple case of the old "bait and switch" sales scam. Many schools in Thailand offer a work permit and Non-B visa when, in fact, they have no intention of providing them. They string the teacher along until he/she finally wakes up and smells the coffee and moves on. Some don't even pay the teacher, sweetly explaining that the bank's computer has a problem or whatever until the teacher quits. Then, of course, they never pay back wages, claiming it is forfeited because the teacher broke their contract. I know many teachers who have endured the above circumstances.

I also know of cases of well connected schools obtaining work permits and visas for teachers without bachelor's degrees and/or TEFL/TESOL certificates.

If you don't have a degree and a TEFL/TESOL certificate then you should recognize that your situation is not really secure anywhere in Thailand. Good luck.

[Fullstop]

This could be the school's way of telling you to go away rather than an immigration decision. Just saying.......how many visible tattoos do you have; are you clean cut; do you own a pair of dress slacks, shoes, a tie and a dress shirt?

The school have asked me if I can still come to work for them

[nongsangcity]

I have been asked to teach at my local school and I have told them I wont start without work permit, licence etc...I have a non o visa being married to a thai but immigration told me I must have a B visa only to be able to work..can you work legally on a non o visa ???...I would love to know , some people say yes others say no...I don't have a degree but I have a TEFL certificate ....I could of started work yesterday but iam hanging fire to see if the school will sort out any thing for me.......ps there was also a lady from Camaroon who was having an interview for the 2nd job at the school and when I asked her about her visa status...she showed me her passport, her tourist visa ran out on sept 13 th last year...I told her she needs to leave the country and have 20000 bht overstay fine ready to pay....she thought I was joking....

[kieran2698]

You could do one of these accelerated TEFL courses in only a few weeks, pass the relatively simple exam and voila you are qualified. The course will cost around 50,000. SDM

They seem to accept any certificate that says TEFL on it. The ones you are referring to, at that price are good ones, real ones, I know teachers who took courses that cost almost 1/10th that price and it would appear that they didn't learn a thing. They do however pass the work permit scrutiny.

Primary school teachers in Thailand need any degree but also take the exam that a lot of government workers have to take, a kind of proficiency test, not sure if this can be done in English though.

[baratrachael]

Being British does not guarantee that your accent or grammar are in any way good enough to model the language for young learners. The fact that you have not bothered to study for certification in your chosen career demonstrates that you are not really a teacher. You are casual day labourer and only deserve the same level of reward for your work as other members of Thai society. That is to say a very low wage and little security. Entering a classroom without the necessary skills is robbing the students of their time, enthusiasm and opportunity to have a real learning experience. Go back to university, get the needed skills and then begin the long had process of learning your trade. Good Luck

[steveolevi]

Primary school teachers in Thailand need any degree but also take the exam that a lot of government workers have to take, a kind of proficiency test, not sure if this can be done in English though.

The exam you mention is for Thais only no matter if you speak, read, and write Thai fluently.

[davejones76]

Teachers are not really appreciated for their efforts in Thailand despite a teacher degree or not. I know pretty damn good teachers. They al get sacked because of this leaving them in survival mode. Some of them choose to work for schools without the proper documents. As long as foreigners keep doing this, nothing will change. It should be a better solution for all the teachers without proper documents and schools not willing to support to refuse in large numbers so the schools get affected. Possibly with a blue or other colored flag in the front of the Ministry of Education? Looks nice though.

[gerry123]

so there you have it all the rules regs it seems to me a bit of a " gis a job mister i can do that " go away get legal and correctly trained /qualified

and then a good job will be easily obtained with all the trimmings

[atyclb]

Since there are knowledgeable people on this topic may I pose a question please?

What would the requirements to get a teaching work permit be for a native english language person with a doctorate degree in medical sciences, prior university level teaching experience in a G7 english speaking country?

Do they need to have TEFL ? etc etc . Thank you

[Maroon Watcher]

...c'mon guys/girls?

"I'm from America/Australia/Canada/Ireland/New Zealand/South Africa/UK"

just means N.E.S.

But increasingly worldwide advertised jobs are including:

"No descernible accent" - this would rule out some people from all the countries above...

including England, Scotland and Wales.

[Ombra]

Are you saying that you have a Ph.D. in medical sciences and that you want to teach EFL? Are you kidding us?

[Mario2008]

I think the Op might be interested in options like:

what if he doesn't start as a teacher but as a teaching assistant, will he still need a waiver of the licence if he is only a teaching assistant and not a teacher?

