Obtaining Thai Passport for a Child in Australia?

[SamHuaHin]

I am Australian and recently seperated from my Thai Partner, we have a 5yo Son who was born in Australia and has Australian Passport and Nationality.

What I am wanting to know is:

1. Can his Mother apply for and be granted a Thai passport for our son with out my involvement or consent?

2. Can this be done from a foreign country ie. Australia or does it have to be done in person in Thailand?

I ask as I am concerned she may be planning to do this and try to take him to Thailand, and while my Lawyer advises this is illegal, it doesnt stop her from doing it, unless I request via COurts a block by adding him to the AFP Watch List.
I am also advised that f this does happen then Australia can have him brought back here by way of the Hague Convention, of which Thailand is a full member, but I expect it could take some time.

Any information of Q 1 and 2 above appreciated.

[bobrussell]

If you genuinely fear this might happen I would suggest you get immediate legal advice. If the system resembles the UK one there should be a rapid process along the lines of an injunction preventing a child leaving the country. Who has the birth certificate?

Looks as if a broadly similar system operates in Australia:

http://www.legalaid.wa.gov.au/InformationAboutTheLaw/FamilyRelationshipsChildren/ChildrenTravelRelocation/Pages/AbductionOfChildren.aspx

My sister-in-law went through the family courts in the UK to protect her daughter so I am broadly aware of how it works here but the first priority is to keep the child in the country. The rest, I suspect, will be dealt with via the courts.

As far as I am aware Thailand has only ratified certain parts of the Hague Convention.

Australia seems pretty well set up for this:

https://www.passports.gov.au/Web/ChildAlert.aspx

Get proper legal advice!

Edited May 13, 2014 by bobrussell

[David48]

Have a look at this from the Australian Government (click the link) ... Brochure Childen Parental Consent

Key points

• We normally require the written consent of every person who has parental responsibility before a passport can be issued to a child
• This is to protect children from abduction and safeguard the rights of all people who have parental responsibility

[Tonyguy]

I was in the same situation as you. St that time Thailand was not a party to The Hague Convention. Even if it is now once a child is in Thailand they can be easily hidden and finding them, going through legal process with little chance of success is all too late. I had the child placed on the AFP watch list which will prevent a departure from Australia. It's a simple process and removes the worry do you can work through the difficult process of separation and parenting orders.

[SamHuaHin]

Thanks for all the good advise, appreciated.

I have had legal advise and am aware of the Initiating Orders Kit which is used to request Orders via the courts, including the Airport Watch List, and am considering doing this soon.

I have already added him to the Child Alert via DFF which stops a passport being issued:
https://www.passports.gov.au/Web/ChildAlert.aspx

But it doesnt stop a foreign passport being used, this my Q re possibility of her getting him a Thai Passport.

I have not yet filed for Airport Watch List yet as it will also stop me from taking him overseas to see his Grandfather and extended family in Italy, somehting thats planned for next year,
and I would need to go back to the Courts to ask for it to be lifted, and apparently the Courts do not like doing this and would be unlikely to put it back on again if I had it lifted,
as far as they are concerned it needs to be either ON or OFF, and I understand this as they have better things to do than change this order all the time.

The reason I am keen to know if a Thai Passport can be issued from Australia is that I found out the ex flew to Sydney to the Thai COnsultate last week, so something is going on.

If she cant get him a Thai Passport then I am happy to leave orders as they are, but if she can, then I will urgently seek a Airport Watch List order.

Hope this clarifies my position.

Does anyone know if she can get him a Thai Passport form here, or does she need to go back to Thailad to do it?

Thanks

[SamHuaHin]

Seems most of my Q are answered here:
http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/660903-thai-passport-for-an-australian-born-child/

Looks like she can get the Passport for him from here, so I think I will go ahead with Airport Watch List.
I also just learned that in Thailand I have absoutely no rights as Father as we were not married, as stated by MArio2008 a few months ago:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/711467-can-a-child-born-outside-of-marriage-have-the-fathers-surname/
"Your brothers problem is that he is not the legal father of the child. To become that he would indeed need to marry the mother, but there are two other options to become the legal father.

1. both mother and child confirm that he is the father at the amphur (child must be around 7 years old to do so).

2. go to court and asked to be recognised as the legal father of the child. This can take a few months

Also while Thailand has ratified the relevent section 26 of the Hague Convention
http://www.hcch.net/index_en.php?act=states.details&sid=130

They are not a full Member, and having lived in Thailand for many years I have absolutely no faith whatsoever in the legal system there and so would not want to depend on them supporting their ratified obligations in a reasonable timeframe or at all.

So I will proceed with the Initiaiting Orders as per the DIY kit here:
http://www.familylawcourts.gov.au/wps/wcm/connect/FLC/Home/Forms/Do-it-yourself+kits/Initiating+Application+Kit+%28do+it+yourself+kit%29

Had anyone been down this Initiating Orders path before?

[Tonyguy]

I has orders done about 4 years ago and it was a quick process to get them. Last year I had them removed but that was a complex process. The AFP would only remove them after I produced a parenting order on the removal approved in the local court. They took the view that the original order which included an agreement to lift the AFP order had a slight ambiguity to it and their legal section refused to lift the order without further court instructions. Lesson is that it's quick and easy to get and difficult and time consuming to hae lifted. Like you I had to choose whether I wanted the certainty of an AFP prohibition order or the option of taking my daughter on an overseas holiday, I chose the order. Other complexity I that when travelling as a single parent with a child countries seek proof you have the mothers permission. I carried the custody orders with me. Hope this helps mate.

[samran]

Thai passports need both parents to be present at the application or if one parent can't go, a power of attorney signed.

[SamHuaHin]

I has orders done about 4 years ago and it was a quick process to get them. Last year I had them removed but that was a complex process. The AFP would only remove them after I produced a parenting order on the removal approved in the local court. They took the view that the original order which included an agreement to lift the AFP order had a slight ambiguity to it and their legal section refused to lift the order without further court instructions. Lesson is that it's quick and easy to get and difficult and time consuming to hae lifted. Like you I had to choose whether I wanted the certainty of an AFP prohibition order or the option of taking my daughter on an overseas holiday, I chose the order. Other complexity I that when travelling as a single parent with a child countries seek proof you have the mothers permission. I carried the custody orders with me. Hope this helps mate.

I had a call back from the Thai Embassy in Sydney today, they assured me that

- both parents need to be present at the embassy for a new passport application for a child

or

if one parent shows they need to show Court Orders showing full custody

also

- that it cannot be applied for via mail to Thailand

That said, I am thinking now maybe I dont need to put the AFP Watch in place?

Thoughts?

[krisb]

Why not covet all bases?

[SamHuaHin]

Yes its the safest options, but its not easy to have this restriction lifted, a lot more than having it put on, and the court does not like this to happen, and will be unlikely to reinstate it again.

Thats why.

[Tonyguy]

A big part of the consideration is the current state of trust and relationship with your ex partner. I trust exists or can be built on it may be prudent to hold off the orders. The application of orders is an emotional issue and is interpreted that hae no trust and a potential loss of face for the mother. Best outcome is to sort a workable arrangement with the mother and have it socented in formal orders including that the child will not be issued with a Thai passport and will only travel on an Australian passport. Use of the AFP orders causes some conflict which does not help in settling parenting orders and financial settlements in a relationship breakdown. AFP orders can always be sought at short at short notice as a means of last resort .