US: Colorado boy accused of killing dad

[ClutchClark]

9 years ago there were 2,225 children in America serving life without parole.

This is a map showing all the countries in the World that sentence children to life in prison without parole.

Blacks are of course 10 times more likely to recieve the sentence than a white child.

That is an interesting statistic, what is it about that culture which makes them that much more prone to violence?

[ClutchClark]

Excuses ... excuses. The USA gun culture is a disgrace.

The gun was the father's responsibility. The gun should have been locked in a gun safe. I'm not speaking to punishment for the kid, just that it never should have been possible for it to happen.

I don't know of a single gun that has ever killed anyone...people kill people, whether it's a gun, a bat, a broken bottle, a car, poison...ALL of these require someone to inflect the death, NONE of these inanimate items has ever killed anyone.

What is your point? I have so often heard this point parroted by the NRA bandwagon but how does it relate to this thread?

[GentlemanJim]

9 years ago there were 2,225 children in America serving life without parole.

This is a map showing all the countries in the World that sentence children to life in prison without parole.

Blacks are of course 10 times more likely to recieve the sentence than a white child.

That is an interesting statistic, what is it about that culture which makes them that much more prone to violence?

Well what he actually says is that blacks are more likely to be given the sentence without parole. I do not think the 'culture' are more prone to violence. What we have is a group of people in society who face substantial poverty and they will do most things to try and get relief from that. If that means, drugs, crime etc then that is what they will do, and the children will follow suit. What has always amazed me about Thailand is that the poorest of people will always try and do something to make an honest living, even if they are 85 yrs old, wandering around restaurants and bars at night selling, fruit, rice, flowers, lottery tickets whatever. They all try.

In the UK, Europe, USA etc poor people cannot do that, they cant sell food or flowers or stuff they have made at home. They need a traders licence and bank account and VAT number and tax number, so what can they do to earn money for their families when there are no jobs and they cannot exercise any right to the spirit of free trade? Crime, crime crime is the only thing that pays.

In Thailand, poor kids learn to run food stalls till late at night, in the USA they learn to mug people or sell drugs, because they are not allowed to run food stalls. All quite simplistic i know, for what is a very complex social problem but I think you get the idea where I am coming from. Poor people, often black, are cornered, and there are no jobs. You don't see many beggars in Thailand, they all try to make a living by selling something, even reclaimed garbage. The poor in the West can't do that. So, the young poor, who are often black do their apprenticeships and invariably get caught doing crime at some point.

Each child who gets a life sentence without parole is worth $16 Million to the prisons for profit system! Boy, I bet they wish the cells were full of them. Easy to control, mould and manipulate. I wonder who lobbies the most for these type of sentence? Not hard to guess really. It is a shocking indictment on a nation to have this 'scar' and it is difficult for the US to lecture other countries on Human Rights. North Korea locks children up for life in work camps, I cant think of any others apart from the US. To be honest as a child I would rather take my chance in a gulag than to be locked in a small cell for 23 hours a day for the rest of my life (70 years?). Go check out youtube. There are of course some evil little sods who are a product of our society but I think most could be rehabilitated, and then there are some totally shocking OMG cases where not even an adult should be locked up for life, especially without parole, let alone a child. But hey this is a country that gave a woman life in prison for getting a 13 year old boy to touch her breast.

Edited May 13, 2014 by GentlemanJim

[Som wat]

Why not charge him as an adult. They know exactly what they are doing at that age !

Yup.

Nothing like locking up a 13 year old for life without parole, in the land of the free.

Hey, American exceptionalism! We have more people in prison that any country in the world. More than Stalin ever put int the Gulags. And on top of that the states have contracts with the private prisons guaranteeing they will keep the prisons full. Otherwise they would have to pay a financial penalty. I'm not kidding, they really do.

Two judges were convicted of sentencing young offenders to prison for cash payments. Made over a million each by sending kids to their mate's private prisons.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kids_for_cash_scandal

[ClutchClark]

Two judges were convicted of sentencing young offenders to prison for cash payments. Made over a million each by sending kids to their mate's private prisons.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kids_for_cash_scandal

The American " everything for profit" motive that has resulted in the privatization of many historically public run institutions has been a terrible trend since these places and services now serve the shareholder rather than the public interet. No doubt there was a conflict of interest in the case of these judges; however, these young offenders that appeared before the bench were still guilty of breaking laws.

Have you come across any information of how many of these offenders, upon being retried, were found not guilty at the retrials? Or had their sentences reduced?

Edited May 13, 2014 by ClutchClark

[GentlemanJim]

Why not charge him as an adult. They know exactly what they are doing at that age !

Yup.

Nothing like locking up a 13 year old for life without parole, in the land of the free.

Hey, American exceptionalism! We have more people in prison that any country in the world. More than Stalin ever put int the Gulags. And on top of that the states have contracts with the private prisons guaranteeing they will keep the prisons full. Otherwise they would have to pay a financial penalty. I'm not kidding, they really do.