[atyclb]

Are you saying that you have a Ph.D. in medical sciences and that you want to teach EFL? Are you kidding us?

Is a question based on curiosity. To be honest it is extremely difficult to find a job in thailand as a foreigner even with the highest academic credentials. it is almost like there exists a fear to hire such people as it could show thais that there exists clever non thais.

[Neeranam]

I was just at Krusapa on Monday to enrol for the Thai Culture Course. If you have already taught at two schools and already finished the second year or tried to move on to a third school, this is what I learned:

• You can still get a work permit if
  • you have a non-B and
  • are enrolled in a Master's degree program at a university.

This will allow you to work for an extra two years, at only one school, without a teaching license. Hopefully you would have finished your master's the second year and then you will be eligible to take the exam.

• Make sure your degree is a M. Ed. If your degree is a M.A. teaching TEFL then
  • you can still take the Thai Culture Course if you haven't already
  • you will not be eligible to sit for the exam for the Thai teaching license
  • But you will still be able to teach legally with work permit for two years. After that, who knows how the rules may change.

That is what I was told. Hopefully others can verify this.

So you do a culture course, a M.Ed and still have to pass an exam! I was an English teacher for 13 years and when they told me to take a culture course I told them where to go. I'm amazed at the lengths people are willing go to for a 1000 pound a month job or less.

There is absolutely no solidarity with English teachers. Stand up and fight to this bullshit. They are making a fortune from teachers doing courses, taking exams etc.

Edited May 13, 2014 by Neeranam

[louse1953]

Coming from England qualifies you to be a tourist,thats it.

[bapak]

I have been asked to teach at my local school and I have told them I wont start without work permit, licence etc...I have a non o visa being married to a thai but immigration told me I must have a B visa only to be able to work..can you work legally on a non o visa ???...I would love to know , some people say yes others say no...I don't have a degree but I have a TEFL certificate ....I could of started work yesterday but iam hanging fire to see if the school will sort out any thing for me.......ps there was also a lady from Camaroon who was having an interview for the 2nd job at the school and when I asked her about her visa status...she showed me her passport, her tourist visa ran out on sept 13 th last year...I told her she needs to leave the country and have 20000 bht overstay fine ready to pay....she thought I was joking....

You can get a Work Permit if you have O based on marriage.

I have found that many Labour Department offices are unaware of this.

We employ 3 teachers in exactly the same O situation as you.

[belg]

look at this way, many thai teachers have a licence or degree

but if they teach language, you can hardly understand them

so is a native with no teaching skills better or worse, for the kids to be able to learn something usefull ???

[cocopops]

The consequences of working illegally or rather working without a work permit can vary to blind eye tactics (for a period anyway) to being thrown out the country with no return, a hefty fine or even jail. In some cases all three. How important is your piece of mind?

Out of interest, does anybody know if this has actually happened? A custodial sentence in Thailand for teaching without a work permit?

I'm sure there are probably provisions for it, but has it ever actually happened?

[Neeranam]

look at this way, many thai teachers have a licence or degree

but if they teach language, you can hardly understand them

so is a native with no teaching skills better or worse, for the kids to be able to learn something usefull ???

You don't have kids at a Thai school do you?

Some of the best teachers I've observed had no formal qualifications but great teaching skills.

It's not about learning in most schools. In fact, some I've been at have actually said they want to keep the kids ignorant, an old Chinese philosophy.

[Neeranam]

The consequences of working illegally or rather working without a work permit can vary to blind eye tactics (for a period anyway) to being thrown out the country with no return, a hefty fine or even jail. In some cases all three. How important is your piece of mind?

Out of interest, does anybody know if this has actually happened? A custodial sentence in Thailand for teaching without a work permit?

I'm sure there are probably provisions for it, but has it ever actually happened?

No, it hasn't happened. Not to an English teacher anyway. In 20 years here, I've known hundreds working without a WP and/or degree.

There have been a couple of instances where foreigners were deported for working without a degree but it's not that simple - they upset the wrong person. If that happens and you have no 'influence' yourself, it doesn't really matter what you've done or not done.

The way things work in this country are not like your own home.

There is always an option of paying a fine rather than going to jail.

[pacovl46]

> Elephantitus

Inflammation of the Elephant?

The term is elephantiasis and it's nothing to joke about. Wikipedia will tell you everything you need to know about it and the article features some 'nice' photographs, too, to make sure you're completely getting the idea.