Two judges were convicted of sentencing young offenders to prison for cash payments. Made over a million each by sending kids to their mate's private prisons.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kids_for_cash_scandal

That is a truly terrifying report on Wiki. Remember, that is just two judges, in one county. God knows what has happened across the country!

[ClutchClark]

9 years ago there were 2,225 children in America serving life without parole.

This is a map showing all the countries in the World that sentence children to life in prison without parole.

Blacks are of course 10 times more likely to recieve the sentence than a white child.

That is an interesting statistic, what is it about that culture which makes them that much more prone to violence?

Well what he actually says is that blacks are more likely to be given the sentence without parole. I do not think the 'culture' are more prone to violence. What we have is a group of people in society who face substantial poverty and they will do most things to try and get relief from that. If that means, drugs, crime etc then that is what they will do, and the children will follow suit. What has always amazed me about Thailand is that the poorest of people will always try and do something to make an honest living, even if they are 85 yrs old, wandering around restaurants and bars at night selling, fruit, rice, flowers, lottery tickets whatever. They all try.

In the UK, Europe, USA etc poor people cannot do that, they cant sell food or flowers or stuff they have made at home. They need a traders licence and bank account and VAT number and tax number, so what can they do to earn money for their families when there are no jobs and they cannot exercise any right to the spirit of free trade? Crime, crime crime is the only thing that pays.

In Thailand, poor kids learn to run food stalls till late at night, in the USA they learn to mug people or sell drugs, because they are not allowed to run food stalls. All quite simplistic i know, for what is a very complex social problem but I think you get the idea where I am coming from. Poor people, often black, are cornered, and there are no jobs. You don't see many beggars in Thailand, they all try to make a living by selling something, even reclaimed garbage. The poor in the West can't do that. So, the young poor, who are often black do their apprenticeships and invariably get caught doing crime at some point.

Each child who gets a life sentence without parole is worth $16 Million to the prisons for profit system! Boy, I bet they wish the cells were full of them. Easy to control, mould and manipulate. I wonder who lobbies the most for these type of sentence? Not hard to guess really. It is a shocking indictment on a nation to have this 'scar' and it is difficult for the US to lecture other countries on Human Rights. North Korea locks children up for life in work camps, I cant think of any others apart from the US. To be honest as a child I would rather take my chance in a gulag than to be locked in a small cell for 23 hours a day for the rest of my life (70 years?). Go check out youtube. There are of course some evil little sods who are a product of our society but I think most could be rehabilitated, and then there are some totally shocking OMG cases where not even an adult should be locked up for life, especially without parole, let alone a child. But hey this is a country that gave a woman life in prison for getting a 13 year old boy to touch her breast.

No doubt its a very complex issue but I am not sure how anyone can immediately exclude culture .

I always wonder how Mexican immigrants who arrived in the US with no money and no English language skills have managed to work their way into being productive members of society in a single generation yet the African-American community still struggles after several generations. Is it the result of a welfare mentality? Is it the result of a victimization mentality? Is it the result of a culture more prone to violence? It is very taboo to explore the last question but that makes it no less a possibility.

Do you ever watch movies targeted towards AA's? They typically revolve around infidelity and broken homes and aggressive attitudes. Do you listen to the music popular in this culture? It is exploitive and suggestive and celebratory of violence.

One can offers excuses and become an apologist for this but they can't deny its prevalence and popularity.

But we are off-topic. At hand, there is a 13-year old delinquent who has just destroyed his future and his father's future and will have permanent psychological effects on any siblings (none mentioned). Very difficult to determine any extenuating circumstances that might have existed from a brief press release. Only that the judicial system is left to determine what steps at rehabilitation are possible. A 13-year old life seems very young to give up on. At the same time, this is a very calculated and cold-blooded murder.

[NeverSure]

The gun was the father's responsibility. The gun should have been locked in a gun safe. I'm not speaking to punishment for the kid, just that it never should have been possible for it to happen.

Excuses ... excuses. The USA gun culture is a disgrace.

It was absolutely illegal for that minor to have possession of a loaded gun unless under the supervision of an adult. LINK

If the father was a responsible person, that gun would have been locked in a safe.

Of course the kid should be severely dealt with, but it could have been avoided.

[wandasloan]

Thanks. Just like you I am a bit shaken and saddened by this event; maybe my Colorado links. As you say, there is nothing that will make up for that moment of ... whatever that took one life completely, ruined another and no doubt has shaken their very tiny and tight community much more than me.

It was absolutely illegal for that minor to have possession of a loaded gun unless under the supervision of an adult. LINK

Your link says EXACTLY the opposite, and your link is pretty much correct. The teenager lived alone with his father, in a home. He was specifically (according to your link) permitted to have and to use a loaded gun under those circumstances. In no manner was any of that part of it illegal. On that point, your link is correct.

If the father was a responsible person, that gun would have been locked in a safe.

Of course the kid should be severely dealt with, but it could have been avoided.

If the hare did not stop for a sleep, the tortoise would not have won the race. Despite "if", it did.

Almost all rifles in Colorado homes are not in a gun safe. Your link explains why in a fairly understandable manner, actually.

.